Gas checks & plain based bullets?

[sharktown]

I have lurked on the forum for a while and now I'm a new member and this is my first post. I guess this question has been brought up in the past but I'll ask anyway.
Can gas checks can be used on plain based bullets (no "gas check base" in their design)?
Has anybody done this with any success or is this just plain foolish?

Sharktown

[pdawg_shooter]

Nope. The bullet must have a reduced diameter base to accept the check. Unless, you want to paper patch. Lots of advantages that way.

[VTDW]

I reversed GCs on a PB boolit to see how the boolit would shoot. I used a dab of super glue after sizing and lubing to keep em in place and ran them thru the sizer to make sure they were aligned immediately upon application of the glue. It was just an experiment that worked and told me what I needed to know. I just sold the PM mold and got a nice group buy boolit mold because my experiment worked.

Dave

[softpoint]

VTDW is right , you can glue a check on backwards, don't seat the bullet where the check is below the neck, just in case it breaks the glue bond.....And the first post was correct, too, prolly just say no, get yourself a gascheck mold, or try to make your components work without gaschecks if you can. Gaschecks are getting so expensive you are seeing more shooters trying to do without 'em. They really are unnecessary for most practice and plinking loads.:-D

[jonk]

Crimp on copper checks no- unless glue as stated. Filler type or wad type checks, yes. I use a vegetable fiber wad in my 45/70 if using a plain base bullet; or pufflon filler sometimes. Some use Cream of Wheat. These all will act to some extent as a gas check- how well depends on material.

[Leftoverdj]

Supposedly, the home brew GCs made with the Hanned Line tool could be used on plan base bullets, They were much thinner than commercial GCs so the base would swage enough to accommodate them.

I've used reversed GCs without glue with some success.

I strongly believe that a plastic gas seal would work, but I lack the facilities to make them to the needed tolerances and having them commericially made would involve setup costs too high for an experiment.

[sharktown]

Thanks so much for all the input and information. I think I'll forget the gaschecks for plain based bullets for now and stick with what I know best.
Thanks again!

Sharktown

[Boomer Mikey]

A Paco Kelley Secret:
A small disk of bullet base size thin polypropylene with a very small amount of glue against the base can stop fouling. Cut the poly with a fabric punch, can cut hundreds in minutes...a little glue on a sponge and just tap the bullet base on it and put the disk to it...faster than gas checks almost.

Buffalo Arms stocks punches and poly stock as well as cardboard and vegetable card stock.

Just another option BP shooters have been using since the beginning of time.

Boomer :Fire:

[jhrosier]

....
I strongly believe that a plastic gas seal would work, ...

What would keep the powder gasses from melting the plastic and coating the bore with it?
It is an interesting idea, and not impossibly hard to impliment, of there is some chance of success.

Jack

[shooting on a shoestring]

Just think about shotguns. How many plastic wads get pushed on for 20 plus inches with powders like, umm, Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot, Unique, Herco, Steel, American Select, and perhaps a dozen others. Yep sometimes they get a little plastic in the bores, but that certainly doesn't seem to worry anyone.

I think friction is more of a problem for plastic wads than is heat. The heat from the combustion gases is applied only for a fraction of a second. You can pass your hand through a very hot flame for a fraction of a second and not get any amount of burn. But bump your knuckles on a sander for fraction of a second and skin cells get relocated.

[Leftoverdj]

What would keep the powder gasses from melting the plastic and coating the bore with it?
It is an interesting idea, and not impossibly hard to impliment, of there is some chance of success.

Jack

The Remington Accelerator plastic sabot rounds worked at pressures and velocities far past anything we need. There is/was a military training round that shot plastic bullets at howling velocities, but had very limited range because it was so light. The S&W Nyclad plastic coated bullets worked.

I don't know enough to know what plastic is needed, but I do know it can be done. What I want is a flat topped version of the base plug Speer uses for their shot capsules made just slightly oversided, thick enough not to tip, concave at the base, and with enough spring in it so to hold it in place in the case and to accomodate case tapers in straight walled cases. If we have to scrub out a little plastic from time to time, it's sure not going to be any worse than getting out copper or lead. My gut feeling is that there will be little plastic to remove because the contact area will be narrow, maybe 3/16", and lead will be sweeping the bore with every shot.

[siamese4570]

Sharktown: A little bit of a twist on one of the previous posts. I read somewhere to use a sharpened case mouth to cut disks out of the little foam trays that meat is packaged on then just push the disk down on top of the powder when you seat the bullet . Seems to work. I've even found disks downrange, squashed flat but not melted. You'd think that they would melt, but doesn't seem to happen. Would be simpler and cheaper than the glued gas check. I've used this with 44 and 357 mag.

Siamese4570

[rockrat]

I read somewhere that you can punch a hole in the bottom of the gas check (towards the cup side) and once you get the mould to temp, put the check in the mould and pour through the hole you punched. Just tried it last night, so can't say how well it works. No range time yet.

[softpoint]

I read somewhere that you can punch a hole in the bottom of the gas check (towards the cup side) and once you get the mould to temp, put the check in the mould and pour through the hole you punched. Just tried it last night, so can't say how well it works. No range time yet.

That does work, but still have to buy checks. They are fast becoming the most expensive component. At 35.00 or more per k, You could get 1 or more buckets of weights, maybe. This plastic disc sounds better all the time. I believe there are a good many plastics out there that would hold up.

[FredT]

Absolutely for certain applications. I use an inverted GC under the Lyman 480 grain pointed projectile in my favorite 45-70 load. No glue or anything. I just tap it into the case a quarter of an inch then seat projectile as normal. Fired in Uberti 1874 Sporting Rifle. Outstanding results. Could do the same in my 38-55s. Application for me is for straight wall case, not bottle neck.

[35remington]

Sharktown, you haven't seen Beagle's work. He has taken a .25 caliber bullet, inserted it base first in a .243" sizer to size only the bottom band, driven it back out with a soft flat nosed punch (be sure to lubricate the bullet so it may be driven out without distortion) then applied a 6.5 mm gascheck and crimped it running it through a .258" sizer.

He told me of this when he sent a few of his HP 257312 bullets to me to try. I did it myself and it does work. He made this modification to the RCBS 85 grain cowboy bullet, which has an excellent large meplat for hunting but is plain based. You must be sure the bullet is reduced to .243" so it bottoms out on the gas check and crimps without producing a rounded base - so the .243" sizing is critical so the check fits properly.

Others could be adapted the same way.

A complete accounting by Beagle, which is pretty much a rehash of what I just posted, is on the castpics site concerning the .25 caliber bullets in articles by members.

[Bret4207]

I've always wanted to try a very thin foil type metal, the metal duct tape maybe, cut a disc and center it in the sizer die. The sizer should force it onto the boolit base. How much trouble and whether it work is up for grabs.

[jhrosier]

I've always wanted to try a very thin foil type metal, .....

Bret,

FWIW, the sidewalls of aluminum Dr.Pepper cans are 0.0043" thick.
If you need some other thickness, McMaster-Carr has brass and soft copper stock in many thicknesses.

Jack

[Bret4207]

Jack- I'm thinking REALLY thin. The tape we use for "Beagling" our moulds is the stuff I want to try. I've never measured it but I'm betting it's in the .001-.002 area and it's soft enough to fold like paper. The glue might even help hold it.