44 Mag real life results?

[Michael J. Spangler]

HI Guys,

I just started loading for the wonderful 44 magnum. I'm casting boolits out of 50/50 COWW and Pure coated 3X with Hi-tek gold.
They come out at about 255 grains.
I don't like the idea of hot powders that cause flame cutting ( I know it only gets so bad and then stops, I just don't like the idea of damaging a pre lock S&W that can't have the frame replaced without having a lock) Or using super heavy doses of powder to gain a little velocity.
99% of my shooting is done at the range. I still want some bang, but don't see a need for 20+ grains of powder to do so. I like the idea of unique for all of my needs with cast lead.
I see the new Alliant manual lists 11 grains as a max with cast 250 @ about 1211 FPS, but my Lyman manual lists 13 grains as max with a 245 (429421 lino) at about 1147 FPS. They also list a 255 grain (429244 Lino) with a max of 12 Grains at about 1100 FPS.
Lyman used a universal receiver with a 4" barrel
Alliant doesn't list their firearm or barrel used for their data.

I'm wondering what all of you have found using unique and a 255 (429421 or similar) in your real world chorine results.
I'll be shooting a 6 1/2" 629-4
I'm really just looking for a nice Elmer load of 1200 FPS without burning the recommended (lyman) 22.2 grains of 2400 to get 1165 FPS. That seems a little wasteful in my book.

Thanks everyone!

[Wayne Dobbs]

If you're going to be just range shooting, why not use the classic 8.5 grains of Unique for about 900-950 fps and take it easy on the gun and you? 10 grains gets you about 1050-1100 (depending on barrel length, etc.) and will kill anything on four legs in the lower 48 states. John Linebaugh pointed out that anything above 900 is just flattening the trajectory, not really adding real effectiveness anyway. You can go much higher with the caliber, but you can do just about everything you need with a .44 Mag and Unique with those two loads.

[BNE]

If you're going to be just range shooting, why not use the classic 8.5 grains of Unique for about 900-950 fps and take it easy on the gun and you? 10 grains gets you about 1050-1100 (depending on barrel length, etc.) and will kill anything on four legs in the lower 48 states. John Linebaugh pointed out that anything above 900 is just flattening the trajectory, not really adding real effectiveness anyway. You can go much higher with the caliber, but you can do just about everything you need with a .44 Mag and Unique with those two loads.

Mr. Dobbs is correct. Try this, I think you will be pleased.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I know I can slow it down and have a nice light shooting load. That being said I'm looking for some thump on my end. I have a 625-3 that I use NOE 453423 with 6.5 grain of universal to get 900+ FPS
If i used that reasoning then I would make my 629 redundant. How would I tell my wife that the gun I just bought was going to do the same thing as one I already owned but less efficiently with more expensive brass and the need for new dies, conversion kits, moulds etc?
I do appreciate the suggestion guys, but I'm looking to experience the thump of 44 mag as god intended it to be ; )

[Blammer]

I like 8-10gr of unique with 250ish grain bullets.

Good accuracy (worked up for your gun, hence the load range), good bang, not too much recoil, easy on the gun and good for deer too!

[RKJ]

I use a load I that I found in American Handgunner from one of John Taffin's columns. 10.5 grains of Unique. It has enough authority to let you know you're shooting a 44 Mag but it doesn't beat you up either. I like it and I've gotten to where I really don't want to get beat to shoot my guns.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

What Wayne Dobbs said.

[376Steyr]

10 grs. of Unique and a 250+ Keith will hit plenty hard enough on both ends. The last time I did some load testing, 75 rounds in one session with a taper-barreled 4" M629, I got a patch of skin beaten off my trigger finger from the recoil.

[tygar]

10gr Unique was my go to load in 6.5 M29 with 240-255. It goes 1050 with 245s easily.

[timberhawk]

Unique is one of my favorite powders for everything. I don't use Unique for higher end loads. I use a slower powder for those.

I use 9.0 grs. of unique with a 250 Gr. Lyman Keith Style with excellent accuracy. Runs just under 1,000 fps and is probably more accurate than I can shot.

Another load is 20.0 grs. of 296 with a magnum primer with a 280 GC LBT WFN is hard to beat. Gets the velocity you want, but is not a maximum load. I know this is not your bullet weight, but I wanted to be accurate in my representation of the load. Should work well with a 255 gr. bullet with a little tweaking.
Out of my scoped S&W 629 Classic Hunter, I have had all shots touching at 50 yards if I do my part (this gets harder as I get older). Just giving you another choice.

[Outpost75]

Agree on the 8.5 to 10.0 of Unique as being a "happy place".

I accomplish the same thing in my .44s using 7.2 to 8.4 grains of Bullseye, which also works well with any bullet which "fits" from 200-260 grains, and is better suited for machine loading than trying to meter Unique's larger particle size. Velocity and energy compare to full charge loads in the .44-40 and .45 Colt, which I find quite adequate for most field shooting.

