NOE Collar Button boolits for the 45/70 ...

[wquiles]

Got my NOE mold from the group buy - a great mold as usual. I used it to cast a couple of hundred bullets yesterday:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/NOE_CollarButton/20150411_144546.jpg


http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/NOE_CollarButton/20150411_144620.jpg


http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/NOE_CollarButton/20150411_165338.jpg




With my alloy they came to about 184.6gr:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/NOE_CollarButton/20150411_161421.jpg




I loaded 4x dummy rounds to test cycling on my Marlin (they worked great!) and I am crimping them in the middle of the forward band:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/NOE_CollarButton/20150411_182114.jpg


http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/NOE_CollarButton/20150411_182213.jpg




Here after sizing, waiting for Ben's lube to dry so that I can actually load some real rounds to try:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/casting/NOE_CollarButton/20150411_193223.jpg




Will

[dondiego]

Did they cast at 0.460?

[wquiles]

Did they cast at 0.460?

Yes. With my alloy (between 14-15 BHN, air dropped), they came out between .4604" and .4607" per my micrometer.

I don't know how well they actually shoot - but I do hope to try in the next week or so :)

Will

[smoked turkey]

Those boolits came out very nice. I haven't made the plunge yet for the collar button mold, but I think it is coming. I would be very interested in your reloading recipe if you would share it. I am wondering if you are using something like dacron filler to take up the air space in the brass and to keep the powder charge down on top of the primer? Or perhaps the powder you are using is not position sensitive. I am just concerned about the big case and what I assume is a light powder charge. It might not be that at all but just wondering. Thanks.

[wquiles]

I generally have found (backed with a chronograph) that powders I have used have in fact been position sensitive, so I lately either use a bulky powder and try to achieve at least 85% fill, or use a faster powder and use a filler (Dacron or in the case of the 45/70, 1/2" diameter foam (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-E-O-1-2-in-x-20-ft-Poly-Foam-Caulk-Saver-C22H/100159362) which I find even easier to use than Dacron).

My current alloy comes at between 14-15BHN, and according to this page (http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm) I need about 19-20Kpsi to achieve obturation. I have been looking at various choices with QuickLoad, and with TrailBoss at 15gr (86% full - no filler needed) I get about 1500fps, at 16.4Kpsi, and with 16gr I get almost 1600fps at 18.2Kpsi. So given the powders I have, TrailBoss at 16gr (91% fill) should work well (and without a filler), so that is likely what I will try first.

Will

[cold1]

I just recieved mine on saturday. Very nice mold. I think I will be using a small amount of reddot and very slow speeds for it in my marlin and my original Trapdoor.

[smoked turkey]

Will, thanks for the detailed info on the use of TrailBoss powder. I have never used any but I read about it all the time so I might have to try it. I have reddot, a bit of bullseye, and unique. I would really like to have some loads that use something I already have for obvious reasons. I have pushed a 145 gr roundball with 6.5 gr of Unique for pretty good 40 yard accuracy (about 2"), but I am not sure how to hold the powder against the primer for more uniform ignition. I did try a small square of single ply toilet tissue and it worked but I would need to do some more shooting with it before I would feel it was a workable solution. I was hoping someone would chime in and say something like "I have shot hundreds of rounds just that way and it works" or something to that order. It might save me some load development time. Thanks again. Good shooting to you Will.
cold1 if you don't mind I would like to hear how your reddot loadings go when you get to it. Thanks and also hope it works good for you.

[rollmyown]

Very nice work. Do collar button boolits offer advantages over round ball in terms of accuracy, range and fouling control?

I have no experience with either.

[osteodoc08]

I've got this mold on order. Can't wait to try it out. I've never tried Dacron before so that'll be an adventure. I've got a can or 2 of TrailBoss. I'd say pound but they come in, what, 9 ounce cans? I've also got some faster powders to try like Titegroup.

[zuke]

I think I just found my next mold

[35remington]

The collar button bullets, due to their very light weight, were really intended for use with light charges of fast powder approximating Bullseye or Red Dot. 1500 fps is really beyond the scope of the original intent, which was a light low recoil load miserly on lead that was suitable for short range practice or small game hunting. A plainbase bullet of extra light weight spun faster than is ideal in rifling twists intended for longer bullets at 1600 fps? Good luck getting that to shoot well! That's usually somewhat more speed than plainbase bullets are capable of with accuracy even if they are of standard weight.

As such, about 1000 fps and below is the "right" range for these. I can't really envision a purpose for shooting them at high velocity with the increased noise, and they're really not a big game or deer bullet. Small game and pests within its accurate range does not need a whole lot of velocity. Due to its light weight sight adjustments are needed, of course, but they are a lotta fun.

[osteodoc08]

Subsonic would be to my liking.

[dlbarr]

Nice looking bullets, Will.

Interested to see the shooting results when you get to it.

[rollmyown]

35remington, thanks for your explanation of this boolit type.

[cold1]

Rainy Weekend here so I had time to break out the mold for my first run. My mix is 50/50 COWW and pure lead. It took a while to figure out how to run this mold (remember I am still a Noob). I kept getting wrinkled boolits so I cranked the the heat up on the pot. Once I figure out where I needed to be on mold temp things really went smooth. It didnt take long before the pot was empty. I got a couple hundred of them now. Hopefully will get them loaded up with some reddot tomorrow. Its supposed to rain all day tomorrow too so I probably wont get to shoot any of them.

[texassako]

The collar button bullets, due to their very light weight, were really intended for use with light charges of fast powder approximating Bullseye or Red Dot. 1500 fps is really beyond the scope of the original intent, which was a light low recoil load miserly on lead that was suitable for short range practice or small game hunting. A plainbase bullet of extra light weight spun faster than is ideal in rifling twists intended for longer bullets at 1600 fps? Good luck getting that to shoot well! That's usually somewhat more speed than plainbase bullets are capable of with accuracy even if they are of standard weight.

As such, about 1000 fps and below is the "right" range for these. I can't really envision a purpose for shooting them at high velocity with the increased noise, and they're really not a big game or deer bullet. Small game and pests within its accurate range does not need a whole lot of velocity. Due to its light weight sight adjustments are needed, of course, but they are a lotta fun.

That is what I thought, but then I got Lyman's data that is mostly 1500-2000 fps. Maybe they were just looking at pressures, and not functional, accurate loads. The slowest listed load is 21gr of IMR-4227 at 1245 fps and only 5200 CUP pressure.

[cold1]

Finally had a few minutes to shoot the collar buttons. Loaded them up with 7.1g reddot and TL with Alox. 3 shots over chrony gave me 1017fps, 964 fps, 976 fps. Accuracy at 30 yards was about 4 inches for 3 shots. I think it could be better i was in fading light and in a hurry. The gun is Marlin 1895 micro groove. No leading was seen. Hope to shoot some more for accuracy soon.

[dlbarr]

Finally had a few minutes to shoot the collar buttons. Loaded them up with 7.1g reddot and TL with Alox. 3 shots over chrony gave me 1017fps, 964 fps, 976 fps. Accuracy at 30 yards was about 4 inches for 3 shots. I think it could be better i was in fading light and in a hurry. The gun is Marlin 1895 micro groove. No leading was seen. Hope to shoot some more for accuracy soon.

Try 10gr Unique under that collar button. I got a 5-shot, one hole group @ 25 yds with a swaged HBWC out of my handi-rifle.