What is ".30 USA" caliber?

[rondog]

Wasn't sure where to ask this, so here I am.....

Picked up a large assortment of misc. old ammo a couple years ago, some old feller's collection. Nothing I'm going to actually shoot, just looking to fatten my own cartridge collection.

In this mess, there's 14 rounds of "REM-UMC .30 USA". Rifle rounds, rimmed cases, about halfway between .30-30 and .30-06 length-wise.

Anybody know what these are? Is this caliber known by another name? These look to be original, not reloads, in good shape. Never heard of .30 USA.

[Grendl]

Commonly known as 30-40 Krag

[MtGun44]

Yep, .30 US, .30 Government, .30 USA. = nowdays .30-40 Krag.

[Artful]

.30 United States Army
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/253254/8854148/acf2c48.jpg
.30 USG - United States Government
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p99/racerguy00/Mobile%20Uploads/2013-06-28_182655-1_zps492b8d1c.jpg (http://s126.photobucket.com/user/racerguy00/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2013-06-28_182655-1_zps492b8d1c.jpg.html)
30-40 Krag
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/253254/8854145/acf9930.jpg

Frankford Arsenal production
http://cosmic.deanoid.net/CottnwdBsn2000/Headstamp.JPG
1900 I think

[M-Tecs]

Yep, .30 US, .30 Government, .30 USA. = nowdays .30-40 Krag.

The 30 Government is the 30-03 however Winchester stamped their Model 70's 30-06 30 Gov't until the late 40's maybe later. Mine is a 1949.

[rondog]

Ah, mystery solved, I knew y'all would come through! I wondered if they might be .30-40 Krag, but had never seen any before.

Thanks! Got a lot of cool old rounds in this mess, and a lot of salvageable handloads to break down, it was a pretty big haul. Traded some 9mm Luger brass for it. There was a buttload of 8mm Mauser that's already been passed on to Swamp.

[rondog]

Oh, these all have lead-nosed jacketed hunting bullets, so most likely reloads after all. Unless Rem-Umc made hunting ammo for this.

[MtGun44]

HMM. Never saw a .30-Govt that was a .30-06. Learn something every day
if you pay attention.

[Cmm_3940]

HMM. Never saw a .30-Govt that was a .30-06. Learn something every day
if you pay attention.

My Winchester 54 is stamped .30GOV'T'06.

[Bent Ramrod]

The cartridges I see marked ".30 Gov't" are generally .30-06. The Krag round was called the .30 Army or 30 U.S., often headstamped .30 USA by the early commercial manufacturers.

Commercial rounds of that vintage would generally be loaded with 180 or 220-gr soft nose hunting bullets. Only rarely would you come across a full-metal patch military-type bullet in such loadings.

[Flyperk]

Is that the same as “30 American”?

[Barry54]

Is that the same as “30 American”?

My 30 American brass is small primer pocket 30-30 brass. Let me know if you want to sell it someday...

[Kai]

As an example on a Winchester 1895.

323684

[ulav8r]

30 Gov. = 30-40 Krag.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I've mostly seen .30/40 Krag called .30 Army as that was the military branch that adopted it. The Navy and Marines adopted the 6mm Lee about the same time.

[stubshaft]

My 30 American brass is small primer pocket 30-30 brass. Let me know if you want to sell it someday...

I've been looking for some more for YEARS!

[stubshaft]

My 30 American brass is small primer pocket 30-30 brass. Let me know if you want to sell it someday...

I've been looking for some more for YEARS!

[Texas by God]

If you dig the guts out of a fired LR primer and flatten out the firing pin dent- you can seat a SR or SP primer inside of the LR hull.
Then load the cartridge as usual.
It worked when I tried it. YMMV!


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[waksupi]

If you dig the guts out of a fired LR primer and flatten out the firing pin dent- you can seat a SR or SP primer inside of the LR hull.
Then load the cartridge as usual.
It worked when I tried it. YMMV!


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Very interesting, and a good trick to have in the hat.

