Haven't stirred the pot much, so here we go.....

[Lefty Red]

Is the 22 rim fire rifle still in the #1 spot for the survival firearm?
I was surfing the web and asked this of Bing and Google. All I got was old posts from 2010 and earlier. Back when you could still get ammo. 22lr ammo is hit or miss. And when you find it its $0.10 a round! I can buy 9mm ammo for $0.17 a round and it does more than just punch holes in paper! I can load 38 Special for $0.15 and that is if I get lazy and buy jacketed bullets. 22lr ammo is either the high end target stuff (2x to 3x the normal price) and severally limited.

Why this rant? I purchased a Ruger 10/22 for my son this Christmas. Bought two bricks of 325 rounds with it. It was the limit they me to. I was only able to get a couple more bricks later on. I don't like to have less then six bricks in storage and the one I am working out of. I am scared to shoot one of the four I have for fear I won't get any more anytime soon.

I have asked store owners this question, where is the 22lr ammo? They tell me they are only getting about 1/3 of the 22lr they use to get back in pre 2008. Even the big box stores with old friends as sporting goods clerks tell me that. So don't tell me its horders! Especially when places are limiting their sales of 22lr.

Really thinking of just buying two M92 Rossi carbines from Steve's Guns and having him work them over and using them. I haven't shot my Henry 22 Carbine in months. Don't want to risk not having ammo for it!

Anyways, besides the present problems, does the 22lr weapon still hold the top spot for a survival or BUG?

Jerry

[rintinglen]

Yes if you have ammo. Heck no if you don't. I have an M-1 Carbine, molds, lead, and a boat load of primers and powder. That said, I can drop 2000 22lr and a 10-22 in a back pack for a lot less weight. I join you in not buying the "we're making it as fast as we can" bologna. Like you, I have a friend who works in purchasing for a large sporting goods chain. He says they get less than 20 % of what they were getting before 2011.

[Catshooter]

Nope, and for me it never has been. I don't like ammo I can't make, I don't like the lack of power the rimfires have and they are too fragile and not water tight.

And that was back when you could buy it. I especially don't like it for that reason.

It could be impossible to buy any component from tomorrow to the end of my life and I could still shoot plenty for many years.

Rimfire can have a place but in my house that place is very limited.


Cat

[tazman]

The 22lr is a good survival cartridge from a feed your family standpoint. It works on small game and with precise placement, works on medium size game.
From a defend the family standpoint it fails. Not enough power or range to make either a good short or medium defense cartridge. Poor shot placement defeats almost any cartridge, but a cartridge that requires perfect placement to be effective fails in a defense scenario.

[Hannibal]

Is it cheap and readily available? 'Nuf said.

[00buck]

I think a .22 or .17 pellet gun would be a better survival gun for hunting.
It won't give away your position when shooting

I can't find .22 ammo in my area either

[Errokk]

The . 22lr ammo has been dry here also. I've even went as far as selling 1 of my 22's! I can cast and load for 380 auto or 9mm luger way cheaper and have way more punch then a 22. There is something going on with the 22lr ammo for sure! Wish I knew what it was...

[dubber123]

Nope, and for me it never has been. I don't like ammo I can't make, I don't like the lack of power the rimfires have and they are too fragile and not water tight.

And that was back when you could buy it. I especially don't like it for that reason.

It could be impossible to buy any component from tomorrow to the end of my life and I could still shoot plenty for many years.

Rimfire can have a place but in my house that place is very limited.


Cat

My feelings exactly. Not water tight? How about not even damp proof. I own plenty of .22's, but they see little use here.

[GhostHawk]

300blackout in a H&R single shot, I can reload those for less than the cost of new .22lr.
It is deer legal, 16.5 inches long, 5 lbs it has in less than a week pretty much replaced my Ruger 10/22.
No it isn't an autoloader, but in a SHTF scenario every round is precious. Semi auto's tempt you to shoot sooner and more often than you should sometimes. A single shot forces you to wait for the best possible shot, be ready, and take it if and when it happens.

