Rossi 45 Colt or .454 Casull

[huntersdog]

Which would you pick and why? The Rossi 45 Colt or .454 Casull? They both, seem like great carbines. The .454, gives you the option of the extra horsepower, when needed.

[countryroads]

I have two Rossi 92s in 45 Colt. I have the Octagonal case hardened and the round barreled blued. You can load the 45 colt from low recoil plinkers up to something that will hurt your shoulder. 45 Colt is more than adequate for deer, and probably for something bigger, although there is nothing bigger here in WV.

[ddixie884]

Will the .454 take a longer max OAL than the colt? Just wonderin..........

[happie2shoot]

I have a 16'' and a 20'' SS in 454 and 4 revolvers to go
with them, the ones in 454 are tougher , I would not buy
one in 45 colt.

[rondog]

I wouldn't buy one in .454 Casull, or a revolver either. Punishing recoil ain't my thing, and I don't hunt bears.

[happie2shoot]

The one in 454 will shoot 45 colt.

[happie2shoot]

One of my best loads in the 454 is 8gr bullseye with a 250 rnfp,
goes 1025 in a 7.5'' revolver and 1250fps in the 20''.

[RobS]

I have both and of the two the 454 chamber is much closer to spec where as the 45 Colt is rather large and really works brass hard due to the larger chamber. The 45 Colt Rossi is my wife's lever so it doesn't see much more than mouse fart loads so with cut down 454 Casull brass they don't fill the chamber as much when fired however there is more gas blow by etc. I don't know how the current production Rossi's are as it's been quite some time since I purchased mine but the 454 Casull just had tighter specs probably due to the higher pressure associated with the cartridge.

I hardly ever load 454 Casull Max levels but I do often times shoot loads that are in the 40-45K area and then can also load down to the mouse fart loads. I think if I were to do it all over I would go with another 454 lever over the 45 Colt.

[w5pv]

I would go with 454 as you can shoot either in it with good results.

[runfiverun]

I thought I wanted a 454 casull but ended up with 3 in 45 colt.
I figured if I really needed more than the 45 colt I needed a bunch more and just bought a 45/70,


I can't hit a deer with 100% reliability past 150yds or so with open sights anyway, but that extra energy is great if you need to really plow a boolit into the dirt.

[hornady308]

I have the 24" in 45 Colt. The chamber is so large that I can easily seat a round with a .457 bullet, yet I get .4515 when slugging the barrel. I've yet to find a truly accurate load using cast bullets. If I had it to do over again, I'd get the 454 and just use 45 Colt brass (although I HATE the looks of the recoil pad on the 454 model).

[Desertbuck]

The 45 colt is a much more versatile cartridge in my opinion. I never have but I do know with a 92 Rossi you can load them pretty stout, but you can also load them way down.
The fact that the cartridge itself can handle black power or smokeless powder and with little effort you can find a winner load combination is the major selling point for me. And being able to say to your buddies its a 45 colt! Opposed to its a 454 Casull just sounds better. :-)

[robertbank]

Man a 454 would be down right hurtful. I have a 44Mag Rossi and had the curved butt plated removed and a decent recoil pad installed. I cannot imagine how hurtful a 454 would be in the light 92 carbine.

Take Care

Bob

[Lonegun1894]

I had the same option and went with the .45 Colt--twice. When you consider what the .45 Colt can do in a strong action (such as the '92), why would you choose to deal with the extra long chamber and bullet jump, and the less common brass that you're stuck with when using the .454? Besides, all the .454 really is I just a toy for those guys who claim that it is "almost a .45-70". Well, for that type, I have a .45-70 that I can load light when I want to step down to .454 Cassull performance, or I can use the .45 Colt for when I don't need that kind of power.

[tradbear55]

The one in 454 will shoot 45 colt.

Exactly why I would buy the 454 casull.

[Virginia John]

countryroads, I don't know where in WV you live or hunt but believe me there are things to hunt in WV larger than deer. They are big black and furry and a 454 casull or .45LC are nice to have on those occasions. My personal preference is the .45LC. I like to have both the pistol and revolver in the same caliber and the casull is just too big for me.

[snaketail]

Get the .454. Use 45 Colt for most things and .454s for things that need more thump. I sold mine and wish I hadn't. BTW - Rossis are .454 bore - if you load .452 boolits you'll get leading and poor accuracy. Go with .454 boolits. I won a big match in Texas with 255gr boolits over 20gr of 4227.

Makes a great hog gun too.

[northmn]

I have a 357 Rossi which has nothing to do with this discussion except that I also hand load and prefer the 357 cases even with lighter small game loads. While I tend to lean towards most arguments that if you want 45-70 performance get a 45-70 I also do not like seeing the 45 Colt loaded as hot as some load it as those cartridges could find their way into use by a pistol like a peacemaker that is not intended for that use and would probably shake my smaller framed Ruger loose. For general use not associated with SAA matches etc the 454 would make sense as a good choice if one hand loads. Just use 454 brass and load it like you want it. Factory loads might hurt.

DP

[osteodoc08]

454 Casull. You can always use 45 colt loads or even throttle back the 454 loads if needed. You can't throttle up the 45 colt loads to 454 Casull max levels and be safe.

Its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[Speedo66]

There seems to be quite a price differential on several sales sites between the .454 and the .45 Rossi's. Same for the ammo. If I had no use for a .454, I wouldn't spend the extra money for something I didn't need. Put the additional cash into something you can actually use, like more .45 ammo.

