Varget in .308 Win.

[oldblinddog]

So I got a new mold from NOE the other day, a 311041 to be exact, and cast up a few boolits. Just did a quick session yesterday pm and made 10 good ones to try. Sized .310 and lubed with Lyman moly, Hornady gas checks they came out at 185 gr. I'm wanting to use Varget and Lyman shows a starting load with a 311299 of 28 grs. So I take a wag and load 25 grs. in a Rem case with a 9 1/2M primer. .004" crimp. From my Rem 700 SPS with 20" barrel. See the first 4 shots below.

This was at 50 yds.

[Blammer]

Ding! Ding! Ding! you have a winner!

[oldblinddog]

Ding! Ding! Ding! you have a winner!

Yes, I think so. Going to work it up a bit and see where it goes. Here is all nine (one of the 10 ended up with a boogered up nose when I dropped it).

[EMC45]

Very nice.

[luvtn]

The link doesn't show for me. Definitely it shows a lot of promise. What velocity to you think you are getting with that load?
lt

[oldblinddog]

I have no idea what the velocity is but a guess would be between 1500 - 1700 fps. A friend has a chronograph and as soon as I get the chance I will see what it really does.

[303Guy]

Very nice indeed.

I've thought that Varget was a good reduced load cast boolit powder for a while now.

You might try the same load with a tuft of Dacron to position the powder. Remember that there other things beside the load and barrel harmonics and the alignment of the planets that affect accuracy. Things like boolit imperfections. Meaning simply that your load may be perfect as it is. That said, do try other load combinations and see what happens.

[CJR]

Congrats on your very nice groups! Though I have never used Varget, some people at my range have recommended it. However, I have extensively researched Varget and found that many think it's the best thing since "sliced-bread". But, on the other hand, there also appears to be an equal amount of people who tried it and were not impressed with its accuracy performance or its insensitivity to temperature. I hope that's not an indication that Varget has a Quality Control(QC) issue in the manufacturing process. If poor QC is the issue, we fortunately have other options that equal or surpass Varget's performance.

Best regards,

CJR

[303Guy]

Going by where Varget is made and who for, I wouldn't think it's a QC issue. I don't use it myself, not because it doesn't work for me but because I prefer a case filling powder with just a little more performance or lower peak pressure and that powder is H4350 which as I understand it has the same formulation but just burns a little slower. I don't want to keep two powders that look the same for obvious reasons and they do look the same. H4350 has larger kernels which can only be distinguished by measuring.

[oldblinddog]

I have found (in a very short time) using Varget that it likes pressure, hence the .004" of crimp, and that it likes magnum primers. In my J-word loads with standard LR primers accuracy is mediocre and I have gone to using magnum primers exclusively.

I haven't used any H4350 in a long time but when I did it did not have the gold tint that Varget has. Have they changed the color? The IMR 4350 that I have is a dark charcoal color.

[MT Chambers]

Very good group, with a load that has been used by some in CBA competitions, did you try moving your sights 3" either left or right(doesn't matter)?

[oldblinddog]

The pic is rotated 90* left (unsure as to why), the aim point is the paster to the left (up). The rifle is not sighted for this load, but I knew that so I put the paster at the top since I was unsure where it would fall or if it would even be accurate. I was expecting it would shoot low.

[oldblinddog]

So, a couple of days ago I finally get to the range again with some new loads of 28 grs and 30 grains of Varget. Since I had changed the scope on my .308 because I'm moving the previous scope to my .338 Win Mag (a work in progress), I started with the 28 gr load at 25 yds. Everything is perfect, shooting into less than 3/8", so I moved out to 100 yds. Group was a disapointing 3". The 30 gr load was on the order of 10+" [smilie=b:

[TXGunNut]

Don't be discouraged, that 28 gr load may just work out yet. A 3" group isn't terrible and is likely only a tweak or two away from a 1.5" group.

[oldblinddog]

That was in my 20" bbl 1-10 twist rifle. I have not shot that load in the 12" twist rifle. I have been on the road a lot with loading going on during one stay at home and shooting the next. Will post more data as I gather. Also, will do some chrony work on these loads.

[EdS]

Hi oldblinddog: I've been reluctant to try the 31141 in my .308s due to seating depth concerns. Please tell us you overall length and where on the boolet you are crimping. Thanks, Ed

[tomme boy]

Try different neck tension, and seating depth. I size mine to 0.310" and use a 0.310" RCBS neck expander.

What alloy are you using? How old are the bullets that you cast?