Mind you I'm still sitting on a fair stash of .22lr, but in a shtf scenario you might not be able to replace them.
With a centerfire, if you keep primers, powder on hand, can mold your own bullets over a campfire if need be.
Well then any you fire can be quickly reloaded.

I'm shooting 155 gr range lead bullets over 4-5 grains of Red Dot, getting good accuracy with only a Red Dot sight.
Next month it is getting a Simmons variable power scope.

@ 4 grains of Red Dot each, a single lb reloads a thousand rounds with 3k grains left over. So you can have a thousand reloads for that 9mm or .39 special also.

Lead is salvageable (dirty, unfun, but doable) from car batterys, and many other places.
You don't need a Dillon to reload, a Lee Hand press with the right tools will do it. Everything for 1 or 2 calibers would fit in a backback if you needed to move.

.22LR just does not have that kind of flexibility. Once upon a time it was readily available in every sporting good shop and lots of other places. No longer true, so planning has to adapt and change.

[bedbugbilly]

I think the 22 "used" to be the primary choice . . . but no longer . . . at least in my mind.

Lefty - I feel your pain as far as supply and your son. Just before the shortage started, I purchased a Ruger 10-22. I'm 62 and hadn't shot 22s since I was a kid and started out with my Dad's old Stevens Favorite. I wanted to "convert" the 10-22 to one of the "M-1 Carbine styles" - got the kit from Sarco did the conversion - it looks great. But, I have fired a grand total of 50 rounds through it. I have probably 8 22s between rifles and pistols - all sit silent and have since ammo got short and the gouging started.

Yea, things have changed over the years but a 22 was always "the gun" to start a kid out on. I really feel sorry for the fathers and their sons and daughters that are missing out on this important training that a 22 provides. I won't even get started on the "shortage" and the idiots we put into office in Washington DC.

The other day on flea bay, I ran across a "22 rimfire reloading kit" - I just scanned it so don't know the details but it evidently uses recycled spent casings - comes with a mold and assorted tools - I don't know what they use to "prime" the rims - it was pretty pricey - around $150. I NEVER thought I'd ever see such a thing - a sign of the times though.

What I don't get is when I'm in a gun shop, I see 22s selling - but the ammo still is short. I think you were lucky to find the bricks you did. I also question why the gun manufacturers who make 22s aren't coming up with a solution to the 22 shortage - how can you sell a product that you can't find ammo for?

Just my thoughts - my preference would be a 22 for an around "survival" gun. Now though, I would change my thinking to something like a small 9mm or 38 Special rifle (if someone would make a light-weight one) as I would want something that I could cast and reload.

I'm just an "old fart" - but I never thought I'd see the day that I can cast and reload 38s cheaper than what I can pay per round of 22 rimfire. Gee . . thank you Mr. Obama and all your cronies . . .

[BigAl52]

I don't cast just because not only I don't want to anymore, I don't have the time. Not sure if the 22 is still the main survival round but at my house the 38 special would fall into that category. I may not be able to carry as many but that's fine with me. The local gun club has 22lr ammo for its members but the price is so close to what I can load 38 for I have refused to buy it. I have even sold some of my 22 pistols and rifles just for that reason. Al

[lbaize3]

A man by the name of Townsend wrote a book called Survival Guns a number of years back. His selection was well thought out and his reasoning was sound. I suggest you get a copy if available and read it. He makes a number of valid points concerning pellet rifles and rim fire weapons.

[wv109323]

If you are a true prepper, you had tons of .22 LR stored before the shortage.

[DLCTEX]

My 22 ammo is reserved for my grandsons.
last week I trades a box of my 9 mm cast reloads for two boxes of 22 shorts and a partial box of Black Hills 223 ammo, just to have them for my grandsons. I can shoot my cast boolit ammo, and some are cheaper than 22's if I could find them.

[Bigslug]

Asking the question on a forum exclusively populated by self-sufficient handloaders may not get you the most market-encompassing feedback - - just sayin'. . .

Logistically speaking for those that roll their own, I would hand the crown to the .38/357. It can be had in rifles and handguns. Brass is easily found and scrounged, it can be loaded to eat little lead and powder, and with the right load, it can kill pretty much anything if you think your shot through and don't get stupid with the yardage.

