Uberti Old West .45 Colt Light Primer Strikes

[DougGuy]

Took this ol' girl out today and shot her for the first time since I have owned it. Used 454190 with SPG lube over 8.5gr Herco. It shot fairly well, a little below the sights, with absolutely zero leading, a couple of cases were plenty sooty on the outside but I was using this as a starting load, I can ease on up on the powder now to 9.0gr. Velocity seemed to be 780f/s to 850f/s so I haven't found the load yet that it likes but I will get there.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/DSC03760crop768_zpsxo4wirjx.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/DSC03760crop768_zpsxo4wirjx.jpg.html)

It has a nice trigger that isn't stiff, and I wondered if maybe it was a little too nice, and I got a few light primer strikes and fail to fire. Does it sound like I need to replace the hammer spring? This gun is factory stock as far as I know, other than me cutting the forcing cone to 11° which seemed to do pretty good.

[Piedmont]

You should take the grip off and see if someone used the old trick of putting a pad of leather at the base of the spring. If they did, take out the leather and it will probably work fine.

I bought an Evil Roy Cimarron last summer that was doing the same thing. Those were gunsmithed by Cimarron and they obviously gunsmithed out the reliability. However, dealing with them was painless. They sent a new spring at no charge.

If I am remembering right you don't have to take off the entire grip assembly. Take out the bottom screw and then the three screws around the trigger and you can get at what you need.

[ejcrist]

Just curious but what brand primer are you using? If it's CCI I'd try Federal instead. Like Piedmont said, I'd check the spring first but if all is in order and you are using CCI primers I'd try one of the other brands. I have a Model 14 that had never been fired when I bought it, and I loaded some starting loads with CCI primers and got about a 30% failure to fire rate. I switched to Federal and haven't had a single failure since. I've read CCI primers have the thickest cups of all. If that doesn't work, a hammer spring replacement would be the next step.

[DougGuy]

WLP primers, stock spring no tricks or mods afaik.

[w5pv]

I use 10.2 grains of HS6 under a Lee 255 grain RFN,shoots great in my Uberti,can go higher in the charge but I didn't like the recoil and dropped it to 10.2.I use this load in my Rossi 92 and revolver.

[44man]

NO, don't change primers for ignition. You NEED primer impact. Every single SA I own has over power springs for the hammer. Even Fed primers need struck and I have used them forever but a weak hammer spring will ruin accuracy right quick. I changed springs every year, bought them by the dozen. I went to Wolfe springs, 26# for Rugers and BFR's but for rifle primers you need 28#.
Guys fool with leaf springs and lose. Get a new one.

[Piedmont]

After thinking this over I think I gave the wrong advice. I think you take off the back half of the grip assembly to get proper access. You only have to take off half whichever way it is. The bottom screw needs to come out too. I also think it should go bang with any primer you might select.

ejcrist, If your strain screw is all the way tight you can take a fired primer cup without the anvil and put it on the tip (other end than where the screwdriver goes) of that strain screw to give some more tension to the hammer spring and make it go bang with any primer.

[44man]

I don't know if the Uberti has a strain screw. Should be more like a Colt then a S&W. But guys would de-arc a spring for a lighter trigger. Wrong! nothing to do with trigger pull at all.
I wish guys would stay away from hammer springs.

[Char-Gar]

The Uberti clone has no strain screw, but is a straight Colt SAA clone in this regard. The spring should be stout enough to give a good strong ignition with any primers. I should think it is time to replace the spring. That is a cheap fix.

Your handgun probably has charge hole throats that run large in the .456 - 458 range. This is one place where tumble lube works well on an unsized but large bullet. As a general principal I am not a fan of tumble lube but on my old Colts and large Dago clones this is what I use. I favor 6.5 grains of Bullseye over 454190.

[bedbugbilly]

Doug - I may be full of prunes but it's another thing to check - does that have a BP frame or a later frame? Before messing with the springs, you might check the cylinder pin to make sure that it isn't interfering with your hammer drop. My Uberti Bisley is the later frame with the spring loaded (not the BP frame screw) cylinder pin latch and I know that when new, it's tight and sticky. If not in the exact spot it needs to be, the tip of the cylinder pin (which acts as a safety when fulling in) can cause the hammer not to drop all the way. Worth a quick check before getting in to it too deep.

[Tar Heel]

Doug, Seems to be a hammer spring but do check to be sure the primers are centered when struck. I had one with a burr on the recoil shield that was causing dragging and off-center strikes. With harder primers this may result in misfires. Look for scoring on the base of the cartridges where the burr marks them. It's probably a weak spring and having a spare is a good thing anyway..

[DougGuy]

Thanks.. All advice taken. I did call Uberti and they explained to me that they didn't actually import this particular gun but had they, they would be sending me out a new mainspring free of charge. They did however give me the phone numbers of Taylor, Cimarron, and a place called VTI gun parts, who may have been the actual importer. Needless to say, you sorta need to find out which specific variety of Uberti you have, since there were quite a few importers, and either go through them, or order parts from them.

The lady at VTI told me that this gun had been imported by a company that was a venture of Maria Uberti, and that the company that imported it went out of business 12 or 13 years ago, and she sold me a standard power mainspring and said that it would go out in tomorrow's mail.

