Low Wall experts (?) identify this scuffing on ejected case!

[ohland]

137065
The old retrobate was flogging the 32-40 today, and he was having a helluva time getting some shells to chamber. He was pushing the round in and ejecting it, then using 600 grit to polish the brass down enough so it would seat. BEFORE anyone mentions sized diameter plus case walls has to be less than the chamber, I got it.

137066
Here is a close-up of the drag marks on the case, sorta like a narrow quarter moon. Note the scratches are all lengthwise to the case.

I have seen marks left by cases that are too long. I have seen cases banged up during extraction. But how could a Low Wall leave that kind of a mark? When extracted, the cases shoot right out the back. Block drops below the chamber.

Talk to me...

:veryconfu

[flounderman]

Looks like a ring in the mouth of the chamber

[Chill Wills]

Looks like a ring in the mouth of the chamber

Looks like one to me too. BUT, the trouble is not extraction but chambering so the ring, if there was one, does not cause chambering problems but extraction trouble so........
I will guess the loaded round has been crimped. Are you crimping the case as you seat the bullet?

[ohland]

Looks like one to me too. BUT, the trouble is not extraction but chambering so the ring, if there was one, does not cause chambering problems but extraction trouble so........
I will guess the loaded round has been crimped. Are you crimping the case as you seat the bullet?

He doesn't crimp (nor do I). I see the hint of a ring just behind the case mouth.

[Chill Wills]

OK, so...question? ....if your cases are sized, how does a chamber "ring", which by definition, is larger than the chamber, interfere with a loaded case which is smaller? Maybe I missed something?:grin:

Quote from the opening post: "BEFORE anyone mentions sized diameter plus case walls has to be less than the chamber, I got it."

[Jeff R]

Ohland,
When I go out on my front porch, I can see the Cheddar Curtain. I have a bore scope. It might be fun to look in there. If you are ever going through on Hi way 8, shoot me a pm.
Regards,
jeff

Rocketing towards 200 posts!

[bgmkithaca]

Give your chamber a real though cleaning then try it again-I have had similar looking brass from gunk built up in the neck in the past.

[Finnmike]

You likely have a "rung" chamber due to use of a filler in the case underneath the bullet. Improperly (or unwisely) used, they act like a piston slamming against the base of the bullet, and something has to give, usually the chamber. A chamber cast may tell the tale,

[GrayTech]

You likely have a "rung" chamber due to use of a filler in the case underneath the bullet. Improperly (or unwisely) used, they act like a piston slamming against the base of the bullet, and something has to give, usually the chamber. A chamber cast may tell the tale,
Finnmike, what would constitute improper or unwise use of a filler? I just got some dacron filler and intended to experiment a bit. I'm shooting a 270win with cast. I was under the impression dacron is consumed with the powder. Any advice would be most welcome.

[Finnmike]

I'm not an expert - I defer to others http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers
who have experience and recommendations. The wrong application of fillers is hazardous, and I for one do not use them. FWIW
and YMMV. Best to use a powder that is not position sensitive, or the proper one for the case.

[Mk42gunner]

Might try spinning a fired case coated with jeweler's rouge with a drill to ease the edge of the ring. Sometimes it doesn't take much to let the brass release for extraction.

Robert

[Tatume]

There's a lot of bad advice out there on fillers. Some very respected gunwriters have said things that are completely wrong in print, and there's always Internet advice that is wrong. There are several basic camps, and I am not going on the record as supporting any of them. To do so would be to invite a raging argument amongst people, some of whom will make claims they cannot substantiate. I don't want to be a part of that argument.

There is one thing almost everyone will agree on, and that is if you do it wrong it will damage your gun. So you have to make a decision on who you believe, or not use filler. After all is said and done, not using filler is the safest solution.

I will add, I've tried several different approaches to using fillers, and have not found a single instance in which I couldn't achieve equal or better accuracy without the filler.

P.s., Dacron is not consumed, it is ejected. If you shoot enough ammo you will be able to find it on the grass in front of your bench, and often you'll see it in the air after the shot.

[SSGOldfart]

I think you should have a look at your OAL as it appears your cases are touching the lands you may need to trim a little brass

[skeettx]

You need a chamber cast
I would suggest you have a short chambered gun and possibly
a short chambered breech seat gun
Cut the cases down in length and seat the bullet back a bit
Mike

p.s. or the barrel got set back and never fully rechambered, I would do the cast
and then maybe place a chamber reamer in the chamber to verify

[Chill Wills]

If you cast a chamber that has a ring - you won't get the chamber cast back out.
Well.... you can but not the way you wanted to.

[Dan4570]

I have had something like that out of a 45-70 #1 Remington Rolling Block with a new Douglass bbl before...
Cleaned everything really good, and got it working, then ended up with it again.

It has not done it for a very long time!! thank goodness.
I started shooting 30:1 lead and BP only in that rifle...OK stumpy carbine, but I have not seen the oddity casing thing any more, I also crimp the **** out of my rounds !
it was odd, the only time it ever did it was with some cheep factory ammo. (it was cheeper than buying empty brass at the time, so I was making empties) I try not to let it eat junk food any more.

One thing I don't do is not crimp, 38-55, crimped, .45 Colt, crimped, my 32-40, crimped, 45-70 and 45-90 allso get crimped. heck I crimp everything except .9mm and my 60 Army (no case to crimp or I would crimp it too!)

I blamed the oddity on poorly assembled factory ammo, and not enough crimp. I have not had any results as of yet to prove my hair-brained theory otherwise. So I am going to go with crimp, or as you stated, a lack there of.

I would suggest trimming cases, cleaning the chamber, and a crimp.
It may change things in a good way for you, and the round just like all the other BP cartridges out there, were designed to have the bullet crimped in place, and it should be done to obtain proper powder burn, and performance from the cartridge.

Good luck!

[rr2241tx]

Measure your brass. That will tell you where the issue lies. It looks like your brass is longer than the chamber and the mouth of the case is into the leade. The ring of scratch marks may be tool marks in the freebore portion of the chamber. It is very probable that your barrel has been set back slightly without having been rechambered. Not a big deal if it was shot breech seated by the previous owner, easily corrected with a chamber reamer.

[4060MAY]

looks like a broken piece of an old cartridge is stuck in the chamber had this happen in a Rolling Block in 40-70SS, pushed a patch in the barrel poured some lead in the chamber. let it cool...knocked out the broken piece...a bit larger than what is shown in your picture...but it may apply


I also have a 71-84 Mauser which is prone to leaving the neck in the chamber...big enough to push the next cartridge in and cause numerous problems

[leadman]

Is the boolit one with a gas check? Could also be the brass is too long. Is this brass reformed from another cartridge?
Can't recall where it was for sale but recently read an add for extra long 38-55 brass.

[ohland]

Is the boolit one with a gas check?
Is this brass reformed from another cartridge?

The boolit doing the best so far is the 321297, a 180gr w/GC
Old retrobate has sorted cases, some are true 32-40 with the crimp ring, others are 30-30 reformed.

Had to run an errand this morning.

Next few days look good, but Sat-Fri look to be rainy. We do need the rain, though.