[ebner glocken]

I shoot a kieth that weighs just about 260 grains cast and coated. With 7.5 grains of ww231 it shoots 950 FPS out of a 6" bbl and 1050 FPS out of a 18" carbine barrel. Accuracy is better than I can hold and will punch a hole through anything that I shall ever shoot at around here. Getting 933 rounds per pound of powder is a huge plus.

The heavy loads are with ww296 but I don't think these loads do a whole lot that the other won't. The lighter load just seems to work w/o all the drama.

Ebner

[Mal Paso]

I'm really just looking for a nice Elmer load of 1200 FPS without burning the recommended (lyman) 22.2 grains of 2400 to get 1165 FPS. That seems a little wasteful in my book.
Thanks everyone!

22g of 2400 gets me 1400-1600 fps in 4-6 inch guns depending on batch and is over all current listed maximum loads for a 255g bullet.

I get 1275 fps with 19-20g of 2400 with a 260g .431 boolit 6"bbl.

Try the powders before you stock up. My first purchases were made according to rounds per pound and I have a lifetime supply of fast powders.

Lyman also sized the bullets .429 in the last test (4"barrel). Better fit increases pressure which causes powders to burn more efficently which increases speed. Powders burn differently at different pressures.

Alliant uses an 8 1/4 inch barrel is I'm not mistaken.

[Thumbcocker]

9.0 of Power Pistol. Accuracy and plenty of thump for all but hunting.

[crabo]

I really like 12 grains of HS6 behind an H&G 53. 2" groups at 50 yards. IIRC, it goes about 1200 fps. Very nice load, controllable in a 3" 629 Trail Boss, but more pleasant in a heavier gun, if you want to shoot 50 or more.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I like 14.8gr of Blue Dot i can hit my 10" steel gong at 100 yards with that load

[454PB]

Me too. BlueDot is my go to powder for mid range to near full power loads.

[MtGun44]

Lino boolits ia a real waste of good alloy. 10 gr of Unique or 9 gr of Power
Pistol under a nice 12 BHN air cooled WWTs H&G 503 sized to throat diameter
and properly lubed works great. Either produces about 1050-1100, depending
on barrel length. Very accurate in most pistols.

[fatelk]

10 grains gets you about 1050-1100 (depending on barrel length, etc.) and will kill anything on four legs in the lower 48 states. John Linebaugh pointed out that anything above 900 is just flattening the trajectory, not really adding real effectiveness anyway.

I've heard this said before and have wondered about it. I'm not a hunter myself, so I have to wonder what's the point of the .44 Magnum anyway? I have a friend who hunts for a living (wildlife control) and shoots a lot of bears (no, not the big brown ones). He carries a .44 revolver and a .44 rifle and likes them loaded heavy. He has some scary stories about being way too close for comfort to an angry bear more than once. Would he really be just as well served with lighter loads. It's an academic question of course, since he's going to use what he uses now; I'm just curious.

[375supermag]

Hi...

I have been using 10.0 gr of Unique with a 240gr LSWC in a variety of .44Mag revolvers as a general-purpose load for years.
Provides a magnum recoil and power experience with excellent accuracy.

I still load heavier loads with 2400 and H110/W296(both cast and jacketed), but the vast majority of my handgun shooting has always been with LSWC at slightly above mid-range power levels for any given caliber.
I get excellent accuracy, more than adequate power and pretty good economy( as far as cost of powder per shot). And the wear and tear on the handgun is minimized. Seems like a win-win situation to me.

I don't own a chronograph, so no velocity data. I really need to get a chrongraph one of these days, just so I know what my loads are doing in my revolvers as compared to what is reported in some reloading manual.

[Char-Gar]

I know I can slow it down and have a nice light shooting load. That being said I'm looking for some thump on my end. I have a 625-3 that I use NOE 453423 with 6.5 grain of universal to get 900+ FPS
If i used that reasoning then I would make my 629 redundant. How would I tell my wife that the gun I just bought was going to do the same thing as one I already owned but less efficiently with more expensive brass and the need for new dies, conversion kits, moulds etc?
I do appreciate the suggestion guys, but I'm looking to experience the thump of 44 mag as god intended it to be ; )

I can't help but wonder how old you are? This posts sounds like a young man's post.

This comes from a fellow who like to feel the thump as you call it when he was younger. Now that I am older and have bad arthritis in my shooting hand, and tendinitis in my elbow of my shooting arms, I wish somebody would have given me a "talking to" when I was young and let my hand and arms absorb recoil for no good reason.

Consider yourself "talked to". Enjoy the thump, but there will be a price to pay down the road and you will regret your youthful desire to experience hard recoil.

There days, I shoot 38 Specials, 45 ACPs, factory level 45 Colts and 44 Magnums loaded down to 900 fps and have lots of fun. I wish I had gone this route 40 years ago.