[bob208]

.22 used to be for me. a few years ago I picked up a rossi 92 carbine in .357. that with my .357 rugers works better now. light .38 loads for practice and small game. full bore .357 or hot .38 loads for larger game and self defense.
as at a gun show paid $20 for a big bag of .38 brass. there were 700 in the bag.

[white eagle]

We all started out on 22 rimfire,or at least alot of us.
could it be that the overall demand for 22's fell from grace
in this day an age most young boys are not hunting as much as they used to??

[Guesser]

I like centerfire for both hand gun and rifle. I developed that liking the first time I fired a cartridge I had hand loaded; back in 1956. My attitude has only become stronger and more determined as the years have passed. I have 22 RF on hand and actually fired 9 rounds yesterday, what a letdown, stopped there, no point in going on with RF.

[smoked turkey]

I agree with post #10 where he states "What I don't get is when I'm in a gun shop, I see 22s selling - but the ammo still is short. I think you were lucky to find the bricks you did. I also question why the gun manufacturers who make 22s aren't coming up with a solution to the 22 shortage - how can you sell a product that you can't find ammo for?"
I see ads for 22 rimfire rifles and think how can they keep selling them and writers keep testing and doing glowing write-ups when ammo is unavailable? I think the op has started a discussion that needed to be brought up. We might as well face the fact that 22 rf ammo will not be available for a long time to come. I have turned my attention to low power light loads for my plinking and think it might be time to liquidate some rf rifles and replace them with guns that use reloadable ammo. If you reload the cost difference between rf and cf ammo types is very small.

[Guesser]

I bought 2 very nice nearly new 22 revolvers this past year, just because they were traded in for 9MM semi autos, as 9 ammo is there 22 is not. It will be back; but I have several thousand rounds of 22 so I can shoot them if I want. I did shoot 9 rounds yesterday and 200 rounds of my hand loads.

[runfiverun]

I had a box of 100 cci 22 lr bullets in my hand the other day.
I just about threw them in the shopping cart and went on my way, but I glanced down at the $9.99 price tag on the top of the plastic case and gently placed them back on the counter.
the other brand [Aguila] sitting there was $4.99 for 50 rounds.

there is no way I'm paying 10 cents apiece for 22 ammo.
I can shoot my 9mm 44 or whatever else I got cheaper much cheaper even using gas checks.
cheap isn't the only reason for sure, especially with the availability of pistol powders recently.

[FergusonTO35]

Mylocal guy says he has actually received and sold more .22 ammo than ever before over the last two years.

Is there really much profit to ammo makers in rimfire ammo other than pricey $12/50 rounds target stuff? I would say centerfire has better profit margins. Centerfire ammo is everywhere here, I cant imagine the manufacturers could not use some of that capacity for rimfire.

[gpidaho]

Just when I finally had the 22rfs I wanted all rounded up the wheels fell off! Sold my Single Six that was like new, looking to sell my M&P 15 22 and just can't part with Ruger model ninety-six lever. Wish the folks over in Serbia would get wind of this like the PPU brass and make us up a big batch, can't seem to get any made for use here at home. WTH! GP

[EDK]

I scored THREE 50 round boxes of CCI Quiet ammo at a local Wal Mart for $3.47 each. First 22 LR of any sort I've seen at ANY of them locally in months. LGS has some at gouger prices.

MEL TAPPAN wrote SURVIVAL GUNS back in the late 70s/early 80s. He had a column in several magazines before he died of renal failure IIRC.

[Catshooter]

Lead is salvageable (dirty, unfun, but doable) from car batterys, and many other places.


.

Danger danger Red Ranger. There is indeed lead in batteries. Lots. There is also lots of arsenic, and when you melt the battery, some of the arsenic is released. One good lung full could be a problem, at least if you had intentions of living out the day. Just FYI.


