Insane finning

[brassrat]

I have a new 6x 200 gr. SWC mold from Lee. The thing shows light, between halves and all the boolets have fins or are stuck together with fins. They were fine, the last time. Is this warping, due to 800* temps? [smilie=b:

[Hannibal]

800 degrees ?!?!? Good Lord, man! WHY on earth are you doing THAT? I have a couple of moulds that I have to run the melt temp up around 740, but 800? That's no good!
Check around your alignment pins and between the mould halves for lead build-up that might be keeping the mould halves apart. It doesn't take much to really foul things up. If you can find nothing keeping the halves apart, you may have to send it back and let Lee try again. But abstain from the 800 degree melt.

[1johnlb]

Check for lead splatter on the mold faces, if not lightly oil the guide pins. This normally takes care of mine.

[brassrat]

I looked and cleaned up any lead bits that might hold the moulds apart and still see a gap. I also lubed everything. This was while casting thou and I still need to look closer, at my bench, with magnifier. I was wondering if aluminum moulds would warp this easily. I do need to regulate the pot better thou. This Lyman 10 gets hot and fast. I am a real newb and hit over 1000* with steel molds, at first attempts.

[Hannibal]

I recently bought all the components and put a PID on my pot. It has made a HUGE difference in not only the quality, but the repeatability of my castings.
You might want to use a straight edge to check your mould halves for warpage. Not a school ruler, but a machinists grade straight edge. If there is nothing holding the mould halves open, warpage is about all there is left in the possibilities department.
You aren't holding an unusually wide gap between your spout and sprue plate, are you? That usually causes problems with overfilled bases, but if your mold is a bit loose between the halves anyway, this might cause finning as well.

[1johnlb]

I seriously doubt that their warped. Check the lining pins to make sure one of them hasn't pulled out slightly. This happened on my 432 200rf. During the heat to cold cycling and back the pins will walk or pull out slightly from the temp difference in the two metals.

How do you know that the mold got to 800?

[Hickory]

I seriously doubt that they're warped.

If he got the aluminum mold to 800° it's warped.

[Dusty Bannister]

If he is gripping all three handles and squeezing, he is caming the mold open. I would also check the pin depth. Given new mold, new caster, and high temps and likely no mold prep before use, the pins might have shifted and need to be reset. Let things cool down, remove the mold from the handles, and really look at how things fit. Understand what points need to be lubricated so that the blocks close easily and fully. Good luck, Dusty

[matrixcs]

So many possibilities.. buggered pins and sockets,warped aluminum ( check with a good straight edge ) , embedded who knows what in the aluminum, dented mold face, loose nut on handles .. I have had them all. It is all part of the "fun"...

[Echo]

The nut that holds the grips is certainly one place to check...:kidding:

[captaint]

Regarding the 800 degree thing - I think you're being impatient in getting your mold up to temp. It does take some time (especially if you don't have a hot plate) to get the mold up to temp. Someone mentioned - you MUST keep your hands off the sprue plate opening handle while casting. That will cause BIG boolits every time - or fins..

[matrixcs]

The nut that holds the grips is certainly one place to check...:kidding:

I have always found my problems were PEBHAC...

[bangerjim]

Buy a hotplate!!!!!!!!!! heats molds fast and will not overheat......if you set the knob on the plate right.

I have NEVER warped an Al mold. But then I have NEVER got one to 800+F either.

As said check for hunks of lead and dirt on the faces, pins and holes. I get fins occasionally and it is always caused by a teeny piece of lead in one of the pin holes. Or a speck of lead on one of the faces. If I see fins, then I can see light, and I know it is time for a quick inspection of everything "moldy".

Watch your temps! Buy a hotplate. You should never go that hot. If you did warp it, time to buy a new one. They are not that expensive.

banger-j

[dragon813gt]

I'm assuming the lead is 800 degrees and not the mold. If you did indeed heat the mold up to 800 then you overshot the target temp by around 400 degrees :eek:

[brassrat]

Well I have read comments and do hold the 3rd handle. Too busy now PCing, loading,sizing, but plan on looking at mould closely for moving pins. This makes sense. My new red ACP boolets look sweet, at least the ones that weren't discarded which was the vast majority. I did try parchment paper today and will not again. The NS foil is kinda failing also. (1st pressing).

[williamwaco]

If he is gripping all three handles and squeezing, he is caming the mold open. I would also check the pin depth. Given new mold, new caster, and high temps and likely no mold prep before use, the pins might have shifted and need to be reset. Let things cool down, remove the mold from the handles, and really look at how things fit. Understand what points need to be lubricated so that the blocks close easily and fully. Good luck, Dusty


Check the mold photos here:

http://reloadingtips.com/pages/missing_tumble_lube_grooves.htm


I am betting one of the guide pins is sticking out a little too far.

