Ben's Red - discrete dots and chunks of red - subbed?

[huntinlever]

Hi guys,

I did look, I hope this wasn't covered elsewhere and if so, mods, please feel free to close the thread. I made up a batch of Ben's red and I'm having an issue getting a nice, homogenous liquid once melted. There is a "graininess" on stirring, and there are small bits and small little, discrete chunks of soft red that will not mix in.

At first, I thought it might be the Red n Tacky for some reason, but now I'm wondering if it's the "Dexron" I used. Now - I do want to say, I'm not given to subbing on anything, until I understand it well, so given the headaches Ben has had from people listing issues they've had, only to find out they'd altered the recipe somehow, well, I wasn't going to do that.

Except that on my visit to several places, no one had any Dexron II or III. Given how challenged I am in anything auto-related, I did end up using the store's recommendation - as it's Auto Zone, of course, it's Auto Zone's Dex/Merc. He said it's the same thing, and showed the back where it says it can be used in cars using Dexron II or III.

Is this the problem, does anyone know?

Additionally, the graininess - I'm actually using an old crockpot turned up high to melt everything. I presumed once the mass was melted, we were good to go. The grains look like they might be tiny bits of unmelted beeswax? Seems strange to me, but just tossing it out.

Anyway, could use some help. This stuff is more orange than the images I've seen of Ben's red, as well. So don't think I have anything close, at this point, though I followed the recipe exactly - with the exception of this tran fluid.

Thanks.

Edit: Oh, I should add, I did the %'s by weight, and not volume. Apparently I missed this, as I understand Ben does it by volume? ****. I also see Dex/Merc is all that's available at many places, and it doesn't matter. Still perplexed at the graininess, and these red patches that won't mix, and on cooling, stay as definite "freckles" large and small in the lube.

[runfiverun]

did you see the part about the strainer to get the little chunks and gunk out of the mix?

[Ben]

huntinlever


Did you use the whisk and stir , stir, and then stir about 20 minutes more with the whisk ? ? The heat has to be right on the edge of the liquid smoking, if it is smoking, things are getting too hot, back the heat off and keep stirring.

With all this that is said, I wouldn't be afraid to put your mix in my lube sizer and start lubing bullets right now.

Ben

[huntinlever]

Run and Five, sorry, was outside smelting. Runfive, I did see that but...lol....in trying to pass it originally through a t-shirt, it was less than stellar. I went back, re-melted and Ben, thank you - didn't get it that high but definitely stirred much longer and much more thoroughly, and this was a far better result. I then passed it through a sieve, and all is well! In the freezer now!

Thanks both and most especially Ben, thank you for your recipes. Watched your vid on filling the sizer as well - thanks again, very appreciative.

[Ben]

Paul,

All is well that ends well.
Good shooting,

Ben

[35 shooter]

huntinlever just for your peace of mind, the first time i made Ben's Red i used the same
dex/merc from auto zone as you. It worked just fine though i heated the red n tacky a bit much and got a pinkish orange color as you describe.
Strained it through an old t-shirt with a hair dryer blowing on it to keep it flowing and all was well with the world. I still use the dex/merc from time to time to make a batch and it seems to work as well as the original dexron for me.
Sounds like you should be good to go with a really great lube!

[Bigslug]

The whisk is your friend! I just toss all the stuff in the pot at once over low-ish heat and stir. A candy thermometer may be a worthwhile investment - it all seems to come together between 200 and 220F. I haven't had to strain, screen, or filter anything - just stir.

[runfiverun]

lucas red and tacky goes full melted at just over 350-f.
if you look in Bens thread [sticky] I think I posted a different way [V-2] to make the lube and have a full 100% matrix [make the other ingredients part of the grease and wax mix]
I use a blender to mix everything together [on low speed] quite often using just one beater to avoid air infiltration.

it makes the lube a slightly darker color and a thermometer is recommended to keep from scorching the added waxes at their correct melt temperatures.
adding another 5% wax works very well when made with the different [alternate] directions.

[huntinlever]

Thanks very much, you guys. 35, yep, that was about the same color so probably overheated the re n tacky. My t-shirt filtration was laughably disastrous - didn't hold on tight enough on one end and the whole thing spluged everywhere, quite the mess. Got it all back together and this time, with the sieve, seemed to work well enough. Can't wait to lube up my first couple batches of boolits from the last couple days!

Bigslug, thanks for your post as well - a candy thermo is a great idea, I have a couple from cheesemaking, and will work it a heck of a lot more than I did. Just wasn't sure there was something chemically wrong in what I was doing (35, thanks too on knowing the Dex/Merc is fine).

