PDA

View Full Version : RB's & Slugs In a Smoothbore



longbow
03-11-2008, 10:27 PM
2 actually!

I finally got out to the range and I think I said I would post results good or bad. Well, they weren't good but a bad day at the range is better than the best day of work right? Now what does a guy that works at a range say?

Anyway, I loaded up a selection of slugs and shot some through a cylinder bore and some through my Browning BPS with I/C choke.

Accuracy was less than stellar - nothing smaller than about 5" at 50 yards.

slugs were:

1) 0.662" RB (437 gr.) with attached basewad AQ style and in a WWAA shotcup
2) 0.690" RB (475 gr.) in a WWAA shotcup
3) 0.735" RB (580 gr.) on card and fiber wads
4) home made Foster slug (445 gr.) sized to fit in WWAA shotcup
5) Brenneke's (440 gr.) from a custom designed mould and provided by a friend
6) a home made Brenneke style slug at 610 gr. (teardrop shaped)

The bore size ball, bore size teardrop Brenneke and he 0.690" balls were all shot from the cylinder bore gun. The rest were shot from the Browning.

The best shooters were the 0.662" RB's shot from my BPS and the 0.735" RB's shot through a cylinder bore single shot. Both gave about 5" at 50 yards.

The 0.690" RB's gave about 6" shot from the cylinder bore.

The home made Foster which I sized down to fit snugly into a WWAA shotcup gave very poor accuracy. Last time out I shot them as cast and very tight in the shotcup but they gave better accuracy - not great but better. Odd they have a very heavy nose and very thin skirt filled with hot melt. I expected better, oh well.

My friend's Brenneke's didn't do well either but the teardrop Brenneke's showed some promise. I may do a few more tests of each with different wads attached.

The 0.690" RB's were loaded a while ago with Unique, the rest were loaded over Blue Dot as it is all I had that was suitable. Based on equivalent weight slug loads and buckshot loads I chose 2 charges which should have been "light" loads and generally were. I used 38 grs. of Blue Dot under the 3 approx. 1 oz. slugs and 35 grs. under the 0.735" RB and 610 gr. Brenneke. I have loads listed to 44 grs. Blue Dot for a 610 gr. slug so these were conservative. Hulls were Fiocchi and primers Win 209.

I wasn't actually expecting the powder to work well under the light slugs but it did and seemed quite consistent with moderate recoil. The 0.662'' RB's gave a sharp crack and seemed to shoot quite flat.

The 0.735" RB's which I expected to give me a thump really didn't give a good powder burn (so no thump) and I got one blooper. Accuracy wasn't bad though. The 0.662" RB's gave more recoil.

The 610 gr. teardrop Brenneke was really, really unpleasant to shoot! Not much heavier than the 0.735" RB, just bore size and on the same wad column (attached though) but WOW WHAT RECOIL! OUCH! If accuracy had been good it would be a devastating load.

While I can understand the plastic shotcups sealing better where used and maybe building a little more pressure for good burn I am surprised at the huge difference between the 0.735" RB and the 610 gr. Brenneke which both had the load and same card wads.

I'm not expecting one hole groups by any means but accuracy has got to be better than this at 50 yards. So far the best groups I have gotten are from BPI AQ slugs and those were about the same at 100 yards as I am getting at 50 with these slugs. I guess I still got work ahead of me!

Regardless, it was a nice day and felt good to be shooting, and at least learning what doesn't work.

Longbow

quasi
03-14-2008, 05:14 PM
Interesting results, please keep it up. Have the real estate values gone up in Castlegar as much as they have in the East Kootenay's?

longbow
03-14-2008, 08:04 PM
I don't know about interesting. I seem to be able to get consistently bad groups at 50 yards! Some worse than others.

I'm repeating myself here but I haven't seen your name before so...

I have been messing around with shotgun slugs for about 30 years but not really seriously. As you know there are very few areas restricted to shotguns in Canada so there has been no real need to get good accuracy from a shotgun or even shoot slugs. However, I have always had an interest for whatever reason and over the last few years have tried:

- Brenneke
- Round balls of various sizes in shotcups and naked
- Home cast Lyman Foster slugs
- AQ slugs
- Home made AQ style
- Home made Brenneke style
- a variety of factory Foster loads

So far the Brenneke's and AQ's have done best out of my gun(s) and I would say the AQ is so far the best of the best. I was running about 6" at 100 yards from my smoothbore Browning BPS with factory slug barrel I/C choke. Very limited testing though.

I guess unlike some, I think 6" at 100 yards from a smoothbore isn't really bad. Plus after reading lots of articles the indications were that 4" was a realistic goal. I would be quite happy with consistent 4" to 5" at 100 yards.

I thought I was on to something with paper patched Lyman Fosters but still got flyers and while generally better accuracy, still not good enough and not consistent.

The AQ's and Brenneke's I've shot did well but they are a little pricey for a regular diet.

I am in the process of modifying a Foster mould to make it bore size since mine casts at 0.715" so is well undersized.

I will also be making some AQ style slugs from 0.735" round balls.

I think using bore size in a cylinder bore is going to improve things - we'll see.

SluggerDoug has a really good post on improving Foster accuracy. He worked hard to get good results.

The best I can say so far is I am learning what doesn't work!

As for land prices in Castlegar - yes they are going up but not at the rate of the Okanagan. I'm not sure how they compare to the East Kootenays though.

Where are you from?

