tokarev t-33 7.62x25 mm

[milltownhunter]

are they any good?

[Tackleberry41]

Good as any other. There are a few variations of them, Russian, Romanian, Yugoslav, Chinese. Never had any issues out of the one I have, just ammo doesnt tend to be easy to find. Most stores dont see not alot of vendors at the gun show will have it. The surplus stuff all dried up. But brass is easy to get from Starline.

[Outpost75]

Not safe to carry with chamber loaded. Add-on safety needed for importation is questionable.

In that caliber I prefer the CZ52.

Accurate 31-87T bullet sized .311 start with 5.0 up to max. 5.5 grains of Bullseye until cycling is reliable.

[reed1911]

Good guns. Inexpensive and fun to shoot. They are not the most accurate pistols in the world, or to be precise, they are not the easiest pistols to shoot accurately. POI is accurate, but adjusting via 'Ky windage' is not my preference. We have a lot of guys that use them for truck guns.

[justashooter]

absolutely deadly on your average chronograph. don't ask how I know.

[bouncer50]

I have 5 of them what i seen about them. Most of them the bores slug out 310 and larger. Most military ammo the bullet is 307-308 dia. Accurate is only fair with military ammo. Reload with 311 size bullets and then they get accurate. From pie plate groups to a half pie plate groups.

[dubber123]

I only have 1 Tokarev, and it is in 9mm. The sights are awful, and the trigger worse. A little time on the mill, and the sights are good, and the trigger went from almost 11 pounds, to about 4. It is the most accurate 9mm I own. I could only shoot 20 yds. in the yard this winter, but got a average of 1.5" or less for a full mag. Fun guns to "tinker" on.

[GhostHawk]

Like Outpost I have a CZ-52 which is fun if not terribly accurate.

I have been making brass from .223 blanks (GI issue) which a friend gave me.

At 10 yards I can keep them all on the target. The same distance my SA .45 ACP puts them all in a pop can sized group.
So I shoot the 1911 a lot and the CZ a little.

[Outpost75]

My CZ with PPU ball will stay on a 12" gong at 100 yards off sandbags, and my cast loads shoot 2-1/2" 8-shot groups at 25 yards. Good for what it is.

[Tackleberry41]

I dont guess anybody ever considered making some sort of drop in inertial firing pin so they would be safer?

[Lonegun1894]

I used to have a Polish one made in 1954. Good little gun with a really annoying little habit. Mine would shoot a 6-7" group at 100yds off a rest on demand, but for some reason I could never figure out, the last round out of each magazine would be 5-6 FEET off target in any random direction. I tried to find a pattern, but was unable to, and finally someone made me an offer I just couldn't refuse. I told him about the "quirk" it had, and he wanted it anyway. I still see him at the range trying to figure that annoying habit out now and then and now he cussed it while I laugh, instead of the other way around like it used to be with him telling me I just can't shoot. Bad thing is, I'd buy it back to take another crack at it. I mean, still have the dies so...

Having said the above... I tried carrying it and never could grow to trust the caliber for defense, so won't recommend it to anyone else for that reason only, but my carry calibers are .357 Mag, .40 S&W, .44 Mag, .45 ACP, and .45 Colt, so you see a pattern. I don't even trust a 9mm. Accuracy (except for the quirk) was good, and it was a good little varmint pistol for coyote out to 75yds, but I never tried rabbit or squirrel with it, and didn't trust it to go after a hog at the time (even though I hunt hogs with a .22LR now--go figure). Great range toy and interesting if you like historical guns though.

[RG1911]

I have several, including a Russian that looks like it was used hard and put away wet in every war from WWII through Vietnam, a Polish from 1952, and a Yugo. As was mentioned, the bores all slug between .310-.312, so accuracy is iffy. Trigger pulls are generally bad.

