question on unique powder in the 30-30

[lonewolf5347]

I pick up a pound of Unique powder for shooting cast out of the marlin 30-30
The cast boolets weight from 150 to 175 grain bhn of 12 my old powder load was with 2400 but it no were to be found.
I like to ask do I need to use a filler with let say 10 grains of Unique/

[gnoahhh]

I shoot that charge of Unique a lot in .30-30 and .303 Savage and I have never used a filler. Perhaps it would work to your advantage though. Only one way to find out...

[Wind]

Hey there Lonewolf -- That is a classic load... 10 grains of Unique under a 170 grain bullet. Don't use a filler! Here's how it plays...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E4abzmvio0

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind

[dlbarr]

Good video, Wind! Have to try that load myself.

See you're in my general neck of the woods...you must be in Okanogan County? I'm down south in Benton Co.

[Wasalmonslayer]

That is a neat set up.
I am going to try that load in my 94.
I am in Yakima county.

[Wind]

Well boys -- Thanks for the kind words. Yes indeed, Okanogan County. The Okanogan Shooting Sticks derived their name from the place of origin. Best regards. Wind

[lcclower]

See: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

There was another very long post on dacron filler, chronograph and group size comparisons of laods with and without filler. Bottom line, use a filler.

[MtGun44]

I have used it a bunch without filler, good results.

[Shuz]

7g of Unique behind a NOE 311165PB gives me 1153 fps from a Marlin 336 in .30-30 with great accuracy and lotsa fun!

[Larry Gibson]

I don't recommend a filler with that Unique load in the 30-30. I've shot gobs of Unique at 11 gr under the 311291 & 311041 for many years and will shoot many more of them.

Larry Gibson

[lobogunleather]

Started using Dacron fiber fill in cast bullet rifle loads about 30 years ago. My experiences have all been positive. Calibers have included .30-30, .308, .30-06, .30-40, .45-70, .45-90, and .45 Sharps Express. Bullets have been gas check and plain base. Velocities have been from 1000FPS to 2000FPS. Needless to say, a great variety of powders have been used in the different calibers. Targets have been paper, steel, small game, and critters up to the size of an elk or two (lots and lots of deer).

I have always used the loose Dacron rather than the batts. Pull off a bit, roll it into a little ball in my fingers, stuff it into the case neck, let the bullet push it down while seating. I weigh the first few to judge how much to pluck off, then weigh every tenth or so to stay consistent.

[dlbarr]

Well boys -- Thanks for the kind words. Yes indeed, Okanogan County. The Okanogan Shooting Sticks derived their name from the place of origin. Best regards. Wind

So, you make those sticks, Wind? I see they're listed at Purdy Gear but their address is in Georgia. Would like to get a set myself.

[Hardcast416taylor]

So, you make those sticks, Wind? I see they're listed at Purdy Gear but their address is in Georgia. Would like to get a set myself.

To make a padded nest for those sticks simply split the seams on a yellow monkey faced worked glove and slip the remaining gloves thumb and little finger that you cut the end off of in the sticks, the palm of the glove will make a nest for your rifles forend. For a more less slippery solution use a rough leather work glove. Of course these gloves that I used were new.Robert

[Wind]

Hey there dlbarr -- Yes, I make them. Karla does the leather and sends it here from Georgia. It's absolutely stunning. We put them on her website www.purdygear.com Her leather work is also breathtaking. You could prolly make it here one way for what the postage would cost to mail you a set. They mail from the shop here. You could try them out and whack a dinger (cast bullets only) as well!! Shoot me a PM with an e-mail address and I'll send you a brochure. Here are a few more pictures...

137093 137094 137095 137096

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind

[dlbarr]

PM sent. Thanks.

[44man]

I never got any fast powders to shoot with accuracy in the 30-30. 3031 seems best with 4895 just lagging. Same in the 45-70 rifle, 3031 is best. 4759 in the 45-70 revolver. I have not made 4759 shoot yet in the 30-30 either but it is sure better then Unique.137212 Can at 100 yards shot with my Remlin 30-30. Just three shots. My cast boolit is running 1903 fps, 187 gr from my home made mold. 3031 powder.
I did not see or hear any targets hit in the video.
Filler did not help with Unique.
You know they do make a .22 rimfire.

[Wind]

Hey there 44man -- Nice shooting on the can!! You might check out www.gmdr.com for some other load testing. Click the Oregon Trail banner in the header, then click your choice of caliber on the left. Here at the U-Pick Sagebrush Ranch, we have had very good results with Unique in a variety of calibers. It might be a matter of just turning up the sound a little catch the "ding". Our cameras can be severely (adversely) affected by wind blowing over the microphone. Here's an example...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AHRMdMSiD0

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind

[Wind]

And as far as hearing the "ding", pipe dingers can be somewhat fickle depending on where your bullet strikes one. Here's a tough shot and one of the best "dings" I've ever heard to boot!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vln5EP0JAmg

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind

[Wind]

And here is a little history on Unique powder from the archives of Laflin & Rand...

137236 137237

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind

[44man]

Hey there 44man -- Nice shooting on the can!! You might check out www.gmdr.com (http://www.gmdr.com) for some other load testing. Click the Oregon Trail banner in the header, then click your choice of caliber on the left. Here at the U-Pick Sagebrush Ranch, we have had very good results with Unique in a variety of calibers. It might be a matter of just turning up the sound a little catch the "ding". Our cameras can be severely (adversely) affected by wind blowing over the microphone. Here's an example...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AHRMdMSiD0

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind
It does help but I still never got what I want with Unique. I used a lot of it in many calibers. A good shooter can clang steel at 400 yards with a .38 revolver. Does not mean it is good. I see that with the water jugs. None were blown up and the boolit stopped too fast. Compare with a .475 revolver that blew 4 jugs, split the fifth and went through 17.