You have received lots of good advice from experienced people about 8.5 - 10.0 grains of Unique. You would be well advised to pay attention to what you have read from these people.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I can't help but wonder how old you are? This posts sounds like a young man's post.

This comes from a fellow who like to feel the thump as you call it when he was younger. Now that I am older and have bad arthritis in my shooting hand, and tendinitis in my elbow of my shooting arms, I wish somebody would have given me a "talking to" when I was young and let my hand and arms absorb recoil for no good reason.

Consider yourself "talked to". Enjoy the thump, but there will be a price to pay down the road and you will regret your youthful desire to experience hard recoil.

There days, I shoot 38 Specials, 45 ACPs, factory level 45 Colts and 44 Magnums loaded down to 900 fps and have lots of fun. I wish I had gone this route 40 years ago.


You got me. I'm 29.
I'm not looking to shooting hundreds of rounds per session of full bore H110 loads. I really just want to have mid level cast boolit friendly loads thats all.
I normally bring my 686 and 625 to the range weekly and shoot 158 grain over 3.5 bullseye or 200 grain bullet over 4.5 grains of red dot respectively. I'll shoot a couple hundred or so rounds every week of these light loads. I do however want to shoot some thumpers now and then. I don't see much use in shooting a 44 with 45 ACP loads in it thats all.
I would rather just keep my press set up for 45 ACP and not have to deal with changing over the press to load my 125 each 44 magnum cases at the same power level when I could keep the 45 ACP dies in there and load hundreds of them in one sitting.
It's like my 45-70. I usually just shoot 12 grains of unique 80% of the time. I do however like to shoot some hot loads from time to time.

I'm not a recoil junkie by any means. I didn't opt for the 460 or 500 mag for that reason. I just want to know that I'm shooting a different gun. Basically everything I shoot is a revolver. It's hard for me to tell the difference between my 5" barrel 625 shooting a 230 grain at 850 and a 6 1/2" barrel shooting a 240 grain at 900.

Thanks for the heads up though. I don't want ruin myself so I possibly won't be able to enjoy shooting later in life.

[unclebill]

i am a 10.0 unique guy as well

[TCFAN]

If I want a 1200 fps. load out of my Super Black Hawk with the Lyman 429421 I use 12.0 grs of Herco. That is about all the recoil I want any more. Here of late I find 6.5 grs of Bullseye a lot more enjoyable with the 429421 boolit.............Terry

[roberts1]

10gr unique, 240 gr lswc in my old model vaquero 6" barrel. Powerful but not punishing. 43 yrs old btw so a little arthritis in the hands but not too bad yet. :)

[Char-Gar]

You got me. I'm 29.

A little quick math tell me I was 43 years old when you were born. That doesn't make me smarter, just more time to make mistakes and do things I regret due to the long term consequences.

I shot my 3" Colt Detective Special (38 Special factory level loads) yesterday and my shooting hand is a little sore today, but not so much that it keeps me from doing anything I want to. Had I shot full snort 44 Magnums yesterday, I would had to hold my coffee cup in my non-shooting hand this morning. It would take 4 or 5 days for the pain to go away.

I have one box of 50 full snort 44 Magnums somewhere around the shop. I loaded them 15 years go and would have to hunt them up from wherever they are. I suspect they will go in the trash after I am gone.

Many decades of shooting heavy recoil rifle and handguns will in due time, due some real damage to your shoulder, elbow and hand. John Taffin, is my same age, but has shot many more than rounds that I have. He has had several surgeries and now has to use a brace on his hand and arm to test shoot heavy recoil handguns.

Just saying Michael, just saying...

[frank505]

I'm sixty and shoot lots of heavy recoiling rifles and six-guns. And have for forty five years. Exercise, eat buffalo, elk and deer. Take krill oil . Hunt lots and lots and lots especially on the mountain. Shoot whatever you want to shoot whenever you want to shoot it. And carry a 1911 always. Enjoy shooting.

[kenyerian]

I shot 25 full house loads in my contender on Thursday and my wrist has been sore all week end,. I'll be 62 the 29'th'. I had mounted a new scope on it and was sighting it in. I had it pretty well dialed in with some light loads and then shot 25 rounds with my hunting loads at 100 yards. This barrel has always preformed best with 2400 and a 255 grain Lyman 429244. Then after I was satisfied with that setup I shot some 45 colt cowboy loads and some 7tcu's and some 22 hornets. Basically spent the whole day fooling with my contenders. Paid for it the rest of the weekend.