[mart]

It's true you cannot load the 45 Colt to 454 performance except in the strongest of firearms such as the 5 shot Linebaughs. However, when run in the 30,000 psi range the 45 Colt is certainly no slouch. I have both a Rossi 45 Colt, 20" round barrel, and a Ruger Redhawk 4" 45 Colt. I run the same load in both, a 300 grain WFN from an Accurate Molds block over 23 grains of H110, It runs 1175 out of the Ruger and 1600 from the Rossi. Both guns like the load and cast from 50/50 WW/lino I've no doubt, though I've never had to try, they'll penetrate from one end of a bear to the other. The Rossi is so much easier to pack than my Marlin 1895, especially when I'm making multiple trips packing meat. On another note the only handgun that ever hurt me, and I'm no stranger to big bore handguns, was a Freedom Arms 454. One cylinder full and I was flinching so bad I had to go back to a 22 and work my way up to big bores and heavy loads over the course of 6 months. I find the 454 recoil to be fast, sharp and objectionable. I'll stick with my 45 Colt.

[bluelund79]

I'd go with the 454 because you can shoot both cartridges. However, it doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun with full power 454 loads. I have the Rossi carbine in 44mag, and that curved butt plate leaves a nice mark with factory type loads.

[Mgderf]

There seems to be quite a price differential on several sales sites between the .454 and the .45 Rossi's. Same for the ammo. If I had no use for a .454, I wouldn't spend the extra money for something I didn't need. Put the additional cash into something you can actually use, like more .45 ammo.'

I picked up my M92 in .454 Casull because it fell into my lap.
My local FFL knew I have a penchant for the big boomers, so as soon as it came in the shop he called me.
I got it used, but in 95%+ condition, and I only paid $300 for it.

That was 2 years ago.
It has since taken 4 whitetail. Two with .454 Casull, and two with very hot loaded .45Colt.
I also have a Taurus Raging Bull in .454 Casull. It has an 8-3/8" ported barrel with a full lug.
There's enough weight there to mitigate the recoil left after the porting does it's job.

I like the .454 Casull, and I would do it again.

[robertbank]

I'd go with the 454 because you can shoot both cartridges. However, it doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun with full power 454 loads. I have the Rossi carbine in 44mag, and that curved butt plate leaves a nice mark with factory type loads.

I had my gunsmith cut the butt square and add a recoil pad and the gun became shooter. Someone on this site suggested I [put the curve butt plate pn my bicep as opposed to my shoulder. The bruise went from my shoulder to my bicep. That is the only gun I ever shot that was instantly painful.

Take Care

Bob

[Ed Barrett]

I've had 92 clone 454's. The first I took hog hunting with a couple of friends after seeing what it did the went into a bidding war to buy it. So I only owned it for 6 months. Found another one and I won't give this one up. It is more accurate than the .45's I've seen. I can load it to 45 black powder levels and below, I can also load it to the top end with 395 grain cast and Lil' gun. I always use 454 cases for 45 level loads and 454 loads. My vote is 454.

[454PB]

As of my vote, it's a tie. I only bought a .454 rifle because I already owned 3 revolvers in that caliber.

I've done extended sessions (50 rounds) of shooting with full tilt 330 grain gas checked loads. Yeah, the shoulder gets a little tender, but nothing like it does with the same number of rounds through my 45/70 guide gun.

[sthwestvictoria]

I have to state I have not shot either however is there any truth to the idea that shooting shorter brass such as 38 special in 357 or 45colt in 454 creates a "blast ring" in front of the shorter cartridge that can cause problems with chambering the longer cartridge?

[Mohillbilly]

I have a Freedom Arms 454 , bought the 454 Rossi . I intend to shoot both 45 Colt AND 454 Casull in the Rossi. yes the chamber needs to be clean to shoot 454 . I use an old 460 case with a saw tooth edge to ream the chamber clean in the field . I put up my loads in longer brass to cut down cleaning chores . All that said my 94 winchester is for 45 Colt , but is blue , I will shoot it little and carry my stainless Rossi and use it most . The Rossi is replaceable .

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I also have two Rossi's both in 45 Colt. If I need more caliber .45 power I get out the 45-70 and never have to wonder if my shoulder will stay attached and if the carbine will stay together.
I did buy a BFR 454 so I could shoot some "stout" caliber 45 loads and not have to wonder about a Ruger or Dan Wesson flying apart.
I think the old saying "use enough gun" relates not just to the case inserted but also into what it is inserted. The caliber .454 Rossi is a fine stout carbine made of good materials. But I think it is taken to the extreme of safety with max loads. Degradation of materials is ever present with every shot. Anyone know for sure when that fine line will get crossed? We all know the Winchester "Toggle " lock up had limitations. Mr. John Browning vastly improved the lock up. I wonder what his thoughts would be today upon viewing our quest for more power in light weight carbines.
I used to drag race. Ever watch a 11-1 compression 327 piston exit the block through the head on a dark evening. Pretty but expensive. That engine never showed any signs of getting "over the limit" of material overload. It just let loose.
Mike in Peru
Mike in Peru

[seaboltm]

I am paranoid. I don't trust a 92 action for sustained fire with 454. 45 Colt is plenty. As has been stated in other threads, for heavy pistol bullets any velocity over 900 fps is simply to flatten the trajectory curve. 45 Colt loaded to its true potential is more than enough, plus I trust the 92 Rossi to hold Ruger type 45 Colt loads.

[bearcove]

I am paranoid. I don't trust a 92 action for sustained fire with 454. 45 Colt is plenty. As has been stated in other threads, for heavy pistol bullets any velocity over 900 fps is simply to flatten the trajectory curve. 45 Colt loaded to its true potential is more than enough, plus I trust the 92 Rossi to hold Ruger type 45 Colt loads.

The rossi will take full power loads in 454. 45 colt is plenty some times.

The idea that you never need more than 900 fps is funny. I'd much rather run 300 grs at about 1800fps when I walk around in bear country. My SS 454 rossi is my boat gun for fishing in alaska. I guess if all you run into is a coyote or small deer you don't need it. My choice is a rossi in 454 max loads that are reliable, 300+grs. BUT, I also load a bunch of 260 gr swc to 850fps for my son to shoot, they are fun and will do for a whitetail.