Cat

[Rick Hodges]

I scored 2 bricks of 500 Remington Thunderbolts...for 19.99@ it is coming back. I think the new "standard" price will be $25/brick of 500 and we will catch it on sale for better prices. "Most" have a few thou stashed away now and the production will begin to sit on the shelves a bit.
22LR is an extremely useful caliber, even at a nickle a piece.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm always amused by the prepper mentality.
Now if we're talking about a survival tool, like something you would want to carry in a small aircraft or boat in case you needed to take small game, the .22 rifle is a good choice. The concept of the old AR-7 was a decent idea. A Ruger 10/22 is probably the best semi-auto .22 for the money and even a single shot .22 rifle would be better than nothing if you were hungry.
As for the ammunition thing, I'm not concerned. At the last gun show I attended I saw vendors with tables of .22 rimfire that NO ONE was buying. A lot of speculators purchased that stuff at the peak of the panic and now have storage lockers full of .22 that they can no longer sell for a profit.

Sit back and watch folks. It's going to be fun.

As for other cartridges for that role, Unless you are faced with dangerous animals I think something like a 38 Special has a lot of value.
Cheap, accurate, fairly light weight ammunition, not terribly loud. A short rifle chambered in 38 Special would be very useful and even a K-38 revolver would be more than accurate enough for small game plus be easy to carry.

[bhn22]

22 ammo foraging is a constant task now days. My real concern with 22 ammo is that the quality of some of what's available is on the "iffy" side. I'm wondering about the quality of the ammo thats supposedly being pumped out of the rimfire factories since they are (allegedly) running so fast and hard.

[Bonz]

I would not choose the .22 as a survival tool just simply because I can't reload the ammo. And to me, it would be useless as a survival tool when I would run out of .22 ammo.

I decided to stop chasing the .22 ammo deals and just quit shooting them for now. When I think of a survival weapon, I think of something where the caliber is very high on the popularity list ( 9mm, .223, etc. ) so I know that there is a lot of it available and something that I can cast and reload. Of course, at some point, the primers and smokeless powder will be gone.

[gpidaho]

Like Bonz, I've just stopped shooting 22rf for now. I have sooooo many reloadable cals. to plink with. GP

[RogerDat]

The .22 as a "survival round of choice" was mostly due to the compact size and weight of both firearms and ammo. It was not based on some SHTF survival scenario or having a zombie apocalypse to survive.

For wilderness survival the .22 in my opinion is still supreme. Like all wilderness survival gear it is useless if you don't bring it along. Having a Marlin papoose, or one of the single shot .22 & .410 over/under survival guns in your vehicle, bush plane, canoe, or snow mobile is easier to find a spot for and not too heavy even complete with a decent amount of ammo.

Can hunt food, can defend against wolves and most moderate sized predators. Even 2 legged predators might not be in too much of a hurry to follow one into cover if you were armed even if only with the lowly .22 because no predator 2 legged or 4 wants to get shot. And if the predator in question is a bear well the .22 won't slow you down as much as you run or climb a tree :-)

I suppose if you had the .410 bore you could load a very hot .45 LC rounds if you thought you might need something with a bit more punch.

For SHTF etc. that still may offer a practical use for the .22 but as a one and only bug out choice it does tend to come up a little short. With a lot of potential alternative choices. I would lean toward the .38 and/or .357 and if I have to bug out I think the most efficient way to transport powder, primers, brass & lead is in ready to use ammo.

If you were going to be thinking long enough term that you think casting ammo is going to be mandatory maybe you should be thinking flint lock ML because in a pinch you might be able to make powder but sooner or later primers or percussion cap supply will run out. Of course I'm pretty sure this last scenario is one of the least likely to take place. Still it is ahead of alien invasion so not the least likely thing to consider.

[Petrol & Powder]

Roger Dat, that was well written and those are good points. I have no use for the extreme SHTF scenarios or the zombie apocalypse type planning. In commonsense, real world planning the .22 rifle still has a lot going for it. The guns are relatively lightweight, the ammunition IS lightweight and compact (an important consideration) and even cheap .22 rifles are reasonably accurate. Some type of inexpensive .22 rifle and a few hundred rounds of ammunition can easily be carried along in a truck/canoe/airplane/boat etc. and provide a lot of benefit for little cost.

I think the heeled bullet construction of the cartridge makes it a little more susceptible to contamination by water but it's fairly simple to protect some ammo. Stainless steel, aluminum and plastic construction would be my choice but something as simple as an old Remington Nylon 66 would work just fine as well.