[Mtnfolk75]

I was 61 in December, have been handgun shooting since I was about 14 or so. Bought my 1st personally owned handgun when I turned 21, it was a Ruger Super Single Six Convertible, 22LR/22WMR, with a 4 5/8" barrel. From there I have shot everything up to a 454 Casull :Fire: When I was 45 I had a medical issue with my gun hand, initially it was diagnosed as a stroke. After about a month of pokey and shockey type test, they determined that I had a severe case of Carpal Tunnel with a little Tendonitis in my elbow. I had a 2 part surgery and was off the job for 10 months, before returning to patrol. For 4 months, then I had major issues again and had another surgery that resulted in my forced retirement 8 months later. I was 47, being a hard headed type IDIOT, I continued shooting heavy recoiling handguns and rifles.

In 2002, I broke my right shoulder blade in a Motorcycle wreck .... remember the IDIOT part ...... [smilie=2: That put the heavy recoiling rifles down the road, I now have trouble shooting anything heavier that about a .243 or 20 Gauge. I shot heavy recoiling handguns for about 5 for more years before having another round of medical issues with my shooting hand again. After another month of pokey and electric shock type tests, the Neurologist said I had severe nerve damage in my right hand and arm ..... :shock: Nowadays, the heaviest recoiling handgun I shoot is a 4" S&W Model 66-8 4" in .357 Mag with 6 grains of Unique behind a 140 grain cast boolit. I shoot a lot more .38 Specials with 3.5 grains of Bullseye behind the same 140 grain SWC out of it though. Most mornings now, I can't hold a cup of coffee in my right hand for about hour and then only after a bunch of manual manipulation of the hand and wrist along with 2 Extra-Strength Tylenols. I have to take 2 Tylenol PM's every night or the pain will wake me many times during the night.

I really wish I had listened to my elders when I was younger ........ :-( But, if I had I wouldn't have had near as much fun ........[smilie=s:

[scattershot]

12 grains of Unique will get you 1200 fps in the .44 mag with a Hornady 240 grain XTP. Never tried it with a cast boolit, though.

[Michael J. Spangler]

A little quick math tell me I was 43 years old when you were born. That doesn't make me smarter, just more time to make mistakes and do things I regret due to the long term consequences.

I shot my 3" Colt Detective Special (38 Special factory level loads) yesterday and my shooting hand is a little sore today, but not so much that it keeps me from doing anything I want to. Had I shot full snort 44 Magnums yesterday, I would had to hold my coffee cup in my non-shooting hand this morning. It would take 4 or 5 days for the pain to go away.

I have one box of 50 full snort 44 Magnums somewhere around the shop. I loaded them 15 years go and would have to hunt them up from wherever they are. I suspect they will go in the trash after I am gone.

Many decades of shooting heavy recoil rifle and handguns will in due time, due some real damage to your shoulder, elbow and hand. John Taffin, is my same age, but has shot many more than rounds that I have. He has had several surgeries and now has to use a brace on his hand and arm to test shoot heavy recoil handguns.

Just saying Michael, just saying...
Thank you for the sound advice. I hope to be your age and still enjoying the sport someday. I can say I won't be chasing the jacketed H110 loads. I haven't bought a bullet since i started casting and I don't plan on ever buying one again. It's all cast for me. I can't say I won't venture to the respectable cast boolit territory around 1200 FPS and maybe the occasion hot load of 2400 powder from time to time. I don't need all of the noise and flash to make me happy. I do enjoy lobbing a 358495 out of my 1894 carbine at 200 yard steel plates. I get more of a chuckle out of that ping of the steel than I do out of the boom of the 44 mag. The two teamed up together might be really fun though ; )


12 grains of Unique will get you 1200 fps in the .44 mag with a Hornady 240 grain XTP. Never tried it with a cast boolit, though.

Thank you for the info. I would venture to guess I would be pretty close with that 255 cast.

[bhn22]

Ditch the Unique and look for 2400 or Accurate #9 for slightly reduced "low guilt" loads. The loads suggested so far were offering the performance the writers thought you wanted, with the powder you had on hand. It appears that you want the recoil, flash, and noise of full power loads without the potential for gun wear. You'll have to compromise with yourself somewhere. 2400 & AA#9 are more flexible as far as loading data goes than H110, they are also in short supply at the moment, but you may be able to find them somewhere. BTW, faster burning powders cause erosion too.

[Char-Gar]

Thank you for the sound advice. I hope to be your age and still enjoying the sport someday. I can say I won't be chasing the jacketed H110 loads. I haven't bought a bullet since i started casting and I don't plan on ever buying one again. It's all cast for me. I can't say I won't venture to the respectable cast boolit territory around 1200 FPS and maybe the occasion hot load of 2400 powder from time to time. I don't need all of the noise and flash to make me happy. I do enjoy lobbing a 358495 out of my 1894 carbine at 200 yard steel plates. I get more of a chuckle out of that ping of the steel than I do out of the boom of the 44 mag. The two teamed up together might be really fun though ; )

Thank you for the info. I would venture to guess I would be pretty close with that 255 cast.


