Andy's Rust Blue thread WIP

[andremajic]

This thread is to show a step by step guide on how to rust blue some steel. It is a very forgiving process, but it is time intensive, so there is no instant gratification like the hot blue. If you persevere though, you will get the excellent results and a durable blue job that is rare to find nowadays on our mass produced firearms.

Step one. Get your metal prepped by sanding down with progressively finer grades of sandpaper. The finest grade you would probably want to use is about 350-400 grit. Anything finer would be a waste of time, as the acid will etch your finely polished surface and bring a lot of that hard work back down to about a 350 grit polish. Hand polish your parts. Do not use the belt sander, ok?

I would highly recommend using a sanding block for flats to keep the corners sharp. The direction of the sanding should be in the same direction, but it is not absolutely necessary to do so. TRY to get everything going in the same direction. I intentionally sanded in both directions to show that this is not critical to get good results, but MAY show up in the finish later.

Just like painting, prep work makes the final result look fair, good, or great! The rusting process will eliminate most of your small imperfections in your sanding job, so don't worry too much if it doesn't shine like a mirror. Just get it sanded down as best as you can an eliminate any pitting or deep scratches, as these can be spotted when the job is finished

For this exercise I will be using a small jewelers hammer that I picked up at a local pawn shop for 1.00
Always start your first project on something that is cheap so you can gain confidence and get a feel for how it works. Long story short, don't get the Winchester 1873 family heirloom out of the safe yet!

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You will want to clean all traces of oil/wax/grease off of the part. The only problem I've ever had rust bluing a part was a rifle treated with silicone. That stuff is a nightmare to remove!

I use regular dishwasher detergent to remove any oil from my parts. It has a high alkalinity and is made to be aggressive on grease. Rinse with plenty of hot water. Try to handle the part with bare hands as little as possible. Using gloves is recommended, but not absolutely necessary. (Did I mention that this process is extremely forgiving?

To be continued...stand by...

[andremajic]

Next we're going to lay out our supplies:

Hair dryer or heat gun
Wire to suspend object to avoid handling
cotton swabs
gloves
hemostats (optional)
eye dropper (optional)
small container
newspaper

Ok, so what we're going to do is to keep from contaminating our big bottle of solution, we're going to pour out a small amount in a dish. A little goes a long ways. What you see in the pic is probably enough for a couple rifles, so you don't have to use as much as I did!

By having it in the small dish, you can use an eye dropper to put some of the solution on your cotton swabs and hold it with the hemostats to avoid introducing oils from your skin. This prevents cross contamination if you decided to dump the remainder back into your main larger bottle.

You could just wear rubber gloves, but I didn't have any on hand today, so I just handle the soaked cotton with the hemostats instead.

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Pick up your object and heat it up nice and hot with your hair dryer or heat gun. Squeeze out excess solution from the cotton swab with a gloved hand and make long strokes up and down the part. You want the cotton swab wet, but not soaking wet.

We're trying to avoid streaks, but don't worry too much if you get them, they will disappear and blend in with later applications.

Here's a pic after the first application. Notice the color change from bright and shiny to a slightly blue/purple color?
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Here's a closer pic:
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Second application: get a new cotton swab and get it wet, squeeze out the excess and re-apply after heating your part with the heat gun:
Notice how the color is deeper?
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After a couple of times heating and applying the solution, you will start to approach some diminishing returns on the color, just make sure you continue applying heat and solution until you have a pleasing look, with little amounts of streaks as possible.
A light touch is preferable to hard pressure, as you will rub off some of the previous layer if you are rough with it.

Fourth application:
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Fifth application:
Doesn't have many streaks showing and a decent color change has occurred.
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This is good enough for the first application, and since I'm in Southern Alabama, and it's already humid, I will hang this in a protected area outside and let nature do it's thing. If you want a more controlled environment, you can put it in a corner of your bathroom and the humidity from taking a shower should help it rust.
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Now we wait a day and come back to check on it tomorrow. It should have a nice even light coating of rust over everything the next day.

To be continued...

Ok it's day 2!

So it rained last night and probably will today. The part got a couple drops of rain on it that made it look a bit streaky, but I will show you that even THIS is fine and will not affect the end result! (Did I mention that this process is quite forgiving?)

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Our supplies today will be:

Distilled water
0000 steel wool (degreased with brake cleaner)
A holding container for the boiling water

Anything that can hold boiling water will work for this part. You can fabricate a PVC tube with an end cap like this for an entire rifle:
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This PVC tube takes a 2 gallon pot of boiling distilled water to fill. I cover it with a piece of aluminum foil to help keep evaporated liquid to stay inside as it sits.

You can use a small Stainless saucepan to boil your small part and water on the stove. Whatever the size of the part dictates.

You want to get the water to a rolling boil. I will let it boil and top off periodically for evaporation. Or you can just get the water to a rolling boil, and then pour it in your holding container with the part and let it "steep" like tea.

Continued in next post...

[M-Tecs]

Thanks for providing this information!!!!! Great posts. Looking forward to the future ones.

