Lube frustration

[longhauler]

My first pan lubing did not turn out like planned. Melted down 1 lb. beeswax - 1 lb. paraffin wax - 8 oz. of STP - heaping taplespoon of Carnuba wax. Stirred well - heated bullets and applied with basting tool. Left it stand 24 hours. Now when I try to push boolits out some lube does not stay in groves. Made a cooky cutter and that works a little better. But the lube is sticky and bends like a wet noodle - doesn't break and seems quite soft - seems to stick to everything except the boolits. I am lubing 200 gr. .45 SWC boolits. Can I get more "hardness" by melting more paraffin in it? Any and all suggestion welcomed!! I have tumble lubed same boolits with the 45-45-10 reciepe and they seem to be curing just fine.

[Outpost75]

Not sure where you got your lube recipe, but 1 part Dexron ATF to 4 parts of beeswax, by melted liquid volume works well and has a nice consitency.

[runfiverun]

I'd be more inclined to use more beeswax.
the paraffin and that whole bunch of carnuba you put in there are both brittle and tend to break.
the sticky is from the paratack in the stp.

[longhauler]

So runfiverun - If I add more beeswax (making it 2 lb. beeswax to1 lb. paraffin wax) -- that will make the lube harder-firmer? Should help dilute the stickiness some also.

[runfiverun]

it will.
the carnuba you got in the mix is a bunch, usually 3% is sufficient.
I wouldn't go to a full pound of B-wax right off, mix in about 4 oz and check it by trying to lube some boolits and adjust a bit from there.

you want a little tackiness to a lube, but not enough so that it sticks to your fingers and pulls out of the lube grooves.

[longhauler]

O.K. Thanks a lot for the info. Will give that a try with beeswax.

[longhauler]

One other thing that has me wondering about this lube -- the small amount of lube that seems to be on the boolit base - will that have any effects on powder ignition or performance??? The boolits have a slight bevel on the base that helps in seating the boolit but also seems to collect a small ring of lube. Should I have bought a mold that drops flat based boolits??? I will be loading these boolits in .45 Colt and .45 ACP. I have read that the Lee Alox does not effect powder performance or ignition but with the STP in the pan lube I would wonder about it.

[runfiverun]

it could if it migrates into the powder.
just wipe the base off the residue that's left should be no problem.

I prefer flat base boolits myself [shrug] but have shot several designs with a slight bevel and have had no issues.

[Outpost75]

Paraffin must be used with a plasticizer. Vaseline or lanolin work OK in equal parts by melted volume.

Equal parts of paraffin, vaseline and lanolin makes a good lube.

[longhauler]

I added 8 oz. more of beeswax so mixture is 1 lb. 8 oz. of beeswax -- 1 lb. of paraffin -- and 8 oz. of STP. The lube is still flexible and when trying to push the boolits out from front or back I have very little luck in the lube staying in the groove. I used my cookie cutter and that is the only way to get boolits out with any lube in groove. I would like a lube that I can just push the boolits out of the lube without having to do the cookie cutter thing. The lube groove is radius and kind of shallow -- Lee's 200gr. SWC in .452 size. Weather permitting I will see how they shoot tomorrow. How stiff is your lube, outpost75?? Where can I find lanolin???

[runfiverun]

that's true,,, mineral oil is another good one.
I know some of the oil additives have a mineral oil base [regular stp,, not sure. /I know their limited slip additive has a mineral oil base and zddp too]

[runfiverun]

you can buy lanolin from randy rat here on the site.
you could also buy a tube of lanosil nipple cream at the local pharmacy section.
nursing mothers use it.
it is however not anhydrous but has the other ingredients you need.

with the mix you have and the lube groove your using getting the lube to do what you want is going to be very difficult.
the cookie cutter approach is going to be your best bet really.

[smoked turkey]

I say +1 to the cookie cutter also. I have been the route you want to use and had similar results that you did. A while back in the swapping and selling section a guy was making aluminum cutters that appeared to be very nice and worked good. The price wasn't too bad either. You might use the search function by putting in "cookie cutter" or something like that and find the guy. I really think you won't find pan lubing happiness until you get a proper cutter.