[country gent]

Another quick check is to coat one mould face with a dark oil lightly, then close under normall pressure and open see where oil has transfered to other mould face. Check pins for proper depth and fit. look at blocks for burrs and or dings. Watch and check the camming to make sure its not binding or holding pressure. Also check the handles them seves to make sure they alighn properly and are free in movement.

[bangerjim]

Well I have read comments and do hold the 3rd handle. Too busy now PCing, loading,sizing, but plan on looking at mould closely for moving pins. This makes sense. My new red ACP boolets look sweet, at least the ones that weren't discarded which was the vast majority. I did try parchment paper today and will not again. The NS foil is kinda failing also. (1st pressing).


I cannot comment on paper.

I DO know NSAF will give excellent bases 1st time and good the 2nd. After that, there is a lot of base flash that the sizing die may or may not remove without exposing Pb on the sides. Just be sure and READ the loil to insure you have the non-stick side up. Don't ask.

banger

[w5pv]

High spot bluing will help to find the trouble spots,if they are warped and you have a hydrolic press put the two halves together under a few hundred pounds of pressure and let set for a couple of hours. Be sure to use a good straight back up plate or you will can be sure of ruining a set of moulds.

[zuke]

I just got a new LEE 500 gr, pointed in the mail 2 hour's ago. There's aluminum "flashing" on the grease groove's.
Do I return it(again)?

[country gent]

w5pv, most dont have access to the 109 hi spot bluing or how thin a coat of it is actually needed. light oil with a little color to it is easier to get a light coat and see mating contact points in blocks. I have blue red and yellow here. and have used it scraping in machine members. Another is the lack of soaps that will remove it when ( not if) it gets on habds or other places not wnated. Spotting with a dark colored light oil shows where its mating and where its not. If warpped before attempting to straighten you need to find what direction it is warped twisted metals very seldom warp in a straight line, but in a curve or wave shape depending on stress. Just pitting in a press and forcing together may or may not fix it as there will be spring back and other tensions working against it.

[brassrat]

Just finished marathon workout at bench, still no look at mould. Did have wrong side out on NSAF but the other side stuck as bad. I did a few more bakes with just the pie plate and they at least were clean after breaking free. I resized and sanded all bottoms on metal plate. All my moulds are PB and boolets are like knife edges, on bases and close on weight. Worked my #&* off.

[w5pv]

I have fixed the problem of warping a couple of times with aluminum moulds and you are correct in saying to have the correct tools.In a way I miss doing the work I have done but the last was around 1996.I have saw people wear the bluing in their ears until it more or less wore out.lol Been on both ends of that prank.

[brassrat]

Well my mould has no reason to be messed up, I looked well and wacked the blocks together with a rubber mallet, in case anything was loose which they didn't seem to be. A straight edge also shows a tiny cupping on one side. It also slightly rocks on the short axis. It maybe got too hot with my 800* pot. Ima call Lee check out my only 2 casts worth.

http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l542/g5uis23ft5h/th_IMG_0672_zpsxcgd0df5.jpg (http://s1123.photobucket.com/user/g5uis23ft5h/media/IMG_0672_zpsxcgd0df5.jpg.html)

[Dusty Bannister]

It might be a good idea and save some shipping expense if you do try casting with it again and keep your hand off the sprue plate lever. Also, keeping the melt and mold temp under control will help reduce fining. Then if you do have problems, you will have some sample bullets to include with the mold to show the maker the problem. Dusty

[brassrat]

I guess I will try it again and not, death grip, hold the plate handle. Maybe it will warp back again, but I doubt it.

[Goatwhiskers]

One of my RD (Lee) 6-holers was trying to flash on me when new. Used a straight-edge, found that the problem wasn't the pins, rather the mating sockets needed to be set slightly deeper using a punch. Problem solved. GW

[brassrat]

I tried hitting the pins with a small 1/4 dr. socket, both parts and then hit the whole mold again with a rubber hammer, still see sunlight

[brassrat]

I may have forced this mould to behave with my old framing hammer. I used some steel protection.I also did some clamping and sanding, for good measure. I can still see, some light, between the halves, but not with normal grip pressure. Will heat her up soon.

[brassrat]

The mould was working fantastically after complete failure for an extended time. No more flashing thou. I think I messed things up with too much beeswax but suddenly all was well. It wants 800* lead thou. This time I watched to keep it there or lower. This pot runs wicked hot.

[rsrocket1]

I don't mean to be insulting but it looks like maybe your philosophy is "if a certain amount is good, waaaay more is better".

Your coated boolits look well covered, but some have a lot of excess flashing on the bottom. Are you spraying, tumble coating or doing something else? You say the bare pan is clean once the boolits "break free"? How much paint is on the pan/foil/parchment when it goes in the oven?

I tumble coat my boolits and there is very little powder on the parchment paper when it goes into the oven and even though there is powder on the base of the boolits, they tip over and pour off the paper without sticking one bit. The paper may have very small dots of paint that liquefy and ball together, but the droplets are about he size of a pencil dot at most.