I was loading handgun ammo years before jacketed HP bullets came on the market. It was all lead or some FMJ in factory autopistol rounds. If you handloaded for sixguns, you cast your own or bought from the very few people that did hand casting commercially.

I doubt if I have loaded more than 500 rounds of jacketed bullet handgun ammo in my life. I can find no reason to do so, so I don't.

I started shooting at 5 years of age and was shooting competition 22 rifle matches at age 12. I started in high power rifle competition at 16 and Bullseye Pistol matches at 18. I still enjoy shooting as much as I did 67 years ago and have no intention of stopping. As you get older your eyes are not as sharp and you lose some muscle tone, but there are ways to get around that.

I still shoot competition 22 pistols (falling plate matches) every Saturday, and while I not the top shooter, most often I can still win some money for 2nd or 3rd. place. Everyonce in a while when the top guys have a bad day, I can take 1st. I still have some good years at the firing line left in me, so the kids need to watch out!

[DR Owl Creek]

FWIW. This thread points out the importance of using several sources of reloading data, and why it's important to always start low and work up towards maximum loads.

Unique is one of my favorite handgun powders. It's useful in a number of different cartridges and applications. It, however, may not be the best powder for every application.

About 9 to 10 years ago, I was working up some handloads for several of my .44s using a commercial hardcast 245 grain Keith type SWC, and various powders. The two handguns that I use most often are a S&W 629 Classic and a Dan Wesson 744 VH. The DW 744 will handle a little hotter loads than the S&W 629.

I always start a new load by checking various loading manuals for load data, and then working up from the starting loads to the maximum loads to see what works best with the various powders I have. For this particular work up, I noticed that Lyman's data showed a higher maximum load than any of the other sources.

I started the load development at the lowest listed starting load for each powder, and worked up in 1/2 grain increments. With both the S&W 629 and the DW 744, I got the best accuracy between 8gr and 10gr of Unique. Above 10gr, the group sizes with these loads started opening up.

With the DW 744, the 11.5gr load of Unique didn't show any problems or pressure signs, other than flattened primers. The 12gr load, however, had very sticky extraction of the fired cases. With the S&W 629, on the other hand, I got sticky extraction of the cases at 11.5gr, and VERY sticky extraction at 12gr. From this, with the 245gr Keith type SWC and Unique, I wouldn't use charge weights higher than 11.5gr in the DW, or 11.0gr in the S&W. IMHO. Maximum loads of H-110 didn't produce sticky extraction in either gun with this bullet.

The data I used when starting these loads came from the Lyman 48th Reloading Handbook. After this experience, I went back and rechecked the Lyman loading data. The "handgun" data for the 245gr #429421 Keith type bullet (p. 354) listed a "starting" load of 9.8gr of Unique, and a "maximum" load of 13gr. The "rifle" data for the 240gr #429667 (p. 289) listed a "starting" load of 10.0gr and a "maximum" load of 11.7gr of Unique. The "Thompson/Center, Contender & Encore" data (p. 388) for the 255gr #429244 bullet listed a "starting" load of 8.9gr and a "maximum" load of 12.1gr of Unique. I believe Lyman got something mixed up with their data somewhere.

Other sources, such as the Alliant Reloader's Guide for handguns listed a 250gr Keith type bullet with a maximum load of 11.0gr of Unique. The Speer Reloading Manual #14 with the 250gr RCBS #44-250K bullet listed a starting load of 9.0gr, and a maximum load of 11.0gr of Unique.

The Hodgdon No. 27 Data Manual (1998) with a 240gr cast lead SWC listed a maximum load of 11.8gr of Unique (#31 on their burn rate chart) at 35,000 PSI. The Hodgdon No.27 Manual with the 240gr cast lead SWC also listed a starting load of 6.5gr, and a maximum load of 10.2gr of Universal (#32 on their burn rate chart) at 37.500 CUP. The current Hodgdon Annual Manual still lists the 240gr cast lead SWC with a maximum load of 10.2gr of Universal, at 37,500 CUP.

While I really like Unique for a number of different loads, I think you would be better served by looking for a slower powder, and several sources of data, if you want to try pushing towards maximum velocities in a 44. Keep the charge weights of Unique between 8gr to 10gr, and you'll be better off. IMO.

Dave

[Michael J. Spangler]

FWIW. This thread points out the importance of using several sources of reloading data, and why it's important to always start low and work up towards maximum loads.

Unique is one of my favorite handgun powders. It's useful in a number of different cartridges and applications. It, however, may not be the best powder for every application.

About 9 to 10 years ago, I was working up some handloads for several of my .44s using a commercial hardcast 245 grain Keith type SWC, and various powders. The two handguns that I use most often are a S&W 629 Classic and a Dan Wesson 744 VH. The DW 744 will handle a little hotter loads than the S&W 629.