And finally runfive, thanks for your post. I'll check out the alternative prep you came up with.

Great help, all!

[w5pv]

Go back to Ben's web site and reread his instructions

[huntinlever]

w5pv, I did read several threads, including a couple by Ben, which included the recipe and how to proceed with it. Is there another place I should be looking?

[largom]

I have used FELIX lube for past several years with absolutely perfect results. However, after following this thread for sometime I decided to make some Ben's Red. I melted my beeswax with a double boiler arrangement, measured and poured into a clean large coffee can. Melted the Johnsons Paste Wax, measured and added to coffee can as well as Dex. 111 and STP. With coffee can setting in a pan of boiling water I kept everything melted while I stirred and added the Lucas Red and Tacky. My thermometer registered 210 Deg.
I had welded a small paddle to a 1/4 in. rod for stirring my FELIX lube so I used this in my cordless drill to stir the Ben's Red. After several minutes of heating and stirring everything blended together nicely with a bright red color. Poured into my tube moulds and placed in fridge. to cool. Next step is to clean out one of my lub/sizers and give Ben's Red a work out.

Larry

[huntinlever]

Beautiful, sounds perfect, largom. I made a batch before fully reading some of the threads (e.g., did ingredients by weight, my usual as I'm a chef, not volume; did not melt waxes separately, etc.), but I think I'll give this batch a try anyway - lots of strips yielded, just great to know you can do it, had no idea.

One question - is FELIX something of a BAC clone?

[gwpercle]

When using crockpot, a few hours on low, mixing up every 15 to 30 mins. , then up it to high and start the serious whisking. After an hour or so , turn it off, let it cool and repeat the next day, and if necessary the next. The repeated heat/cool cycle seems to help but try to avoid high heat for an extended time so it doesn't start getting brownish/ orange...too high. Still have particles then use a wire strainer...I tried T-shirt and it was too fine a mesh. Sometimes the beeswax has some trash in it. Trashy bees. It will be just fine.
Gary

[JWFilips]

Don't need to do any sieving only a whole lot of whisking at "low blending" temps to formulate Ben's Red
Anything else is not Ben's Red! Ask the man himself!

[Ben]

Amen Jim ! !

[huntinlever]

Whisk it is. Dumb question because you weren't here to see it - but as I did sieve it, is it usable, or would you recommend I start over?

[35 shooter]

huntinlever, look back at post 3. Then next time you make it try low heat and stir stir stir. Then there should be no need to strain as there won't be any lumps. I strained my first batch and it worked just fine. Now i just keep stirring untill it all melds together and don't have to strain.
Personally i think what you've made will work fine...it's just strained. Next time just keep stirring till there are no lumps or globs.

[Bigslug]

Whisk it is. Dumb question because you weren't here to see it - but as I did sieve it, is it usable, or would you recommend I start over?

The bad thing - potentially - about skimming out lumps is that you are skimming out and reducing your overall quantity of Lucas R&T.

The good thing - in my guesstimated opinion - is that it would functionally (albeit very slightly) increase the proportion of beeswax, stiffening the lube. I've come to prefer my Ben's Red with 5% more beeswax than the recipe calls for as it reduces the soft gooeyness that some folks really like. You'll have a usable lube, I'm sure.

[largom]

Beautiful, sounds perfect, largom. I made a batch before fully reading some of the threads (e.g., did ingredients by weight, my usual as I'm a chef, not volume; did not melt waxes separately, etc.), but I think I'll give this batch a try anyway - lots of strips yielded, just great to know you can do it, had no idea.

One question - is FELIX something of a BAC clone?


FELIX is another homemade lube developed by a past member here. A search for Felix lube will give you the results. FELIX lube is a great lube but BENS RED is a lot easier to make with mostly local ingredients.

Larry

[Ben]

7 key words in making Ben's Red :

SLOW
LOW HEAT
STIR, STIR, STIR , STIR

[huntinlever]

huntinlever, look back at post 3. Then next time you make it try low heat and stir stir stir. Then there should be no need to strain as there won't be any lumps. I strained my first batch and it worked just fine. Now i just keep stirring untill it all melds together and don't have to strain.
Personally i think what you've made will work fine...it's just strained. Next time just keep stirring till there are no lumps or globs.


Thanks 35 (and thanks Ben for your additional comment in this way, as well). I've got a good amount now but the perfectionist in me wants to get more stuff and make her purdy and red!