[andremajic]

After boiling the water and letting the part sit in the hot water, you'll know the part is done when the part/gun is all black. You shouldn't see any red rust anymore. If you do, you either need to wait longer, or boil the water again and pour it in your holding container. I've noticed that a rolling boil on the stove converts faster than sitting in a container. You can pretty much double the time if it's not being actively heated.

In other words, if it takes 10 minutes of boiling on the stove, it should take 20-25 minutes of sitting in hot water in a holding container. (Not actively boiling) There is no SPECIFIC time to wait, either it's turned black or it has to wait longer. Your patience will be rewarded. Don't freak out if it hasn't converted yet. Wait it out.

Here's the part after boiling for about 5 minutes:
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Notice how already some of it has started to turn black?

Ok, so I fished it out of the water after about 25 minutes of sitting. Here's what it looks like now:
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Notice how it looks a little mottled? That's from the rain, and it will come out with additional applications.

Now get your denim, degreased steel wool, or carding wheel and "lightly" brush the excess black oxide off your part. You're not trying to scrub it, just getting rid of stuff that wipes off easily with a light touch.

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Nice eh? Now we're going to go back and reapply bluing solution to it again and completely cover the part.

Heat it up again with your hairdryer or heat gun. From this point forward, you will be using a light touch to apply the solution, and try to get coverage in one pass. Don't go over the same place twice, or it will start to be counterproductive and eat away your black oxide. I applied 2 very light coats of solution to the part after heating.
This is what it looks like now:
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After this, you're done for the day. Hang it up in a humid area and wait another 24 hours. It can about 10 of these cycles of rusting, boiling, and carding to get just the right depth of shade and quality that you like. I've done it in less, but each piece of metal is different. Patience will be rewarded.
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You can take your distilled water that has little chunks of rust in it, strain it thru a coffee filter, and continue using it for all the rest of the steps. As long as it doesn't have chemicals or minerals in it, it should last for your entire project. Top if off with fresh distilled as it evaporates. Waste not, want not!

To be continued in 24 hours...

[shooter93]

You just can't beat rust bluing in my opinion. I set up a long boil take that will hold two barreled actions at once. I've been using Pilkington's solution and card off with steel wool. Another great thing about rust bluing to me is....when it does start to wear it looks better than a sudden shine spot in a gloss blue. It might be where the term gun metal gray came from. I'm sold on the system and virtually every rifle I own is rust blued. Nice post and some good information.

[andremajic]

Day 3 of the process.
I'm going to take fewer pictures, because we're basically doing the same steps over and over again.

The part has sat outside for 24 hours in the humid Alabama air and has a light coat of rust on it:
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Now the blotchy look red spots you see are spots of exposed steel that the black oxide still has to attach to. The darker spots are places that the black rust has permanently attached to. Each coating, boiling, carding, and reapplication will result in smaller and smaller areas of rust until the whole thing is covered.

Here it is boiled, and carded.
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You will notice that as time goes on it takes less time to convert the rust by boiling. This only time it only took 5 minutes to convert the red rust to black oxide, when the first time it took around 15-20 minutes.

Here it is again with a new light coating of bluing solution. Do this with one pass and a light touch. Then I hung it up outdoors again for another 24 hours.
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See you in another 24 hours!

[SSGOldfart]

starting to look good already and you haven't started bluffing it yet?

[andremajic]

starting to look good already and you haven't started bluffing it yet?

Thanks. I'm using a piece of denim to buff off the loose black oxide after boiling it in distilled water.

Here it looks like after bringing it inside after rusting for 24 hours:
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Here it is after boiling 5 minutes in distilled water and then carding off the black oxide with a piece of old denim. It looks nice enough right now if you wanted to oil it up, (for a hammer head!) but I'm not satisfied with it yet.
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Here it is after getting another coat of bluing solution and hanging up in my bathroom:
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The weather is really nasty outside. The wind is blowing hard and there are sheets of rain pouring down. I'm going to be doing the final rusting in my bathroom. All you have to do is hang up your part and take a shower without turning on your ventilation fan. Let it sit overnight.

Another idea that works is just turning your oven on low and setting a pan of water on the lowest rack with your part suspended above it. (A poor man's sweat box)

Check back in 24 hours!

[andremajic]

After letting it rust overnight, boiling in distilled water, and carding off the black oxide, I got a color I like. Use WD-40 to displace any water that might be hiding in microscopic pores, and then add a light gun oil and let it sit a couple days. The bluing is pretty tough right now, but will get ever stronger over 3-4 days time.

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You can buy WD-40 at hardware stores by the gallon, so you shouldn't have a problem finding enough to immerse your parts. I usually just wipe it on thick and cover everything, let it sit a couple minutes, then wipe off the excess.

Critique: I did notice a a bit of light pitting that showed thru the final finish. I blame the 2 days it was exposed to the outdoor weather for this. If you use a more controlled environment like your bathroom or a covered shed outdoors it will prevent this from happening.
Here's a pic outdoors in the bright sunlight:
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Another thing is to prep the metal so it doesn't have any pits in the metal at all when you start. If there are pits, they will grow larger as you use the rust blue. That is why the controlled environment helps.

If your finish has some minor issues, all you have to do is use sanding paper to knock it back down to bare metal and re-apply bluing over the spot you sanded. You won't have to sand the whole thing down again. New bluing blends in with old bluing. Since this is a hammer head, I'm going to say "good enough" and use it as it is.

