Reloading Scale Check Weights

[gsdelong]

Does anyone have the experience to know if you use gram based check weights if you can then be assured when you switch an electronic scale to grains that it is still accurate?

Thank You

Greg

[bangerjim]

Weight is weight. No matter if you read it in grains, grams, ounces, dtw, pounds, or any other unit of measure.

The inaccuracies you will run into are the conversion YOU have to calculate to go from grams to grains.

You electronic scale should do that automatically. But you will be dealing with decimal fractions of grains/grams. You just have to hope the maker of the electronic scale did the correct math conversions internally!

banger-j

[EDG]

It is what is called SMOP - a small matter of programming.
My scales are calibrated using gram standards but they will display in both grams and grains.

The gram standards that I use were provided by the manufacturers RCBS and Dillon to calibrate the scales which I use in the grain mode.

[comdiver]

One gram = 15.4323584 grains. So if you have a 10 gram test weight x by 15.43233584 and it should weigh 154.323584 grains.

[fishhawk]

found this. http://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-417038.html

[bangerjim]

Like I said.....................lots of decimal fractions to deal with!

banger-j

[too many things]

Never trust an electronic scale it will BITE you one day and you may not like the result

[country gent]

A gram check wieght will check accuracy converted mathmatically to grains will give a good idea most wieghts with scales are 50 grams You want to check in the range where it is going to be operating also. Think of a set of check wieghts the same as gage blocks a known standard to verify accuracy

[rocice]

You calibrate your scale to the manufactures instructions using whatever weights provided. Mine provides a 100 gram weight for calibration. I then switch over to grains and check the scale with http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/scales-measures/scale-weight-check-sets.php check weights.

[gsdelong]

I appreciate all the input. I need to learn to phrase my questions better. Bangor Jim correctly restated my question as being more about the reliability of the built in conversion factor.

Greg

[GhostHawk]

The electronic scales are inexpensive, and handy, but they can indeed bite you.

I was individually measuring 50 grain loads of IMR 4350 into 7.62x54r cases.
When I looked at the batch, the first half of the block were correct, the middle varied, some up some right.
At the end 2 cases were overflowing.

I dumped the whole works and went back to my RCBS balance scale.

I re calibrated the digital and it was throwing 5 grains long at the end.

[Case Stuffer]

I re calibrated the digital and it was throwing 5 grains long at the end.

I wonder if this was perhaps due to low battery voltage. l know that digital voltage meters give give extremely inaccurate voltage readings if the battery is low.

FWIW I use my beam scale to check my thrown power charge during setup and start of a run , I check /compare the readings of the beam scale on my digitiiae scale and as long as they match I use the digitial scale to spot check charged cases during a run.

[Dan Cash]

I appreciate all the input. I need to learn to phrase my questions better. Bangor Jim correctly restated my question as being more about the reliability of the built in conversion factor.

Greg

You can buy cheap and get cheap. You can buy quality and get quality which in scales equals reliable accuracy and repeatability. Cheap balance beams loose zero with temperature changes, none are accurate if not properly level (any electronic must be level too) and dust on the knives and bearings destroy accuracy. For my self, though I have some quality balance beam scales, my Myweigh electronic scales provide the accuracy I need.

[dragon813gt]

Buy one, cry once when it comes to electronic scales. The cheap ones are straight up garbage. They aren't repeatable. And most will show different weights depending on where the load is on the pan. I trust a RCBS Chargemaster and PACT DPPS just as much as I trust a beam scale.

The check weights for both of those scales are in grams. I can't see the conversion programing all of a sudden changing on you.

[flounderman]

use a loading block and check visually

[Silverboolit]

The problem using a beam scale and an electronic is like using two thermometers....you never know which is correct..

[bangerjim]

One of my "other" hobbies is collecting and restoring antique balance scales (scientific, apothecary, chemical, trade....nothing to do with reloading). Doing so, I have amassed a number of certified weight sets (a couple with NIST certs) that I use for checking balances.

I have checked a couple of inexpensive (NOT HF!!) grain/gram scales and they are darned accurate and very repeatable. Several weight sets are in grains and the scales are dead on.

The problems come in the human conversion charts from grams to grains most times. If you are worried about accuracy, buy a set of grain certified weights.

A modern technology electronic scale runs circles around old school beam balances in the loading room. I use one all the time, and it is not one of those multi-hundred dollar contraptions.

banger-j

[BAGTIC]

There is a limit to the effectiveness of ultra precise scales. It is the weight of the individual powder granules. Traditionally beam scales were expected to weigh within 1/10 grain and that is close enough as that much variance will not affect accuracy. There are simply too many other variables involved such as individual primer variance, case capacity, temperature.