[huntinlever]

The bad thing - potentially - about skimming out lumps is that you are skimming out and reducing your overall quantity of Lucas R&T.

The good thing - in my guesstimated opinion - is that it would functionally (albeit very slightly) increase the proportion of beeswax, stiffening the lube. I've come to prefer my Ben's Red with 5% more beeswax than the recipe calls for as it reduces the soft gooeyness that some folks really like. You'll have a usable lube, I'm sure.

Thanks Bigslug. So that confirms these bits are the R&T, then, was wondering that. I plan to hunt cold, and know of MML from Runfiverun and others...but truthfully, I'm very much NOT a tinkerer and have one aim, to hunt with my boy and bring home meat (and memories); so one bullet, one load, and hopefully, one lube (I don't relish the idea of changing out the sizer, either, to be honest). So this idea of messing with portions to stiffen or make more viscous the lube is interesting, to me, will be fun to play with.

Thanks Ben, again, for what you do.

[huntinlever]

FELIX is another homemade lube developed by a past member here. A search for Felix lube will give you the results. FELIX lube is a great lube but BENS RED is a lot easier to make with mostly local ingredients.

Larry

Thanks, Largom. I'd seen his lube but without knowing more about BAC, didn't know how they compared. A friend of mine uses one lube, and that's BAC. On the other hand, I see Ben's red stuff at the top of many a list, so really looking forward to this.

[JWFilips]

Just a Note on the "Original Ben's Red " ( As Ben taught us to make it ) It was measured in volume ( on the fly in Ben's "Hand Gradated" mixing pot) Everything was to be mixed & blended under LOW heat. It is a "mix" / "blend" of ingredients...... not a "Compound" Many folks over-think it and try to melt things at different temps & Blend and just get carried away... Now Each to his own:: but I like to make it the way Ben taught us to, the original recipe!
Now the ingredients are super so I'm sure anyone putzing around one way or another; doing fancy measurement, and mixing & compounding things in their way ...well it could work but just don't ask questions about what went wrong if it is not the original recipe;-)

BTW if you want it to be pretty RED Get the yellowest (Pure) Bee's Wax you can find. Most of my wax is more amber but I have made batches of it last year with a very clean pure Bee's wax that was very yellow....Best "Red" I have seen. Also keep in mind the lower the heat in the mixing the redder it will be If you mix at a higher heat it will be a dull color

[huntinlever]

Thanks JW. I got my beeswax from Randyrat and man, it is absolutely beautiful. Seems I can't get better than the man himself:


SLOW
LOW HEAT
STIR, STIR, STIR , STIR

A salute, yes sir, and away I go!

OK, lame question and reaching, probably - but Ben or anyone, what sizer is Ben using in his youtube video showing him pouring the liquid lube into the reservoir? I may end up pan-lubing or even hand-lubing (reading Veral's book now, guess which chapter?), but pretty sure I'm going to want a dedicated luber ere too long....so as a couple of recent threads show, looking for info. Figure if it works for Ben in those vids, it's good enough for this humble noob!

[huntinlever]

Well, practice makes, well...you know.

This time, in a water bath, melted both waxes separately, liquified (as much as possible) the Red N Tacky, did everything by volume and combined in my crock pot. Within a matter of just a few minutes, a beautiful, completely homogenous mass, perfect color, consistency, not a speck in site. Still strained it, in the event there were any impurities carried over from the beeswax, but I believe that was likely unnecessary. Ben, et al - thanks again!

[largom]

One more bump:

SLOW
LOW HEAT
STIR, STIR, STIR , STIR

It works.


The double boiler- water bath method takes care of the LOW heat. the stir-stir-stir part is the most tiresome. I can't emphasize how easy this part became using my cordless variable speed drill. I used a piece of 1/4 in. rod with a small paddle welded to one end. Works like a paint stir. All of the lumps of Lucas Red disappeared in a minute or two running my drill at a low speed.

Larry

[huntinlever]

Guys, it might be that I'm lucky, but I have to say - truly, I didn't have to stir long at all. Honestly it was a minute or two....I checked the mix for consistency and it was perfectly blended, no "grains" at all. I stirred for a few more minutes nonetheless, much like straining at the end as a cautionary measure, but for me, the key was to melt the beeswax and paste wax separately, and warm the Red n Tacky up separately as well, all in a water bath. Once that was done, everything was poured in together by volume and almost, really, just mixed in together. And it was finished. From all I can tell, it is spot on. I can't know, of course, without Ben or one of you checking it out, but that's my best guess.