I did notice one considerably off center primer strike, so possibly the cylinder was not locked up properly? The frame on this on has the BP type screw and the shorter cylinder pin that doesn't protrude through the frame like the push pin models. It is actually recessed into the hole in the frame so it is not providing any interference.

This gun DOES have a hammer mounted safety, which if you pull the hammer back 1/8" it engages and blocks the hammer from forward travel, effectively preventing the firing pin from protruding from the hole in the frame far enough to come in contact with a primer. I haven't yet figured out how this safety works, and I guess it might be possible for it to be randomly interfering with the hammer travel? It would seem that if it was interfering, it would catch the hammer and stop it from even engaging the primer but that's not the case and there doesn't seem to be any half on or half off for this safety, it either blocks the hammer or it doesn't, so I don't think it's part of the problem.

I never had an old Colt that had a trigger as nice as this one, and I suspected that the spring might cause the exact problem being as weak as it seemed to be. The gun also didn't want to shoot very consistently across the chrony either, and I weighed every charge and was meticulous about assembling the ammo, so maybe inconsistent primer strikes could be the cause of the variation in velocity because I sure don't think it was the loads I put up, not with the attention to detail they got.

I asked the lady at VTI about the antique finish on this gun, and she said they did that with some kind of cyanide wash, and that it could maybe be rubbed off, I dunno. I like the finish, it looks a whole lot more authentic than Ruger's faux CC finish.

So.. New mainspring, and bump up the charge of Herco to 9.0gr and shoot it again..

The sights are a bit odd on this one, they went to all the trouble to faithfully copy EVERY single detail they could from a genuine 1873 Colt SAA, and they copied the "pinched frame" right down to the gnat's a$$ but they put a thick front sight blade on which makes aimed fire rather difficult, and near impossible in direct sunlight. I have heard more than once that genuine Colt parts will interchange with all the internals of this gun. Maybe I need a genuine Colt mainspring?

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[Piedmont]

Doug, The age of that revolver explains the large cylinder throats. Mine made a year or so ago in .45 Colt is somewhere in the .452-.453" range.

That is an attractive revolver and I especially like those one piece grips.

[44man]

Many lightened trigger springs too much or stoned the sear surfaces. Can't do that on a Colt. Hammer drop can hit the safety notch or half cock edge and many old timers broke triggers.

[bedbugbilly]

Piedmot - I surely agree with you on that being a nice looking revolver - it looks like it would feel like butter in your hands!

[Tar Heel]

Doug....the recoil shield burr looked like this on the brass. Off center strikes and dragging on most brass.

137807 137808 137809

[DougGuy]

I had one that was almost the same amount off center, but no burrs or scraping.

I actually don't mind the large cylinder throats, SilverJackHammer hooked me up with some sample boolits 454190 sized .456" that fit in the throats very nicely with just a bit of drag. He lubed them with SPG and they worked great. Shot pretty good aside from the light primer strikes.

When they set out to copy an 1873 Colt in every detail, they even copied the cylinder throats too and I kinda like that, this is as close you will come to a late 19th century Colt SAA revolver. I owned a real Colt that looked just liek this one, all patina, made in 1902, tight as a brand new gun too! Wish I would have kept that one.. I think that's why I like this one so much, and yeah it feels like butter in the hands..

[brassrat]

I have a 1st gen Uberti .357 from 1960 or so. The thing needed work and after replacing the springs, it misfired. The new mainspring was just not strong enough. I guess it is made to be lighter. The old spring works fine.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I only buy genuine Colt's springs for my Colt's single actions. My favorite Colt mainspring has Brownell's number 160-211-000 and SP50982.

Colt has varied down through the years what they offer as mainsprings but there are basically three (3) different types. My favorite spring is the one I call the cobra, the shaft of the body of the spring is thinner than the head where the slot is that rides in the hammer roller and where hole is for the screw that holds the spring on the grip frame.

Colt offers at times a mainspring that has a long hole that runs the length of the center of the mainspring.

Then Colt also offers their standard mainspring.

IMO the standard mainspring is too heavy, the hollowed out mainspring is too light, and the cobra is just right.

Genuine Colt parts are often not available so stock up when the getting is good, usually around February - April.

Don't let "gunsmiths" file or sand down your springs.

[DougGuy]

Silver Jack Hammer, Brownell's number 160-211-000 is the "cobra" spring? Or is the 160-211-000 a stiff standard spring?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Did you look at the image on Brownells website? I took the number off the parts I have in my parts kit for SAA's. I have 3 Colt SA cobra mainsprings unopened in the Brownell's shipping baggies, I gave you the Brownell's number off the baggies. The image for that number shows a standard mainspring. I'd chat with a Brownells rep and make sure they understand what you are ordering, even then sometimes you won't know what you get when you place an order until you get it.

[DougGuy]

VTI sent a new mainspring today. It has no narrowing of the metal strip aside from the normal taper from the bottom to the top. The factory spring is narrowed considerably, and resembles the "cobra" spring you are describing. I installed the new one and it is marginally stronger than the factory spring, not by much. Will see how it does next range session.

Also will up the charge of Herco to 9.0gr and 9.5gr and chrony these loads.

[doc1876]

If this doesn't help, I have access to several SAA guys. Let me know & I can send links from home.