The wheels fell off.

[Boz330]

I'm sure some of you guys have experienced this. I went to the match yesterday, beautiful warm day, the first of the year.
Couldn't hit the side of a barn if I had been inside with the doors closed. Went to Oak Ridge Mid and LR match 2 weeks ago and finished 6th in the Aggregate, beat out of a medal by an X. That is shooting way over my head. Monthly match before that I shot really well in lousy conditions. In fact was shooting good, for me, all winter.
I'm just shaking my head wondering what the hell happened???????????????

Bob

[Don McDowell]

Lot's of things get to our shooting as we progress in years... Best thing to do is just put the big boy pants on, go thru the ordeal in your mind, and look for the little screw-ups, and make a note not to do that again.... Other than that, an offering to the shooting gods might not be a bad idea.. If you figure out what pleases them let me know.:lol:

[waksupi]

I've struggled with the same thing over the years at various times. For me the most common thing was target panic, and I just did not have the strength to squeeze that 4 ounces out of the set trigger to get off a shot when the sights were lined up on the target. It has always gone away with time, but is frustrating while it is here.

[Lead pot]

Bob, You just missed better two weeks ago :):)
Just kidding :) I see this often my self and I just say I missed better :)

[Smoke4320]

there are some days that I am just not going to shoot well and I can tell that in the first target..
The 2 broken vertebrates sometimes flare their ugly head and no amount of Advil will help

That's when I switch over to shooting bottles and cans or pack it up and head to the workshop

[country gent]

Look at the conditions as to humidity, bar pressures and such also lube that works in one set of conditions may not in others. Another is that bad days occur along with health issues. Blood pressure and fatiuge can and do affect eye sight. Fatigue and stress affect stamina and endurence. Hot dry conditions cause issues with dehydration and fatuge. One of the things that make top shooters is learning to control work with these issues also. The big thing is to do your best for a given day. Dont compete against everyone compete against your self. If you shoot a high score for you youve won the day. Keep notes as to wind loads conditions include light and direction this will slowly create a data base of conditions and needed sight settings corections and chamges needed to be competitive.

[Boz330]

I pretty much figured the problem, EYES, they just need to be 40 years younger.
We shoot hanging silhouettes and if they are not hung high enough they sit right on top of the grass line or have grass as a background. The grass has been tan all winter but now it is green and after a few seconds the whole mess becomes a dark blur. Which part of the blur do you shoot at that point. It wasn't just me that was having problems but it sure can be frustrating to not live up to your own expectations. Upside was it was a great day to be outside and shooting and a couple beers afterward with friends numbed the experience.
I started shooting amber lenses in my regular glasses last year and it gave needed help with iron sights but I may have go back to the scope for the summer and silhouettes.

[opos]

I'm running an on line "recovery" program for just those kinds of days...send $25 in cash and your problems will be solved.

[Doc Highwall]

A lot of times it is just the level of concentration that the shooter has. You said you shot over your head two weeks ago and probably felt over confident at this match and did not concentrate like you should, been there and done that.

At a match your toughest competitor is yourself, the only shot that matters is the one that is in the gun firing now. Treat each shot as a match into it's self.

A lot of the match is won before the match even starts, your notes from both practice and matches should have been gone over in your head and reminder notes placed where you can see them while on the firing line such as in the top of your ammo box. While waiting for the match to start take note of where the prominent wind condition is coming from and shoot in that condition.

Write everything down and note that you think is relevant to your shooting and study them.

[Lead pot]

I understand aging eyes and they do get to be a problem. Mine are 75 years old and a heavy floater that is centered in my shooting eye and looking through the aperture on low light days the white spot on the irons are cut I halve. I see two white dots and when the sum is up and barrel heats up those two white spots are dancing all over the place, some times they look like two white spots dancing in two directions :)
OI like the violet lenses for black over green contrast at the berm. For me they make the black stand out better.

[Don McDowell]

Bob I hear you on the not being able to see the sillouettes. I can sort of see them pretty good thru the irons using the open crosshair insert, but those 22 bpcr sillouettes I don't think I could shoot with irons, tried it a couple of times, mounted the scope on my 22 and haven't looked back...

[Boz330]

I switched to a scope several years ago for silhouettes. When I started playing with the LR targets I could still see the round targets fairly well and the amber glasses really helped. I switched over to Old Eynsford in my 40-65 scoped gun that I use for silhouettes and haven't found the load yet so I thought that I would try the Sharps 45-70 and was doing pretty well with it the last few matches. I really like using irons but after awhile missing gets old.

