Swaged bullet setback

[andyt53]

This is half reloading related and half swaging related. So I recently decided to check for bullet setback by pressing down on the bench with a seated bullet. The bullets used were 40 cal swaged from 9mm brass. The projectile seated an average of .032" into the case after testing. I have been shooting these for a while with no ill effects.

I'm just worried about one being set back enough to be a problem when I pull the trigger. I'm loading these on my LNL AP using Hornady dies. I am hsing the seating die to also crimp. I tried different crimp setups, also tried very little to no flare in the case before seating to see if I can stop the setback. So far nothing has made me feel confident. I tested 20 rounds last night. Out of the 20, only 3 of them set back less than .010".

Is this an issue with my particular bullets, dies or am I just overlooking something? Did/does anybody else experince this? Should I look into getting an undersized 40 S&W sizing die and a factory crimp die to help keep things in place? Also, none of my cast or jackets bullets in the 40 S&W flavor do this. And my swaged bullets measure in at .400" on the dot.

Sorry for the long post by the way, and thank you all for a great forum!

[Wolftracker]

Are you using a taper crimp die?

[midnight]

Try putting a cannelure on your swaged bullet and crimp to that. CH4D sells the tool at a reasonable price. Dave Corbin sells one too but the best of them all is the tool Chuckbuster sell right here on this site. You can also cannelure the cartridge case at the point where the base of the bullet would be. That should eliminate the bullet setback you are experiencing.

Bob

[Bonz]

Even though I run all my brass thru my CasePro Rollsizer, I still push all my .40 S&W brass thru my Redding G-RX Carbide Base Sizing Die Kit for .40 S&W

I have witnessed a shooter blow up a FN .40 S&W pistol in the lane next to mine. We looked at the remaining rounds in the magazine and could see that the lead cast projectiles were seated way too deep. We looked at some of his other reloads and the length looked fine but the projectile pushed into the brass case when I put some pressure on it. He thought that the full length sizing die would take care of anything.

[andyt53]

Are you using a taper crimp die?

I am using the Hornady Series 2, 3 die set item number 546533, which appears to not be a taper crimp. Their same set, item number ending in 34, includes the taper crimp seating die. Should I just get a taper crimp die and try that? I really don't want to drop the cash for a cannelure tool just for this, unless I have no choice.

[fredj338]

I've had a couple of 223 setback, probably slightly undersized, I don't measure all of them. Uniformity is the issue. I am sure one undersized bullet will slip by. It doesn't take much.

[runfiverun]

turn the cases that let the boolits slip over.

[andyt53]

turn the cases that let the boolits slip over.

I may just be tired, but I'm not understanding what you are saying.

[runfiverun]

read the head stamp.

[andyt53]

This setback is happening with pretty much every headstamp I have for 40 S&W. CBC, R-P, Win, Fed, Speer, Fiocchi, GFL, Blazer, PPU and PMC. They set back on every headstamp with the occasional few that do not. I played with the crimping function of my seating die and it seemed to help a little. I think I'm in need of a proper taper crimp die since this particular Hornady die does not taper crimp. I may as well also buy an undersized sizing die to just play with it and see where that goes.

[Prospector Howard]

I think you already know the answer (what midnight said). You really need a cannelure tool to make sure you don't get setback. Semi autos are the most likely firearm (obviously) that will get you in trouble. I swage 44's from .40 brass and have a good sizer die and taper crimp, but I don't shoot full house loads and only shoot them in a revolver and lever action. So far that has worked fine and I haven't seen any setback. That's kind of why I never felt like swaging .40 from 9mm cases. I knew I would have to buy a cannelure tool, or make one. There's only so much pressure you can put on the case when taper crimping before you buckle the case. This is one thing that the die makers probably should disclose when selling dies. If you're going to shoot semi autos with swaged bullets, (especially pistol) then you should buy a cannelure tool. You really don't need to worry about it with the .223's though. The Lee factory crimp die will crimp the bullet in place without a cannelure if you shoot them in a semi auto. I don't bother crimping them for bolt action rifles. The sizing dies I use put plenty of neck tension to keep them in place.

[andyt53]

I can always attempt to make a cannelure tool before spending money on one. But what about using an undersized sizer? Would that not increase my neck tension allowing for a more snug hold on the bullet? Enough to prevent the setback I'm experiencing at least.

[runfiverun]

that could work.
I swap sizers between LEE and Dillon when I swap bullets from cast to jacketed.