I hope this shows how, even with mistakes and not doing everything perfectly the kind of results you can get at home using rust bluing. Practice on small things like a hand tool or hunks of iron until you get the technique down then move on to firearms.



My next project will be an old arisaka floor plate that had a bunch of pitting and rust.
Here it is with a basic sanding with 280 grit:
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There are lots of pits and machining marks that will need to be removed. I'll update the thread when I get the metal prepped well enough to start.

It's noteworthy that if you want to match a factory finish that you start sanding with a fine grit, and work your way down in coarseness until the freshly sanded part matches the factory sanding. Some gun companies use different grits on different parts of the gun for contrast. If you don't care about historical accuracy, get it as polished as shiny as you want!

Update: April 15
After a LOT of polishing with a final grit of 350, using a block to keep the flats flat, and as many pits eliminated as possible, it looks like this:
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Andy

Continued...

[andremajic]

Used some automatic dishwashing detergent and hot water to scrub any traces of oil off of it. The water should "sheet" on it when it's clean enough and not "bead". Use a heat gun to dry.

Here it is after heating and coating it about 3 coats of my rust blue solution. Use the heat gun between coats to help it dry fast and achieve a uniform coat with minimum streaks.

It's hung up inside my bathroom to rust overnight.

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It's a nice plum brown/purplish color right now. We'll check back on it tomorrow afternoon.

Andy

[nekshot]

very informative, I am enjoying it. Got on a epoxy binge last year but now I have the blueing urge again!

[andremajic]

It's been 24 hours, and the part has a light coating of rust on it. Sorry about the blurry pic, it was moving when I took the snapshot:
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I've boiled about 1 gallon of distilled water and then poured it over the part and let it sit in a tall crockpot until it was turned to black oxide. (All the crockpot did was help retain the heat. If your crockpot can boil water, you can just keep the distilled water in it and put the cover on it when you're done for the next day.)

This is a pic after carding off any of the loose black oxide. You can use a soft bristled toothbrush to help get in the nooks and crannies, or use balled up degreased 0000 steel wool, or even denim.
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Next I applied another layer of "Andy's rust blue" solution and hung it up in the bathroom again. It's already significantly darker than the last project. (Lower carbon content = faster rusting) It will probably only take 2 applications to get the color I want.
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Check back in 24 hours!

[andremajic]

Here it is after sitting 24 hours:
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Sorry to take so long to post. I had about 50 labels to affix to my rust bluing solution bottles and I just got back to check on it.

I heat it up in the distilled water and let it boil. Let it sit about 30 minutes.
Carded off the loose black oxide, and it looks beautimus. (That's a word my gun smith taught me.) It looks really nice. Only 2 rusting sessions were needed for this part!

Slathered it up with WD-40 and let it sit for a couple days for the bluing to "cure". I'll need to take a pic in sunlight tomorrow, because this pic doesn't do it justice!
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See how easy this is?

Here's a better pic outdoors. It's partially overcast, but it's better light than indoors.
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I have a list of people signing up for my bottles of "Andy's Slow Rust Bluing" in the swapping and selling section. Feel free to peruse my thread. Please read from start to finish for any answers you might be asking.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?278128-Andy-s-Rust-Blue-solution!-16-oz-12-00-per-bottle-15-28-UPS-Ground-shipping!&highlight=

Andy

[sparky45]

When do you plan on selling the rust blue solution?

[andremajic]

Last night I PMed everyone on my list. You were on it sparky45.

[M-Tecs]

I should be on your list. No PM?

[andremajic]

I PMd you too.

No one got it?

Ok I'll send it out again.

[Hannibal]

Did I make the 'list'? No PM . . . ?

[andremajic]

Sent you a PM Expanman...

[La Dano]

Put me on the list for the next batch.

[andremajic]

Here we have an AR-15 Barrel which has been prepped by taking off the old paint on the barrel and doing a crosshatch pattern with a machinist file. It's hard to see in the pic, but it looks like the scraping you see on cast iron machinery. I want this to have a matte finish when it's done.

The gas port has been taped over so that there will be less rusting around where the gas block is fit, and some oversize dowels have been crammed in the chamber and muzzle to help handle it without getting oils from my hands on it.
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It's hard to see because the picture was taken at the end of the day, but the barrel has already been given a couple coats of rust blue, followed by a heating.

This is what it looks like after sitting in the bathroom for 24 hours
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There is a thin layer of rust.

I left a 5 gallon bucket to collect the precipitation outdoors. I heated up the water to a rolling boil, then poured it into my capped piece of PVC with the rusted barrel inside and let it sit 30 minutes.
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After carding off the loose black oxide and reapplying some rust blue, I set it in a corner of the bathroom for another 24 hours. Notice the strip that isn't rusted where the black electrical tape was?

You don't have to plug your barrel, I just did it for ease of handling, and to keep the oils of my hand off it. I took the tape off to give it a chance to rust as well, even though the gas block will be covering up this portion of the barrel.

After another 24 hours there is a little more rust, but it's harder to see in the pics:
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Here it is after a boil and carding:
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Nice.

