Lee Seater die Q

[soldierbilly1]

one quick question:
I am reloading 9 mm using the Lee sizing die. The problem is the down stroke is difficult and the upstroke is considerably worse! I tried some mica on the case mouths and it was of little help, if any. All my cases are tumbled thoroughly so they are reasonably clean.

What to do? I am thinking of backing the die out, like 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Will this help or hurt?

Any suggestions? I am all ears!
thanks
Billboy

[Edward]

How clean is the die? Try spraying a little Hornady 1 shot case lube after cleaning your die .

[Bzcraig]

Are you talking about the sizing or seating die?

[soldierbilly1]

Are you talking about the sizing or seating die?
I apologize. Its the Sizing die, I corrected the title.
BillBoy

[TheDoctor]

I lube my 9mm before sizing. If loading progressive, too much pressure sizing them to feel everything else thats going on. So, they get pre-sized!

[MT Chambers]

I've only had that problem with cases with shoulders, get a proper set of dies esp. Redding carbide dies.

[troyboy]

Describe how you are installing and what press is used. I have no such issues with my Lee resizing die. Press needs a firm mount as well. Lube is not required with these dies. I suspect something in your tooling other then a die issue.

[xvigauge]

I have to agree with Mt. Chambers. I also have to ask the question, when will everyone learn that some Lee products are great, but their dies are pure junk?
xvigauge

[troyboy]

What you state is an opionion and not based in fact. Lets troubleshoot the problem not bash Lee.

[Silverboolit]

Have you tried mic'ing the resized case to see if it is the right size? Maybe have too small of sizing die?

[zuke]

Case's clean? dies adjusted properly? case mouth flare not too excessive?

[Motor]

Billboy. Is your size die a carbide size die?

Motor

[soldierbilly1]

To: all
My die is a Lee 9 mm sizer die, which I am assuming is a carbide die (??) Its part of a Lee deluxe kit. My cases are clean, die is adjusted according to the instructions. I am using a Lee turret. I have made 1000's upon 1000's of 9 mm reloads with this die!
I may have solved the problem. I backed off the deprime pin a little and that seemed to help a bit. I then put a little Imperial case sizing wax on the cases, and pow, the sizing force was greatly reduced!
I had previously cleaned the die but I guess I didn't do a good enough job.
What solvent do you all use when cleaning a sizing die or any die for that matter? How do I super clean this guy? Should I be lightly waxing every 3rd or 4th case? Any recommendations would be helpful.
Billboy

[Motor]

Normally a carbide die does not "require" lube but it doesn't hurt. I'm pretty sure that Dillon recommends lubing even with carbide dies to ease sizing effort on their progressive presses.

As far as cleaning dies go especially carbide you can use just about any solvent or detergent. The die body is steel of course so if you use water you want to make sure you dry it well. A light coat of oil isn't a bad idea either.

I would wipe the oil off of the carbide sizing ring.

Motor

[soldierbilly1]

Motor
Thanks for the help.

[OuchHot!]

I recall some time back that a heavily used carbide die started making a horrible shriek during sizing. I cleaned it with a Cu bore solvent and that seemed to cure it. It was not a lee die.

[soldierbilly1]

I recall some time back that a heavily used carbide die started making a horrible shriek during sizing. I cleaned it with a Cu bore solvent and that seemed to cure it. It was not a lee die.

Interesting. seems to make sense. I got some copper solvent, will report back!
billboy

[1hole]

Carbide dies were first made and sold before case tumblers became the vogue. Truth is, all dry cases need a tiny bit of lube and the 'smoked' fired cases provided all the lube that was needed so the dies were said to need no (additional) lube. Then we started tumbling and removed the last vestiges of bullet lube and smoke from the cases. So, do we 'need' to lube? Depends on the actual fired dimensions of your cases and the dimensions after sizing - but it can be hard to push a clean, dry, bare metal case into a similar die. I rub my fingers in Imperial or Unique before starting to size, that's usually enough to ease sizing and prevent galling in a carbide sizer.

There's rarely any benefit or justification to FL sizing straight wall cases as far down as possible. Back your sizer off a full turn and see if the case will go to battery; if it does, fine, if not lower the die until it does.


On the personal side, I've been reloading for some 50 years. I have several dozen dies sets by all current common die makers ('cept Dillon), including about a dozen brands that are no longer on the market. Several of my sets are Lee's, both handgun and rifle. I've actually measured the results from each one of my dies, both sizers and seaters, and have found NO average difference or advantage by brand. (And I've never found the best sizer to be factory packed with the best seater.) In fact, in my measurements I've found there's as much difference between dies of the same type in duplicate die sets; the variation runs as great between dies of the same maker as between makers and Lee's do quite as well as anyone's - and that includes RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, Forster and Redding plus other once common brands that are no longer in the market. (Herter's, Rhurr-American, Bonanza, White, Eagle, CH, Lachmiller. Pacific, Savage, Hollywood, and a few others.)

Maybe I'm to dumm and inexperienced to recognize Lee's dies as junk. But all of mine sure make good ammo so I can't help wondering by what measurement and how much experience and what results some experts stoutly proclaim Lee's dies to be junk. ??

[rsrocket1]

There's rarely any benefit or justification to FL sizing straight wall cases as far down as possible. Back your sizer off a full turn and see if the case will go to battery; if it does, fine, if not lower the die until it does.