Bob

Bob

[Don McDowell]

Heard from a friend that had been messing with OE in his 4065, he went with 58 grs of 3f with a money bullet of some sort, and is shooting some really nice tiny groups at 3 and 600 yds.

[country gent]

One guy at our local matches has a hard time seeing the hanging shillouettes but can make out the cross bar they hang from so he holds the bar with a sight setting to hit the shillouette. I have been shooting the MVA 6X scope for a year or a little more now due to eye sight and It does work well. I shoot my CPA 40-65 with 57 grns ond ensford 2 f and a 400 grn nasa bullet lubed with SPG with very nice groups out to the rams ( One range is 400 yds the other is 500 yds.) Load is starline cases, primer pockets uniformed and flash holes deburred. Case mouths deburred with a VLD angle deburring tool. Trimmed to uniform length. 57 grns 2 F old ensford a .060 napa rubber fiber card wad compressed to .465 from case mouth Bullet is Old West 40 cal Nasa bullet lubed with SPG hand seated and lightly crimped.

[Boz330]

Everyone seems to be having pretty good luck with 58gr but so far 60-61 has given me the most promise but that isn't final by any stretch of the imagination. I lent out my Brooks mold so this has been with a Lyman Snover. The few Brooks boolits I shot weren't showing any signs of sucess.
I'm shooting WW brass and the Brooks boolit only goes in the case .250 Which would require several wads with that light of charge. I'm not against that and my old load of Swiss used 2 .060 and a .125 cork wad with excellent results. Big problem is making the time to get all the loading and testing done. I need to be retired but the money supply won't allow that right now.
While cleaning up everything last night I discovered another contributing factor. I just put a set of Distant Thunder front and rear sights on this rifle. I put the largest aperture in the front and thought that it was a .130 which is what I had been using but it was a .120. I thought that things looked a little funny and was right.

Bob

[MT Chambers]

Sometimes just the color of the targets or the angle of the sun leaves one guessing about sight picture, another day everything will be clear and you will be able to focus.

[Sharpsman]

Maybe a vist here would help:

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/236588455_Using_Interactive_Neuro-Educational_Technology_to_Increase_the_Pace_and_Ef ficiency_of_Rifle_Marksmanship_Training

[Boz330]

The cost for the PHD so I could understand what they are saying would be prohibitive. Probably better spent on ammo.:veryconfu

Bob

[Chill Wills]

Hello Bob,
:hijack:
Sorry, this is a little off topic but were you in Oak Ridge for the ML match or are they holding some RBCR matches now also? Now that I reread the post and see the dates, I guess you were referring to the ML match. (?) I often thought Oak Ridge would/should hold some BPCR target matches too. It is a great place with great people. I have enjoyed the matches I have shot there.

[Boz330]

Mike, you are correct it was the Oak Ridge ML match. I wish they did allow BPCR and it would be a great place for it. My buddy that passed had been trying to get me to go for years. This was my first outing with the ML since having my knees replaced. That up and down is a little tough on them. Several other friends that all shoot the LRML hassle me about shooting the ML instead of the cartridge but I really like cartridge better. Of course the ballistics are pretty much the same just less work. I've been trying to convince some of them to set up a BPCR the same as the ML for practice. more trigger time for one hell of a bunch less work.
I had been shooting really well all winter and to be honest my performance at Oak Ridge was a pleasant surprise and while I had been doing well, that was over my head. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, when you are doing well and think you have this stuff figured out, reality has raise it's ugly head.:bigsmyl2:

Bob

[BrentD]

Bob, you did well at OR. It was a great time but while you were doing well, lots of shooters were not. So, pat yourself on the back - you did well when others that were supposed to do well did not. Some of us didn't even get off 10 shots for score.

Congratulations and bear down again! Next time you may place even higher.

Why not Lodi in about 2.5 weeks? It is a cartridge match too, if you prefer. I can guarantee you will enjoy it.

Lead Pot and I will be there and maybe Chill Wills will find that his rifle can shoot some direction other than north after all. It's a heck of a lot gentler course than Oak Ridge is so far as seeing the targets.

Brent

[Chill Wills]

Lead Pot and I will be there and maybe Chill Wills will find that his rifle can shoot some direction other than north after all. It's a heck of a lot gentler course than Oak Ridge is so far as seeing the targets.

