Babbitt?

[tddeangelo]

So, I'm getting ready to start casting boolits, and I am reading about adding tin to COWW melt.

My father-in-law works in an industrial setting where he's told me he can get me all the babbitt I want.

I've seen some mention of using babbitt to add tin to the mix of a COWW melt. Good/bad idea? Free is good, but only if it's going to work.

Thanks!

[farmerjim]

It does not work. Send it all to me for disposal.
It not only adds tin to the mix, but also adds copper. 0.5% Cu in the mix will make the alloy harder and tougher without making it brittle.
I add Cu to all my alloys that need to be hard. Babbitt is the easiest way to do this, CuSO4 is the next easiest.

[tddeangelo]

Lol!

I'll see what I can get. When I first started getting tools and looking into casting, it was only for muzzleloader balls, and in that case, I didn't really want babbitt for that purpose. I have to check with him again, because I'm pretty sure he said there's a fair amount of it that can be had, and it won't cost me anything, I don't think.

I'm about ready to make some boolits, and they'll be 405FN's for my 45-70, so some tin in the mix seems like a decent idea from what I can read on the topic.

Also need to slug my rifle bore to be sure I size them correctly. I have a Marlin 1895, and I've read that the vast majority of 1895 shooters run 460's for best results, but I guess for the cost of a sinker and some time, I would know for sure.

[Budzilla 19]

Use it for sure, you won't believe how good your cast boolits turn out! And the cast boolits for rifles are super tough! I have driven some 30 calibers to 2500 fps in an '06. No leading so far. And yes ,free is gooooodddd!!!!!! Good luck to you.post your results if you don't mind.

[tddeangelo]

Good to know.... I'll talk to him and see what I can get.

[bangerjim]

There at least 15+ (common) different alloys of the metal called Babbitt. Check the Rotometals site for a partial example list. Do a web search for a HUGE list.

You need to know what is in it B4 plowing ahead and adding it correctly. Use the FREE alloy calculator spreadsheet found on here to calculate your mixes.

banger-j

[tddeangelo]

Thank you, and yes, I'd seen that there were a lot of possible concoctions. I'll be checking it out before adding it in. Hopefully, I can figure out what it is without too much trouble.

[gpidaho]

I have some Babbitt marked FERERATED METALS copper hard and an having problems with spout freeze on my Lyman mag 20 bottom pour. The pot is getting older and needs to be run higher on the thermostat than it use to, so maybe that's the problem not the Babbitt. The grand experiment continues. GP

[bangerjim]

Thank you, and yes, I'd seen that there were a lot of possible concoctions. I'll be checking it out before adding it in. Hopefully, I can figure out what it is without too much trouble.

If it is still in original foundry ingots, the maker's name and the industry trade name will be on there. And sometimes even the % make-up.......... if your lucky.

banger

[tddeangelo]

I doubt it will be in that state, unfortunately, as it's used for I forget what in a steel mill. I'm sure it'll be in some other form suitable for whatever they do with it. Could be a swag on figuring out it's make up, or heating and seeing where it melts for a rough idea? Don't know. Maybe someone where he works knows....he's on maintenance, but has access to stuff being disposed of.

One thing he already gets me is ceramic rods from control wires. When these rods snap, they toss them, but they remnants are 6-12" sections of oval or round ceramic rods. Perfect for knife sharpening!

[bangerjim]

You can always find a friendly scrap yard locally that will do an x-ray gun analysis of it for you to tell you the % make-ups. I know that % make-up for all the many alloys I have in my stores. You cannot really make your own alloys accurately without that info. Much better than melt temp/hardness/sound/weight and all the other "olde tyme" ways of guestimating what is in there.

banger

[tddeangelo]

Good to know. There's a recycler/scrap place about 2 miles from my house. Was going to contact them to see if I can take them the leftover scrap from my wheel weights, so maybe I can take in some babbitt at the the same time? I'll find out.

Thanks for the tip!

[Smoke4320]

yes get it analyzed so you know what you are working.. if making rifle bullets hopefully it will have a little copper in it..
great score :)

[tddeangelo]

Been texting with my FIL.....I asked if he still had access to it, and his response was, "Yeah, just tell me how much you need." :)

I asked if anyone there knows the allow composition. Maybe someone there knows and can solve this the easy way. I can hope...

[RogerDat]

They may well know, scrap yard will give you a detailed breakdown. "Most" Babbitt metal ranges from pretty good to freaking awesome. But I understand there are some that contain zinc, do not recall the amount or what it was used for. Stuff gets used for everything from bearings to breakaway keys on shafts.

Sounds like you FIL is doing you a solid.

[bangerjim]

Check this out for many MANY types of the metal alloy!

http://kappalloy.com/babbitt-class.php

"Babbitt" is not Babbitt!

banger

[tddeangelo]

I can guarantee, based on that link, that this will not be lead-based Babbitt. He's working in a large steel mill where they are processing enormous amounts of steel, working with massive equipment for moving huge amounts of weight. Presses, cranes, motors, furnaces, blowers, etc. From reading that page (link in post above), the lead-based uses don't seem to align well to any of that.

Glancing over the tin-based Babbitt alloys, there are varying percentages of tin, antimony, lead, and copper. Am I on the right track to view it as nothing harmful there, and all the tin content levels are fairly high, meaning I could get the tin I want from this? I would need to get an idea of the percentages to know how much to put in my melt, but it SHOULD serve the purpose?

