How to use a peep sight

[mattd]

I can shoot my open/rifle sights just fine, and scoped guns are easy. But I struggle w my peep sighted guns. My eyes are weird and I get some ghosting inside the peep. And if I can manage to get past that then I see the target clear for a second then it can get blurry, or at least my eye ends up focusing somewhere between the front sight and target. And I'm talking at only 50y. Tried changing the distance between my eye and the peep. Tried enlarging some of my peeps slightly. Try closing one eye, tried both open. Can't find anything that works. I'm I missing something? Besides the target.

[JohnMiller]

Mostly likely one those attachment for your glasses will do it for you, I don't know which version or what maker is the best but they are very popular and work well. http://www.meritcorporation.com/index-2.html just as an example

[leebuilder]

I experence the same. I have damage to my eyes, scuffing and ware at the point where i focus. I still practice with peep.sights. I have good days and not so good days. What helps me is shade and good target contrast.
be well

[Rustyleee]

Try a smaller peep not a larger one.

[NC_JEFF]

The only really clear picture I try to maintain is on the front sight post. The eye naturally centers the front post inside the "ghost ring" that the rest sight becomes. Its ok to quickly change focal points between target and front sight checking sight picture and site alignment. But I think I make all my shots into a "fuzzy" target with as crisp a front sight as my eyes can still maintain. Now some of you PMIs chime in with the correct answer please.

[dg31872]

Thank you, John Miller. I did not know about Merrit corporation . I will get in touch with them. I just got a new M1A and can not see the sights well and was dreading going to a scope. I wonder if the M1A rear sight can be drilled and tapped for their apperature sights?

[juzme]

Ditto all these problems folks have. It has gotten worse with my age so I've just junked the peeps.

[LynC2]

It would help your sight picture if you had a pair of shooting glasses with a + or - adjustment to your normal prescription that allows you to focus on your front sight. Another way is to use one of these inserts in a match hood on your rifle. I used one when I shot service rifle high power competition.
http://www.bjonessights.com/SR.html

[gnoahhh]

That sounds weird, and I doubt that jockeying the aperture diameters or using store-bought magnifying glasses will help. Were it me, I would sit my butt down in an optometrist's chair and get to the bottom of it. Eyes are the one thing I don't fool around with.

[pietro]

.

The best practice, for peep sight use, indicates that a peep sight aperture should be looked THROUGH, and not "AT", and placing the front sight "on-target".

For hunting use, I unscrew/remove the aperture, and shoot using the resulting "ghost ring".


.

[Ben]

mattd (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?29187-mattd)

You may need to discuss this problem with your eye Dr.
They can often times recommend a solution.

Ben

[gkainz]

same results with either eye?

[JSnover]

The only really clear picture I try to maintain is on the front sight post. The eye naturally centers the front post inside the "ghost ring" that the rest sight becomes. Its ok to quickly change focal points between target and front sight checking sight picture and site alignment. But I think I make all my shots into a "fuzzy" target with as crisp a front sight as my eyes can still maintain. Now some of you PMIs chime in with the correct answer please.

I've always done it that way.
The aperture is always fuzzy. The distance between the front sight and the target is so great, you won't ever see both clearly using only one eye.

[mattd]

I had corrective surgery years ago. Not lasic, which fades from what I hear, but full on lens replacement. Been seeing great ever since, and no eye doc visits since either. Don't really feel like I need one either except for this issue. But like I said...I can see everything fine when shooting open sights. It's just looking thru the ring that makes it difficult. On my bow I use the largest peep and see well with it beyond 60y. Thinking about that peep, it's pretty close to my ey and a large dia.

[rmcc]

The USA Shooting Team has this advice....." as a general rule, the front aperature should be as large as possible to maintain as much annular space around the target bull...this results in less eye movement resulting in less eye fatigue....."

I am 57 and my eyes are not what they used to be, bifocals and all. I put a globe front on my M1 Garand. I tried the above and my score went to 93% first time out.

[Ed Barrett]

I'm 73 and still like peep sights best for hunting.