I like the color right now, it's a dark gunmetal grey color, but I'm going to make it blacker. Time to give it another coat and another rust for 24 hours.

Update: OK, it's day 3 and there is an extremely light coat of rust left on the barrel after 24 hours. It's almost like a dusting of it that you have to look hard in this picture to see.
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Here it is after boiling and carding.
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And here it is after a nice thick coating of rem-oil. This is a thirsty finish. I've had to do 2 coats already, and it's sucked up into the pores after sitting a couple minutes.
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I'm happy with the color and finish of this barrel, so after 3 coats it's done and ready to re-install.

Here's a pic of the upper receiver assembled.
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Andy

[SSGOldfart]

Andy if your pm mail box is full your out going Pm's won't work either???????

[andremajic]

Andy if your pm mail box is full your out going Pm's won't work either???????

I did a bunch of cleaning in my inbox. I have under 20 messages in there now. I

think it had to do with sending multiple PMs at the same time. Never used that function before.

Andy

[wwmartin]

I'll give it a try. Put me on the list.
Bill

[pworley1]

Very impressive work.

[adrians]

Got my bottle today,,, Thanks Andy.

[andremajic]

S&W uses up to 32 different contour/shape wheels to polish one revolver. and a very experienced guy at the buffing wheel. Unless you want to ruin a bunch of firearms, don't ever use power buffers to do your finish. You've been warned!

Next project in this thread is going to be a S&W 5 screw revolver that has a less than attractive finish. Because of all the nooks and crannies, curves and flats, this might take a while to prep with sandpaper. I'll post pics when it's ready to start. You can use something like naval jelly or vinegar to strip what's left of your bluing off, but I prefer to keep it on. It helps keep track of areas that aren't touched yet.

This is what it looks like so far. Lots of work to go, and you'll notice a lot of pitting that I may or may not be able to eliminate. The main thing is to go slow, and use hard backing materials that match the contours. That way your edges stay sharp, you won't get a wavy finish.
Go slow. Your prep work will directly affect your final finish.
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Do this work in direct sunlight if at all possible, or really bright lights. If you aren't using enough light, you will miss a lot of imperfections.

Polish with the side-plate attached. A common amateurs mistake is to polish them separately, and then when it's reassembled, there is a noticeable seam that runs around the plate where the two parts don't match up. Do the same with the crane installed in the receiver when you polish that side, and the front seam between the frame and the crane.

Andy

[mckenziedrums]

Now this one I'm watching like a hawk... My first attempt will be a rough Marlin .35 rem I got and then probably an Enfield... once I feel I'm comfortable with the process I'll bring out the Manurhin revolver but I can't mess that one up!

[Fla9-40]

Sorry had to delete first post....
================================================== =
I just this week completed my first project with Andy's Rust Blue. This is an old 22lr revolver that my dad had for as long as I can remember (I'm 59) and I got it when he past away in '97.

I can NEVER remember him cleaning, much less shooting this thing. Here are a few before and after pics. Camera work is not to good with my cell phone, I apologize up front.

Before:
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After some prep work...


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After First coat...

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After Four Coats...

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[Fla9-40]

Some more of the finished product....

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[andremajic]

Excellent work! It only took a tiny bit of that solution to blue the pistol, didn't it?

[Fla9-40]

Thanks! It was lots easier then I thought!

Yes sir, very little at all!

Thanks again Andy!

[andremajic]

Here's the progress on the M&P 1905 five screw S&W.

The tricky part is sanding out the pitting, without lowering the roll stamped lettering. This can be accomplished mainly by leaving the lettering alone and going around the periphery of it and eliminating as many pits as possible with a backed sanding block. There is a bit of artistic touch that can be used to hide imperfections, such as using a different grit of finish to distract the eye. If you have lots of pitting that cannot be eliminated, you don't want to bring the gun to a high polish, because the pits would stand out like a sore thumb.

Keep your sanding directions in the same direction as the factory finish. If you have to remove a lot of material, you could change the direction to keep the finish even, then go back to the original direction again. This will help with any "rocking" on flats that you might be doing unconsciously, which can lead to an uneven finish.

You can do the "shoe shine" with sandpaper on the barrel, but be aware that this can easily lead to waves and an uneven end result. If you do the "shoe shine" method of sanding, do a little sanding lengthwise on the barrel like "draw filing" to even it out. Make sure that at the end, all the directions of the sanding are pointing the same direction, if at all possible.

The S&W logo is especially shallow, try to leave it alone as much as you can.

For all the nooks and crannies that you can't possibly touch except with short stroking, especially concave curves, there is a product called cratex abrasive that is a rubberized abrasive in different grits. They come in all sorts of different shapes, grits and sizes and can help a lot. I still wouldn't recommend using them with a dremel. Polish by hand. Slow and steady wins the race, eh?

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A little progress with 350 grit and a backing block. Don't rush the job.

Andy

[mckenziedrums]

So Andy... I'm going to get around to trying this myself but... any photos of what it looks like on a highly polished part? I'm talking sanding it up to 2k grit and hitting it with the buffing wheel prior to bluing... I'd imagine you'd end up with a nice shiny blue when you're done though I'm not sure how much the 0000 steel wool would knock back. Guessing denim or 2k paper would be better for that.