[Gunnut 45/454]

I have the Puma 454, and yes heavy loads will get your attention. The rifle only weighs 5 lbs- fully loaded with 10 heavy loads its a little over 6.5 lbs. But it's a quick pointing carbine for fast shots when needed. There isn't anything I would feel under gunned for anywhere in the world with that rifle . Nothing! Also have a Win '94 in 45 LC. I broke it with Ruger only loads so I have to stay 1-1.5 grs below max Ruger only loads. Still plenty of punch with 300 gr at 1750 ish fps! But no where near the 1998 fps in 454 with the same bullet! Or the 2300 fps with 240 gr XTP's! If you want something stopped NOW get the 454 Casull.

[rbuck351]

I bought the Puma in 454 because I found a used one in 100% condition for $370. Yeah, it does kick some shooting 317gr boolits at 1950 fps but it does come with a decent butt pad. I load a 260gr boolit at about 1200 fps for the wife. She likes it a lot. Gunnut pretty much covered why I like it.

[pmer]

I have a Rossi 45 Colt and its chamber is big too. I put a rear site from a Contender on and a taller front site to match. So it has easy windage and elevation adjustments.

The strangest shot for me on a whitetail was with this rifle and a 300 grain 1600 fps RNFP load. He was going right but must've veered left at the shot. It hit the right shoulder socket and went out through a jugular at the base of his neck. With out any damage in its rib cage it took off favouring that limb. He bled out and ran less than 150 yards. He is a 11 pointer on my wall now and I often wonder how lucky I was and how thin the line can be for "pass/fail".

[badbob454]

454 my choice and load it down if recoil is too much ..

[dogmower]

I have a rossi in 454 and a ruger super redhawk in the same caliber. like the others here mentioned, if you are recoil shy, just load the 454 down. I shoot a 300 grain cast over aa#9 at about 1600 fps in the rifle. good load, accurate, and recoil is tolerable. I shoot the same load out of the pistol and it's a handful, but still not too bad.

[CLAYPOOL]

.454 without a doubt Loud down or up.

[BAGTIC]

No question a +P 45 Colt. Cheaper and more available brass and bullets. It is suitable for any game for with a pistol caliber lever action carbine is appropriate. The Casull really doesn't significantly increase effective range and at close range any game in North America won't notice the difference. Sometimes enough is enough. OTOH some people's egos occasionally need massaging.

[BAGTIC]

For bullet caster trim the .45 Colt back a little and take advantage of the extra length to use a long ogive bullet. A little increase in ogive length will yield about as much energy increase at longer ranges as the .454 and will do it at less recoil.

[Agrotom]

I to have a Puma in .454 and it super accurate and shoots either cartridge with amazing consistency...

[bearcove]

No question a +P 45 Colt. Cheaper and more available brass and bullets. It is suitable for any game for with a pistol caliber lever action carbine is appropriate. The Casull really doesn't significantly increase effective range and at close range any game in North America won't notice the difference. Sometimes enough is enough. OTOH some people's egos occasionally need massaging.

Sometimes some people want more for a reason. No need to be condescending just because you only need to shoot 125 lb deer. The 454 carbine is a very good choice for bear defense up north. I am not alone in this choice. There are several threads on heavy boolet loads for the rossi out there. Come fishing coastal AK and tell me what you want to carry while walking around in bear country. A good gun anywhere there are grizzly. I like my SS Rossi cause it is powerful enough to stop a bear, is light to carry, holds 10 rds so I don't have to carry ammo elsewhere, just load and go, and most important I don't care if it gets banged up in the boat or on the beach cause it not a beautiful gun like my marlin 1895 so it its there if I want or need it.

[historicfirearms]

Bearcove is spot on with his evaluation. I have a 16" stainless 454 and got it for that exact reason. I also have a Marlin 45-70 guide gun but don't use it much since I got the 454. The Marlin is a little heavier and bulkier than the Rossi and that makes a difference at the end of the day.

[rosewood]

.454

I bought mine under the name of Puma probably 12 years ago for cowboy action shooting as well as hunting. It came with a rubber recoil pad. Another thing I love about it is it has a removable feed tube, like the .22s. You can load and unload the gun from the threaded end feed tube as well as load from the load gate. This is a big improvement over having to unload from the side gate or cycle to empty the gun. It is my understanding, the .454 was the only one they made with the feed tube feature. Mine is a 20" bbl.

Not to mention it is dang near bullet proof. It is by far my favorite lever gun. It may even be my favorite firearm in my stable.

Rosewood

[rosewood]

Here is a review of the Puma 454. This is the article that really pushed me to buy one.
http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm

[Snyd]

454 Puma 20inch Stainless with HiViz sights for me here in Interior Alaska. Shoots everything from 200gr 45 Colt plinkers to 425gr 454 heavies very well. I was just packin mine on a day hike last week with the wifey. Came across big griz tracks in the trail. Felt good to have 10 thumpers in the tube of the handy little carbine. Here's a dual gun load I developed. 454 brass trimmed to allow this wfn to cycle in the lever gun. 47yds... This 355wfn at 1600 will do the job nicely.

http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w505/pbsnyd/targets/454Snyd_03.jpg

rcbs 405-fn .458 sized down. With this alloy dropped 422gr. Not too bad. This is actually a pretty mild load. I could go hotter but this should go through griz or moose end to end.

http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w505/pbsnyd/targets/422Puma_01.jpg

[rosewood]

Snyd, that was the one I really wanted, but since hi-viz was not allowed in cowboy shooting, I went with regular irons and stuck with blue.

[bearcove]

Just like mine. I have a 355gr mountain mold that goes about 365 GC'd and lubed. Its WFN and should do for anything that walks North America.