It has been said that fishing lures are really designed to catch fishermen more so than fish. To a certain extent the same is true of shooting especially for the obsessive compulsive. Consistent technique can compensate a lot at less expense.

[gsdelong]

I ended up buying a set of Lyman check weights to put the matter to rest.

Greg

[alamogunr]

I got the Lyman check weights also. I only use them on the balance beam scales. The electronic scale I got on Ebay(cheap) is only used on non-critical applications. For example: weighing components for lube recipes.

[Wayne Smith]

I typically use Serria bullets. They are very accurate.

[alamogunr]

I typically use Serria bullets. They are very accurate.

I did that before I got the check weights. When I posted my method I was "straightened out" very quickly. I might have used another brand of bullet.

[EDG]

The conversion factor is a single mathematical function - a very simple equation. It either gets all the answers correct or it gets none correct. Like conversion from inches to mm Multiply inches times 25.4mm/per inch.


I appreciate all the input. I need to learn to phrase my questions better. Bangor Jim correctly restated my question as being more about the reliability of the built in conversion factor.

Greg

[EDG]

If your scale is 15 years old or older it could have the primitive early transducers and electronics.
I had an early scale that drifted all over the place. A friend of mine bought it and brought it to my house to test when he had trouble with it. It was so bad that he abandoned it and left it with me. Over the next few years I tested it several times with the same results. I finally called the manufacturer and the tech apologized but said that was about all I could expect with the current state of the cheap electronics. The tech told me to send it in and they would replace it but a new one would not likely be any better. I am talking about drifting up to 2 or 3 grains if I left it sitting on a shelf in a closet for an hour. If I actually used it, it might drift even more. I declined to waste money shipping the scale on the first offer, same thing again about 2 years later. Finally after I had the thing 8 years the manufacturer introduced a new scale (900 grains) and it appeared that the old scale (1200 grains) might be discontinued. I called again. They said ship it back. At first I was disappointed that the replacement scale was the cheaper 900 grain version with the small display. However it works flawlessly so I am happy with it since all it cost me was several phone calls and shipping to return it.


The electronic scales are inexpensive, and handy, but they can indeed bite you.

I was individually measuring 50 grain loads of IMR 4350 into 7.62x54r cases.
When I looked at the batch, the first half of the block were correct, the middle varied, some up some right.
At the end 2 cases were overflowing.

I dumped the whole works and went back to my RCBS balance scale.

I re calibrated the digital and it was throwing 5 grains long at the end.

[jcren]

I typically use Serria bullets. They are very accurate.

Ditto, my cheap gs scale is a pain to calibrate, so I check every time I load against a couple weights of Sierra. Never found one that was more than .2 off rated, close enough for spot checks.

[gray wolf]

I have my own method that has worked for me over many years.

The scale I use now is an RCBS 505, it's 15 years old now and was used when I bought it at a yard sale for $2.00 (two )

All I have done is replaced the agate bearings 2 times, free from RCBS

I set the scale up and levaled the bench top so the beam was horizontal with the bench top.
Then the scale was zeroed.

I got some thin roof flashing and easily cut out a wide variety of small sample weights, they were weighed and trimmed to the nearest grain ,
and marked with a sharpie pen. I ended up with about 10 sample weights.

I found a friendly Druggist ( Pharmacist ) in my area that still had an anilitical balance and had him weigh my samples.
Surprisingly they were less than a 1/10 off, some even closer. At this point I thought --- this scale can't hurt me.

So what I do and have done for years is this:
when I work up a load and find the most accurate of the samples ( lets say it's 9.4 grains of unique for my 44 mag)
I take a small piece of the roof flashing and make a sample that weighs 9.4 grains exactly on my scale.

When I want to load for that grain weight I zero my scale and then set it to 9.4 grains, I place my sample on the scale and check that it weighs 9.4 grains. I do it at least 3 times. The scale doesn't no powder from my check weight. So my scale is now set up for 9.4 grains of powder.

I do this for all my favorite loads and now have many little sample weights that cover my different loads and assist me in checking my scale.

My friend has a GEM-pro 250 Digital that is very accurate and I ocassionaly check my sample against his scale.
So far no change.

Expensive anilitical scales are nice to check a less quality scale with.
But I have found that with more decimal points you wind up chasing decimals more than you reload.

I don't knock anyone's method for getting from point A to point B
This is just what has worked for me.

Sam