A rifle chambered in something like the 38 Special would be a real close runner up for a survival rifle. Still lightweight, very accurate and would be a good companion to a revolver without a huge weight penalty.

If we're talking about some sort of "End of the world as you know it" BS hypothetical situation, ......I'll just be the first Gazelle to be killed.

[Char-Gar]

The recent shortage of 22 rimfire ammo will forever change the way we shoot. The supply may or may not get better, we will never look at a box of rimfire ammo the same way again.

A plain base 30 caliber cast bullet wizing along at 1,100 fps, will give as good accuracy and allot more wallop that any 22 RF around, for not much more, if any money. I broke the code on this over 60 years ago.

[aarolar]

Im in the 38/357 group myself when the wife and I were dating we would put 1k rounds a weekend through my buckmark now we haven't shot it in 5 years. That was when a brick of 550 was 9.99.

[RogerDat]

Marlin Papoose has been my go-to for canoe and car camping for at least a couple of decades. 3.25 lbs. The current availability or price of ammo does not impact that long term. If never readily available again that might. But as far as I know folks did not stop loading for handgun and sell off the dies when pistol powder got scarce.

There is a lot going for the .30 cal or .38 as long as you can find a firearm you personally would find easy to keep with you. Never having hunted small game with either of these two I'm not sure how they would perform in the role of meat getter if small game was what was most available. On the other hand I think the .36 rifle was pretty common in colonial America and a lot of those folks were using them to get food.

With you and you are able to shoot it accurately at distances appropriate for the area with a range and power suitable for the most likely game. If it does that the rest is just personal preference.

[farmerjim]

357 Maximum single shot. The 22 rf for 2015. Shoots 38 sp (22 short) 357 mag (22 long) 357 Max (22 lr).

[Fishman]

The main reason one cannot find .22 on the shelves is because for the average non-reloading Joe it is still the cheapest ammo available. I don't see that changing for a long time. We are a select few that cast and reload, and what we think or do really has little bearing on the gun or ammo market.

[Horace]

I still have 22 rf ammo from before 08 I`m good there. A 99 Savage takedown in 303 Savage with 150 plain base cast @ 1000 fps is what playing I`m with.

Horace

[dragon813gt]

I still have plenty of 22 ammo. But we have stopped shooting it as much. And the reason for that is the 327 Federal. Like the 357 it can shoot lesser powered cartridges. But it uses less lead and less powder than the bigger 35 caliber. Ammo and components aren't as plentiful as 357. But hopefully over the coming years it becomes more available. As soon as they chamber it in a lever action hopefully it gains more traction. What's not to like about an 85 grain bullet pushed by a few grains of powder for plinking loads or a 120 grain bullet pushed by a magnum powder that almost equals 357 performance.

Brought this up because my 14yo step daughter used to shoot up a brick of 22 a week. Now she loves the 327 Federal loaded down.

[MT Gianni]

Danger danger Red Ranger. There is indeed lead in batteries. Lots. There is also lots of arsenic, and when you melt the battery, some of the arsenic is released. One good lung full could be a problem, at least if you had intentions of living out the day. Just FYI.


Cat
We can deal with the arsenic, the Cadmium is the real killer in batteries.

[MT Gianni]

22 is still fine and meets the qualifications of a survival food getter. Just make sure you have single shots not auto loaders when you are out practicing. You already set your 10 k aside in the 90's didn't you?

[Dutchman]

http://ammoseek.com/ammo/22lr (http://ammoseek.com/ammo/22lr)

[warf73]

http://ammoseek.com/ammo/22lr (http://ammoseek.com/ammo/22lr)

Great Link
Thanks

[snoopy]

22 is rare at walmart here, hit and miss at the big box sporting goods stores. Somebody ALWAYS has it on the local swap and sell, gougers. I think .10 rd is the new norm, last I bought was online, but being very conservative and shooting lots more 38 which I believe has pretty much taken the top spot for a survival gun. I do question some of the cost per round claims nowadays though. It seems almost too cheap in some cases for the reloadable calibers with primer and powder costs the way they are.