[pricedo]

I have an older blue version Amadeo Rossi M92 carbine (20" bbl) in 454 Casull that doesn't have any of the lawyer safety stuff (no bolt safety or hammer lock).
The 454 version has the much stronger double threaded magazine tube configuration that features an outer tube shell that threads into the receiver and allows for "Henry style" loading and unloading from a slot in the bottom of the magazine tube as an alternative to the conventional loading from a gate in the side of the receiver.
Early Rossi 92s in 454 Casull didn't have the double threaded magazine tube configuration and the magazine tubes became detached and fell off due to the recoil of maximum 454 casull rounds.

[rintinglen]

I suppose if money is no object, and you're sure you'll never find your rifle in the truck and the ammo on the bench 500 miles from home, the .454 might make sense. But I prefer the 45 Colt, having shot my way past the point where getting pounded by a big gun passes for fun. Were there a need, I could load my 45 Colt up into Low 45-70 country, but I have a 45-70. If I need to whack something big and furry hard up close, I'll use that.
The 45 Colts go for a couple of c-notes less here abouts, ammo is much more widely available, and the only grizzlies here in Southern California are on the flag. I vote 45 Colt.

[huntersdog]

Starting to see a trend where the 454 Casull sure is picking up steam.

[Snyd]

I suppose if money is no object, and you're sure you'll never find your rifle in the truck and the ammo on the bench 500 miles from home, the .454 might make sense. But I prefer the 45 Colt, having shot my way past the point where getting pounded by a big gun passes for fun. Were there a need, I could load my 45 Colt up into Low 45-70 country, but I have a 45-70. If I need to whack something big and furry hard up close, I'll use that.
The 45 Colts go for a couple of c-notes less here abouts, ammo is much more widely available, and the only grizzlies here in Southern California are on the flag. I vote 45 Colt.

??? The part about ammo makes no sense. The 454 shoots any 45 colt ammo out there AND any 454 ammo. And why would a guy leave his ammo 500 miles away? Low 45-70? Do you have a 425-435 grain 45 Colt load? Are the 45 Colt Rossi's even good for 5 shot 45 Colt (50,000psi) loads? Or are they maxed out with cowboy loads?

[Lonegun1894]

The 1892 action is known to be strong enough to handle 60K CUP loads, based on what I have read. Now I don't know how extensive the testing was with those kinds of loads, or how many rounds were fired. I know my Rossi is good with "Ruger-only" .45 Colt loads with 270gr RCBS SAA boolits, but I have a .45-70 and use either a 330gr Gould HP or a RCBS 405gr that casts at 420 grs for when I think I may need more power. Now, I don't really think more than .45 Colt is needed, but it's nice to have options.

[luvtn]

I'd go with the 454 because you can shoot both cartridges. However, it doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun with full power 454 loads. I have the Rossi carbine in 44mag, and that curved butt plate leaves a nice mark with factory type loads.
I too would go with the .454 for the same reasons. The only gun to bruise my shoulder was a .44mag Rossi 92. That dang curved metal butt plate hurts!
luvtn

[robertbank]

??? The part about ammo makes no sense. The 454 shoots any 45 colt ammo out there AND any 454 ammo. And why would a guy leave his ammo 500 miles away? Low 45-70? Do you have a 425-435 grain 45 Colt load? Are the 45 Colt Rossi's even good for 5 shot 45 Colt (50,000psi) loads? Or are they maxed out with cowboy loads?

Do you think Rossi buys barrel blanks made from different steel for individual calibers or would it seem to make more sense to just buy the blanks for all the calibers and ream out the chambers as required? I little common sense would say the blanks are all the same and the chambers are the only variance. I am not sure what the 454 would be required to do in the Lower 48 that the 45Colt won't do. The one reason I might be enticed to the 454 is the rifle comes with a recoil pad attached. Those curved butt steel butt plates were a carry over from the flint lock era. We have progressed over the past 130+ years and installing a flat recoil pad on any of the "4" shooters makes a lot of sense. Bruising ones shoulder need not be an occupational hazard.

Take Care

Bob
ps The 1973 is the gun to have in Cowboy Action not the '92. Uberti makes one that would make Winchester envious.

[bearcove]

The barrel is not the weak part. And I'm not sure what common sense has to do with it.

The actions for the 454 and 480 had different parts and heat treat to take the pressure. Thats what I have read about the subject. If you try to load a 45 Colt rossi to 60k cup make sure your will is up to date and life insurance paid up. You might end up eating the bolt, but its a free country........

[tygar]

I could come up with a bunch of reasons but it's like a 44mag. You can shoot 44 spl if you want, but if you need the mag, its there.

Same with the 454. Can always use LCs, but HAVE the 454 for the TRex's. !! Plus it has the sissy pad!

Actually was shooting mine today with Ruger & Taurus 454s working up a rifle/pistol combo loads. Weights from 250-325. Light to hot, the 92 was easy shooting, can't say that for the heavy hot loads in the revolvers lol.

[robertbank]

The barrel is not the weak part. And I'm not sure what common sense has to do with it.

The actions for the 454 and 480 had different parts and heat treat to take the pressure. Thats what I have read about the subject. If you try to load a 45 Colt rossi to 60k cup make sure your will is up to date and life insurance paid up. You might end up eating the bolt, but its a free country........

Who here has suggested loading the 45Colt to 60K cup and more importantly how would you know if you did? Kinda common sense. We know the barrel is not the weakest part, read Snyd (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?8398-Snyd) comment above.

Take Care

Bob

[bearcove]

The 1892 action is known to be strong enough to handle 60K CUP loads, based on what I have read. Now I don't know how extensive the testing was with those kinds of loads, or how many rounds were fired. I know my Rossi is good with "Ruger-only" .45 Colt loads with 270gr RCBS SAA boolits, but I have a .45-70 and use either a 330gr Gould HP or a RCBS 405gr that casts at 420 grs for when I think I may need more power. Now, I don't really think more than .45 Colt is needed, but it's nice to have options.