[longhauler]

Yup I have come to the same conclusion about the cookie cutter. Will have to start "modifiying" it to be more user friendly!! Thanks for the advice and information and remember -- Truck'm easy - truck'm safe - don't put your fingers any place you wouldn't put your face!!!:bigsmyl2:

[Cmm_3940]

Pushing the boolits out can be tricky, and takes experimentation and practice. Every lube recipe will act a bit differently. I find the lube cake needs to be the right temperature, or it just won't work for me. Try it too soon, you get a sticky mess. Wait too long, the lube is too hard and pulls out of the grooves, leaving you with nothing to show for your time but sore thumbs. Most of the lube I use is fairly stiff and the boolits push out best when they are slightly warm to the touch, say, 100° - 120° or so. I find using a cutter to be easier.

I got a lubesizer for Christmas, so I hope to not be doing much pan lubing from now on. I won't miss it.

[runfiverun]

I believe the vendor of those cutters was 'the cyberguy'.
I haven't seen him around for a bit, but you should be able to p.m. him.

[Springfield]

Most LEE bullets have such a small lube groove it is difficult to pan lube them. Use a better bullet mould from Accurate or NOE and they will be much easier to lube. I use a Star and the lube on the bullets seems like almost nothing compared to the other moulds I use, but the bullets work fine in my wife's low pressure cowboy bullets. When I used to pan lube I found that beeswax/crisco in a 50/50 mix worked well as long as pushed out the bullets while the wax was still warm.

[country gent]

One other side plus to the cookie cutter is it leaves the holes in the lube cake for the next bacth of bullets to set in making keeping them standing up right much easier and also only having to add a very small amount of lube to bring up to volumne. Set boolits in holes. Set pan in a slightly bigger pan and water melt lube and add to bring up to hieght wait for it to melt and set off to side to cool. By using the double boiler set up you reduce risk of fire and scourching your lube.

[fredj338]

Just one reason I bought a lube/sizer. It's just easier. I would tumble lube before pan lubing again.

[Iowa Fox]

I've done it but I'd rather take a shape stick to the eye than pan lube. Lubesizers can be found cheap if one looks around. Couple months ago I bougth a nice 450 with a size die & top punch in it for $40 at a gunshow. That makes 4-450s 1-Lam and one Star. That way I can keep them all loaded with a different lube.

[Cmm_3940]

I've done it but I'd rather take a shape stick to the eye than pan lube. Lubesizers can be found cheap if one looks around. Couple months ago I bougth a nice 450 with a size die & top punch in it for $40 at a gunshow. That makes 4-450s 1-Lam and one Star. That way I can keep them all loaded with a different lube.

Hoarder. :kidding:

[Butchman205]

There are a good many lubesizers out there, that just need a good cleaning and possibly new o-rings. I tried pan lubing, and I'm no good at it.
I like using vintage equipment (stealing a line from others here), and the lubesizers work pretty well.
I'm not saying pan-lubing doesn't work, but to me it's like watching that little guy spinning 100 plates on sticks...I see it can be done, but I'm not any good at it.
My next venture will be making my own lube sticks from a buttload of bee wax I have from 10+ years of beekeeping.
It's a cool thing to me, to make my own boolits and lube....from start to finish.

[cajun shooter]

Longhauler, I have been at this casting and sizing and lubing business since 1970. I don't know where or from whom you received your recipe but they have many of them that are much better. You could use up a ton of ingredients with your present mix and not have a good bullet lube. Why not go to the sticky section and pick out another one to make. STP by it's very nature is made to be sticky and beeswax is not a lube but what is known as the carrier of the lube recipe.
If I was you I would choose one that contained Lanolin as it is found in a lot of good recipes because it conditions the inside of your barrel and adds to the lube parts of the mix. Most pharmaceutical supply houses sell it for a good price, like $6 or so for 7 ounces. I use the NOW brand myself.
A small amount of Carnauba wax will make a sticky lube easier to handle and it will also condition the bore. Some lube recipes are very easy to make and they work well for most bullets. Your present one should be replaced. Later David

[lastborn]

I'll throw in my .2 cents for free. I used to pan lube, now RCBS Lube-A-Matic. If I had to pan lube again I would use speed green. [recipe is in the lube section] Very easy to make and it WORKS!

[Elkins45]

That's a LOT of STP. No wonder it was floppy.

[GhostHawk]

Might consider dip lubing, simply grab the bullet by the nose, fingers work on bigger bullets, or you can make a wire loop to dunk with. Or you could grab it with a forceps or pliers. Quick dip into melted lube.

Another thing I'm finding that works is tumble lubing with traditional lube.

