Sizing/lubing questions

[tddeangelo]

I've been digging around on here, and maybe I'm just not seeing the forest for the trees, but I'm still a little unsure how to proceed on sizing/lubing bullets.

I'm most of the way through smelting a batch of COWW, which has been going fairly well for my first run at it. 44lbs of ingots so far, and I have about 1/3 of the bucket to go. I've been going slow to make sure I'm being safe, picking through the weights and scooping off clips/non-melted weights that slip through right as soon as the "oatmeal" starts to get thin.

I have a 405FN Lee mold for 458's for my 45-70, so that's where I figured I'd start. Eventually I'd like to cast for my 30-cal rifles (Krag, 30 Carbine, and a few others), as well as my 41 Mag, 45ACP, and maybe 9mm (maybe....).

Anyway, given that I want to start casting for various calibers, what is the best way to approach this? I had initially though about getting a reloading press die setup for this job, although it seems like that's kind of a "low volume" approach? I hate to buy something "easy" now only to rebuy it later when I realize it wasn't the right tool for the job in the long run.

Along the same lines- installing gas checks.....seems like that's done while sizing?

Lube- this one makes my head spin. Seems like SO many ways/options/etc. Where to start?

[Yodogsandman]

Start cheap! You can finger lube for close to nothing with no gas check up to say 1400 FPS+/-.

Lee makes push-thru sizing die sets for about $25 for each size. You use your reloading press to size the boolits. You can always upgrade as you get into it more and re-sell the Lee's if you choose. Many guys here stick with this way, though.

Here's another option if you can wait for the idea to become reality...
http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php?topic=647.0

Good luck on shooting those first boolits!

[tddeangelo]

That's a great idea from NOE.

I may just get a Lee sizer for now just to keep rolling along here.

How does one install gas checks, though? For 45-70 bullets, I'm guessing it'd be prudent to put them on.

[orbitalair]

Put gaschecks on when sizing. I use lee pushthru dies for all my cast bullets.
30cal I use hornady gaschecks until I can get a punch.

For lube I hand toss with 40/40/10 search for it here, you 'll find the recipe.
Then I size/gascheck. Then I load em up.

[tddeangelo]

Seems like there's a lot of divergence of opinion on tumble lubing vs lubrisize/kake-cutter methods of lubing?

I have a spare single stage press that could easily be a dedicated bullet sizer station for me. It's even a C-frame press, so it's open in the front (unlike my Rockchucker), so bullet placement would be easier on that one, too.

I keep going back and forth. Everytime I watch a vid of the Lubrisizer from RCBS on FortuneCookie45LC's youtube channel, I just know I'll wind up with one eventually, lol.

[pworley1]

The reason that companies sell so many different kinds of equipment is because there are so many different ways to get the job done. I have used everything from the Lee hammer sizers to the heated press sizers and there is no wrong way to do it. You can spend as little or as much as you want to, just start and after about 40 or 50 years you will figure out a favorite way to lube and size. The most important thing is enjoy doing it.

[tddeangelo]

That's what I'm after...if tumble lube can do the job, then the press sizers don't look too bad. The stuff where the bullets...excuse me....boolits.... are put nose up in a pan with melted lube and then cut out-- wow does that look like a pain in the patootey. Sort of along the lines of case prep. Man, I hate that with a passion. I got a Hornady case prep center for just that reason!

So....I think I'll have a lubrisizer rig in the future, but may have to make my peace with the lower cost solutions in the interim.

I'm at 64lbs of ingots from my bucket of wheel weights so far, and I've not melted any of the SOWW's yet. There weren't a lot of those, though. I bet less than 15lbs of them, if that. I'll probably get just shy of 80lbs of ingots from the COWW's when all is said and done. Then I have 270-ish pounds of soft lead from ballast weights that I got off craigslist that I have to hack apart (it's in 45lb bars with chains embedded...they were machine shop ballasts) and smelt to ingots. Somewhere in there, however, the COWW lead will start turning into 405FN's from my Lee 2-cavity that I got with my 45-70 when I bought it.

[GhostHawk]

My Advice, start simple. Take it up by stages as you learn.

Start with a sizer kit for the caliber you shoot the most.
It will come with a 4oz bottle of Alox.

I would recommend you read at least some of the "Ben's Liquid Lube" thread.

There are alternative's to lube sizers, and cake cutting. Several of us start with a container of melted lube and "dip" the bases of the bullets into that, then set them aside to cool. I have often run bullets through the sizer twice, first time bare to crimp on the gas check, second time after the lube has cooled to remove excess lube. Leaves the bands clean, but the grooves full.

And Ben's Liquid Lube is IMO the easiest of them all, easy to make, easy to use, easy to load, easy to shoot and easy to clean gun after.

Welcome, and enjoy the journey!

[Yodogsandman]

I have the RCBS LAM II and it's a good investment. That's it, you have to look at the equipment as a lifetime investment in your happiness. I have to warn you though, sizing dies and top punches are getting expensive.

[MT Chambers]

The fastest, most precise method is the Star sizer, may as well start off right and not buy dies or other equip. that will not be needed when you get a Star. Using your finger or shake and bake method, or using your wife's cookie sheets really isn't gonna do it compared to the STAR.

[Wayne Smith]

If you don't like case sizing you are looking at either a Lyman/RCBS or Star. The difference is in cost and ease of operation. The Star is more expensive, if it and it's maintenance (dies) are within your budget, go for it. Otherwise look at the RCBS LAMII and the SAECO. The H&I dies are common to the RCCBS and Lyman platform and are generally available. SAECO dies are propretiary and less available.