I always start a new load by checking various loading manuals for load data, and then working up from the starting loads to the maximum loads to see what works best with the various powders I have. For this particular work up, I noticed that Lyman's data showed a higher maximum load than any of the other sources.

I started the load development at the lowest listed starting load for each powder, and worked up in 1/2 grain increments. With both the S&W 629 and the DW 744, I got the best accuracy between 8gr and 10gr of Unique. Above 10gr, the group sizes with these loads started opening up.

With the DW 744, the 11.5gr load of Unique didn't show any problems or pressure signs, other than flattened primers. The 12gr load, however, had very sticky extraction of the fired cases. With the S&W 629, on the other hand, I got sticky extraction of the cases at 11.5gr, and VERY sticky extraction at 12gr. From this, with the 245gr Keith type SWC and Unique, I wouldn't use charge weights higher than 11.5gr in the DW, or 11.0gr in the S&W. IMHO. Maximum loads of H-110 didn't produce sticky extraction in either gun with this bullet.

The data I used when starting these loads came from the Lyman 48th Reloading Handbook. After this experience, I went back and rechecked the Lyman loading data. The "handgun" data for the 245gr #429421 Keith type bullet (p. 354) listed a "starting" load of 9.8gr of Unique, and a "maximum" load of 13gr. The "rifle" data for the 240gr #429667 (p. 289) listed a "starting" load of 10.0gr and a "maximum" load of 11.7gr of Unique. The "Thompson/Center, Contender & Encore" data (p. 388) for the 255gr #429244 bullet listed a "starting" load of 8.9gr and a "maximum" load of 12.1gr of Unique. I believe Lyman got something mixed up with their data somewhere.

Other sources, such as the Alliant Reloader's Guide for handguns listed a 250gr Keith type bullet with a maximum load of 11.0gr of Unique. The Speer Reloading Manual #14 with the 250gr RCBS #44-250K bullet listed a starting load of 9.0gr, and a maximum load of 11.0gr of Unique.

The Hodgdon No. 27 Data Manual (1998) with a 240gr cast lead SWC listed a maximum load of 11.8gr of Unique (#31 on their burn rate chart) at 35,000 PSI. The Hodgdon No.27 Manual with the 240gr cast lead SWC also listed a starting load of 6.5gr, and a maximum load of 10.2gr of Universal (#32 on their burn rate chart) at 37.500 CUP. The current Hodgdon Annual Manual still lists the 240gr cast lead SWC with a maximum load of 10.2gr of Universal, at 37,500 CUP.

While I really like Unique for a number of different loads, I think you would be better served by looking for a slower powder, and several sources of data, if you want to try pushing towards maximum velocities in a 44. Keep the charge weights of Unique between 8gr to 10gr, and you'll be better off. IMO.

Dave

yeah seems some of the load data is off from book to book every time. I always try to check the loads from at least 3 sources.
Just to clarify (not sure if I did clarify before) I don't plan on trying to get any velocity out of unique that isn't normal. I'm just trying to see what real life data was from users of the same powder and bullet combo.
If and when I want hotter loads I will switch to something much slower and better suited for the job.

I might be looking at something a touch slower or better suited to a little faster load. Lets see what 10 or so grains of Unique and similar velocity with Universal feels like. If that doesn't give me the BANG for my buck I'll be moving to something along the lines of HS-6 or Win 231. They seem to be in between the Unique level loads, and the H110 loads both in velocity and how much powder they burn up.

[Mal Paso]

Use it or loose it is also true.

I'm 63 and need regular trips to the range if I want to shoot accurately all day. 200 rounds of 260g boolits at 1275 or about 930 ftlbs of muzzle energy is average from a 6" 629. There is no pain that day or the next. 50 1200 ftlb loads from a 4" 44 is all I want but I don't shoot 'till it hurts. I'm 6'2", 180 lbs. I always shoot Mag loads 2 handed.

I remember being beaten up pretty good by less than 50 rounds of factory ammo when I started. Blisters and bleeding at times. I think it was trying to control the recoil. You can't. You can only control for the shot. You let the gun move and recover it after. You learn to avoid much of the recoil. I've no calluses now except the side of both index fingers from cylinder gap blast. I only shoot 44 Mag.

231 gets hot pretty fast in 44 I would stay close to start loads. Just because it's close to Unique on the burn table does not mean they are anything alike. They aren't!

Slower powders are better for Mag loads. Less boolit distortion. Less leading. Better accuracy.

All the money I saved on hot Titegroup loads I spent on a Lewis Lead Remover.

No disrespect to those with injuries but I'm going to have to stop working on the truck long before I stop shooting. Crawling under the car, that hurts for days.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Use it or loose it is also true.

I'm 63 and need regular trips to the range if I want to shoot accurately all day. 200 rounds of 260g boolits at 1275 or about 930 ftlbs of muzzle energy is average from a 6" 629. There is no pain that day or the next. 50 1200 ftlb loads from a 4" 44 is all I want but I don't shoot 'till it hurts. I'm 6'2", 180 lbs. I always shoot Mag loads 2 handed.