[Rich/WIS]

Rem, Peters, WRA all loaded soft point hunting ammo for the Krag. Following WWI most of the Krags were sold off cheap and were commonly used for hunting. Some, like the carbines, were used as is and many of the rifles were were cut down to make them more user friendly. Even in the 50's and 60's knew older fellas who still shot their deer with one. If you can't use the brass or ammo throw it up in the S&S section, pretty sure it won't last long as Krag ammo and brass is once again thin on the ground. With its moderate case capacity and long neck it is a great cast bullet cartridge and loaded to full power still an excellent hunting round.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Loaded some Krag ammo yesterday! 200 gr. Poly Tip/34.5 gr. IMR 4895.

323757

DG

[Bmi48219]

If you dig the guts out of a fired LR primer and flatten out the firing pin dent- you can seat a SR or SP primer inside of the LR hull……Then load the cartridge as usual.
It worked when I tried it…..

Will the same process work putting a SPP into a LPP cup? What I’d really like to know is what motivated you to try it in the first place?

[Texas by God]

I read about it here on CB a few years ago.
I’ll try SP in LP but they may sit proud in LP pockets.
Someday I’ll start taking notes. A few years ago would have been a good time to start….

Up date; I snuck out and tried a Fiocchi SPP in a LR primer body. It seated a little proud but the bolt closed with a firm push. I laid a paper towel over an empty coffee container and fired into that. Worked in the Stevens 200 .243 like a normal primer.
SO- I deprimed a .45 acp case, gutted and punched it, and seated it in the .243 case with the SPP in the LPP body. This time the primer was flush and the bolt closed easily.
Fire Two was successful as well!
I think I’ll load a few as regular loads and see what’s what…..
And take notes.[emoji106]


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[Bmi48219]

…..Up date; I snuck out and tried a Fiocchi SPP in a LR primer body. It seated a little proud but the bolt closed with a firm push. I laid a paper towel over an empty coffee container and fired into that. Worked in the Stevens 200 .243 like a normal primer.
SO- I deprimed a .45 acp case, gutted and punched it, and seated it in the .243 case with the SPP in the LPP body. This time the primer was flush and the bolt closed easily.
Fire Two was successful as well!
I think I’ll load a few as regular loads and see what’s what…..
And take notes.[emoji106]..

TbG, I commend and appreciate your efforts.
So if I understand, an SPP in a LR cup worked without issue priming a 243 rifle case.
And an SPP in a LPP cup also worked without issue in a 243 rifle case.
My big if is: will a SPP in a LPP cup work (ie. Not be too long) in a LPP pistol cartridge like a 45 LC. I’m going to have to try that combo. Don’t know about anyone else but with the popularity of 9mm, 380 & 38 special, the current shortage of SPPs is my big concern. Your experiments prove we can get by without LPPs. Other than reloading primers there aren’t a lot of options for a SPP shortage.
And again, I must commend you for your efforts.

[Milky Duck]

Ive read of fellas doing same /similar to get around the berdan primer thing....
refound this thread as just read the 30/40 Krag answer elsewhere.....and you fellas were already all over it LOL.

[Texas by God]

They sit a hair proud, I dropped the 1911 slide and fired the primers one at a time. All went bang.
SPP inside LPP body.
I’ll try loaded rounds after I cast some bullets- I couldn’t find ONE that wasn’t loaded already!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240225/b5fcfd073d87c565f1bc54003190d257.jpg


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[Dutchman]

https://images34.fotki.com/v649/photos/2/28344/3886627/30_40a-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/v_am-1/30_40ajpg.html)

[Bmi48219]

They sit a hair proud, I dropped the 1911 slide and fired the primers one at a time. All went bang.
SPP inside LPP body.
I’ll try loaded rounds after I cast some bullets- I couldn’t find ONE that wasn’t loaded already….

They look good!

[BoBSavage]

The 30-40 Krag was the beginning of the smokeless powder cartridges. Also known as the "30 Army" and "30 U.S".