Implied

[bearcove]

Do you think Rossi buys barrel blanks made from different steel for individual calibers or would it seem to make more sense to just buy the blanks for all the calibers and ream out the chambers as required? I little common sense would say the blanks are all the same and the chambers are the only variance.
And here

[bearcove]

Not being hostile about this but there are alot of ignorant people out there and some of these coments are misleading.

The 1892 is a weak action that is rear locking. Original Winchesters where chambered in cartridges like 44-40. LOW pressure, They were rechambered to 44mag when it became popular and it destroyed the rifles cause they could not take the pressure. Worked for a while but the action could not take 44mag pressure. Reproductions were designed to take mag pistol pressure. ALA the Rossi. They took it a step farther and redesigned it again to handle the 454. This does not make all 1892 design rifles capable of doing it.
Some pressures given as max
44-40 13k cup saami for all, lyman for weak actions like 1873, 22k cup strong actions in lyman like 1892,
44mag 40k cup
454casull 55k cup max load data hornady, 65k PSI saami spec

A broad range of pressures this design has been used for means read the stamp on the barrel, load for that.

[robertbank]

+1

Bob

[NavyVet1959]

countryroads, I don't know where in WV you live or hunt but believe me there are things to hunt in WV larger than deer. They are big black and furry and a 454 casull or .45LC are nice to have on those occasions. My personal preference is the .45LC.

Racist post... :)

http://static.flickr.com/79/205261473_400ff869ed.jpg

[Lonegun1894]

Implied


Bearcove,
What I said was that I have read that the 1892 action is strong enough to handle the pressures, I DID NOT say anyone should be doing it, and I know it is not something I ever have or will attempt. I also said that while I do use "Ruger-only" loads, at least for some things, that I got a .45-70 for times when I want more. Nowhere did I suggest anyone should be loading a .45 Colt to 60K-level pressure loads, so I hope you didn't get the idea that I was.

[Lonegun1894]

The 1892 action is known to be strong enough to handle 60K CUP loads, based on what I have read. Now I don't know how extensive the testing was with those kinds of loads, or how many rounds were fired. I know my Rossi is good with "Ruger-only" .45 Colt loads with 270gr RCBS SAA boolits, but I have a .45-70 and use either a 330gr Gould HP or a RCBS 405gr that casts at 420 grs for when I think I may need more power. Now, I don't really think more than .45 Colt is needed, but it's nice to have options.

Just to help clear things up, unless someone it trying to stir the pot and put words in my mouth, the only thing I IMPLIED was that if you need more than Ruger-only .45 Colt power levels out of your .45 Colt 1892 Rossi rifle, then you should follow my lead and get a .45-70.

[NavyVet1959]

Just to help clear things up, unless someone it trying to stir the pot and put words in my mouth, the only thing I IMPLIED was that if you need more than Ruger-only .45 Colt power levels out of your .45 Colt 1892 Rossi rifle, then you should follow my lead and get a .45-70.

Hmmm... Let's see... A .45 Colt has a 0.454" (lead) or 0.452" (jacketed) diameter (according to the wiki page) whereas a .45-70 has a 0.458" diameter. We're always saying that there is no substitute for "big", right? Seems like a no-brainer to me. :)

Besides, with respect to recoil, the .45-70 in the lower end of the powder loadings always seemed like it had more of a "push" instead of a "kick".

[robertbank]

I think it is fair to say those of us with Rossi lever guns can all agree the curved steel butt plate is down right hurtful when shooting 44Mag or 45 Colt at the high end of the manual loading's or the "Ruger Only" loads. As a seasoned poster from Australia advised me, "Bob the guns will never be of historical interest, put a recoil pad on that 44 Mag and save your shoulder". I paraphrase his advice. I did and it did.

Take Care

Bob

[CLAYPOOL]

I for one am all ways amazed that people WON"T take 2 screws out (carefully) with the proper screw driver head size, tag it to what its for and install a oversized, modern butt pad. The soft gel types, etc. are without a doubt much better. Then they load it to the max and try to find some one to shorten the barrel to make it louder..??? or sell it on Gun Broker.

[Lonegun1894]

I have Rossi 92s in both .44 Mag and .45 Colt, and load them like they were meant to be, and actually LIKE the fact that they have steel butt plates that are durable instead of some piece of plastic that will break or piece of rubber that will dry-rot and come apart in 10-20 years. I know 10-20 years is a lot of use, but I also regularly shoot mil-surps that all have steel butt plates and recoil more with full power loads than a .44 Mag or .45 Colt will, and they don't bother me any either. I also shoot .50 and .54 Lyman Great Plains Rifles, and if you take a look at those butt plates, the Rossi seems like it has almost no curve at all. I must just enjoy pain and didn't know it til this conversation.

[NavyVet1959]

When I was a teenager, the deer rifle that I used was an Arisaka Type 99 (7.7x58 Arisaka) that my father had brought back from WW-II. It had a straight steel buttplate and I never noticed it as having a painful recoil. Using power factor as a measure of momentum and momentum as a measure of recoil, the Arisaka had a PF of 427 and the the .44 mag is less than that unless you get into the +P+ Buffalo Bore loadings.

I stumbled across an old single shot 12-gauge awhile back that had a rubber recoil pad on it. It had gotten so hard over the years that the underlying wood was probably softer than the rubber. I ended up sawing it off and I'll probably end up putting a steel buttplate on it one of these days.

[Dogg]

I agree with navyvet, I have 7 of the rossi Hartfords in 45lc and my load is a hot 44mag+p and I have never really noticed any shoulder pain. Have 3 454s and the biggest problem with them is just hanging on when they go boom. Only shoulder pain I have really experienced from shooting was a 375H&H ruger#1 shot prone, I don't recommend doing that, it hhhurts.

[NavyVet1959]

At this stage in my life though, I have to wonder if I could differentiate the pain from shooting a hot load from the background pain chronic pain that I already experience. Typical case of "if I had known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of my body when I was younger". :(

[Lead Fred]

As far as 45 colt vs 454, 45 colt, dont need anything more. If you max them out you have the 454.