The current RCBS is marginally better than the Lyman and their guarantee is better. Of the two I'd recommend the RCBS.

The big difference between the Star and others is that the Star is a straight through lube sizer. The others use an in and out operation.

[tddeangelo]

Good info...thank you!

Did a quick Amazon search to get a general idea on cost, looks like the Star runs around 2 bills (just under)?

Looks like a heck of a set up, though.

ETA: Never mind on the price....lol...I was looking at Lymans somehow (just did the search and didn't read the listings close enough).

[largom]

I have 2 Lyman 450's, 1 Lyman 4500 and 1 RCBS Lam.2 They have all worked great for many years and the dies and top punches inter-change. I bought all of these sizers used and invested less than the price of a Star.

Larry

[mold maker]

I saw a great idea on a video and tried it. Mount a LEE classic cast upside down. Install LEE sizing die in the press, in the normal position, and place a catch container beneath it. No more balancing the boolits on a post, just stand the nose in the die. Pull the handle and add another boolit. A plastic tube can even direct the sized boolit without damage to a bucket on the floor, like a primer catcher.
Even better get the die and sleeves from NOE. That gets total cost of sizing way down.
Wish I had seen that 50 years ago, before I bought 2 Lyman, and an RCBS.
The knowledge available on this site should be in a best seller book form, but it would be the size of Obama's health care proposal, and nobody has finished reading it yet.

[tddeangelo]

I did some reading...specifically one of the stickies on tumble lubing. It doesn't look like rocket surgery, but it does look like a PITA.

I have some expense reimbursement coming back from work, so we'll see.....I'm sort of leaning toward an RCBS or Lyman unit, but we'll see.

[Yodogsandman]

Watch the "Swap and Sell"section here on the forum. Lots of good buys on lube equipment!

[Wayne Smith]

I saw a great idea on a video and tried it. Mount a LEE classic cast upside down. Install LEE sizing die in the press, in the normal position, and place a catch container beneath it. No more balancing the boolits on a post, just stand the nose in the die. Pull the handle and add another boolit. A plastic tube can even direct the sized boolit without damage to a bucket on the floor, like a primer catcher.
Even better get the die and sleeves from NOE. That gets total cost of sizing way down.
Wish I had seen that 50 years ago, before I bought 2 Lyman, and an RCBS.
The knowledge available on this site should be in a best seller book form, but it would be the size of Obama's health care proposal, and nobody has finished reading it yet.

Problem with this is that you still have to lube. The Lee design does not lube, it sizes only.

[tddeangelo]

Scored a Lachmiller Lube A Matic right here in Swappin' and Sellin'. Thanks guys!

[Yodogsandman]

Great snag!

[tddeangelo]

Thanks!

Question- the seller says there is no die nut wrench. Are those "findable"? It looks like they are a hex nut config....so....could a large adjustable suffice in a pinch?

Guess I should maybe start searching for one of the lube heating plates, as well as dies/top punches. First up for casting boolits will be 405FN's from a Lee mold (have to dig out the mold to get the specific number).

It seems a lot of guys are making their own lube, and I'm sure I'll get there one day, but for now, I'd like to just buy "off the shelf" lube for starters. Same for gas checks. Any suggestions for good stuff at a good price?

[Yodogsandman]

That's all I've ever used, a big adjustable wrench.

I saw where someone used a thick aluminum plate fitted to the lubrisizer bottom with it hanging out in the rear and fitted the hang over portion with an old iron (with heat control). Better than the Lyman heater that you have to plug in and out to adjust the temperature.

If you do get the Lyman heater, there's also someone here using a rheostat from Harbor Freight to adjust the heat for about $20.

Hard to beat the lubes from the guys here, RandyRats Tac X or White Label Lubes 2500+, Carnuba Red or 50/50. For the home made stuff, so far, Ben's Red works good and is simple to make. Or Felix's World Famous Lube.

[mold maker]

A light dimmer with proper amp rating works great, and its available everywhere cheap.
On the question of the wrench, check out what "the professor" is making. No problems with cross threaded nut, and not expensive.

[Frank V]

I just saw this thread. I'm for the first time trying a Lee sizing die. The instructions say to lube the bullet first not to run it through the die dry as it'll lead the die. Well I'm not going to find out the hard way so TLubed them, sized, then TL again. Ok there has to be a faster way. Soooo I tried lubing the bullets just as I would with sizing cases bingo works fine, tried plain old vasilene works fine. So now I size similar to how I'd size cases & then TL.
I've been using the RCBS & an Ooooold Lyman lubrisizer for years this year is the first try with the Lee sizing die & I kind of like it.... I'm just getting used to the TL method I'll use it awhile & see how I like it then.

[gloob]

I don't get why you need to dedicate a separate press for sizing bullets. Screw the sizing die into your rock chucker.

Lee sizers are great at installing checks nice and true, IME.

[Frank V]

gloob, it's a press I have had but have not been using so I use it for pulling bullets, & now sizing bullets with the new to me Lee sizing kit. Till now all of my bullet sizing has been done on a RCBS & Lyman lubrisizer except for some pan lubing for the .45-70.
I'm new to the tumble lube method. Glad to hear about the gas checks, Lee instructions do say it'll seat gas checks.