223 load using 22 cal pellet in a TC contender carbine?

[frkelly74]

I bought the 223 carbine barrel with the intention of making cheap light loads for shooting instead of 22 LR which I was afraid was going to be unavailable or too expensive to shoot. Funny how much we will spend to save a little money isn't it? So yesterday I was contemplating a light load using a 224415 boolit with bullseye and I happened to look at the shelf and there was my tin of 22 pellets just sitting there, (another just in case I can't find 22 lr type purchase). I wondered if a primer would launch one of the pellets down a 22" barrel and I found out it would in pretty short order. It has enough power to dent 1/4" plywood when it impacts it. My questions begin with how small a charge of Bullseye can I get away with using to get a little more power but not much noise and wondered if anyone had done this before with good results. I guess I could try one grain and two grains and three grains but thought it might have been covered already. Also, going back to the 415 boolit, does anyone have experience with downloading that one to extremely light levels. Thank you

[45-70 Chevroner]

I have done both. My lowest charge behind the 415 was 2 gr. Bullseye. You need to be sure and check that the boolit did in fact exit the barrel. My expermenting with the pellet was drilling a hole in the 223 shell to accept a shotgun primer. That would almost shoot through a 1\4" in plywood.

[ohland]

My expermenting with the pellet was drilling a hole in the 223 shell to accept a shotgun primer. That would almost shoot through a 1\4" in plywood.

What kind of accuracy with the small rifle primer, what kind of accuracy with the 209?

[country gent]

I do this with a 22 hornet. Small rifle primer no powder and a 22 cal pellet loaded backwards ( skirt forward). Shoots very accuratly and small critters are history. I tried skirt ack and occsionally stuck one in te bore. I a 223 case with more volumne it may take a small charge to getwhere you want. Watch to make sure you dont leave skirts in the barrel causing an obstruction with the powder charges added pressure.

[frkelly74]

1.1 gr BE with small pistol primer 225415 boolit as cast with tumble lube will penetrate 5/8" plywood plus 1/4" plywood. going lower.

[SSGOldfart]

I used a 22cal pellets flipped over and loaded backwards into 223 case's for training rounds while in the Army First mark each case with a marker and use only primer?Please don't try loading them later you may have to drill a little larger flash hole I didn't see any reason to use mag primers just plain small rifle works great and would operate the M16 or my AR-15 I would use a few sand bags at one end of the hall and shoot 25 yards with almost same point of impact@that range while doing CQ duty I would load a few thousand using my thumb to seat the pellets and a hand priming tool very easy make less nosie than a 22CB round. Boy I miss those days of going to the range three or four times a week and shooting in the hallway. Good luck

[richhodg66]

I've been shooting light cast in a .22 Hornet for a while now. Between 1.5 and 2 grains of Bullseye. 1.5 grains of Bullseye works well with the 225438, the Lee Bator and the plain based NOE 45 grain WFN from a group buy I got in on and is pretty quiet. That NOE WFN works quite well on Squirrels, I would think a flat nosed target pellet would be similar.

[SSGOldfart]

Yes Sir it will be
I've been using a NOE 55gr with 1.5 bullseye but being careful is the first thing and this load. Has been known to leave one in the barrel from time to time
Were I've never had that with the pellet load

[2AMMD]

I was toying with the same idea of using pellets because of the 22 shortage and had read about the skirt separation issue. I took a regular 22 cal pellet and set it in the nose of the lee 22 bator mold and filled the skirt and remaining space with hot melt glue. I havn't tried firing them yet (I don't have a single shot or bolt 223 yet) but think it should work. Was planning on converting a few cases for 209 primers and using some heavier pellets for plinking and pests if it worked.
2AMMD

[SSGOldfart]

with just a primer I've never seen the skirt separation issue myself guess I've been loading these for over 50 years now,never once had a problem with pellets and primers, finding good 22 cal. pellets can be a little hard at times I wonder who makes a mold for these??

[frkelly74]

I hadn't been aware of the skirts separating from the pellets. The ones I have are quite heavy for pellets and are hollow point. The head seems to be quite sturdy and the skirt is thick.

[bangerjim]

Never ever worked for me. Always left skirts/lead in the barrel.....forward or backward! And they were high quality PREMIUM air gun pellets....not that cheap Crosman garbage from WalMart.