The 30-40 Krag was used from 1892 until 1903, when it was replaced by the 30-03 ("30-45").....then replaced by the 30-06 in 1906 ("30 Gov't 06")...and used into the 1970's

[tarbe]

If the modified primers are sitting proud, just use your adjustable primer pocket uniforming tool to take a few thou out.

You'll probably want to keep those cases segregated.

All for science, of course!

[Texas by God]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240227/85a5e7637535c32c4211fae2910ba5be.jpg
These are my oldest Pre 30-40 Krag cartridges.
And drift wise;
I have tried the SPP(Fiocchi)inside the LPP cups in a Savage 110 .243 and only one out of three fired.
In the H&R Topper 44-40, 3 of 3 fired as normal.
In the Mauser 93 30-30, 3 of 3 fired with a slight hangfire.
Perhaps the last two guns have more firing pin travel.
I’m filing this under things that I’d Rather Not have to do. But glad to know how.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240227/41bcb0942f5a2a7d427f12dc7f012308.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240227/91248a5beab0f01dddb7233815b0054e.jpg


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[Rapier]

The 06 brass all has a flat base, the Kraig cases are all beveled base for the extractor dsign on the Kraig rifles.

There is or was a 30 American round, it was designed by Richard Mertz of MOA in the 1980s, is a 7.62x39, with a .308 barrel and a 40 degree shoulder, blown out body with minimum taper. Round was designed to be used in the MOA single shot platform. Today it would be similar to the 30 Grendel or Bill's 30 ARc round.

[405grain]

Since the thread about Krag brass drifted off into the arena of primers, I should try to merge the two subjects back together by stating that any Krag cartridges marked 30 Army (or something close to 30 Govt, etc.) were made back in the days of corrosive primers. If the case was fired and then reloaded, mercury could have made that brass brittle over the decades that it has been sitting. Even if "new" that cartridge will probably still have a corrosive primer. Either way, the cartridge in question would make a better collector item than a shooter.

[Barry54]

TbG, I commend and appreciate your efforts.
So if I understand, an SPP in a LR cup worked without issue priming a 243 rifle case.
And an SPP in a LPP cup also worked without issue in a 243 rifle case.
My big if is: will a SPP in a LPP cup work (ie. Not be too long) in a LPP pistol cartridge like a 45 LC. I’m going to have to try that combo. Don’t know about anyone else but with the popularity of 9mm, 380 & 38 special, the current shortage of SPPs is my big concern. Your experiments prove we can get by without LPPs. Other than reloading primers there aren’t a lot of options for a SPP shortage.
And again, I must commend you for your efforts.

SPP shortage? Meaning small pistol primers? MidwayUSA just let me put 20,000 CCI small pistol primers in my cart.

Edited to add:
Maybe I misunderstood. In the event of a small pistol primers shortage?

[littlejack]

How about using a large "pistol" primer cup? They are thinner, which would help with the firing pin strike, AND they are shorter than the large rifle primer cup. This would solve the issue with the primer sitting "proud" with the SPP when seated.

[uscra112]

If you dig the guts out of a fired LR primer and flatten out the firing pin dent- you can seat a SR or SP primer inside of the LR hull.
Then load the cartridge as usual.
It worked when I tried it. YMMV!
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A dozen years ago I learned a similar trick to convert Berdan-primed 7.5x55 Swiss to boxer priming. Chuck the case in a lathe and carefully drill into the fired primer with a 1/8 center drill, (NOT a combined drill/countersink) until all of the crown of the Berdan primer is gone. Then drill a central flash hole. Swage the remaining wall of the primer with a primer pocket swage. A small rifle primer will now press in just dandy. A dozen cases thus converted were fired maybe 6 times with heavy cast bullet loads with no trouble, just to prove the principle. (I had 100 Boxer-prime Norma in stock, so didn't need to do more.)

Same procedure should work to convert Large boxer primers to small, (without having to drill the flash hole, of course)..