NYPD Revolver Question

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm looking for a good reference book that covers NYPD revolvers from the late 1970's up to the transition to pistols in the early 1990's.

In the meantime, can someone answer the question about the NYPD adoption of DAO revolvers and stainless steel ?
All NYPD revolvers were 38 Special (unless we go way back in time) and traditional SA/DA actions were the norm until the switch to DAO revolvers sometime in the late 1980's.
1986 seems to be the year that stainless steel guns were permitted. Recruits were allowed to select a stainless steel revolver (S&W model 64 or Ruger Service Six and later the Ruger GPNY) and current officers were grandfathered in and could keep whatever gun they had qualified with.

The question is, "When did DAO revolvers become the issued gun"?
Were there ever any stainless NYPD revolvers that had conventional SA/DA actions or were all of the stainless revolvers DAO?

[SteveS]

The Model 64 NY-1's were available from 1987 thru 1993, when they were replaced by the 9mm automatics

This link might or might not help. I hope it does.

http://www.vivasandson.com/co-nycpdm642rb.html

[Petrol & Powder]

Thanks, interesting but not quite what I'm looking for.

[Outpost75]

When I went through Ruger Armorer's School in 1985, the DAO parts kit was available as a retrofit item for Service Six, Speed Six and Security Six revolvers, and could be purchased on department letterhead, but was not generally sold to the gunsmith trade or for commercial sales. A few gunsmiths of national reputation who built PPC match guns, such as Jim Clark, Bill Davis, Ron Power, and other members of the pistolsmith's guild who were factory-trained and had a police connection either through current service, retirement, or current contracts for servicing of department revolvers, were able to purchase the parts.

There is no cutover date to DAO, it was an option which could be specified on department contract orders and the parts kits were sold to police departments for armorer retrofit.

Both types of actions went through the line at the same time while I was there, depending upon the customer. I don't know what NYPD was buying, but U.S. Customs Service was buying Stainless DAO, while Postal Inspection Service, which received guns on the same contract of the same model and type, got blued and stainless SA-DA. Border Patrol got a mix of the same guns in .357.

School guns sent to FLETC were DAO after about July 1985.

One of the nicer variations was a 5" fixed sight, DAO round butt stainless .38 Special Speed Six with lanyard loop made for RCMP maritime units.

[Petrol & Powder]

Based on internet lore.....The NYPD approved stainless steel guns in 1986 and it appears that somewhere about that same time the guns that were issued to new recurits were DAO models. There was clearly a long time when the guns in service were a mix of blued revolvers with SA/DA actions and stainless revolvers with DAO actions. I've never seen a confirmed NYPD revolver that was stainless and had a SA/DA action but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Outpost75]

NYPD was big on everyone carrying blued steel revolvers partly as Identify Friend or Foe. Federal agents whoaccompanied NYPD on raids in that era were discouraged from carrying stainless or nickle plated guns because it might attract friendly fire.

Frank Magee told me that, "only crooks and cowboys carry shiny guns!"

[357Mag]

Petrol & Powder -

Howdy !

Just to be sure...... are you talking New York City, and not New York State ?


Regards,
357Mag

[Petrol & Powder]

New York City Police Department.
They only carried 38 Specials and towards the end of the revolver days they only issued DAO revolvers.
They relented and transisitioned to stainless steel towards the end on the revolver days but I'm not sure if there was ever any overlap between stainless steel and SA/DA actions.

[Speedo66]

In 1972 Detective Wm. Capers of the NYPD was on plainclothes duty and had a suspect at gunpoint. He was shot from behind by a uniformed officer, who later excused his shooting by saying he didn't think Capers was a PO because he had a nickeled revolver. There was no prohibition on nickeled guns at the time, and it wasn't uncommon on the force. Some thought Capers was shot because he was black, and the other officer didn't think he was a cop.

I seem to remember white guns being banned at that time. Many LE agencies working in NYC around that period, mine included, started doing training on standardization of challenging and identifying yourself. Saw lots of training movies on the subject of LEO's being shot by friendly fire, with shoot-don't shoot scenarios.

Probably why it was a big deal if stainless guns were re-allowed. I guess enough time had passed.

[Petrol & Powder]

Speedo66 - I'm familiar with the reasoning behind NYPD's long prohibition on "shiny guns", despite how little logic went into that prohibition.

The advantages of stainless steel over blued steel for a duty gun finally won out over the "no shiny gun" argument in the mid 1980's but that only lasted until the semi-auto pistols replaced the revolvers.

[Combat Diver]

During the early 90s I purchased a Smith Model 64 3" HB, RB, DAO NY-1 overrun in Kentucky. Great shooting pistol.


CD

[bouncer50]

The reason for the DAO only was cop accident in the locker rooms of discharge that every locker room had bullet holes in it and some cops got shot too. Another was on the street putting a cockgun back in the holster.

[Petrol & Powder]

YEP, know why they were slow to allow stainless steel and some of the reasoning behind the issuing DAO revolvers.
My question is -"In the NYPD, In the late 1980's, Was there a time BETWEEN the adoption of stainless steel revolvers AND the adoption of DAO revolvers"?
Or, in other words, Did the NYPD ever issue any stainless steel revolvers that were NOT DAO?

[Petrol & Powder]

NYPD recruits paid for their own duty guns back in the revolver days but there was a very limited selection of approved guns. Towards the end of the revolver era a recruit could choose a Ruger Police Service-Six chambered in 38 Special or a S&W model 64 converted to DAO known as a NY-1 and near the very end of the revolvers, the Ruger DAO 38 Special GPNY replaced the Service-Six. I think 1986 was the first year for stainless steel revolvers and 1992 (maybe 1993?) was the last year for revolvers period. That's only a span of 7 years and all of the stainless steel NYPD revolvers that I've come across have been DAO models.

[Petrol & Powder]

"Or, in other words, Did the NYPD ever issue any stainless steel revolvers that were NOT DAO? "

There must be someone that knows the answer???

[Wayne Dobbs]

P & P,

The stainless guns were all DAOs and none were issued. As I think have been listed, there were S&W 64 (various NY-1 guns), Ruger SPNYs and GPNYs.

NYPD's Equipment Section purchased those service revolvers and then sold them to officers on a payroll deduction plan. They've never issued a duty gun.

[Petrol & Powder]

P & P,

The stainless guns were all DAOs and none were issued. As I think have been listed, there were S&W 64 (various NY-1 guns), Ruger SPNYs and GPNYs.

NYPD's Equipment Section purchased those service revolvers and then sold them to officers on a payroll deduction plan. They've never issued a duty gun.

10-4, back in the revolver days NYPD "sold" guns to recruits. Technically the police department was a distribution center that handled the transfer. (manufacturer to NYPD and then to officer). The gun became the officer's property, so it is correct that no revolvers were "issued" to officers.

I've never seen an authenic stainless NYPD revolver that wasn't DAO, so it seems likely that the DAO requirement came along in 1986 when they transitioned to stainless steel. Sometime around 1990ish, the stainless steel finish changed to a frosted look. All of the GPNY's and SPNY's that I've seen were the frosted [dull stainless] but the eariler Service-Six's and NY-1's were bright stainless.