Leave the 22 pellets for air guns like they were designed to be used. Buy a 223 BATOR mold and cast those lite weight slugs for your 223 guns. I have shot MANY hundreds of them out of my Mossy 223 lever with excellent accuracy and success. PC'd prevents ANY leading. Nice easy shooting round.

banger-j

[too many things]

how does a .22 cal shoot in a .224 bore. it don't, and the pellet wont stay in a 223 case with normal size dies .

[bangerjim]

how does a .22 cal shoot in a .224 bore. it don't, and the pellet wont stay in a 223 case with normal size dies .

Yes it will. That is what that skirt does....flare out and fill the barrel.....forward or backward. Unfortunately many times the skirt is blow outward so hard, it detaches and is impaled inside the barrel, letting you practice your lead mining skills.

To get it to go in a standard 223 case neck, you only need to increase the skirt flare a tiny bit and it will stay in place. I used one of the ball rounding punches from my trusty HF ball set. Been there, tried that.....does NOT work worth a tinker's darn. Just messing around.

Spend a little $$ and get a 223 BATOR mold or other style 223/4 from NOE.

banger-j

[country gent]

I have done this for years in 22 hornet and 22-250 with good results never any powder just the primers. I had bought 2000 pellets same lot number for this and used them only. I started out doing this to check lots of primers consistency. I would load 1 case fire over chronograph 10 times to see how consistent a velocity was produced by each lot number of primers. Hence the reason for 22-250 to test large rifle primers. 1 case 1 batch / lot number type pellets the only variable was the primers I was testing. I dont recall the actual velocities obtained. I would buy 100 primers to test putting a case on hold with the same lot number. I figured the most consistent velocity produced was also the most consistant primer. A sized 22 case is around .221-.222 inside dia depending on dies and brass. A pellet would just enter and the skirt is a light interference fit loaded back wards. Thumb pressure was all that was needed to seat them. I have later on used this for marauding birds and rats in barns instead of a pellet gun.

[Dusty Bannister]

I have had a lot of fun with just the #3 buck (.25") in the 6MM TCU after running the shot pellet into a .244 sizer die, then tumble lube with LLA. Seated over a small amount of Bullseye and sealed with a single thickness of CFVentures SGC and thumb press the pellet in a flared case. I will be doing the same thing with the 223 contender and #4 (.24") buck sized .225. Grass hoppers, dragon flies and other pests within about 20 yards should beware.

http://www.caversham16.freeserve.co.uk/

Great way to use up old and odd primers.

[w30wcf]

30 gr .22 caliber bullets available here.
250 for only $8!
http://northamericanarms.com/accessories/cb-accessories/cb-parts/cbb250.html

[frkelly74]

I just tried a couple of .5 grain bullseye loads behind a 225415 boolit and it was not enough to get the boolit out of the case mouth. The cartriges were warm and all the powder burned but the boolit did not move. So I guess that is too light.

[SSGOldfart]

What kind of crimp are you using?I don't crimp ultra light loads,just neck size only and if you have to use a crimp you might want to use a very like tapered crimp I stay at 1gr to 1.5gr if I'm using powder.must of my pest loads are primers only with pellets flipped over backwards.

[SSGOldfart]

Btw you want to get into the habit of checking the barrel after each shot using these ultra light loads and unique might be better than bullseye.carry a rod to the range with you one stuck in the barrel is not going to be a good thing when you shoot the next shot even with ultra light loads pressure got to go somewhere.

[frkelly74]

I was using a pretty hard crimp theoretically to get the pressure up before the boolit moved. I am shooting at a wooden backstop where I can see the boolit impact, also the Contender is easy to check the bore and I have a nice brass rod handy just in case. Powder charge being the same at about one grain, I noticed that the pressure was much higher with a 50 gr boolit rather than an airgun pellet, just judging from the report. It also seemed more consistent shot to shot. I really wanted to use red dot but didn't have any, I do have PB and Unique though to play with.

[gloob]

Never ever worked for me. Always left skirts/lead in the barrel.....forward or backward! And they were high quality PREMIUM air gun pellets....not that cheap Crosman garbage from WalMart.
Huh? The inexpensive Crosman Premiers are very consistent and plenty accurate in my air rifle. I had no luck with a tin of RWS and I still have a tin of JSB to use up, when I get tired of good groups. Some guns like a certain pellet, and cost rarely has anything to do with it.