[waksupi]

So Andy... I'm going to get around to trying this myself but... any photos of what it looks like on a highly polished part? I'm talking sanding it up to 2k grit and hitting it with the buffing wheel prior to bluing... I'd imagine you'd end up with a nice shiny blue when you're done though I'm not sure how much the 0000 steel wool would knock back. Guessing denim or 2k paper would be better for that.

That is too fine. You need to leave tooth to the steel. 320 is about the cut off for a quality bluing job. The best finish towards shiny will be accomplished by finishing between coats and at the end with a stainless carding/polishing wheel from Brownells.

[mckenziedrums]

That is too fine. You need to leave tooth to the steel. 320 is about the cut off for a quality bluing job. The best finish towards shiny will be accomplished by finishing between coats and at the end with a stainless carding/polishing wheel from Brownells.

Got it... final polish at the end. I do a lot of finishing work but never played with bluing before. My assumption, apparently incorrect, was that since this is a chemical finish that provides its own bite you'd want the high polish prior to applying it and it would etch itself in. I'll certainly have to play around a bit. Spraying a finish and getting a mirror gloss I can do but this will be a new medium for me entirely.

[andremajic]

waksupi is correct. 350 is about the limit of what you want to polish, otherwise you're wasting time. You can use a brown paper grocery bag or those rough brown paper towels to polish between coats. They are the equivalent of 1-2000 grit sandpaper.

I would not recommend using a buffing wheel or anything powered. It's too easy to dish out your flat surfaces using powered abrasives.

There is another technique I've been playing around with for small parts. Get a super fine polish on a screw head by spinning it in a drill chuck with sandpaper. Then heat it up fast with a propane torch just hot enough to make it sizzle, then dunk the entire head into a small glass container holding the rust bluing solution. Repeat this about 20-30 times. You can get a beautiful blue/black on those parts without letting it rust overnight, but I don't have the technique down well enough to recommend it yet.

Feel free to experiment with small stuff like screw heads, if you like.
(This is not flame bluing, just in case you were thinking that.)

If you were to do an entire gun that way, it would probably involve heating it up in an oven, then taking it out and swabbing it really fast with a sopping wet sponge or cotton swab. Another drawback this technique would have is you'd go thru a bottle really fast as it would evaporate a lot of your solution doing it this way.

[andremajic]

So Andy... I'm going to get around to trying this myself but... any photos of what it looks like on a highly polished part? I'm talking sanding it up to 2k grit and hitting it with the buffing wheel prior to bluing... I'd imagine you'd end up with a nice shiny blue when you're done though I'm not sure how much the 0000 steel wool would knock back. Guessing denim or 2k paper would be better for that.

I'll take a pic of the prepped revolvers side plate when it's ready.

What you want is a hazy reflective surface. You should be able to see basic stuff being reflected back, but it shouldn't look like your bathroom mirror.

[mckenziedrums]

Understood... not much different than prep work I do for other finishes that I spray on then. Anything smoother than 320-400 is just wasted effort and more headache than it's worth. I wouldn't use powered tools for anything other than buffing. I'm picking up my project rifle this evening that will be the first actual firearm I test this out on. Full realize a rifle is a lot more area to prep but less fine details than a revolver and if I screw it up I'll paint the sucker and sell it as a hunting rifle. :) Thanks for all the information!

[andremajic]

Here's an updated pic of the revolver: (Might need to dust out the computer case soon!)
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You see how it's reflective, but not like a mirror? This is the type of finish you should be getting. I still have a lot of little inclusions and pits to eliminate but it's coming along nicely!

Don't rush your job. Everything worth doing is worth taking the time to do well. You'll spend double the time fixing a job that you rush through and do half-assed and have to stare at your work every time you take it to the range. Enough said.

Andy

[oldred]

I have really enjoyed this thread and have been tempted to add my input but the info has been such that it was best left alone, thanks for the effort and the EXCELLENT info!

I would like to say that the parts about prep has been spot on, prep will not only "make or break" a good job it can and all too often does ruin not only the job but the gun itself! I have seen several guns absolutely destroyed (appearance) by ham-handed preparation and the end result was a finish that was actually worse than what they had when they started. The one that has gotten me to comment now was one that I saw just a few days ago, this was a pitiful looking model 97 Winchester Trench gun that had been stolen and with the thief thinking he had been seen leaving the house he had buried this fine old shotgun under some leaves beside the road. He was right, he had been seen and was caught the next day but it was another 24 hours or so before he fessed up and told where the gun(s) were hidden. After about 48 hours under those damp leaves the gun(s) had a light coat of surface rusting, I looked at that shotgun and told the owner I could see only light surface rusting that should clean up with nothing more than steel wool and maybe a light polishing and quoted him a price to do this and to hot blue the gun. Here is where things went sour, he decided he would just do the job himself and ordered some Oxpho-Blue from Brownells and then he set about sanding off the rust. When he brought it by a few days ago to show me the job he had done I could clearly see every single spot where the rust had been even slighted pitted, I saw this gun before he worked on it and I know there was no pitting that would not have cleaned up but had made the usual mistake of concentrating directly on the rust spots thus leaving "dips" or low spots that could easily be seen even through that somewhat dull cold blue finish. That wasn't the worst of it, all of the corners/edges were rounded off where he had just sanded over the entire gun without regard to these very critical areas probably with a soft sanding block or just by palming the paper. Previously crisp stampings were now "soft" and had that all too common smeared appearance that is the hallmark of an amateur prep job, even he could see that something wasn't quite right but he thought he could get me to hot tank it and fix the problem! There simply is no way to fix this kind of error, once that metal is gone there is no practical way of repairing it short of a VERY expensive professional restoration usually reserved for very special firearms.