[30calflash]

If you are older a larger diameter hole in the rear aperture should be the better way to go. If young or corrected the smaller may be better. It's all about how well you can see.

Are you using your master eye? Some folks are cross eye dominant. You can change this by blocking your eye with a piece of paper behind your eyeglass lens, to change your vision to your dominant side. The blocked eye will work for your non shooting eye also, helps prevent squinting which is additional work you don't need to do when firing a shot.

Eye doctor may not help, especially if correction is for more 'normal' use. I use a set of glasses that are at least 15 years old to shoot with, both pistol and rifle. This is why:

You are focusing on the FRONT SIGHT, not the rear sight or target. If you are firing under cover the lack of daylight can cause your pupil to open more, giving you less clear vision. If out from under the cover, in the daylight, it will help to see your front sight better.

If using a white target or target backer glare can be bothersome. Try using an off white backer, or a light /pastel color with the target darker or black. Use sight blac, a carbide lamp or a candle to blacken your sights, BOTH front and rear. The front will stand out better and the rear will not have any glare off it from possibly being backlit.

If you've an older set of glasses, try them. You won't harm your vision as the difference is much greater when you remove them, as told by my doctor. As a test hold your trigger finger out at arm's length and try to focus on your finger tip. Whatever glasses you use that allow this should work well for both rifle and pistol with sights.

When shooting don't look at the front sight too long. Your eyes can trick you or start to loose focus. Don't fuss the shot.

If you can't get the shot off in 3 - 6 seconds, look away from the sight, at something not too bright or dark, let your eye rest, take a breath and start over.

I'm 57, haven't shot much lately but did this routine a few years ago when firing in a pistol league, indoors, with open sights and a clip on aperture on my old specs. Called the shots well most of the time, except for those 'off' nights. HTH.

[30calflash]

Also, if you are using a center hold your focus may be drifting between the front sight and the target. Try a 6 o'clock hold, or even a sub 6/ line of white hold. This would be having some of the backer showing under the target, between it and the top of the front sight post.

[303Guy]

Interesting comments. I find that with peep sights there is a dark spot in the centre of the peep that focuses the front sight while looking at the target.

I must confess the concept of focusing on the front sight is very strange to me. I've never done that. I've always focused on the target and I've never had difficulty hitting what I aimed at. Maybe my eyes are just weird. I'll be trying out open sights again soon so I'll see how my eyes are doing.

[30calflash]

I must confess the concept of focusing on the front sight is very strange to me. I've never done that. I've always focused on the target and I've never had difficulty hitting what I aimed at. Maybe my eyes are just weird. I'll be trying out open sights again soon so I'll see how my eyes are doing.

I've heard of folks doing it that way also, but it's not the standard, typical way taught in most circles. If it works, keep working it!

Some older guys (70+) I shot ML with fired with open sights just fine. Several of them won in their class on a decent day. Your focal point is typically further away, so the front sight on a '63 Springfield can stand out quite well, even with the barrel mounted rear sight.

I think that many folks give up with sights way too soon. I worked with a guy that was a high master in NRA high power, the guy could shoot 1 MOA on his belly, prone with a sling, with match sights on a 308 M70. Really! The guy had coke bottle lenses in his glasses also. He never tested loads from a bench, always prone with the sling.

The point is he was one hard holding shooter and I think that if you work on your hold and trust the sight alignment/sight picture much good results will be seen downrange.

[Char-Gar]

I don't see you have a problem, just unfamiliar with peep sights. The human eye cannot focus on three plains at the same time. You look through the rear aperture (yes it will be fuzzy) and focus on the front sight. The target will also be fuzzy but that doesn't matter as the eye will seek the center of the target even if it is fuzzy.

If you can't focus on the front sight, THEN it is time to think something is wrong and perhaps get a set of lens that will enable you to focus on the front sight. I am 73 and still shoot peep sights very well.

[HollowPoint]

I've always been a decent shot using open iron sights. I guess it's due to all that time shooting my Daisy Red Ryder BB gun that helped me become a good shot.