Because I enjoy tilting at windmills, I took the Yugo and:

1. Eliminated the magazine safety (hate those)
2. With a bunch of work and Wolff springs, got the trigger pull down to an acceptable 4.5 pounds with reliable ignition.
3. Had a trigger shoe made to widen the trigger. I have some hand damage and the thin trigger was making it difficult to shoot more than about 16 rounds.
4. Had the barrel bored and a .308 liner installed. Bought a reamer and finished the chamber. It is a 1-in-10 twist, which is way too fast, but I couldn't find a slower twist liner.
5. Tightened up the slide-to-frame fit.

Accuracy has gone from where-did-that-one-go to acceptable, so long as you're not planning on using it for bullseye matches, and I can shoot all I want without the trigger crippling my trigger finger. My only remaining gripe about the TT-33 is that it tends to launch brass into the next state, so I always lose some cases. Fortunately, I have a fairly large supply for reloading.

I'm giving serious thought to making it a carry pistol. It's lightweight, thin, and the cartridge is way more than adequately powerful. Until the .357 came along, the Tokarev round was the hottest handgun cartridge around.

Cheers,
Richard

[Outpost75]

Richard RG1911,

your experiences parallel mine, which is why I no longer have a Tok, but kept my CZ52. I found the CZ very acceptable in terms of accuracy, with a decent trigger pull being easy to obtain, by simply swapping out and replacing some of the original parts with Harrington's replacements.

[9.3X62AL]

20+ years with the 7.62 x 25 Tokarev/30 Mauser in a C-96 "Broomhandle"--a Type 54 Chinese TT-30/33--and a CZ-52. I view all three as historical curiosities I can enjoy at the range, and have cautiously hunted small game and varmints in the field with all 3 pistols......mindful of their safety limitations, esp. that Tok. I agree that a reloader willing to match bullet dimensions to bore forms can extract small-game-capable accuracy from this caliber, though any such result in a C-96 is much like a successful second marriage......a triumph of effort and will over experience and expectations. All the while, you get regaled with malignant jocularity......things like "Where's your gas mask?" and "Al must be dating The Dragon Lady again". The CZ-52 has delivered some EXEMPLARY accuracy with bullets it likes......and can run 90 grain Hornady XTP HPs to 1600 FPS+ with the proper amount of AA-7 lodged behind it. (CZ-52 in good condition ONLY). Another great load for my CZ-52 uses Lyman #311419 (the 92 grain short version of #311316) atop 8.0 grains of AA-7 for almost 1500 FPS. Again, CZ-52 ONLY. I keep the Tokarev at or under 1400 FPS with 85-90 grain bullets, and load the C-96 to about 1150-1200 FPS to just get it running and only slightly more.

[dubber123]

I am wondering if any here have perused Clarks destruction data on the Tok Vs. Cz topic. He claims, (and has actually tested) this, and says that although the lockup of the Cz is stronger, the barrels will fail at a lower pressure than the Tokarev. In fact, I believe he blew up several Cz's, and they all fail at the same point in the barrel. I don't believe he ever succeeded in unglueing a Tokarev. They are stronger than they first appear.

[Tackleberry41]

From what I have read they weaken the barrel in the Cz cutting for the locking rollers. Not alot but enough that the Tok is a little stronger.

I run 7.62x25 in a 1911, with a 24lbs spring, ammo I wouldn't consider running in my Tok.

[RG1911]

I am wondering if any here have perused Clarks destruction data on the Tok Vs. Cz topic. He claims, (and has actually tested) this, and says that although the lockup of the Cz is stronger, the barrels will fail at a lower pressure than the Tokarev. In fact, I believe he blew up several Cz's, and they all fail at the same point in the barrel. I don't believe he ever succeeded in unglueing a Tokarev. They are stronger than they first appear.

I'm not sure if it was Clark's data, but I remember reading a few years ago that, compared to the CZ, the TT-33 was stronger than it looked. I haven't worried about having mine spontaneously disassemble.