He said some of the guys there who cast boolits are using the stuff that's being discarded and speak highly of it, so it sounds promising. Maybe one of those guys knows what the mix is....that's an avenue to getting some info, I guess.

I'll keep you posted on how this plays out. I think, not sure, that they use it for bearings, which would make sense, and when the bearings are worn, they just discard them. Then it's "up for grabs".

[bangerjim]

Today most big industrial bearings are either ball or roller bearings. Babbitt goes back a whole bunch of years!!! Became pretty much obsolete when race-type bearings became popular. It is used for holding stuff in place and other inustrial processes also. But there must still be a lot of places that pour bearings!

Babbitt bearing are much more "forgiving" than ball/roller bearings when it comes to alignments.
And they would probably be cheaper, if they last any time at all under the extreme industrial pressures of today's modern equipment.

Back then, when a bearing got loose, they just took it out, melted it down and repoured it, replenishing any lost metal. I had an old metal lathe like that many many years ago. Now all my lathes are using Timken roller bearings and ball thrust bearings.

Hope you get a load of Sn-based metal!

banger-j

[tddeangelo]

Thanks! I'll keep you posted. The area of the mill that has it is the area he used to work, but he since transferred to a different section (the other spot is not climate controlled in any way, so it's ridiculous in the winter and summer months...don't blame him for wanting out! LOL). He has a bunch of friends in the area that has the babbitt....he'd offered to get me some before (which is how I knew it was available), but I was only thinking of casting for muzzleloader balls at the time, so I wasn't interested.

So, it's not quite as convenient for him to get it as it once was, but he likes to have an excuse to visit with his buddies in that area, so before too long he'll go by there and get some. He asked how much I wanted, and I said, "As much as you're willing to carry!"

:)

[tddeangelo]

Got some babbitt today. I had thought it was worn bearings, but instead, it's 5lb ingots.

Here's a pic next to some 1lb Lyman lead ingots I made (for perspective):

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n566/tddeangelo/castboolits/A5E8E4AE-A46F-4D6D-AFC9-E9CF705541C1_zpsq2msoams.jpg

I checked United American Metals Corp website. I guessed COMPLETELY wrong on this stuff! It IS lead based.

Their Stonewall Babbitt is alloyed as follows:

10% Tin
14 3/4% Antimony
1/4% Copper
1/2% Arsenic
Balance (74 1/2%) lead

Pretty low tin content, unfortunately, but I can work with it, I would think?

[baogongmeo]

Got some babbitt today. I had thought it was worn bearings, but instead, it's 5lb ingots.

Here's a pic next to some 1lb Lyman lead ingots I made (for perspective):

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n566/tddeangelo/castboolits/A5E8E4AE-A46F-4D6D-AFC9-E9CF705541C1_zpsq2msoams.jpg

I checked United American Metals Corp website. I guessed COMPLETELY wrong on this stuff! It IS lead based.

Their Stonewall Babbitt is alloyed as follows:

10% Tin
14 3/4% Antimony
1/4% Copper
1/2% Arsenic
Balance (74 1/2%) lead

Pretty low tin content, unfortunately, but I can work with it, I would think?

If you don't get all that you can you're going to regret it later.

[tddeangelo]

He got all he could, and it might be all that's left. He'll keep an eye out for more and see if he can get more, but it might be all gone. The mill he works at changed up how they do bearings, and they aren't getting ingots anymore. The leftovers have been picked over at this point, but there may be some to be scrounged yet. If so, he'll get them for me. He brought me four 5-lb ingots today.

[RogerDat]

Pretty high tin content when you consider that linotype is only 4% Sn and 12% Sb and your Babbitt is hitting 10 Sn and 14 Sb, plus a little copper to toughen things up. Then a little arsenic to enhance heat treating / water dropping if you wanted to go that route.

So yes a really nice alloy for sweetening your other stuff. Using the alloy calculator from here.

3 oz. Pewter.
9.75 lb. plain lead
5.0 lb. your Babbitt

yields 15 lbs. of Lyman #2 at 5/5/89.7 + the tiny (but useful) amount of copper and arsenic. BHN of 14.7

Not exactly solder or pewter for "tin" but a most useful score. Congratulations.

[Buck Neck It]

Some guys get all the luck. Pardon me while I eat my liver. Do you have any extra?

[justingrosche]

Babbit bearing races are pretty easy to spot. Everyone I've ever seen has the grease zirc in the 12 O' clock position, while newer roller or brass races have them in the 2 O' clock position. I work in a steel mill as well and hunt for Babbitt in the scrap piles when I can.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Railroads used babbitt for axle bearings on rail cars. A good friend worked as a machine repairman with GM they were doing babbitt bearing in the main stamping plant into the 1990`s. Robert

[country gent]

Railroads, ship yards, machine shops, printing shops and used alot of babbit early on into the late 40s or 50s when roller bearings started taking over. Babbit was used due to the ease of fitting and working it. Lathe bearings mill bearing shapers and planers. Ship and rail cars bearings thrust and radial were all babbit. Could be poured fairly close to sive then machined and handscrapped to dead on fit accuracy. It makes good alloy for hardening bullet alloys and such. It can contain copper lead tin antimony bismuth silver and other materials