I did a short stint in the local Boy Scouts at the request of one of our church's youth ministers. At the time, they were holding one of their annual Boy-Scout-Jamborees and they had no one to represent them in the shooting competition. It was held at the local National Guard Armory a couple of miles down the road from our home.

Yea, back then it wasn't considered "Child Abuse" or "Child-Endangerment" for a kid who worked on a ranch to have a pocket knife in his pocket or to learn how to shoot a gun.

I'd never shot with Peep-Sights before and that's what the training rifles that the National Guard was using back then. They were .22 caliber Peep-Sighted rifles. In spite of that, I went in with high hopes; knowing I was a good shot. The folks that talked me into entering this "Jamboree/Shooting Competition only did so because they thought I had a good chance at winning them some notoriety.

Man; I was shooting shotgun patterns. I just couldn't figure out these (new to me) Peep-Sights. Max distance was only 25 or 30 yards if I remember correctly. It was indoors with each shooter on a separate lane and with separate bullet traps. As an elementary school aged kid, the utter humiliation was almost more than I could bare.

I was so used to the front post and rear buck-horn open sights on all of the other guns I'd shot at that age that the Peep-Sights just threw me for a loop.

Now days it's just the opposite. I can't see open sights clear enough to do any thing but waste bullets. I need Peep-Sights to increase my depth of field. I've gotten pretty good at using them. If my long guns don't wear a scope, They're fitted with a set of Peep-Sights.

I guess that makes me kind of the opposite of alot of the guys posting responses to this Peep-Sight thread.

HollowPoint

[W.R.Buchanan]

Charles has the right answer here in post #21. All this talk about bad eyes and such is a way overblown excuse for not understanding how to use the aperture sight.

All you need to be able to do is get the Front Sight in sharp focus. The Front Sight is automatically centered in the aperture. The Front Sight is then placed on the fuzzy image of the target, then you pull the trigger, all while keeping the Front Sight in focus. There is no shifting of focus back and forth between the target and the Front Sight.

If you are shooting at a game animal then you would focus on the animal and define where you want to hit it,,, then shift your focus to the Front Sight and keep it there. You know where you want the bullet to go, it is just a matter of putting the Front Sight there and pulling the trigger.

The reason why this is so hard for so many people is because Everybody was taught to shoot with open sights when you were young and you could focus and refocus on 3 different things rapidly. This didn't make it right.

I was not taught about the Importance of the Front Sight in the Air Force in 1968 so apparently the Military was not teaching it either.

I had to learn this by going to "Front Sight! Shooting School" when I was 52,,, 13 years ago. It took me a long time to drive it into my head! I finally got it, and you can too.

An aperture acts exactly like a lens. It is all about the amount of light transmission the hole allows.

I personally use Merit Discs on my Target Rifles simply to establish what size I need for that light condition to bring the Front Sight into focus. It is usually pretty close but it can change depending on the conditions. Having several discs with different size holes is another way. Once you establish what size hole works best for you it probably won't change much at all over the years. Mine haven't changed over three sets of prescriptions in 6 years. I am 65 and wear glasses nearly full time.

I wear progressive lenses to shoot and obviously have to move my head around to get the sweet spot of the lens in line with the sights, however once I get the Merit dialed in so that the front post is clear it becomes all about Sight Picture and Trigger Control.

The Sight Picture part is the Clear Front Sight in position on the fuzzy target. The Trigger Control part is,,, well,,, all about when you decide to break the shot. Unless you are shooting off a rest, you can't stop the gun from moving so you have to figure out when the Front Sight is going to be in the right position to make a hit,,, and let fly!

One last thing,,, By using a Merit Adjustable Iris you can change it until your Front Sight becomes sharp and in focus. What ever setting you find that works will probably only work right for that one particular lighting condition. IE; shooting away from the sun. Shooting towards the sun will require you to change it as the amount of light going thru the hole is different. However the changes will be small.

Lenses focus light. Holes also focus light and this is evident if any of you ever built a "Pin Hole Camera." I built one when I was 8 years old in the Cub Scouts. Didn't figure out why it worked until years later.

Guys,,, I swear to you this is all there is too it. Start by shooting your gun with Peep Sight off a rest so you can concentrate on focusing on the Front Sight. This takes many of the variables off the list, and allows you to concentrate on one thing.