Richard

[RG1911]

I run 7.62x25 in a 1911, with a 24lbs spring, ammo I wouldn't consider running in my Tok.

Sounds like a good combination. How did you do the modification?

Thank you,
Richard

[Outpost75]

Sounds like a good combination. How did you do the modification? Thank you,
Richard

A .38 Super slide, ejector and magazine with 7.62x25 barrel should do the trick fairly simply.

And you should be able to swap the gun readily back to .38 Super or 9x23!

[Tackleberry41]

It started out as a 40 S&W, got the slide cheap off somebody in a forum, in the white, no sight cuts or anything. Never could get it to work, jammed constantly. Saw a drop in barrel in 7.62x25, was concerned it might not be as reliable if it had a 9mm/38super slide and extractor. But extractor I used was 9mm/38 super/40/10mm. Haven't had an issue with it yet. I was a bit surprised it said to use a 17lbs spring for some reason. But saw that battering the frame, tried some springs in it. With full power loads, and 24lbs it only throws the brass about 10 ft, vs the next county as they usually do. Lighter loads just need to back off on the spring.

But factory ammo won't work in the mags, they have to be shortened just a little reduce the loads likewise. Was talking to a guy at a reloading place, he said he got factory ammo to work, but had to destroy a pile of mags to find one that could be modded to work, figure its way cheaper to just have a box of ammo marked (1911 only) tho I expect they would work in a regular Tok, they weren't beyond any normal load data I found. But would be back to my brass flying to the next county. Wish Wolff made much higher weight springs.

Will a 1911 spring work in a tok?

[dubber123]

From what I have read they weaken the barrel in the Cz cutting for the locking rollers. Not alot but enough that the Tok is a little stronger.

I run 7.62x25 in a 1911, with a 24lbs spring, ammo I wouldn't consider running in my Tok.

Clark will correct me if I am wrong, but the Cz's come unglued right at the roller cut outs. The Tokarevs do not have this issue. He has a 9mm Tokarev rechambered to 9x23, and runs some very hefty loads through it,( think .357 mag with 158's), and it keeps on ticking. Speculation is one thing, someone who has really pushed one until they come unhinged is another.

[eggwelder]

I used to have a Polish one made in 1954. Good little gun with a really annoying little habit. Mine would shoot a 6-7" group at 100yds off a rest on demand, but for some reason I could never figure out, the last round out of each magazine would be 5-6 FEET off target in any random direction. I tried to find a pattern, but was unable to, and finally someone made me an offer I just couldn't refuse. I told him about the "quirk" it had, and he wanted it anyway. I still see him at the range trying to figure that annoying habit out now and then and now he cussed it while I laugh, instead of the other way around like it used to be with him telling me I just can't shoot. Bad thing is, I'd buy it back to take another crack at it. I mean, still have the dies so...

Having said the above... I tried carrying it and never could grow to trust the caliber for defense, so won't recommend it to anyone else for that reason only, but my carry calibers are .357 Mag, .40 S&W, .44 Mag, .45 ACP, and .45 Colt, so you see a pattern. I don't even trust a 9mm. Accuracy (except for the quirk) was good, and it was a good little varmint pistol for coyote out to 75yds, but I never tried rabbit or squirrel with it, and didn't trust it to go after a hog at the time (even though I hunt hogs with a .22LR now--go figure). Great range toy and interesting if you like historical guns though.
just load one round less...

[Lonegun1894]

I wish it was that simple, and I tried that. It didn't matter if I loaded a full magazine, or used it as a single-shot, or anything in between. The last round was always a wild card. I thought it may have been something with the slide locking back on an empty magazine, but the bullet is long gone before the slide unlocks, so that shouldn't be a problem.

[Tackleberry41]

I looked at the Wolff site they only sell a factory weight Tokarev spring, is there a spring from another gun, heavier one I can buy? Compared a tok spring to some I have 1991 is to long, a browning HP was just a little short. Would a heavy BHP spring work in a tok?