[andyt53]

Just ordered a LEE undersized 40 S&W sizing die. Hopefully this cures my problem.

[DukeInFlorida]

Actually, the solution might be as simple as a LEE "Factory Crimp Die"...

I use one for every size swaged bullet I load. It can be adjusted to make a stout crimp, even without a cannelure, on your .40 S&W cartridges.

I learned the lesson with 357 Sig, which is a .40 case, necked down to load a 9mm bullet. They are notorious for bullet setback. The short case neck (they are very much like a rifle style necked case) doesn;t grab the bullet very well. I can adjust the Lee factory crimp die just enough so that bullet set back is zero. And, not cut through the bullet jacket (even with practice plated or jacketed bullets, and for my carry ammo.)

The Lee FCD's are under $20.

[andyt53]

Actually, the solution might be as simple as a LEE "Factory Crimp Die"...

I use one for every size swaged bullet I load. It can be adjusted to make a stout crimp, even without a cannelure, on your .40 S&W cartridges.

I learned the lesson with 357 Sig, which is a .40 case, necked down to load a 9mm bullet. They are notorious for bullet setback. The short case neck (they are very much like a rifle style necked case) doesn;t grab the bullet very well. I can adjust the Lee factory crimp die just enough so that bullet set back is zero. And, not cut through the bullet jacket (even with practice plated or jacketed bullets, and for my carry ammo.)

The Lee FCD's are under $20.

I guess I'm going to run to my local reloading shop and pick up a Lee FCD and give that a shot while waiting for my undersized die to arrive. I know my local place stocks the FCD, but they dont stock undersized sizing dies.

Thanks for the help guys. I will update with results.

[aaronraad]

How does the bullet sealant perform?

I see there is a specific bullet sealant equivalent to the primer sealant I've seen typically used. Might be just enough to increase the static friction without increasing the dynamic friction all the way along the bearing surface seated in the case?

No idea, just a thought. Anyone with any experience using bullet sealants for a similar purpose not just moisture ingress?

[Prospector Howard]

If I'm not mistaken, the Lee Factory Crimp die for the .357 Sig operates the same way as the Rifle Lee Factory Crimp dies for rifle bottle neck cartridges. The ones for straight wall pistol cases don't work the same way. I'm not saying it won't help, but they are two different type dies that don't operate the same way. That's why I mentioned that you don't really have to have a cannelure on rifle bullets like the .223, because of the way that type of Lee die works for them.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/892254/lee-factory-crimp-die-357-sig

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/289675/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-40-s-and-w-10mm-auto?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[xman777]

Try sizing the cases with an undersized die like the EGW. Don't bell too much if filling powder on a progressive press. You'll find that seating takes a bit more oomph but the bullets will be tight. It could be a possible 20 dollar solution to your problem.

[andyt53]

Update:

My Lee undersized die came in today. So I ran 15 cases thru the undersized die. Flared them enought to easily accept my bullets then crimped with my seating die (only enough to take the flare out). I then put as much downward pressure as I could on the dummy rounds to check for setback. No setback was present.

I then loaded the dummies into a magazine then cycled them 5 times each. Again, no setback besides one that was .001" shorter. I can easily live with that! Also plunk checked them, they all rotated and fell from the chamber easily. So in other words, I'm good to go!!!!

Thank you guys for the help!

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Glad you got it figured out Andy!

[Gunnut 45/454]

I don't have that problem as I can feel if I have the correct neck tension when I seat my swags on my single stage press. If your making your bullets correctly - IE check them after swaging to ensure correct diameter is achieved. I learned this very quickly in the first 50 made. Not enough pressure while point forming meaning the bullet not formed correctly -diameter to small- just a couple thousands of but enough to matter.

[andyt53]

I don't have that problem as I can feel if I have the correct neck tension when I seat my swags on my single stage press. If your making your bullets correctly - IE check them after swaging to ensure correct diameter is achieved. I learned this very quickly in the first 50 made. Not enough pressure while point forming meaning the bullet not formed correctly -diameter to small- just a couple thousands of but enough to matter.

I am making my bullets correctly, they all measure in at .400". I checked a vast majority of them. My problem was my Hornady sizing die, it was out of spec.

[xman777]

A lot of people don't even know about undersizing but it has saved many problems for me since I started making boolits and swaging. I've fired thousands of rounds through EGW dies so for me it works. Added bonus which may only be perceived is the brass lasts a couple firings longer. End of story.