[oldblinddog]

The oal is 2.535" and is taper crimped on the driving band behind the crimp groove. I had adjusted the crimp to be more firm and may have overdone that some. I am going to continue testing the 28 gr load and have a few loaded with the bullet seated to the crimp groove and less crimp. Will load some also at the original seating depth and less crimp, i.e. where I have the die adjusted now.

The alloy is one part hardball and two parts 30 to 1 which works out to ~95.33-2.67-2. The boolits are checked with Hornady checks, sized .310 and lubed with Lyman moly. Cases were neck sized and run through an "m" die prior to boolit seating. The boolits were no more than a couple of days old when loaded and fired.

138709

These are 2.487" oal.

[Mauser48]

Varget is a match made in heaven for soooo many rifle cartridges.

[oldblinddog]

Varget is a match made in heaven for soooo many rifle cartridges.

I like it!

[oldblinddog]

New pics! The first is 9 in a group that consisted of the 311041 over 28 gr. Varget and oal at 2.437" , i.e. at the crimp groove as depicted in the previous post. The second group is 7 with the boolit seated to 2.535". I had ten of those but had to stop shooting to run some antelope does off the range (for the second time!) and put the other three into a different group, the first shot of which went to point of aim but then it opened to a 1 1/2" triangle. Groups fired at 50 yds.

[250kt]

Target shot at 100 yards. Rem .308, 20 inch barrel. The noe 165 XCB and various charges of Varget. 30 grain was 4 in one hole, probably should've been 5.

[250kt]

Another shot...

[250kt]

The 28 grain was first , so fired 2 outlets hence 7 shots. Not sure whether or not the two out of group were first or not. Barrel was clean at start

[Tenbender]

I have a beautiful Ruger MKll 308 that I really don't need. It has a very nice Bausch & Lomb 3X9 and I installed a $100. Timney trigger. That lowered the trigger pull from 6.5 lb's to 2.75 lb's. This is the Ultra Light with the 20" barrel and like new . Had it on GB with no results so I'm going to cast some 180 grainers and burn some lead. Hope it shoots well enough for a hunt this fall. I might as well put my rifles to use. I'm a 30 cal. guy anyway. LOL

[oldblinddog]

Fired this group this afternoon with boolits from my new 311 188 FN GC mold. This is the 30 Hunter. The load is Rem case, 33 gr. Varget , Rem 9 1/2M, Lyman Super Moly, and oal is 2.640". Sized, lubed, and checked they weighed 191 grs. This group is the first five out of the barrel, fired at 50 yds from my 12" twist Rem 700. Once I get the scope dialed in, I'll move it to 100 yds. As the barrel warmed up the group opened up somewhat. Also, keep in mind that this pic is rotated 90 left.

[oldblinddog]

Here is the latest: 33 gr. Varget and the 30 Hunter. The first shot (which is out of the pic low and right) was a cold bore shot. The next 3 went into almost the same hole. The last shot chambered with some resistance and I knew it would not go to the same place. This was the 12 twist rifle again. This rifle seems to like to shoot when it is cool. Subsequent groups opened up considerably. I think it is still getting "broken in" to the Lyman Super Moly lube.

[THerbert]

I've been using Varget for decades, it's a great powder, and produces some incredibly consistent results for me in .308. Now, before you all call me crazy, it's important to know that Varget is nothing more than temperature-stabilized IMR 4064. You can exchange it grain-for-grain with Varget, and vice-versa, with the caveat of course that your you reduce the load by 10% and work back up, as you would when changing any component of an established load. Here's an example of chronograph data from last year, of .308 loads shot from my Remington 700 SPS Varmint, with the original 1-12 twist barrel:



String:
1



Date:
4/26/2014



Time:
3:53:10 PM



Grains:
168



Hi Vel:
2789



Low Vel:
2760



Ave Vel:
2777



Ext Spread:
29



Std Dev:
8








Velocity
Power Factor
Ft/Lbs


2783
467.544
2888.932


2783
467.544
2888.932


2783
467.544
2888.932


2789
468.552
2901.402


2766
464.688
2853.746


2772
465.696
2866.14


2760
463.680
2841.378


2777
466.536
2876.489


2777
466.536
2876.489


2783
467.544
2888.932



The temperature at the time of this string was about 90 F., and the shots were about 15 seconds apart for the entire 10-shot string. The load was 43.5 grains of 4064 over a Federal Large Rifle Magnum primer, and the projectile was one of those J-word SMK's, in Winchester commercial brass, fire-formed to that rifle's chamber, and neck-sized only.