Brent

Brent, please leave me out of this. Thank you.

[BrentD]

That actually was a sincere and friendly invitation. I wish you would come. I know you have been to OR and they shoot straight into the rising sun and it makes for a tough target but everyone has the same situation and everyone enjoys it, as you did. I bet you would enjoy shooting westward at Lodi just as much, and that's the point, come on out. I'll buy your beer, a fish fry, whatever it takes to get you to come and give it a whirl.

[Boz330]

Brent, where in IA is Lodi? Sounds like a pretty long run from KY. That also sounds like the same weekend of the NMLRA Mid Range at Camp Atterbury if it comes off. Apparently there are some scheduling issues at Camp Atterbury this year, Army priority. Not sure why we aren't in a war anymore or so the Prez says.

Might be something to look at next year though.

Bob

[BrentD]

Bob, Lodi is really easy to get to from almost anywhere. It is about 20-30 miles north of Madison Wisconsin. It is a really nice range, though it points west, and has a great target/pit set up. This is an NRA regional BPTR Creedmoor (800, 900, 1000) - Each distance twice over 2 days. The area is pretty nice too. Most of us hit one of the local restaurants on a nearby lake for the Friday night fish fry and a steak on Saturday. I can guarantee you a supply of best quality beers, and I won't be the only beer snob there by any means.

It might be a little longer drive than you are used to but heck I drove from Iowa to OR, so KY to Lodi shouldn't be too bad. Should be almost all interstate for you (the range is less than 10 miles off of I-94). Where in KY are you at?

If you want to come, send me an email and I'll get the registration materials to you and other details. Usually around 30 or a few more, shooters.

The match is held on Mother's Day weekend.

Sorry to hear about Atterbury's scheduling. I hope it isn't the fiasco that was Camp Butner last weekend for the LRML guys. Man, that was a wreck and a half with folks coming from Idaho and Iowa.

Brent

[Lead pot]

Alma Mich. and Milan IL. are on this weekend also.

Kurt

[BrentD]

Yeah, that is a bummer, but it is the one weekend that Lodi can be counted on for range time. The 1000 yds range is hard to reserve and Mothers Day it is (and has been for a decade or more) for the BPTR guys. Lodi does get people from lots of places including MI but they try their best to avoid overlapping dates. There just aren't enough weekends in life however. Boy is that ever a problem...

[Don McDowell]

Kurt keep me posted on the fall date for Milan.

[Lead pot]

Wilco

You still have time to make it this weekend Don. :)

Kurt

[Don McDowell]

Nope, branding Saturday if it doesn't rain. Still having to feed, and with the wild temperature swings and the dust problems from the lack of rain,and then the 4 days of freezing drizzle and rain, we are doctoring a few calves for pneumonia.. Probably won't get anywhere for the next few weeks except to run up to Kenny's and do some load testing on his creedmoor targets some afternoon.

[Boz330]

Bob, Lodi is really easy to get to from almost anywhere. It is about 20-30 miles north of Madison Wisconsin. It is a really nice range, though it points west, and has a great target/pit set up. This is an NRA regional BPTR Creedmoor (800, 900, 1000) - Each distance twice over 2 days. The area is pretty nice too. Most of us hit one of the local restaurants on a nearby lake for the Friday night fish fry and a steak on Saturday. I can guarantee you a supply of best quality beers, and I won't be the only beer snob there by any means.

It might be a little longer drive than you are used to but heck I drove from Iowa to OR, so KY to Lodi shouldn't be too bad. Should be almost all interstate for you (the range is less than 10 miles off of I-94). Where in KY are you at?

If you want to come, send me an email and I'll get the registration materials to you and other details. Usually around 30 or a few more, shooters.

The match is held on Mother's Day weekend.

Sorry to hear about Atterbury's scheduling. I hope it isn't the fiasco that was Camp Butner last weekend for the LRML guys. Man, that was a wreck and a half with folks coming from Idaho and Iowa.

Brent

Found it on the map, I thought it was in IA for some reason. I'll keep it mind for next year. I've committed to the Atterbury match all ready and I haven't heard that it has been cancelled yet.
Kenn Heismann told me about Butner, sounds like a whole bunch of wires got crossed. Excrement does happen though, and hopefully everyone learned. I was on the BOD of a pistol club for 25 years and most of the shooters didn't appreciate the hassle that the match directors and RO's went through. Many were quick to criticize but no where to be found for set up or tear down.
BTW which one is you in this photo, it would be nice to put a face to a name. I probably met you but there were so many new faces for me that it was tough to keep them all straight.