Longbow

SluggerDoug
03-15-2008, 12:41 PM
LongBow,
When you tried the paper patched Lyman Foster, what was your wad column and powder charge? Also, did you roll crimp or fold crimp.
I see that you tried your .735 DIA RB, did it lead the bore much?
Doug

longbow
03-15-2008, 01:11 PM
SluggerDoug:

I tried paper patching the Lyman Foster slug many years ago using Lyman recipe using Unique with a WWAA wad with petals cut off fold crimped and more recently with a hard card wad column and roll crimped.

Oddly (to me anyway) I had better results with the WWAA wad. To Qualify that a bit I used pure lead for the slug with the WWAA wad and range scrap air cooled on the hard card wad. It may well be that the soft lead slug was a better choice, though in both cases the slugs were paper patched to bore diameter.

I only shot 5 of the 0.735" balls but no leading evident. I had loaded a few of each type of slug to try 5 of those I had doubts about and 10 of the ones I thought would do well. Most of the bore size slugs were lubed and shooting was pretty limited so that may also explain lack of leading.

The results were a bit of a surprise. The RB's seemed to do reasonably well at 50 yards - certainly better than I expected. I will be loading more of the 0.735" RB's and beefing up the wad column with a plastic gas seal and 1/2" hard card wads. I will likely lube the RB's or use a lubed wad under the RB. I will also make some of these into an AQ style for comparison.

I have to admit that I never put in the effort you have to get the Fosters to shoot well but all in all I prefer a solid slug anyway so am leaning towards the RB in AQ style or a Brenneke solid with attached basewad.

My long range (no pun intended) plan is to stay with bore size slug/RB and see if I can make a rifling jig to make a slow twist choke tube of 1:100 or so to make a kind of modern Paradox gun. I don't know why but the idea has always appealed to me.

Dixie makes their slugs "square" like the old Paradox slugs and they seem to perform well in modern rifled shotguns so maybe the easier route is to pick up an NEF or H&R rifled gun. Currently I am limited to smoothbore so that is what I am playing with.

I hope to get some more casting done and get out to the range next weekend to try more RB's/AQ's and also to test some paper patched .44 mag loads for no34570 which I am delinquent on. I'll post the RB/AQ results here.

Longbow

SluggerDoug
03-16-2008, 10:43 AM
Longbow,
Really good work your doing, thanks for sharing it with us. Do you have any pics of your home made slugs and attached wad RB's?
If you would try some of my Slugs I would send you some 1oz rifeled slugs plus the hard card and fiber wads needed to duplicate my orig. load. You would have to have some IMR 7625. It would be interesting to see your results, I would bet 1/2 your current 5" at 50 yds.
I still have lots of components left even though I havent loaded any in 20 yrs.
Slugger Doug

longbow
03-16-2008, 01:25 PM
SluggerDoug:

I don't have any assembled right now but will be making some up shortly. I have just been using 1/8" nitro card wads drilled and screwed 4 high to the base of the slug. They were assembled in a jig.

Felt would be better but I don't have any and nothing available locally at all so I have to order from BPI or Precision Reloading. The nitro card wads seem to hold together well enough but if the edges aren't even or get shredded I'm sure accuracy will suffer.

I have also made AQ style slugs using high strength hot melt glue poured into a form and attached as a skirt then paper patched. Results were pretty good, I just need a quicker and easier assembly method.

I will post some pictures maybe later today if I can.

The thin skirt Foster slug I made is here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=244534&highlight=longbow+foster#post244534

post #8

I figured this one would be good with such a heavy nose but so far it hasn't done too well. I filled the thin skirt with hot melt glue to support it and loaded them into WWAA shotcups. This is the mould I modified to make the teardrop Brenneke. With a different core pin it will make a Foster, teardrop Brenneke or more conventional Brenneke. It now has has 2 bore diameter bands. I find shotcups a pain in the butt so bore size is where I'm headed.

Anyway, I will post pics as soon as I have some.

Thanks for the offer and maybe later I will take you up on it. Much appreciated.

Longbow

longbow
03-16-2008, 09:07 PM
Pic's as promised.

The teardrop Brenneke is a little wrinkled as all I have left are the rejects. I was worried the card wads might fail but they seemed to hold up and shooting this one was downright unpleasant! Not a very heavy load of Blue Dot but that bad boy kicked. All holes were round but the group was 8" + at 50 yards so not good. I am thinking the wad support may not be good enough and the screws may be bending a bit. I am planning to make another core pin to give it a straight shank - bigger at the bottom but smaller at the top to keep weight about the same. It'll look kinda like a mushroom.

The Brenneke is a little undersized and shot poorly but I think I was supposed to use some Teflon wrap my friend sent with the slugs - doh! Next time.

The RB is a 0.735" but I haven't actually shot one that size yet with attached wad. I have shot 0.690" and 0.662" with 16 ga. card and loaded in a WWAA shotcup. Those worked pretty well. I have also shot the 0.690" RB with a hot melt glue skirt then paper patched and those worked pretty well too.

Longbow

quasi
03-17-2008, 12:06 AM
Longbow, I am in Calgary. I am thinking of moving to southern B.C., Calgary has become a rageing Metropolis, gangbanger gunfights 2 or 3 times a week. Traffic jams from 6 am to 9 pm.

longbow
03-18-2008, 07:42 PM
quasi:

I moved out of Vancouver to Castlegar in 1981 and wouldn't even consider living in a big city again. I got laid off from my job and went up North to Kemano then Yellowknife for a few years but wound up back here. It is a nice place - if you like hunting, fishing, camping, shooting, archery, boating, etc. and don't like traffic jams and malls.

Housing is climbing in price though. I bought the place in 1989 for $65,000.00 and now it is assessed at $230,000.00. Cheaper than the Okanagan though. My house is old but not bad shape and my yard is on the bank of the Columbia River. Nice view - I'm looking at it now.

I think I will stay awhile.