Prep is THE most important step, heck it's 90% or more of the entire rebluing job, but it seems to be the least covered in these types of discussions usually getting only casual mention -if even that. The well said warning at the beginning of this thread about using power sanding belts/tools is good advice indeed! In fact avoid using power tools as much as possible and this usually means only for buffing to high gloss if a shiny finish is desired, unless a high gloss hot blue surface is the goal I see no need for power tools at all as these can ruin a gun PDQ!

The things to avoid are,

DON'T dwell on a small area, concentrating on a rust pit or small area of pitting will result in an uneven surface with dished out shallow areas that will stand out like the proverbial "sore thumb" after the job is finished. The proper way to do this is to block polish the entire area as much as possible and resist the temptation to even lightly concentrate on any one pit or small area, NEVER "finger" a pit or small area by using the finger tips on the sandpaper. A dished out or shallow spot will look worse (much worse!) than a small pit left in the surface so sometimes it's necessary to leave a few pits rather than make things worse by trying to remove 100% of the surface damage, remember that pit is a spot where the metal is simply gone, it's not just a blemish it's a hole down into the metal and the entire area around the pit(s) must be removed to a depth equal to the bottom of the pit in order to eliminate it. Unless this can be spread out over a large area the result will be that ugly dished out appearance.

STAY AWAY FROM EDGES as much as is practical! Approach edges and corners with EXTREME caution and never allow sandpaper to go over a sharp edge or corner unless it is backed by a hard sanding block and that block is supported well back from that edge/corner! When sanding over an edge or corner the paper will have the tendency to "rollover" these edges as the support is lost from the block extending over the part, this is very difficult to control unless you pay CLOSE attention and it only takes a very few careless strokes to do serious damage! Of course it's not always possible to use a hard sanding block in tight areas or any uneven surface so in those cases use extreme care and polish only up to the edge trying not to go over, this is usually time consuming and the hardest part of the job but it's time and effort well spent.

STAY AWAY FROM LETTERING/STAMPINGS as much as is practical! If rust is in lettering/stampings it can be removed by using a pointed tool, I use a carbide scribe, then the area surrounding the lettering/stampings can be polished with the hard backed sandpaper but be careful here. If there is pitting in these areas of lettering/stampings then a decision will need to be made as to how much the depth of the lettering/stampings should be sacrificed vs any pitting, usually a compromise is made but a few light pits near lettering/stampings will not look nearly as bad as lettering that has been nearly sanded away.


BE CAREFUL WITH THAT BUFFER! If a high gloss finish is the goal (this doesn't apply to rust blue) then buffing is the last step and here too disaster lurks! It's surprising to some folks just how fast even a buffer with those soft wheels can round off edges and cause lettering/stampings to smear so just as with polishing with sandpaper be EXTREMELY careful when buffing near edges/corners or other delicate areas.


All of the above has been assuming that some rust has to be dealt with but it's just as important even if there's not a speck of rust on the gun, above all else maintain those crisp edges/corners/lettering! I have seen several guns ruined, or at least noticeably damaged, by rounded off edges and corners even when the intent was just to restore areas of worn bluing.



Not trying to highjack this thread and the OP is to be commended for his efforts and the excellent information he has so kindly provided. It's just that so many otherwise nice firearms have serious refinish flaws that need not have happened and while there is much discussion to be found on the various types of bluing available to the home refinisher, and the application of these processes, all too often the most important step is hardly mentioned if at all. Prep is the key to a nice finish, the prep is actually the job itself and is what people see in the finial product while the actual blued surface is just the icing on the cake!

[andremajic]

Thanks Oldred! Not a hijack at all. It helps when another person reiterates some points and puts it into real life experiences he's had as well.

Another way to save a badly pitted rifle or pistol:

You don't have to sand all the pits out!!!

If you are lucky enough to know a good gun engraver or can farm it out to a professional, not only can they integrate the pitting into their engraving, but if it is tastefully done, the engraving will improve the overall value of your previous eyesores.

The magic that can be done on a pitted old firearm by a good engraver. Beautiful!

[andremajic]

Just finished a rust blue on this Machete today. I didn't take before pics, but it had rust and pitting on the metal. Since this is going to be used on a daily basis, I just roughed it up with an abrasive scouring pad and cleaned with dishwasher detergent.

Only took 3 applications of rust blue to get this finish. Finished it with motorcycle chain wax, which is really hard to rub off.

He was very happy with how it turned out. I got a bayonet that I'm working on at the moment, I'll post pics when it's done as well. These were freebies to local business owners so they'd get the word out and help sell my rust blue formula.