More importantly, Crosman pellets are made of a much harder alloy than those fancy-pants, expensive imports, which are usually close to dead soft lead. For this purpose, Premiers are surely better. Shooting them down a .224 bore, I'm not sure why you'd bother wasting the extra money on expensive pellets, anyway.

I am lucky to have a good Bator mold. 2.7 gr of Promo is around the same muzzle report as a 22LR, or maybe a bit more. I prefer 4 grains for a bit more interaction with the target. 10 grains of SR4759, even better.

[frkelly74]

Is your bator mold one of the revised design or the original fat nose mold. I have one of each. the older one is .225 all the way to the nose ogive. The newer one that I have not even warmed up is supposed to be smaller at the nose.

[gloob]

My Bator mold must be revised. The bore-riding nose measures .220. The driving bands are full diameter.

I think you're going to like your new mold. All my loads have had consistent, useable accuracy out to at least 50 yards (I rarely shoot farther, and I rarely punch paper). This is from subsonic mouse fart, all the way up until my 50:50 lino/WW bullets start to deconstruct themselves and coat the flash hider. That happens at about 20 grains of H335 in a 1:8 twist. I have a new 1:12 rifle, but I haven't had time to work up any new high velocity loads with it.


I just tried a couple of .5 grain bullseye loads behind a 225415 boolit and it was not enough to get the boolit out of the case mouth. The cartriges were warm and all the powder burned but the boolit did not move. So I guess that is too light.
Secondhand, I read that 1 grain Red Dot will stick a Bator in a barrel. I would think the bare minimum is going to be circa 1.5 Red Dot, or maybe 1.8 of Unique. I would try to get some Dacron if I were trying for the bare min.

[leadman]

I bought the kit from Sportsmans Guide just to see what it was. It is a case modified to take a 209 primer and has a couple of dimples in the case neck to prevent the pellet from going in the case too for.
I shot the Crossman pellets over my Chrony, about 600 fps IIRC. At 10 yards they made one hole with 5 shots then accuracy went south. Found the primers had left a black goo in the 23" Contender barrel that proved to be very difficult to remove. Clean barrel shot well again for about 5 shots.
Too much work cleaning the primer goo out of the barrel so put it in the drawer.

[gloob]

Similar problem with Aguila Super Colibri primer-only rounds. CCI CBs are about the best it gets for quite and accurate shooting, when you can find them at a decent price. There's a reason CCI stopped there. Still pretty quiet out of a longer barrel.

[ohland]

At 10 yards they made one hole with 5 shots then accuracy went south. Found the primers had left a black goo in the 23" Contender barrel that proved to be very difficult to remove. Clean barrel shot well again for about 5 shots. Too much work cleaning the primer goo out of the barrel so put it in the drawer.

Was it primers? I never remembered primers being a source for sticky residue. Is there a possibility that the pellets are coated with a slightly tacky (or dry!) lubricant that is the culprit? This brings up the conundrum of degreasing the pellet, but now having to re-Lūb with a better Lūb. Love to see the Lubrisizer set-up. (or, use the spay-on coating...)

IIRC, the pellet lubricant never sees high temp. Feel free to correct me, but though the compressed air should have an increase in temp, due to compression, think of the total mass of the air gun available to absorb that heat.

:popcorn:

[gloob]

Was it primers? I never remembered primers being a source for sticky residue.
Colibri primer-only rounds leave so much residue that after shooting maybe 5 or 6 of them, my rifle will fail to extract an unfired 22LR, and I need to use a pen knife to unload it. It sure seems like primer compound needs high pressure to burn, completely, just like powder. Same thing happens with shorts or CB's but it takes a lot more rounds.

[MarkP]

Several years ago I had some SPEER 44 caliber plastic bullets and cartridges cases that used a primer only, these would shoot thru 1/2" drywall with ease. Bullets were black and the cases were red in color and could be deprimed with a ball point pen and loaded by placing a primer on a wood block and pressing on the case mouth with thumb. They made these in 357/38, 44, & 45ACP and the 45 did not come with plastic cases but used regular brass cases with flash holess drilled out.

Shooting these would foul the bbl very quickley and stain the cylinder in my 10-1/2" Ruger SBH.


Colibri primer-only rounds leave so much residue that after shooting maybe 5 or 6 of them, my rifle will fail to extract an unfired 22LR, and I need to use a pen knife to unload it. It sure seems like primer compound needs high pressure to burn, completely, just like powder. Same thing happens with shorts or CB's but it takes a lot more rounds.