Bob

[BrentD]

Yes, it is hard work putting on a match. No doubt about that.

I'm the guy in the dark hat standing to the right of Fleener and behind Decker.

How about you?

[Boz330]

I'm the 2nd guy to your left on the other side of Fleener with the beard next to Dave Munch.

Bob

[hydraulic]

I'm 77 and have watched my scores slowly decrease over the last two years. At our lever rifle match I used to shoot in the mid twenties, usually,-even won it one time with a thirty. A couple years ago I was diagnosed with afib, don't know it that had anything to do with it. Now anything in the teens I consider good, and at the last match I shot AN EIGHT.

[BrentD]

hydraulic - you are still flinging lead and that's what counts. I'll be damn proud to be shooting anything when I'm 77. I'll be happy to be breathing.

Bob, let me know if you decide to try the Lodi gig and I'll be glad to give you some help with what you will need to know before you go.
But good luck at Atterbury otherwise! May the Hot Streak be with you!
Brent

[Boz330]

Thanks, biggest problem with Atterbury is that there is no backstop, just an impact area. If you don't have someone with good ears that can tell which side of the target a miss is on, it can be a real long day.

Bob

[Lead pot]

Hey Hydraulic if you would pick up a rifle instead of that sling shot you carry in your back pocket you might hit more! :) It's getting tough for me too.
We will have to get together again for cup of coffee when I pass close by.
Give me regards to Ms. Karol.

Kurt

[BrentD]

Bob, I have heard that about Atterbury and I can't imagine shooting there like that. Even shots on paper would be tough to work quickly. It seems very odd to me that they do not have a backstop.

I get spoiled at Lodi, which has the easiest berm to work of any place I have been. It is relatively close to the target, parallel to the target line and almost pure sand. Spotting shots from the pit or from the firing line is easier there than anywhere else that I have been.

Brent

[Lead pot]

Brent.

Lodi is a great place. Good pit, firing line and well run match and a fine bunch to shoot along side with.
I just have one issue and that is the range is not open for practice on Friday the day before the match. If it was I think it would get a few more in to shoot the match.

[BrentD]

I wish it were too. I think it might have to do with Mark and Cliff being working stiffs on Fridays, and there may be rules about nonrange members shooting w/o supervision by a member. But I don't know that for a fact. I'd be happy to ask them.

Brent

[Boz330]

Bob, I have heard that about Atterbury and I can't imagine shooting there like that. Even shots on paper would be tough to work quickly. It seems very odd to me that they do not have a backstop.

I get spoiled at Lodi, which has the easiest berm to work of any place I have been. It is relatively close to the target, parallel to the target line and almost pure sand. Spotting shots from the pit or from the firing line is easier there than anywhere else that I have been.

Brent

The reason is that the impact area is a wet lands area. Can't inconvenience a duck getting blown up. Pete was trying to get a world shoot there but it would need a backstop. IIRC he had them about talked into building one till the wet lands thing came up.

Bob

[BrentD]

It does sound like a poorly planned range to not have a backstop. Every long range I have shot used a natural land formation as a backstop and building something big enough would really seem difficult in the extreme.

In any event, know that you are welcome at Lodi if you decide to go.

Brent

[country gent]

Camp Perry has a mound in front of target to protect the pits but now actual dirt back stop Lake erie ( sections 3,5, and 7) are the impact area. One trick when off paper is to aim at corners of target ( this gives a 6ft correction each corner) then to number board. It is harder than a range with backstop.On the plus side bullet holes show much better also. The NRA Nationals are held there every uear for hand gun rifle ( mid range and long range) small bore along with other matches thru out the summers.

[Boz330]

The impact area is also for Artillery and the Warthogs practice blowing away the leftover trailers from Katrina. The sound of that Gatling Gun is impressive to say the least. The cost of one burst from that gun would probably supply every BPCR shooter in the country with powder and lead for a season.

Bob

[BrentD]

I'd hate to see an A10 coming for me. I used to live in Tucson and I could tell you almost every fighter and attack plane just from the sound of them taking off or landing. I miss those days.

[Sharpsman]

This can be summed up pretty well with:

"Chicken one day....feathers the next!":lol:;-)

[Boz330]

Sort of vindicated myself yesterday. At least I was very happy with my performance and that is the reason I do it, along with the camaraderie.