You don't have to use this on just firearms guys. Think about using this on old rusty things in your garage as well. It's cheap practice and makes them look nice.

Total time invested was about 15-20 minutes of work, spread out over a 3 day period.

139839

I might also be doing this to my reloading die sets as well. I think it would look nice to have black dies accented with brass rings...

UPDATE: Here is a bayonet I just finished today.
140141
It had rust on the blade, and the tip was chipped. It's sharp now and looks much better!

Only took 2 treatment sessions to get that color!
I didn't touch the sheath, so you can guess what the original condition of the blade by looking at that!

Andy

[andremajic]

This is a pic of a Vietnam era pilots machete that I finished today. The blade guard was so rusty and pitted that I figured paint would be the only option. NOPE. Cleaned up nice!

It folds like a pocket knife and the blade guard is so you don't cut yourself on what's left of the protruding blade.

Never saw one of these before.

140146
It took 3 sessions of coating, rusting, and carding before it got to how it looks now. There were some pits in the metal, but the owner didn't want any metal taken off, just wanted to halt the rust and make it black again. I think it looks pretty good now. There's oil in the nooks and crannies and it doesn't sound like it's full of grit when the blade opens or closes.

You don't have to use this bluing solution for just firearms people!

Andy

[Just Duke]

Great job!

[andremajic]

Great job!

Thanks for the compliment! I got to get my butt in gear and start on that pistol again, so that we can get some finished pictures. Trying not to rush the job though.

Andy

[Johnny_V]

Trying not to rush the job though.

Andy

Andy,

Remember, it's "slow" rust blue. ;-)

[andremajic]

Andy,

Remember, it's "slow" rust blue. ;-)

Very true, and should be repeated to oneself as often as needed to slow down. Don't rush it, people!

[FWest]

A test for me before doing something of value. This is one of the first things I made on my lathe and mini mill.

A clamptite tool. Made from mild steel, 3 coats of Andy's Rust Blue.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/frankwest/IMG_20150602_175319_zpsedrge9dr.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/frankwest/media/IMG_20150602_175319_zpsedrge9dr.jpg.html)

[andremajic]

I'll have to admit I had to google clamptite to figure out what it did. Slick! Now I need to make one for myself.

Did you go off plans, or just reverse engineer it by looking at one? I'm guessing you have use of a mill to create the slots that go thru the body?

Good job on the bluing. It didn't use up hardly any bluing solution to complete it, did it? A little goes a long ways.

Andy

[FWest]

I'll have to admit I had to google clamptite to figure out what it did. Slick! Now I need to make one for myself.

Did you go off plans, or just reverse engineer it by looking at one?

Good job on the bluing.

I saw a few pictures on a hobby message board. A gent was making them and wooden boxes for gifts. The boxes were very nice and the tools were perfect. So basically just tried to copy the tool, no way I could have made the boxes.

I am not a machinist just a hobbyist.

You were not kidding when you said your bluing was easy. Great product.

Thanks

[BAGTIC]

136443"As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron."
H.L. Mencken

That day has already come.

You will want to clean all traces of oil/wax/grease off of the part. The only problem I've ever had rust bluing a part was a rifle treated with silicone. That stuff is a nightmare to remove!

I use regular ol' dishwasher detergent to degrease my parts. It has a high alkalinity and is made to be aggressive on grease. Rinse with plenty of hot water. Try to handle the part with bare hands as little as possible. Using gloves is recommended, but not absolutely necessary. (Did I mention that this process is extremely forgiving?

To be continued...stand by...[/QUOTE]

[andremajic]

Here's a bayonet for a M1 Garand. A previous owner had used an angle grinder on it and really boogered up the blade, so it took a lot of work draw filing and sanding to get most of the gouges out and make it retain it's shape it should be in.Some of the grinding marks were too deep and I had to leave them alone, otherwise the blade would be too thin.

This is what it looks like after an application of my rust blue, before it is set out to rust. There is a brown almost coppery color to it, which shows that I have good even coverage.

141639

Once this is converted black oxide, the gouges that are left on it will be much less noticeable.

Ok, after the first 24 hours, the blade didn't have enough of a velvety coating of rust on it, so I coated it with more rust blue without boiling. It looks like this:
141780
I let it sit another 24 hours, and boiled it in distilled water.

this is what it looks like after carding and oiling. (2 treatments) One boiling.
It's been coated with a light machine oil.
141781

Looks very nice now. Much more presentable. If it's sunny tomorrow, I'll be able to take a much brighter picture.

Andy

[Stork]

Ok, I kind of finished 2 projects with the bluing. First was a used Ruger MKII that the prior owner put a clamp style scope base on & scratched the bluing.

Initial stage:

142879

Sanded down:
142880142880

First coat:
142881
Final bluing before heat & dunk into used engine oil & wd40 mix:
142882

And I drilled & tapped it so I can put a proper Weigand base on it.


Next up was the Caspian:
First coat:
142884

I ran into some issues after about 3 coats. The cloth I was using wasn't rough enough to take it down, and after about 8 coats it looked like this after the final dunk in oil/wd40.

142885

So I called Andy & we visited a couple times on what was going wrong. I was pleased with the frame but the slide had those brown streaks all over.