Maybe I'm to dumm and inexperienced to recognize Lee's dies as junk. But all of mine sure make good ammo so I can't help wondering by what measurement and how much experience and what results some experts stoutly proclaim Lee's dies to be junk. ??

Unfortunately 9x19 Luger cases are not straight wall cases, they are tapered as per spec and yes, you really want to size them down as far as possible especially if you are using any range pickups. Actual 9mm chamber dimensions are all over the map and a gun that has a loose chamber to feed bullets reliably will spit out really wide brass that will need considerable force to size back down to proper dimensions. My M&P FS pistol barrel has a fairly snug chamber and I've discovered some brass that will not feed fully with the plunk test and found that it was the very bottom of the base that was causing the hang up. In most cases a true full length resize was sufficient, but sometimes you must use a push through sizer to get the cases to fit. I don't have one and for the half dozen cases I've run across that need them, I simply throw them into the recycle pile for scrap. Not worth the twenty cents.

Yes, 9mm is tougher to size than most other "straight wall" cases and you will wind up with more than typical brass dust on your press. Lubing the cases might help, but a simple cleaning of the carbide sizer might also be all that's needed.

[bedbugbilly]

So . . soldierbilly1 . . . do you think your decaying pin was extended down too far? I load with a Lee 4 die set and have never had issues with any of the dies. I have removed the de-capping pin from my sizer die though as I de-prime all my brass using a Lee universal de-primer - so my sizing die only gets used to size.

One question I do have is this. Are you using "range brass"? Range brass is all I've ever purchased and used - mixed head stamps. I'm a "plinker" not a competitive shooter so mixed head stamps work for me with my cast boolits. I purchased 5,000 + range brass from a member here and I did run in to some 9mm with the "Glock bulge" that I hadn't run in to before - on those, I noticed a little resistance going in to the sizing die but nothing to really worry about.

As far as Lee dies . . and the remarks against them . . . all I can go on is my own experiences. I have a number of Lee die sets in a variety of calibers. I've never had an issue with them at all. And, I also have other die brands - RCBS, Lyman, Pacific, CH, Lachmiller, etc. - and never had an issue with them either. To each their own I guess . . . but then I'm "color blind" and can't tell the difference between red, blue, green or whatever. All I care about is if the dies I have work . . . and all my Lee dies do.

Glad you got your problem ironed out . . . we all run in to problems once in a while and it sure helps to have others give their "take" on what's going on . . . sometimes we are so close and tied up with the issue that we have a problem seeing it. I know I always appreciate the help and input . . that's what makes this site such a pleasure to use. Good luck and enjoy!

[Case Stuffer]

The problem is the down stroke is difficult and the upstroke is considerably worse!

To me indicates build up on carbide insert and or needs a bit of lube.
I use homemade spray lube Liquid Lanolin and Iso heat and it works great for me.



I use brake cleaner to clean all of my loading dies , whatever store brand is on sale.

As mentioned above it is best to use some lube with carbide sizers even if it is not required. I also like to do a little polishing of the carbide ring / insert using Flitz or such from time to time and make sure the first few cases have lube on them after polishing and cleaning.

Note: Flitz is also very good for polishing up the expander ,especially for bottle neck cases. I had a .223/5.56 decaper / expander that was super tight on exit and Flitz on a cotton bore patch and spinning the expander in a drill press cured the issue up quickly.

[1hole]

Unfortunately 9x19 Luger cases are not straight wall cases, they are tapered as per spec and yes, you really want to size them down as far as possible especially if you are using any range pickups. Actual 9mm chamber dimensions are all over the map and a gun that has a loose chamber to feed bullets reliably will spit out really wide brass that will need considerable force to size back down to proper dimensions. My M&P FS pistol barrel has a fairly snug chamber and I've discovered some brass that will not feed fully with the plunk test and found that it was the very bottom of the base that was causing the hang up. In most cases a true full length resize was sufficient, but sometimes you must use a push through sizer to get the cases to fit. I don't have one and for the half dozen cases I've run across that need them, I simply throw them into the recycle pile for scrap. Not worth the twenty cents.

Yes, 9mm is tougher to size than most other "straight wall" cases and you will wind up with more than typical brass dust on your press. Lubing the cases might help, but a simple cleaning of the carbide sizer might also be all that's needed.

Read what I actually said again:

"There's rarely any benefit or justification to FL sizing straight wall cases as far down as possible. Back your sizer off a full turn and see if the case will go to battery; if it does, fine, if not lower the die until it does."

[oldfart1956]

Billy here's something you might want to try. Snatch up a gallon zip-lock bag and a can of cheap furniture polish. Pledge is great but I cheap-out and get the WalMart stuff. Open up the bag and shoot a quick spritz of the polish in there then dump a couple handfuls of brass in the bag an shake it up. I put about 400/500 pcs. at a time. Then dump it on the table or a old newspaper (if you're married) and let them dry. I do mine a day ahead but they dry right snappy. I love Imperial Wax mind ye but this saves getting it everywhere it's not needed. Audie...the lazy Oldfart..

[Case Stuffer]

"There's rarely any benefit or justification to FL sizing straight wall cases as far down as possible.

True however a 9mm is not a straight wall case. I use mostly military brass and have to use a small base carbide sizing die adjusted to make firm contact with the case holder or the cases will not plunk in my SA SC XD.

Years ago I had a Browning High Power that would chamber rounds which stop a good 1/8 " high in this SASCXD ,I know this for a fact as I had a couple thousand loaded rounds for the browing after I sold it and had to resize all of them to be able to use them in my new nine.