I remember being beaten up pretty good by less than 50 rounds of factory ammo when I started. Blisters and bleeding at times. I think it was trying to control the recoil. You can't. You can only control for the shot. You let the gun move and recover it after. You learn to avoid much of the recoil. I've no calluses now except the side of both index fingers from cylinder gap blast. I only shoot 44 Mag.

231 gets hot pretty fast in 44 I would stay close to start loads. Just because it's close to Unique on the burn table does not mean they are anything alike. They aren't!

Slower powders are better for Mag loads. Less boolit distortion. Less leading. Better accuracy.

All the money I saved on hot Titegroup loads I spent on a Lewis Lead Remover.

your'e right about the recoil. don't try to hold it back or you will feel the thump. we're not trying to speed shoot with USPSA with 44 mags after all.

you're right about the 231, but I'm not looking for real MAGNUM loads out of it. Just some moderate middle magnum loads. It really all depends on what I can find (local shop has almost everything under the sun thank god) at a reasonable price that meets the middle of the road needs without trying to push a fast powder too hard or trying to download h110 or the like. I just need moderate.

I really love the comment on titegroup. Reminds me of when i first started making custom knives and a buddy was explaining that if you have a single 120 grit scratch on a blade and you're already up to 320 grit just stop and go back down a grit. You'll spend $40 in 320 grit belts trying to do the same thing one good 220 will do. Then you move back up to 320.

[Thumbcocker]

I started shooting at 5 years of age and was shooting competition 22 rifle matches at age 12. I started in high power rifle competition at 16 and Bullseye Pistol matches at 18. I still enjoy shooting as much as I did 67 years ago and have no intention of stopping. As you get older your eyes are not as sharp and you lose some muscle tone, but there are ways to get around that.


You Sir, are an inspiration and a fascinating individual. I look forward to your posts and aspire to keep shooting for as long as I can.

[DLCTEX]

For pleasant shooting with the 44 I shoot the Lee 200 gr. RF over either H110 or 231. Good shooting and less lead and powder consumed.

[randyrat]

10 grains Unique for fun
18 Grains 2400 mid range
21-22 grains H110 for serious business
Using 240 to 310 grain bullets.
You want to wake up, get the blood flowing without coffee, try 21 grains of h110 under 310 grain boolit! Be sure you use a good built revolver.
(Stand up when you shoot these, shooting off sand bags the revolver slams back more) It makes a difference for me due to my arthritis in my wrist, my wrist are not as supple as they once were.

[44man]

If you are talking about flame cutting the top strap on a .44, it does not happen. Slow powders will bead blast the edges of the forcing cone because much is not burned yet. Yet you can expect a good .44 to outlive you.

[Char-Gar]

You Sir, are an inspiration and a fascinating individual. I look forward to your posts and aspire to keep shooting for as long as I can.

I sincerely hope you can continue to shoot for a very long time. It is mostly a DNA thing, but if you hang out with bad people or go where bad people hang out, good DNA won't count for much.

[Taylor]

138198138200

pic on left is 25 yards,50 on right

[Shuz]

If you are talking about flame cutting the top strap on a .44, it does not happen. Slow powders will bead blast the edges of the forcing cone because much is not burned yet. Yet you can expect a good .44 to outlive you.
I have a S&W 329PD .44 mag that I have sent back to the factory twice to have the top strap shield replaced due to gas cutting the small stainless steel(?) insert in the top strap. I shoot this gun a lot, and to minimize the cutting of the top strap shield, I apply J-B Weld occasionally to the flame cut in the shield. My gun hasn't been back to Smith and Wesson now for over 6 years.
Flame or gas cutting the top strap shield on these guns is a common issue that many 329PD users have experienced.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Yeah I agree that flame cutting does happen. I've seen it in plenty of guns. As I understand slower powders and ball powders along with light crimp cause this issue. Supposedly it can be lessened with "faster" powders.
I did see a thread online with a 32X series s&w that had the top strap practical cut in half.
Smith of course replaced the frame. I'm not worried about them not holding up their end. I'm worried that they would have to replace it with a new frame with a lock in it. Eeww.

[Michael J. Spangler]

So I shot some loads over a choro tonight but I didn't get to record the data, because only a few registered due to the bad lighting we had by the time we got to the 44 mag.

I loaded some 19 grains of 2400 and found it very mild. I think it chrono'd around 11 and change.
I also loaded some with 9.7 grains universal and some with 11 grains of unique. The unique doesn't meter very well so I'll be staying away from that. The universal on the other hand metered beautifully.
Next time my friend gets to the range with my I'll make sure to give so chrono results to end this thread.

thanks guys!