You should also look closely at the edges of the boolit cavity of the mold. Some times there is machine flashing that could prevent the mold from closing.
138269

[brassrat]

The mould is better than ever now. My toaster oven gets set at 400* for around 12 min. Everything is sticking but the coating is good and a sanding step is no big deal and gives very sharp edges. I tumble them and the first few tries were in reg. oven and they didn't stick with three foil uses. I may try different times or temps.

[John Boy]

Brassrat, give this a try ... in a padded vice, put the mold in and give it a hard squeeze. If the daylight disappears, your back in business. If not, the high temp has probably caused the mold to warp.
With aluminum molds, I cast between 690 and 710

[brassrat]

The mould is better than new cause its getting a nice patina, no more fins

[brassrat]

I looked at all my boolets, maybe 300 or so, and will be remelting, all, but 50. Not filled out properly. Good thing I got tin, if needed, and scored 10lbs more, yesterday. Bad news is I can't melt these nice pieces lol.

[Beagle333]

Put em in a pillow case and run over it a couple of times. The feeling of wanting to collect them instead of cast them will pass quickly. 8-)

[Maximumbob54]

Are you using a thermometer in your melt to verify temperatures? I routinely cast a 750ish in all my Lee molds. I used to add tin and it was costing way too much. I noticed that when I preheat the molds on a hot plate instead of setting them over the pot and when I added the heat that combo made fill-out in the molds perfect. The key though isn't just hotter lead, it's the mold being at a better temp. You don't need the mold to be 750, but it does need to be pretty darn hot. The tip I followed was if you dip the corner of an aluminum mold into the lead and the lead cleanly falls free and doesn't stick then it's probably close to the perfect temp. If it sticks then it's too cold still.

[retread]

I cannot comment on paper.

I DO know NSAF will give excellent bases 1st time and good the 2nd. After that, there is a lot of base flash that the sizing die may or may not remove without exposing Pb on the sides. Just be sure and READ the loil to insure you have the non-stick side up. Don't ask.

banger

Don't ask me either.

[brassrat]

I check temps with a thermometer, every few minutes and have a better feel of where the dial should be. I will be going more to 780 or so. I think I have a problem with fluxing and after getting running again, I had all kinds of dirt? tin? on top and just ignored it. It looked like clean stuff came out of the dipper thou. Yes, I stir BW and SD in but don't see any changes except more dust.

[leadman]

You should flux the pot before casting and when adding more lead to the pot at a minimum. Even with good fluxing the pot will eventually need to be drained and cleaned. When you do this hold the pour valve open with something when the pot is empty so when the pot is cool the valve area can be cleaned also.
Are you measuring the temperature of the alloy in the pot or the mold temperature?
Best practice is to leave your hands off the sprue plate handle when casting as even a little pressure will try to open the mold. Also any stray alloy the gets on the sides of the mold by the pivot pins can bind the mold so keep these clean and lubed.

[brassrat]

There is no more finning but I can't get a good looking boolet out of it. They get base fill out, but little, squiggly lines, are everywhere making me recast 100%.

[Dusty Bannister]

What did you clean the mold cavities with? What did you use to lube the pins and bolts?

[brassrat]

I cleaned everything again with brake cleaner and I lube the pins and spru-plate with beeswax which spreads, all over

[Hannibal]

When it comes to pin and sprue plate lube, my experience has been a lil' dab is almost too much. I keep cotton swabs and a little bottle of 2-cycle oil in my casting area. I put just a little on the swab and apply it VERY sparingly to the pins and top of the mould, and only once in a great while. Whatever lube works for you is fine, just don't over-do it. Based upon what you have stated here, it sounds like you are suffering the effects of mould cavity contamination, but it's hard to diagnose trouble from afar. If you are still running your melt close to 750-800 degrees, I'm thinking mould temperature is likely not an issue, unless you are REALLY dawdling around. Wish I were close so I could drop in and watch your methods.

Hope this helps.

[leadman]

I too agree it is lube getting in the cavities. Use a Q-tip and put a couple drops of 2 stroke oil on it, then lightly touch it to the pins. A tooth pick can be used to lube the sprue plate pivot. Use the Q-tip to lube a hot mold with boolits in the cavities on the underside of the sprue plate.
Clean the mold, lube the pins & sprue plate pivot, and smoke the cavities. heat it up and cast with it then lube the bottom of the sprue plate as mentioned. If the boolits are still wrinkled stick the corner of the mold in the hot alloy. When the oil starts smoking take it out and let it cool some and then cast. A second smoking might be necessay, the carbon is a great oil absorber.

[brassrat]

Thanks for the tips. Wrinkled boolets, that's the term I have seen mentioned. I scrubbed the mould, well, in the sink, with Dawn.

[brassrat]

Boolets are 95% perfect very little to no lube anymore thanks for all help