[THerbert]

It just occurred to me that I have another .308 sitting in the safe that I just might have to try some boolits in. It's a Remington 788 that I bought when I was in high school, and I loaned it to my father-in-law almost 20 years ago. Just got it back in January when he passed away; it's been so long since it has been here that I forgot I had it! It has a 1-in-10 twist, so it should stabilize boolits pretty well at cast velocities. I know it shot really well with 150 grain J-word projectiles at 23-2400 fps, well below 1" at 100 yards. The only 30-caliber mold I have is a Lyman 311466, which is a 160 grain RNGC. I may have to look around for something more suitable.

[50target]

Haven't been playing with the 308 long and not with boolits. Use Nosler Custom Competition J word in 168 gr. Load with Varget is 46.0 grains, Federal GM primer, R-P once fired commercial case and 2.785" oal. In my Savage Model 11, heavy barrel Dick's special. It is a one hole gun. This load is safe in my gun and is shown here for informational purposes only. If used by anyone you assume all liability. Will have to try it with cast as I have an RCBS 30 cal. 165 gr. Silh mold.
Bob

[oldblinddog]

Well let's see your boolit targets!

I haven't put anything up because I just moved back to Texas from Wyoming and haven't been able to set up my casting/reloading table yet. I wish that I could because I need to, but business has to come first.

My j-bullet load in my Rem 700 Varmint is a Nosler 165 gr BT with 43.0 gr. Varget in a Rem case with a Rem 9 1/2M primer and oal of 2.799". It shoots into less than 1/2 " at 100 yds. The Nosler Trophy Grade factory ammo with this bullet shoots 3/8" or less groups in this rifle.

I'm going to work up a good load with the 30 Hunter and then proceed with the 30 XCB boolit.

[oldblinddog]

Target shot at 100 yards. Rem .308, 20 inch barrel. The noe 165 XCB and various charges of Varget. 30 grain was 4 in one hole, probably should've been 5.

Those are outstanding!

[250kt]

Thanks! Here's another group from the 30 grain charge...and another at 35 grains, that one has to be moving pretty good, still need to chrono. These were a different day, may try some more tomorrow

[Mike H]

It just occurred to me that I have another .308 sitting in the safe that I just might have to try some boolits in. It's a Remington 788 that I bought when I was in high school, and I loaned it to my father-in-law almost 20 years ago. Just got it back in January when he passed away; it's been so long since it has been here that I forgot I had it! It has a 1-in-10 twist, so it should stabilize boolits pretty well at cast velocities. I know it shot really well with 150 grain J-word projectiles at 23-2400 fps, well below 1" at 100 yards. The only 30-caliber mold I have is a Lyman 311466, which is a 160 grain RNGC. I may have to look around for something more suitable.

The 311466 is as good a mould for the .308 as you can get.Use it first before you rush into another mould.
Mike.

[THerbert]

The 311466 is as good a mould for the .308 as you can get.Use it first before you rush into another mould.
Mike.

I may have to cast a few this weekend, and see how they measure for size with the alloy I'm currently using. I would think that a .311" boolit is pretty big for a .308" bore. It should probably be sized down to .309". Anyone disagree?

[oldblinddog]

I'm sizing .310" for all my rifles with good results.

[250kt]

Depends on the bullet nose profile. The XCB in my rifle at .310 has to be seated way deep as it hits the actual chamber wall. Not the lands. At .309 it can seat out a lot farther. The rcbs 200 can go max mag length 2.800 and chamber fine at .310. My savage 99 300Sav will take a .314 bullet just fine. So kinda depends on bullet and rifle really.

[358 Win]

My early 70's Remington 788 in .308 Win is my go to cast boolit rifle. I shoot the Lyman 31141 sized to .3093" which with my alloy and fully dressed weigh 178 grains. I've used Javelina Alox bullet lube for years. My particular .308 likes the 31141 and powders from Nitro 100 at 1100 fps, 2400 at 1600 fps, and IMR4064 at 1800 fps. My 788 is kind of a no muss no fuss cast boolit shooter. Have not tried every powder available but so far nothing has been innacurate or problematic. I use air cooled WW alloy with 2% tin added for castability. The batches I've checked for hardness average 15 BHN with absolutely no leading. I shoot that alloy in all four of my .32 Win Specials at speeds in excess of 2300 fps with super accuracy and no leading at that speed either. Ahh, what a wonderful hobby we all partake of.

358 Win

PS: I let my boolits "age" for at least a month before loading them and launching them.