The 1892 design is inferior to both the 1894 Winchester design and the 1936 Marlin design

I would, and have both of those, and no Rossi 92s.

If I were to ever get an M92, it would be Lucas McCain's

142151

[jmort]

"The 1892 design is inferior to both the 1894 Winchester design and the 1936 Marlin design"


​How so?

[M-Tecs]

The 1892 design is inferior to both the 1894 Winchester design and the 1936 Marlin design



I posted this on the other thread on the Rossi 92 that stated the 92 is an inferior design "The Winchester 1892 is a scaled down 1886. I much prefer 92's and 86's over the Winchester 94's. Both the 86's and 92's are smoother and the 92 is claimed to be stronger design than the 94. Different yes. Inferior how so?"

I am still waiting for my education on why the 92 is an inferior design??????????????

[robertbank]

My nexr Rossi will be in 45Colt, a Ranch hand. I want to put a full buttstock on the gun. To me this combo would be the perfect pack gun.

Take Care

Bob

[Lonegun1894]

As far as 45 colt vs 454, 45 colt, dont need anything more. If you max them out you have the 454.

The 1892 design is inferior to both the 1894 Winchester design and the 1936 Marlin design

I would, and have both of those, and no Rossi 92s.

If I were to ever get an M92, it would be Lucas McCain's

142151

Please explain this, cause while both have advantages and disadvantages, they were never meant to do the same exact tasks. I could understand if you had said that one is better than the other for a specific task, or a specific caliber, but I would LOVE to hear the explanation on how one is just flat out all around superior to the other.

[Ed in North Texas]

My nexr Rossi will be in 45Colt, a Ranch hand. I want to put a full buttstock on the gun. To me this combo would be the perfect pack gun.

Take Care

Bob

I could be mistaken, but I think that would be making an SBR out of the Ranch Hand handgun. If I'm correct, don't get caught with it without registering as an SBR and paying the Fed Tax (or don't get caught with it.)

[NavyVet1959]

I could be mistaken, but I think that would be making an SBR out of the Ranch Hand handgun. If I'm correct, don't get caught with it without registering as an SBR and paying the Fed Tax (or don't get caught with it.)

He's a 51st Stater. The rules are a bit different up there.

[robertbank]

The Ranch Hand is consider a rifle up here and the addition of a butt stock is entirely legal in Canada. Nobody said our gun rules make any sense but some times we benefit from the bureaucratic lunacy that abounds on both sides of the 49th.

Take Care

Bob

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Well I can now vote. I bought the Rossi in 454 and I love it. This one is as smooth out of the box as any rifle I have bought new. Clean and crisp trigger break and it points like a dream. I ran a several dozen rounds of mild up through hot loads through it. It didn't have single feed problem with 454 or 45LC.

[KMD]

I have both, I first bought a stainless 16inch 454 for a short bush gun and my 24 inch 45 colt was bought for cowboy action. If I had to choose between the two I would pick a 20 inch 454 just because I could shoot 454 and 45 colt

[Ed in North Texas]

Coming very late back to the thread, a couple of things:

Robert - sorry that I failed to note you are in British Columbia. Yes, your rules are different, some better, some worse. All governments are best at screwing things up.

On the issue of the relative strength of the 92 in .45 Colt vs. .454, and the ability of the R92 in .45 Colt to handle 50k PSI loads, I'll side with Paco Kelly: http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm
In that article Paco states:

"And for Christmas 1998 my wife bought me a Rossi rifle model ‘92 in 45 Colt, with a 24 inch barrel. Which I have been running 50,000 psi pressures in ever since. Nary a problem except one....the loading tube kept cutting the retaining screw off at the muzzle from recoil generated by the heavy loads."

He goes on to state that he didn't believe the '92 design could stand up to 62k to 65k PSI loads, but he had put over 500 rounds of 60 to 65k and an additional 250 rounds of his heavy handloads through his .454 '92 with no problems.

Also in that article there is a short discussion of Browning's development of the '92 from the 1886 that is worth reading.

On the Leverguns.com (Paco's website) there is a forum posting of an OP asking for a Marlin .454.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12008

Steve (Nate Kiowa) Jones and Buck Elliot post some input on the .454 leverguns. I wish Elliot's old post of test data of his .454 testing of Winnie 94s and Marlin 336s was still around. The claim that something once on the web never disappears from the web isn't exactly true, at least in this case.

And after deciding that my 70+ year old shoulder didn't like that curved steel buttplate on the .45 Colt, I decided to try out the Boyd's replacement buttstock. It has far too much wood (MUCH better than not enough), but it is a simple remove the tang screw, switch the stocks and install the screw swap. Much better on the shoulder.

[Ural Driver]

Exactly why I would buy the 454 casull.

..............this

[Clark]

180426
This Winchester 94 Ranger 45 Colt with 250 gr XTP 24 gr H110 will push out the 16.25" barrel at 1536 fps ~ 22 kpsi, 3 moa
The recoil is intolerable.
Putting a large limbsaver grind to fit pad on it and not grinding, it is tolerable.

My BAR 338 Win Mag 250 gr 2600 fps, I can shoot all day.

[dbarry1]

45 Colt. Don't need the extra power (or noise). btw: just added one to the collection.

[historicfirearms]

Anyone know if they are still making the 454? I don't see it on the Rossi website and haven't seen any at the gunshops lately.

[Mossy Oak]

What prices are you finding for the R92 in your neck of the woods? Local shop has new for 450.00 and tax for a 20" barrel.

[rfd]

it's a personal thing, as with most firearms. i have no need for casull horsepower. anything larger or tougher than whitetail that needs killing is assigned to the .45-70, which is now a ppb virtual .45-90 and more than up to the task of handling any nor'merican critters.

the rossi 92 i just bought in 45colt has the 24" barrel, from grab-a-gun for $515 shipped. guess i paid too much.