I put a chunk of lube about the size of a big pat of butter in a glass dish.
Drop my boolits in as I cast, boolits are hot so the lube melts.
Every so often as I am casting I use a towel to pick up the bowl and give it a little swirl to start the lube working.

When I have 50 or so I transfer them to a larger container and swirl every so often as they cool.

From there you can install gas checks if needed, run them through sizer.
The tumbling action seems to keep moving the lube into the grooves where it sticks.

I have been finishing with a touch of Ben's Liquid Lube, and let them air dry overnight. Nicer less sticky finish and holds everything in place.

There are options out there, to me the pan lubing was the messiest, and least effective of them all, but that is just me.
Find out what works for you!

[Landshark9025]

So, I've recently begun pan lubing after a friend here convinced me to try conventional lubes(thankfully). I started with a 50-50 mix of beeswax and this:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-Multi-Duty-Grease-1-lb/16795246
Shooting results were great, but when it came time to load, I would get small voids in the lube groove of Lee 358-140 SWC. When that happend I would just wipe a bit on the offending spot before seating the boolit. That seemed to work.
I upped the beeswax slightly so it was 60% and that problem went away. So it is a very simple recipe with only two ingredients.

Using a cookie cutter was the only way, plus it allows me to cut the boolit out, push it out of the cutter slightly, wipe the base and drop it in the box.

I use pie plates and put them in a toaster oven for 10 minutes at about 250 degrees. If I do it for five minutes, it didn't seem to work as well. The process works like this:
1. Load up the pie plate
2. Bake for 10 minutes
3. Remove and let cool. When the center section of the bottom of the pie plate is still warm, commence cutting.
4. Cut, wipe, drop
5. Lee push through sizer. Maybe right away....maybe a week or so later.

I can fit about 60 or so on a pie tin and it takes about 20 minutes to cut them out. The amount of time it takes to cool is dependant on temperature, etc. Just having a fan on it can make a big difference.

No matter what, whether it is due to being slightly uneven on the transfer, uneven cooling station or when going through the sizer, you will get lube on the nose. SWC are worse for this. I usually just load up about 200 then wipe the noses while watching some TV, then throw them in the tumbler for an hour if I REALLY care.

It works, I can do about 200 an hour and once the lube is mixed, I can do it inside without stinking up the place. The original mixing process I recommend doing in the garage or outside though.

Edit to change quantity per pie tin to 60. Not sure what I was thinking at 100.

[gwpercle]

Just one reason I bought a lube/sizer. It's just easier. I would tumble lube before pan lubing again.

I with fredj338 on this. My pan lubings were...not good. The optimal word is messy. I can make a mess with cotton balls, hot melted lube was a disaster, got it on floor , shirts , pants and then the dog! My wife was "upset" . Drove down to local dealer and bought Lyman 450...best thing since home central heating and cooling units. Lube clean and wife doesn't get upset. I still have some things that have spilled melted wax stains on them. Just get a lube sizer if you are a messy person.

Gary

[fredj338]

Plus paraffin has never been a good carrier. I would just go BW & STP, but the amount of STP seems high.

[tallwalker]

I did my 1st pan lube last weekend and actually had a pretty good time with it. Just melted 50/50 beeswax and crisco, and added scant coconut oil. Melted it in a large soup can then poured into a pie pan with bullets (.456 500gr) up to what looked good. Let the mix gel until it was only slightly warm but still cuttable, and used a chamfered brass tube about ten inches long to cut and stack. Once the tube filled up I just pushed them out on their sides with a wooden dowel. Did about 200 in no time at all.

This weekend since it went so well, I decided to make a big batch of wads for the.36 cal Navy. I used a hole punch and some canvas ducking I had plenty of. Heated up my soup can full of stuff and dipped them. Laid them out on wax paper to harden, then put them in a pellet tin. Dusted the works with some cornstarch and shook the tin to coat them. Works great! All stuff I had plenty of laying around anyway. For me, half the fun of messing with BP is just having fun finding out what works and doesn't.

[44man]

Paraffin is where the trouble starts. Carnauba is very hard and brittle. Only a pinch is enough. Some things just do not go together.

[randyrat]

Dip lube to use your lube up, why waste it.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?189546-Dip-lubing-lead-boolits
A curved pair of needle noose pliers work the best for dipping
Also, in Minnesota you don't have to worry about lube melting off your bullets and ruining the powder unless you leave them in a hot car in the sun maybe in July or august.