[salvadore]

Commenting on char gar's post, 4 years ago I started shooting my 32/20 O.P's load 3.5gr 231 under a pb 3118 type bullet in my Marlin 94. An inexpensive accurate load @ 1100fps, equally accurate with hornady's hbwc. While I'm not selling my .22's he makes an excellent point.

[GhostHawk]

I curtailed my .22lr use severely last year.
We did shoot some 200 rounds when we got a new Ruger Mk3 (22/45 6" bull barrel, stainless)
My rifle that normally shoots a brick or 2 per year shot I think a single box.

I'm sitting on a nice stash, and I added to it when Armscor and CCI partnered up to make a good offer.
I bought 2k rounds, and I'm glad I did.

But I have been shooting a lot more centerfire, everything from little 7.62x25 up through .444 and .45acp.
If you can cast your own boolits, and shop wisely for powder and primers you can reload for the cost of .22lr.

[aarolar]

To me 2k isnt a good stash thats just two or three weekends of shooting at my old rate

[HATCH]

I stockpiled all my supplies years ago.
223,308,7.62x39.5.45x39 and 22lr
I don't reload those and I have enough... and when I say enough trust me its plenty.

Now for pistol calibers I can still load 38sp for around 7 cents a round using supplies that I have. This price doesn't include the brass case as its reusable.

The problem that 22lr isn't around is that people are still hording it.
They are still making just as much as before but all the distributors have so much on backorder that it doesn't make it to the big box stores.
Everyone was use to just going to the store and buying what they needed the day they were going to the range.
I guess I am still sitting on about 10K rounds of 22lr but to be honest that isn't enough when the boy can shoot a entire box (333 rounds) at one range visit and thats with a single shot 22lr bolt gun.

I do know that my buddy can get a case (5K rounds) of Remington 22lr every week. It comes directly off the truck and goes to a shelf in the warehouse section of the store. There is piles of it stockpiled there. The employees and their friends go buy it when they need it.
When the shelf gets full they put some out on the floor for sale.

[Texantothecore]

I've switched over to .22 air guns. At the distances that are useful to me it is a good trade. I gave away all my 22lr to relatives to use on their farm.

I can also shoot the pellet gun in my suburban back yard which is very nice.
Pellet guns are very different than when I was a kid. Very accurate.

[Harter66]

I was never in the 22 camp . I figure if it all comes undone I will have to deal with lions ,bears and coyote scavengers and the 2 legs. 357 was always my choice having had a 1895 Marlin and a Sec 6 . I have shifted to 45s in the last few years with the idea that there is so many hardened vests it's as good to break bones as poke holes. I do have some small case rifles as well. If I had to pack and go to escape the hoards Im pretty sure I would fall into the cowboy/frontier mind set of pistol and rifle 1 cartridge and it wouldn't be a 22 there's just too much to go wrong when a 300 lb black bear or 200 lb mtn lion wants part of the Mustang you're butchering at dusk.

[fecmech]

The .22 rimfire has never been of much interest to me and at $.10/rd none at all. Small pistol primers have been in the low $20./k range for some time now and that's where I'm spending my plinking money. The last batch I bought got to my door at about $26/ thousand including shipping and hasmat. Couple that with about 4 grs of Bullseye or 5 grs of Unique and cast bullets and we are in the .03-.035 cents per round. I can do very well without .22's.

[Texantothecore]

I have not been a fan of 22lr because you can't reload it without jumping through hoops.

I have been a bit surprised at the lack of shooters moving over to centerfire..22s. The Hornet, k hornet, swift and 22-250 rounds are all good to great 22lr substitutes which are easily reloaded.

Being black powder shooter I tend to gravitate to larger rounds.

[9.3X62AL]

I have a great love for the 22 rimfires, but that is based almost entirely on their "fun potential". They are easily managed by less-experienced shooters, they instill almost zero fatigue, and good ammo in a good firearm can be VERY ACCURATE. I miss the days of readily-available 22 LR ammo, and "went decadent" a couple weekends back......I ran about 225 rounds of rimfire ammo at ground squirrels. Just because. Yessir, it was FUN.