[Artful]

I would go with 454 as you can shoot either in it with good results.

This - same as why I generally look at 44 mag or 357 mag - gives you options for both specials and magnums.

[rondog]

I wouldn't turn down a .45 Rossi just because I wanted the .454. Rossi's seem to be getting harder to find, at least certain models. Seems like some have been discontinued, like most w/octagonal barrels.

[Fly]

Well it seems it is all about knock down power with most here. Living in Oklahoma the 45 colt will knock down anything I
come across, as wild pigs to black bear. I load my own shells, & it is much cheaper with 45 colt. I load my revolvers as my
Rossi in 45colt. The 92 Rossi I load a little heaver than the pistols, but .005 cents a round is not bad.


JMOHOP Fly

[bearcove]

I load both and the only difference is is a few grains of powder, have brass for both that is 20yrs old. Same molds for both with some of the heavies used mainly for the casull or PP 45 rifle stuff.

Same as my 35 cal stuff goes from 38sp plinkers to 35 Whelen.

Mild to wild.

If you are a homebody and never plan on leaving whitetail country that is different. I bought my first 35 whelen in Arkansas with dream of going elsewhere.

[762sultan]

I came into possession of a Rossi in 45 Colt and am very happy with it. I have a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt and can use many of the same bullet styles in the Rossi. I will keep my shots less than 75 yards where I hunt so I don't need the extra power or blast of a 454 Casull. I don't understand the reason for the small primer in the 454 either. It seems to work well for those that have them though.

[Mgderf]

I came into possession of a Rossi in 45 Colt and am very happy with it. I have a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt and can use many of the same bullet styles in the Rossi. I will keep my shots less than 75 yards where I hunt so I don't need the extra power or blast of a 454 Casull. I don't understand the reason for the small primer in the 454 either. It seems to work well for those that have them though.


It is a small rifle primer, not a pistol primer.
Not sure why...

[rosewood]

It is a small rifle primer, not a pistol primer.
Not sure why...
I think it had something do with pressures. I believe the rifle primers can handle higher pressures than pistol primers. Seems like .454 is in the rifle pressure range.

Rosewood

[Four Fingers of Death]

Looking at the previous posts, I would buy a 454 and mostly shoot 45Colts through it, mainly because of the reported tighter chambers on the 454, but the odd sized bore is another annoying factor. I havee a mate tryng to get me to swap all sorts of things for a Rossi 454, but he has an unrealistic idea of it's value.

My 44Mag Rossi can rattle my teeth with sufficient zeal that I don't really see any need to upgrade, haha.

[rosewood]

Looking at the previous posts, I would buy a 454 and mostly shoot 45Colts through it, mainly because of the reported tighter chambers on the 454, but the odd sized bore is another annoying factor. I havee a mate tryng to get me to swap all sorts of things for a Rossi 454, but he has an unrealistic idea of it's value.

My 44Mag Rossi can rattle my teeth with sufficient zeal that I don't really see any need to upgrade, haha.

Everything I shoot through mine is sized .452, never any issues.

[robertbank]

Looking at the previous posts, I would buy a 454 and mostly shoot 45Colts through it, mainly because of the reported tighter chambers on the 454, but the odd sized bore is another annoying factor. I havee a mate tryng to get me to swap all sorts of things for a Rossi 454, but he has an unrealistic idea of it's value.

My 44Mag Rossi can rattle my teeth with sufficient zeal that I don't really see any need to upgrade, haha.

Here I thought I was the only one who lost teeth with the 44 Mag. I put a Limbsaver on mine and it hurts quite a bit less. I now have a shoulder that has a torn rota tor cuff and an absence of cartilage so I am afraid for the next couple of years long guns and I are pretty much done. The curved butt plate is a killer!

Take Care

Bob

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have also found that the 44Mag with a decent lead boolit at sane velocities is a bang flop kind of deal. I would only load to Gonzo levels if there was thins like bear around and if there was, I'd be packing a more powerful rifle anyway.

[rosewood]

My Puma .454 came with a recoil pad. I definitely would have not wanted it with a curved metal butt plate. I do not think the 44 ever came with the recoil pad though. I used it for cowboy shooting and shot 45 colts through it. I covered the recoil pad with a piece of faux leather so the other cowboy shooters wouldn't give me a hard time about it not being "authentic".

[robertbank]

Well my 44Mag Rossi with a 20" barrel was absolutely hurtful with that steel curved butt plate. I can't think of a rifle that was more unpleasant to shoot with factory or factory equivalent loads.

Take Care

Bob

[rosewood]

Well my 44Mag Rossi with a 20" barrel was absolutely hurtful with that steel curved butt plate. I can't think of a rifle that was more unpleasant to shoot with factory or factory equivalent loads.

Take Care

Bob

I have a H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70 with 32" barrel. It came with a curved butt plate. I made a curved to flat spacer out of some delrin and then put one of those slip on recoil pads on it. Makes it much more pleasant to shoot. Not very attractive though. Need to order myself one of those leather slip on recoil pads.

Rosewood

[BAGTIC]

I had both. The .454 handles COL .10 inch longer as that is the SAAMI limit for that cartridge. It will accept 45 Colt cartridges so reloaders could probably load their 45 Colt .10 inch longer. That would increase case capacity by about 4 grains of water or 9 %. I have had my right shoulder operated on to eliminate bone spurs, etc.. Don't want to do it again. The 45 Colt with +p loads is more than enough for me from now on and even then I now have a thick, soft, shotgun style recoil pad.

[joel.w]

I've got a rossi ranchand in 45 colt.but it will also shoot the 454 casull

[historicfirearms]

I've got a rossi ranchand in 45 colt.but it will also shoot the 454 casull
Wow, I bet that is a handful with a ranchand shooting 454.
Did you have the chamber reamed for the longer cartridge or did it come from rossi that way?