Bob

[Pinsnscrews]

My son is rather color blind. Actually he is very color blind. He can lose dark objects in dark green grass very easily. He found that if he used the strongly polarized fishing glasses that the steels pretty much immediately showed up as a solid shape that stood out from the "grey" (his description) of the grass.

[Geezer in NH]

I understand aging eyes and they do get to be a problem. Mine are 75 years old and a heavy floater that is centered in my shooting eye and looking through the aperture on low light days the white spot on the irons are cut I halve. I see two white dots and when the sum is up and barrel heats up those two white spots are dancing all over the place, some times they look like two white spots dancing in two directions :)
OI like the violet lenses for black over green contrast at the berm. For me they make the black stand out better. Get a new lens with surgery it makes a big difference.

[Lead pot]

I been procrastinating that. But I don't think they can do anything about the heavy dark floater in the center of my vision. I have the holes drilled out in my apertures as far as I can with out getting into the threads to let more light through.
Or do what George Sutton "Mr. flint lock" had to do, shoot left handed.

Kurt

[country gent]

My issue isnt with the lense of the eye or eye itself. A few years ago a flair up with my MS got into right eyes optic nerve ( lnoy nerve that can be seen from outside the body) and it now looks like an hour glass. I shoot an MVA 6X malcomn scope on my rifles now. Due to mobility and balance issues I also shoot the offhand from the waist up sitting on my stool. I dont want to fall with a rifle loaded or un loaded. The other guys at these local matches are okay with it. I told both match directors if there was anyone with a problem with it I would pay the entry and shoot along but not be elgible for any "Prizes". Work and experiment with what works for you and helps. Shooting glasses, maybe a blinder. A hand towel drapped over the bill of you hat to keep glare frome sides down and put eyes in a light shade. SImple blinders can be cut from poster board ( think cheap plastic side shields) and put on and off glasses bows. The drawback to blinders and the towel is you have to literally look at spotting board to see it.

[Chill Wills]

Or do what George Sutton "Mr. flint lock" had to do, shoot left handed.

Kurt

We have had a number of master shooters here in Colorado and Kansas go to offset sights. Shoot right handed - aim left eyed. I wish I had a picture.

[Lead pot]

Chill I have seen the offset sights. I have been shooting off the bench left handed but, I have a hard time doing it off sticks.

We have a member at our range that shoots High power with a AR that lost his right eye from a guy that threw a firecracker at him and took out his right eye. He still shoots the AR at Perry right handed but cants the rifle so much that he uses his left eye shooting right handed.
I don't know how he does it but he does quite well at the matches.

[Doc Highwall]

Here is a set of off set mounts that look good. I bought a set of his Redfield 3200 scope rings and a base for my Browning BPCR and they look great.

http://www.steveearleproducts.com/otherscopemounts.html

[Chill Wills]

Here is a set of off set mounts that look good. I bought a set of his Redfield 3200 scope rings and a base for my Browning BPCR and they look great.

http://www.steveearleproducts.com/otherscopemounts.html

That is a good source to know about. I don't need them but plenty of people I shoot with might be interested in Steve Earl's product. Everything Steve makes is first rate. Until now, everything I have seen on rifles has been made custom by either the rifleman them self, who has their own home machine shop or by the good singleshot gunsmiths that regularly attend our matches.

Thanks for posting that.... Sorry for the highjack.

[country gent]

I set up a high power rifle with sights off sett 2 5/8" when the right eyes first went. Ut does work okay if you shoot one or 2 yardages. With added range windage makes changes also. Sights normally in a single plane centered over barrel. Offse they are in a double angle plane and things change in both directions. Think a double rifle regulated at 100 yds bullets havent came together at 50 and at 200 have crossed over each path and moving away from each other. It does work and with some work you can do well. This may be a good time to add a windage adjustable front sight also. Make distance windage changes up front and actual wind on rear.

[Doc Highwall]

It is called taking notes and keeping them with the gun.

I have one for each rifle and notes for different shooting ranges and distances. Things that are written down are
Date.
Range name and distance and shooting point.
Light direction along with wind direction and speed.
Ammo load and sight settings from a known distance or zero.
Other things also can be added too if it affects your shooting.

[Lead pot]

TNX. for the link Doc. I will keep it.

[Boz330]

One of the guys who I shoot with had to go to left handed shooting and does very well with it. My left eye is only correctable to 20-40 so that isn't an option if my right would go bad (God forbid).

Bob