[44man]

Lost picture.137411
Unique loads do not have enough energy. I killed pigeons over 100 yards with a slingshot, never knew where the balls went with a miss. Sure made 200 yards or more. I was in Cleveland and still wonder. Kind of an industrial and road maintenance area with no houses so I was OK.
Unique loads are like my slingshot that I might have killed 1000 rabbits with. I never had less then 16 a day. Sneak out shopping bags of rabbits. Many Unique loads are rabbit loads.

[jmort]

@ 44man A 400 grain Unique powered .47-70 going 1200 fps, as in the video, will shoot through most any animal on the earth. I read all your posts, and you have been there, and done that, so I will defer to you on this.

[44man]

@ 44man A 400 grain Unique powered .47-70 going 1200 fps, as in the video, will shoot through most any animal on the earth. I read all your posts, and you have been there, and done that, so I will defer to you on this.
I do not dispute that but it is hitting the animal that I am concerned with. The 45-70 at 1100 with a soft boolit is different then a 30-30 boolit. But both must hit where aimed and I never got fast powders as accurate. You might clang steel at 400 with a 900 fps load in the 30-30 but would you hunt with it?

[Wind]

Well boys and girls -- "You might clang steel at 400 with a 900 fps load in the 30-30 but would you hunt with it?" If I were to answer 44man's question I gotta say yes! A 10 grain of Unique load from my rifle, with a 170 grain bullet is scooting along about 1550 FPS, not 900. If I can't hit accurately what I'm aiming at, I shouldn't be hunting. Whilst a lot of the videos we do are load testing and for fun, we do a bunch to record information and promote discussion like we have here.

Sooo... For the folks that don't like Unique, please don't use it and save yourselves some aggravation. We've found these loads to be accurate to 1,000 yards (shooting dingers - certainly not hunting) for the 32-20, 30-30, 38-55, and 45-70. There are those that say water jugs don't equate to shooting a critter. Here is kind of a combination. You can see the target spot which was moved between shots to not incorporate the same wound channel per shot. Caught the bullet after pass through in the jugs so we could see what the bullet looked like...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b_h7ViNeJQ

Here are the results of each of the bullets captured. Couldn't manage to catch the 30-30 bullet, but the 10 grain load knocked a 900 pound cow on it's butt when shot in the head.

137448 137449 137450

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind

[44man]

1550 is at the muzzle, not at range, My 30-30 is 1910 fps at 10' but not at 200. I still doubt your velocity but none the less, a .22 in the head will kill a cow.
I see nothing with shooting a dead, hanging cow, how about a live one at a longer range. My friend got well into the brain of a dead deer with a .177 pellet gun.
You do not grasp the penetration has nothing to do with what kills best. You need to put energy from boolit work where needed. Nothing to do with velocity, ME or penetration. It is damage to tissue where needed along with penetration. Just a hole does not work good.

[44man]

I have no revolver that would fail to penetrate a cow, might be over three. But the boolit must work in the first. You need at least two gallon jugs blown up without a boolit stopped for many more. The 30-30 with just a hole in a few jugs will not be shot at a deer from me. I don't care if the boolit goes 300 yards after if it fails in 12".

[Wind]

Hey again 44man -- Looks like we'll need to agree to disagree here!! I've never seen anything survive a hole through the heart. Best regards. Wind

[GooseGestapo]

My older brother and nephew shot hundreds of Lee 150gr fn w/o gc's over7.5gr Unique. Tumble or pan lubed unsized. One evening, he had sons scout troop casting, and loading ~500 .30/30rds. Next meeting, shot them!
He once gave some to a fellow airman (he was sec.police nco) who took some on leave for "something for rabbits". He forgot he'd loaded rifle with them. Though they shoot several inches low at 50yds, he connected with a doe at ~40yds. Boolit penetrated deer and deer dropped after 70yd dash.

I've preferred 10.0 gr. no fillers. At 100yds with a scope, you might see a difference from bench, but I've never tried these so. Usually at 50yds offhand for plinking. Extra time not worth it.
The only reason I load over RL15 or 3031 is to enhance expansion and trajectory. There is more to killing deer than just hitting one.
7.5 ok w/o GC, 10.0gr or higher use a GC. I'm using 7.5 of green dot in a near pristine Win.M94 XTR I picked up last week. I raise the rear sight 1notch for cast boolits. Kind of a "load"indicator for what's in chamber. J-bullets use lowest notch.

[44man]

I should explain more about my boolit for the 30-30 and it is too hard for deer. It would zip through at about any speed. That is what worries me most so I will not hunt with my alloy. Being such a small diameter, it needs expansion. I fully believe you need enough energy to blow 2 jugs and still have penetration.
Goose said it right, more to killing then just hitting. Heart shot deer can go 100 yards or more without a drop of blood to track if just a tiny hole. Had deer make over 100 with a 4 blade broad head through the heart too many times.
This is proper boolit work with a heart shot. 139640
I do not believe in ME at all because it is no indication of what the boolit does.
My lack of accuracy with Unique in many rifle calibers is always in question but I can't make it work. Even 4759 has not worked as printed in my 30-30 rifle but worked super in a 10" TC tender. I used to do this with it at 100 yards. 139641I would never shoot deer with the alloy.
Penetration in and of itself is poor unless you shoot the skull or spine.
Velocity is the same, don't need much or too much either when the boolit works at the speed it is shot.
I have clanged steel at 500 meters with my 45-70 revolver every shot but had to aim at a tree branch about 26' over steel.
I get concerned about "all you need is a hole." It just does not work that way.