Focusing on the Front Sight!

I might add that there is no free lunch here and just because you know the secret isn't going to make you an Olympic Class Shooter.

You will have to practice and practice some more. But if you can drive this point home at least you'll be practicing correctly! You've done it wrong for your whole life. Time to upgrade. I might add that you are never too old or have too bad a eyes to learn this. It's a mechanical thing and believe me you CAN DO IT!!!

Randy

[mattd]

Thanks guys! This is what I was looking for in my original post. Figured there might be a technical answer. I was practicing focusing on the front sight in the living room tonite. Going to be tough to break the old habit.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Mattd: Just keep after it, you'll get it.

And you're right it is hard to break the old habit,,, but not impossible!

Randy

[303Guy]

Well, I don't have a peep sight on any of my 22 lr's but now I want to fit one and see how I do with it. I have more 22's than I have use for anyway (and I've just bought 500 rounds of 22 ammo. Woo hoo!)

Focusing on the front sight is moot now. I couldn't focus on the front sight if I wanted to. I'm not sixteen anymore.:roll:

[Cmm_3940]

I too am past the point where I can get open irons to work. All of my rifles without scopes have been retrofitted with apertures. I have one of the Merit adjustable apertures on my M1903. It works great and I wish I had more of them. I also put a 'Merit device', an adjustable aperture attached to a suction cup, on a pair of slipover shooting glasses for handgun shooting.

-Chris

[Von Gruff]

I am never going to see 60some years again but I do see the front sight on my rifles. I have built a couple of Martini's ( a Henry and an Enfield) and a couple of Lee Speed sporters (a 303 and a 400) and made aperture sights for them all. A custom DWM 7x57 with a Rigby bolt aperture has taken game out to 185yds with no trouble and I have been wearing glasses since 1982.
Animals are not hard when you trust your sight but paper shooting may require a different approach to target shape to get the best out of your load testing.

[gmsharps]

I wear progressive lens glasses and they really suck shooting my BPCR rifle using a vernier peep site. I take my glasses off when I go prone and I can the front site perfectly through the peep hole. Since everything else is fuzzy this helps me concentrate on the front site and not get distracted.

gmsharps

[W.R.Buchanan]

Peter: The Front Sight can be brought into sharper focus by varying the size of the aperture.

When I am laying in bed in the morning or wake up at night I can not focus on my digital clock to read the time. I don't have my glasses on which normally take care of that function.

I take my right index finger and thumb and make a hole. I then slowly close the hole until the clock comes into focus.

Try it,,, it works,,, and it demonstrates how the aperture works as a lens. I am actually doing it as I speak by taking my glasses off and using my hand to focus on the text I am writing. Oh,,, my glasses are back on now. :mrgreen:

All that matters is the Front Sight. It doesn't even have to be completely in sharp focus. On my M2 Springfield, and my #4 Mk1 I have Merit discs. I can make the Front Sight really sharp by adjusting those.

On my Garand I am stuck with what size hole is there and I have to work with that . It is not as sharp a focus as the other guns but it is still very usable. IE: the hole size is close to what I end up with for the Merit Discs. Close enough for the type of shooting I do with that gun. I might even get another Aperture for the Garand sight and drill out the hole to the size my Merit discs are.

Try these simple examples for yourself. I haven't lied to you yet.

Randy

[milrifle]

Man, I'm the other way around. I can't see open sights. I do better with peep sights. When I shoot a rifle with open sights, I use a home made diopter. I wrapped a piece of small electrical wire around the extractor groove of a .45 case and formed the rest of it where it clips onto the frame of my eye glasses. I look through the flash hole and it really clears up the sights. Without it, I can't tell what elevation I have as the top edge of the rear sight is too fuzzy. I do not need the .45 case to shoot my rifles with peep sights, but not all of them have peeps. I may break down and buy the iris that sticks to my glasses, but I have not done so as of yet. The fact that it is adjustable is intriguing.