I switched to using 0000 steel wool for the carding, took the existing bluing off the slide, and started over with the slide only. That worked a lot better.

Here's the temporary end result. I still have just a bit of brown tinge at the rear of the slide, but I'm going to Camp Perry for the national matches and don't want to correct it and run out of time.

Here's the current final stage:
142886142887

I'll redo the slide again when I get back, but it looks a lot better than when it was in the white and then I'll have more time.

Al

[andremajic]

Nice work Stork!

Seriously guys, if you're stuck on something, my phone number is printed on the front of the bottle. Don't hesitate to call.

Andy

[sparky45]

I finally got around to using the Rust Blue solution and while the results are good, I should have continued the process. I took down my LCT to rebuild it with all new parts (a used press I acquired the first of the year) and decided to re-blue the steel columns and the steel handle. I didn't get any before pics, but there was some rust on most of the steel parts.
First pic is of the re-blued parts:
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/glynnm1945/LCTd_zpsxw2gi1ps.jpg (http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/glynnm1945/media/LCTd_zpsxw2gi1ps.jpg.html)


Second pic is of the LCT and the un-assembled parts :
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/glynnm1945/LCTc_zps5zpscs8v.jpg (http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/glynnm1945/media/LCTc_zps5zpscs8v.jpg.html)


Third pic shows start or re-assembly:
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/glynnm1945/LCTb_zpspftwfrmm.jpg (http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/glynnm1945/media/LCTb_zpspftwfrmm.jpg.html)


Fourth pic shows assembled steel parts:
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/glynnm1945/LCT_zps8tgr21qi.jpg (http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/glynnm1945/media/LCT_zps8tgr21qi.jpg.html)


It's been a "longer than I anticipated" process but the results are good.

[andremajic]

Looks very nice! I'd be happy with a press that looks like that. Thank you for sharing!

[andremajic]

I finished prepping the S&W and coated it with a layer of rust blue.
146937146938

Now the revolver and cylinder is hanging up in the bathroom to rust.
146939146941

The cylinder/yoke/crane combination will be disassembled and cleaned after boiling and carding. Right now, it makes a good way to handle the cylinder without touching it. You could just totally disassemble it and use a dowel to hold it with, but I prefer this way.

Check back for updates...

[andremajic]

147223

Finished the smith and wesson. I think it looks nice for over 100 years old eh?

It took 4 coats and rusting sessions for it to get to where I was happy with it.

I didn't blue the trigger or hammer, since these are case hardened parts. I did clean them up with steel wool. The only real pain with doing revolvers is all the contours and tight spaces, especially the internals behind the plate.

TIP:
I found that a pair of curved needlenosed hemostats gripping a small ball of 0000 steel wool works well to get into small tight areas for carding off the loose rust.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the revolver and since it was a great shooter with almost zero cylinder endshake and tight tolerances. I figured it should look as good as it shoots!

Andy

[Magana559]

I got mine on friday, going to give it a go on a shotgun barrel I have laying around. Give me a few weeks to get around to it as I have lots going on at the moment.

[andremajic]

I got mine on friday, going to give it a go on a shotgun barrel I have laying around. Give me a few weeks to get around to it as I have lots going on at the moment.

Sounds good. Keep us updated on your progress and post pics!

Andy

[357Wheelgunner]

Great tutorial! Very similar to the method I learned from an old, when I was young, gunsmith. However, not having WD40, yes, it was a long time ago, his final step was more traditional. He heated the part up "till was 'bout to hot to hold" to open up the pores in the wood, and drive out any residual moisture, and rubbed it down good with boiled linseed oil. When it had cooled to room temperature the excess oil was removed with a soft cloth and the whole paper buffed with a soft cotton cloth. The linseed oil adds an extra luster and depth to the blue and an additional layer of protection.

YMMV
WHEELGUNNER

[jcren]

Andy's is awsome stuff and easy to use. This was my first attempt and finished with linseed.
175784

[sparky45]

Looks a lot like my Rem 550-1; nicely done.

[jcren]

Thank you! She was my grandfather's and I got her 27 years ago.

[waksupi]

I see Andy hasn't been on the board for a few months, but I would sure like to see his bluing formula offered again. Excellent stuff.

[Johnny_V]

Always used to use Pilkington's Rust Blue in the past, but thought I would give Andy's formula a chance and am glad I did. Although time consuming (as is any rust blue), the results were just as good as, if not better than Pilkington's.

Here's a picture of a model 12, 20ga that I received as a basket case that someone had welded on the receiver, the adjusting sleeve for the barrel was incorrect, and was missing the butt stock. Had to make a new adjusting sleeve, clean up the welded section of the receiver and re-blued (using Andy's formula), and refinish the wood (butt stock was from Boyd's, but finished to match the forearm). I think it turned out rather nice.

225717

Here's a 1954 vintage Tokerav that was in such bad shape that I picked it up for a song. The pistol was rusty and the grips would not stay in place. Cleaned up the metal and re-blued (using Andy's formula), and modified a new set of grips that were secured by a screw rather than the internal cam.

225718

Andy's formula get a thumbs up and one big "Atta boy" from me.