Is the 22 LR a "survival" caliber? It could serve that role, sure. It is a better small game tool than a defensive chambering, though......I have 357 and 44 Magnum revolvers and rifles for that duty. "Survival" means different things to different people......my somewhat urban coastal situation 3 miles from the Mexican border now differs greatly from my former small town open desert environment.

I have opined at length at this site and others about the wherefores and whys of ammo and component shortages that have beset us for almost 6 years now. This has been the longest-enduring shortage I can recall, and while the Makers have blamed the customers for spikes in demand, I'm more inclined to fault the Makers for failing to recognize (or acknowledge) actual and sustained growth of this market sector. I would have a lot more respect for the Makers if they gave honest answers to customer questions of this kind, instead of resorting to corporate doublespeak about "unprecedented demand". CCI--I haven't seen Mini-Mags or SGBs at any price on any southern California retailer's shelf for 4 stinkin' years. That is ridiculous. 4 YEARS. GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER.

[gsdelong]

I am always confused by these threads. I live in the "wildest" part of my state on 10 acres. I have always assumed my survival weapon is going to spend more time keeping what I have rather than getting more. I think every dumb@$$ from the city is going to think the can live off the land in my neck of the woods. It was hard as hell a 100 years ago it is even going to be harder today.

[warf73]

If it comes to a survival gun, I would think the AR15 (223/5.56) would be the choice as of today. There are millions of the rifles sold and billions of rounds sold for the platform.
Raid your local Walmart, LSG, Cabela’s, Gander Mountain and any other large sporting goods box store. There are hundreds of thousands of rounds in either 223/5.56 at most all of them. From what I've seen and heard from folks here and family from across the US you can't find but a few 22lr.

IF the SHTF I'll use a quote from When We Were Soldiers.
"Lt. Colonel Hal Moore (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/name/nm0000154/): I think you oughta get yourself an M-16.
Sergeant Major Basil Plumley (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/name/nm0000385/): Sir, if the time comes I need one, there'll be plenty lying on the ground

I feel the same way about the AR15 platform and ammo to feed it. Look around at your friends and family, heck people on here. Over 90% of my friends and family own a rifle in the 223/5.56 platform. The 22lr is great for killing small game up to and including deer, but survival isn't just killing food. It would also encompass defending your family, shelter, food, water source and yourself. I would rather be able to have some killing distance a 223 would provide over a 22lr (please understand I'm from south central Kansas we are pretty flat, I could see most folks from 1mile to 400 yards.) Not saying there aren't other great choices but going off of pure volume of available ammo for a rifle the 223/5.56 has all others beat.

I'm not saying the 22lr isn't a great round but in this day and age, its easer to obtain 223/5.56 ammo.
On that note I do miss the day going down to the local mart and picking up a brick of ammo for $9.99. The last brick I purchased cost $14.99. The last bricks I seen was $90(gun show) and the guy couldn’t take people’s money fast enough.
Just my .02

[unclebill]

I will never buy another 22 .
I got rid of all mine except for two
And I might dump those too.
If I can't reload it
I don't want it

[Rally]

In a true mobile, survival situation, the wife and I would be wearing .38's, but I would prefer to be carrying a 12 guage in a police platform. It would offer many more opportunities, in my area, to harvest ducks, geese , grouse, deer, or fish. I can carry enough ammo to do so until more could be scrounged, of which there would likely be available through barter.
In the case of an invading force, either domestic or foreign, like stated above, there will be plenty on the ground if we were to survive.

[Bonz]

if I could find some free 15bhn lead, I could actually reload 9mm or .38 for approximately .10 a round but free 15bhn is rare in my neck of the woods

[rintinglen]

For me, the 32 has become the new 22, at least in pistols. I have a pair of S&W hand ejector"s. I bought 5000 small pistol primers at the last gun show for 122.67. That's 2.45 cents a piece. 2.5 grains of powder cost about 1.1 cents, lead at 1.00 a pound and 100 grain boolits run me about 2 cents per. My brass costs vary from nothing to about 3 cents (prorated over 8 loadings). That's about 5 to 8 cents each shot. I paid 35.00 bucks for a set of Lee Dies, and I already had the molds.