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Always enjoyed shooting 44 Mag in an M29 using H&G #503 with 9 grains of 4756. Excellent grouping at 25 yards with light recoil, no leading or fatigue. On occasions I used 23 grains of 4227 (from Dupont tables) for the full performance (treatment) so I am familiar with how it goes. LLS

[Michael J. Spangler]

I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed shooting these loads also. They were very nice and easy shooting. My trigger finger took a little beating because it was all single action. Other than that tiny bit they were great to shoot. I did not accuracy testing other than shooting off hand at 5" rocks on the berm. I dance around them at 50 yards and made some hits.
Lots of fun to be had with this 629

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

9.0 of Power Pistol. Accuracy and plenty of thump for all but hunting.

I am right in that same range 9.5 of power pistol under a 240swc it seemed to work well I need to shoot many more of them and maybe fine tune a bit but it showed promise and was not punishing

power pistol it's like Unique that meters very well. I am using it in 9, 40 ,45 ,44 and even some reduced rifle loads

[44man]

Is this called "flame cutting?" I have a dirty mark that I can't feel with a fingernail.
This gun has 79,000 heavy loads, 240 Hornady bullets with 24 gr of 296 for years and years, then 265 to 330 gr boolits with max loads of 296. I never counted primers for Unique and 231 loads so I don't know.
I owned over the years, 5 29's with hundreds of thousands of loads, all hot from the 429421 with 22 gr of 2400 to the 296 loads. Just a boolit weight limit of 265 gr.
You will not harm a steel frame with a .44.
The funny alloy stuff is different. 138414

[Char-Gar]

Most revolvers will develop a line on the top of the frame behind the barrel cone over time. I have them on my 38 Specials. It means nothing and is not flame cutting or anything that will be a problem.

"Much ado about nothing"...Wm Shakespeare

[sixshot]

The 44 maggie is one of the most versatile guns of all time for every day woods bumming, plinking, hunting, etc. & Unique is one of the most versatile powders for the 44 mag. Lots of others powders work but for a good forgiving powder up to almost mox velocities it works as well as any. I started using both back in the 60's while stationed in Texas & while I've shot a wheel barrow full of 21 grs. of 2400 I'll have to say that 10 grs. of Unique has always been a favored load & I've taken many mule deer with it including my last one using the old classic Keith slug cast from WW alloy.
Again, many powders will work, Unique is as good as it gets, just clean your cylinder from time to time, no need to clean the barrel if you have correct bullet fit & alloy & Unique will make you very happy.

Dick

[44man]

I have to agree with Dick. As long as you stay with 240 to 250 gr, Unique is wonderful and accuracy is great. It is when you start shooting very heavy boolits that you need a more slow burn so you can spin a longer boolit. The heavy boolits will be slower of course but I think spin should be close to the same for all weight boolits, something I never measured, need more chrongraph readings that I lost. Pages missing from my book.
I don't know what to say about alloy frames but the .44 is very easy on a gun. keep the cylinder clean, the pin, ratchet and front bushing lubed and the gun will never wear, mine has no measurable wear, no end play or any other direction. I found plain old STP is the very best. The stuff will cushion against recoil too. You can use RCBS case lube and maybe chain saw bar oil.
Many are too fastidious and clean way too much and then shoot a dry gun. Even your semi should not have dry rails. The lugs on a bolt gun should have lube on them. Gun oil might not be good enough.
Some want to remove the carbon rings on the front of the cylinders, for God's sake---WHY?

[Michael J. Spangler]

I have to agree with Dick. As long as you stay with 240 to 250 gr, Unique is wonderful and accuracy is great. It is when you start shooting very heavy boolits that you need a more slow burn so you can spin a longer boolit. The heavy boolits will be slower of course but I think spin should be close to the same for all weight boolits, something I never measured, need more chrongraph readings that I lost. Pages missing from my book.
I don't know what to say about alloy frames but the .44 is very easy on a gun. keep the cylinder clean, the pin, ratchet and front bushing lubed and the gun will never wear, mine has no measurable wear, no end play or any other direction. I found plain old STP is the very best. The stuff will cushion against recoil too. You can use RCBS case lube and maybe chain saw bar oil.
Many are too fastidious and clean way too much and then shoot a dry gun. Even your semi should not have dry rails. The lugs on a bolt gun should have lube on them. Gun oil might not be good enough.
Some want to remove the carbon rings on the front of the cylinders, for God's sake---WHY?

very good advice. I think I'm going to have to source some H110 soon and see how the coated boolits hold up to it.

[44man]

It is a funny thing about H110, I never got it to shoot with the SBH, SRH or S&W 29's but it was supreme in the RH that hated 296. Hodgden got one burn rate and WW got another. Same exact powder but something did not add up. Now Hodgdon has both but I continue to buy 296. 296 has not varied as much and I don't think lot numbers is the answer. i have never seen different lots of 296 shoot different. I think burn rate is where it is.