[rondog]

Besides the punishing recoil, Rossi didn't offer .454 Casull in the 24" octagonal rifle that I wanted. I hear y'all about the curved buttplate, but I love the classic look of it so much I just deal with it, or use a recoil pad on my shoulder. But my .45 Colt loads aren't that bad.

[BAGTIC]

Besides a M92 in 45 Colt and 454 I also have a Winchester 94 45 Colt. The M94 has the cartridge stop ground back so that it will take a 1.8 inch LOA cartridge. The increased usable case volume is greater than the 454 so that at 45 Colt +P pressures it can pretty much duplicate the 454 velocities. It still feeds interchangeably 45 Colt regular loads and 1.8 LOA loads.

[Newtire]

I thought I wanted a 454 casull but ended up with 3 in 45 colt.
I figured if I really needed more than the 45 colt I needed a bunch more and just bought a 45/70,


I can't hit a deer with 100% reliability past 150yds or so with open sights anyway, but that extra energy is great if you need to really plow a boolit into the dirt. Decisions, decisions. There's something to be said for the portability of the lightweight '92 in .454 Casull over the beefier .45-70 in an '86 or '71.

[18Bravo]

I have the 92 in 45 Colt. I wanted the 454 initially but they were unavailable at the time and being impatient didn't want to wait. Good thing about the 454, as has already been mentioned, is it's ability to also shoot 45 Colt. Say what you will about Rossi, my M92 has been nothing but rock solid. Spends its time at the farm and has accounted for numerous critters.

[Shawlerbrook]

Like others said, don't necessarily have to magnum it, but it's there if you need it.

[AlaskaMike]

I'm with those who recognize the beefiness of the .454, but also recognize that you don't always need to go with full-house loads. It has minor structural improvements the .45 Colt version doesn't have, and you can always download .454 loads.

I'm kind of interested in the .480 Ruger M92s though. Unfortunately they seem to be pretty rare.

[Four Fingers of Death]

.480 Ruger M92???? Ouch!

[Pereira]

45 Colt hands down.

RP

[Newtire]

I bid on one in .454 at an estate sale and won. After buying 150 .454 cases from Starline and shooting a few, I mostly just shoot .45 Colt anymore. Nice to know that the ability is there though.

[Texas by God]

.480 Ruger M92???? Ouch!No kidding! As an indestructible young man, I loaded my 44-40 Rossi with 200gr jacketed loads to 2000fps- straight out of the Lyman 45th ( back of the book in "obsolete cartridges").....
On the third shot the magazine tube lurched forward from recoil.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[farmbif]

ive never had a 454 but the Rossi 92 in 45 colt is a gem. only one mold and load needed. mp 454640 lube sized to .454 with 20 or 21 grains of 4227. no need to even try anything else in it.

[murf205]

I have to ask, since I have never seen or really been looking for a 454 Rossi, how does the action lock up? Does it have the dual locking bars like a 94 Winchester? It has to be pretty unique to handle a 60K psi round like a 454. I know that 1894 Marlins are pretty strong but they never made a 454 to my knowledge.

[danmat]

299704I voted 454, since I just bought one.
But I already had win. 92 in 45 colt299703

[454PB]

Mine is a Puma model 92, and you can read more about it here:

https://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm

[danmat]

Mine is also a Puma Imported by LSI Reno Nevada, has the bolt safety.

[jonp]

Can't you shoot both from the 454? That would make this a no brainer I would think

[murf205]

Mine is a Puma model 92, and you can read more about it here:

https://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm

Thank you, now to find one like he did for $400!!

[AlaskaMike]

There are a couple of advantages the .454 carbine gives you over the .45 Colt version.

You get a mag tube that has a very secure, threaded connection into the receiver. No more experiences of the mag tube popping out under recoil, as many of the .44 mag Rossi owners here have already attested to. Sure, lots of folks will say that they don't load their .45 Colt ammo that hot, but personally I'll take a stronger rifle any day of the week.

With the .454, the mag can also be loaded like a tube mag .22. The inner sleeve can be pulled out, and you can just drop shells in, then slide the inner sleeve back in and resecure it. This can be pretty handy when doing a lot of shooting. My thumb can get a little tired shoving shells through the loading gate after a while. Yes, I know the loading gate spring pressure can be lightened a little which can help some. I've done that on my .44 mag and .357 mag Rossi 92s, but I wish those two also had the ability to load the mag like the .454.

I certainly wouldn't have any problems at all with a .45 Colt model 92, but given the choice I'll take the .454 every time.

[cwlongshot]

454 all week and twice on Sunday!!!


WHY NOT!!! It shoots 45 Colts but the 45 Colt ONLY SHOOTS 45 Colt!!!

As a hand loader it affords BUKU more options!!

CW

[Griff]

.45 Colt... if I need more gun, I've already got a .45-70!

[hornetguy]

It's odd that every time someone mentions they want to shoot 38's out of their 357's, it usually brings multiple warnings about "carbon rings" developing that could cause higher pressure when going back to the 357 length cases, or erosion in front of the 38 cases, yada yada....same thing with the 44 mag/44 special.
I've never heard anyone mention this with the 454/45 Colt combination....
Personally, I think all the warnings on the 357/38 and 44 mag/special are mostly urban legend/old wives tales, but that's just my experience. I just find it odd that nobody sees a need to "warn" anybody about this with the casull....

[doghawg]

I bought a nice 5" Model 29 classic from an elderly gent who wasn't able to shoot anymore. It turned out that he had always used .44 Special in this gun and it wouldn't even chamber a magnum cartridge when I tried. I spent several days of alternately soaking with Kroil and brushing to get the carbon ring out. I have no idea how many rounds of .44 special it took to do that but I know for a fact it's not an old wives tale. Freedom Arms warns not to shoot .45 Colt in their .454's.

[M-Tecs]

With proper cleaning it's a non-issue. Without proper cleaning it can become a very real issue.

[460S&W]

My vote is for the 454, it gives you more options and a solid rifle