[303Guy]

I take my right index finger and thumb and make a hole. I then slowly close the hole until the clock comes into focus.Hee hee! I do that in supermarkets to read the labels!:mrgreen: I try not to let people see me doing it. [smilie=1:

I've just had a play with my five-groove Long Branch which has a ladder sight which has a smaller aperture. I still can't focus proper on the front blade but it is sharp enough. Changing focus from the front sight to a target is a small change so the aperture is doing just what you describe. My idea with this rifle is to use the aperture for general shooting and the flip up ladder for more deliberate shooting as well as longer range target. A V sight focuses the front sight too for my eyes if the size is right and the relative distances are right.

I've played with fitting an aperture sight on the charger bridge but I found a small U sight to be much better at that distance.

I just had a play with an SMLE sights. That small rear sight U focuses the front blade just fine. I can look at a target and the front blade is as sharp as. That's from indoors looking out a window on a cloudy, rainy day. Light conditions will no doubt change things a bit. Perhaps a shroud over the front blade would help and in my case, a shroud over the rear sight too.

[HollowPoint]

On my Enfield rifle, even the smaller hole in the ladder sight was to big for me to get a clear view of the front sight on this rifle so I took apart one of those Merit Adjustable Aperture sights with the suction cup on it and fitted it onto my Enfield flip up rear ladder sight.

I removed the factory front sight from that same Enfield and replaced it with a home made Globe Front Sight. I made this Globe Front Sight with four fine cross hairs like you see in a typical scope. So now I have what essentially is a zero-powered scope picture when I look through my Peep Sights. It's as clear as looking through a scope but with no magnification. I did the same with my K31 before mounting a scope on it.

Unless we can find ways to get around it, getting old really sucks for us shooters.

HollowPoint

[Char-Gar]

A few years back, I took a rifle equipped with a peep/receiver sight to my eye doctor and he made me a set of lens that bring the front sight and everything past that into sharp focus. I can see not only the front sight, but the target as well. He put a very large bifocal in the bottom so I could adjust sights and do stuff at arms length without taking off the glasses. These lens work to perfection for me.

I started shooting 50 foot 22 LR matches when I was 10 and so I learned the ins and outs of shooting peep sights very early and didn't have any relearning to do. Even as I got older and started to hunt deer and other game, I preferred a good peep sight on a rifle and I still do. I fit all of my good rifles with such sights. Below are just a few.

[zomby woof]

You need dedicated shooting glasses. I have +.50 - +.75 added to my prescription. +.75 is for pistol, M1 Carbine and Ar15. +.50 goes to long barreled rifles.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Charles: that NRA Sporter looks real nice!!! I am trying to piece one together but all I have is the barreled action with Lyman #48 Sight Mounted and the buttplate. I need the M2 barrel band and then I can get Boyd's to make a NRA Sporter Stock for me.

I feel that this gun is "THE" Classic All American Bolt Action Sporting Rifle and everything else is simply a bad copy.

PS I'm keeping that picture!

Randy

[EDG]

If your rear aperture is too small it will look out of round and will have belly button lint inside it. When it is that small use a larger aperture.

The front aperture should be large enough to make a nice band of white around a 6" to 8" black bull at 100 yards.
Your band of white probably needs to appear somewhere between 1" and 2" wide when compared to the black bull.

Then center the front aperture around the bull - even if both are furry you can still find the center.
Keep the front centered in the rear. It can be furry too. Just keep the front centered in the rear while keeping the front on the bull.
You should be capable of holding groups near 1" with a good rifle. I can do that off of a bench rest sometimes and my eyes are even older than yours.

A couple of world class women shooters once practiced at my range. They shot 1" ten shot groups prone with Anschutz .22LRs using aperture sights.
Those sights work really well when you know how to fit them to a bullseye.

[Motor]

I'm like "milrifle" I can't see the rear sight well enough to shoot unless I use a diopter. This is why my M39 Finn now has a rear aperature plus I glued on a fiber optic onto the front.

I also get what "EDG" calls "belly button lint" when I try to use my son's M1A. The peep is simply too small for me.

I'm currently looking into how I can put a ghost ring on my 500 S&W revolver.

Motor