358 Win cast loads

[comuaiki]

I an new to this forum and this is my first post. I have been reloadig for a few years now using jackted projectiles only. I am but a newborn to cast loading which is what brings me here. I reciently came accoss some .358 220g FNGC ww cast bullets on gunbroker at a good price which are prelubed. I have looked around quite a bit but really have not come accross any load data for this bullet in a 358 Win. I plan to use them in my Savage 99 for general shooting at paper but dont have a hardness tester so I dont know how hard they are.

Does anyone have any load data they can share for this bullet in this round. Since I also have a 35 Rem chambered in a Marlin 336 and a 35 Whelen AI built in a Savage action, load data fo these other two rounds using the same cast bulets would be appreciated. If anyone thinks these may serve another shooting purpose besides paper I am open to your experience.

Thanks...

[Artful]

First Welcome - Look around I think you'll find some useful information
2nd - can you give a better idea of the bullet you have?
3rd - can you share what powders you have on hand?

[Echo]

Those boolits should do well in either caliber. Have you miked them, as to their diameter? Eighteen 1/2 grs of 2400 work well for me in my Whelen, but it is standard, not AI. I would start with about 16 grs of 2400 and work up in 1/2 grain increments, for your 358W.

[Tatume]

Hodgdon starting load data for jacketed bullets and H4895 and IMR4895 work very well with cast bullets. The data are reliable and are pressure tested.

http://www.hodgdon.com/

Additionally H4895 data may be reduced considerably. I get best accuracy at 1800 fps and below, with acceptable accuracy up to 2250 fps. Information on reducing H4895 may be found at the following site.

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

[Nobade]

My 358 works great with 220gr. Ranch Dog bullets, using a wide variety of powders. If you have any 3031, that works well. Can't overpressure the 358 with it, but in my rifle it seems to shoot best at about 40 gr.

As Artful says, what powder do you have to work with?

-Nobade

[comuaiki]

Hello everyone and thank you for you responses. This will give me a starting point to get going. To answer some of the questions I was asked:

Here is a photo of the bullet I am plan to use
136508

The powders I have in the loading shelf
Accurate 2015
Hodgdon H110
Winchester 748
Accurate No. 9
IMR 4198
Hodgdon Lever
IMR 4350
IMR 4064
Hodgdon BL-C(2)
IMR Trail Boss
IMR 4320
IMR 7828
Alliant Reloader 15

The bullets Mik out to .359


So your recommendations are a good excuse for me to go out and add a few more powders to my stock. Does anyone know if these boolits would be good for game since they are made from Wheel Weights. I how no idea how hard they are and they may only be good for punching holes in paper. This all new to me.

[303Guy]

Seems to me you have all the powders you need already. And welcome aboard! :drinks:

I have an interest in the 357. I don't have one but would love a 357/303 which I consider to be a near ideal calibre for cast with the 308/303 size case.

[Nobade]

Well, a lot of those powders should work well in the 358. If it were me, I'd use a full case of IMR4064 and see how that ran. Should be about 30,000 psi and 2050 fps or so, so plenty safe and about the right speed for cast to shoot well.

Good to see another poster from NM here. Lots of beautiful country where you are and plenty of elk to use that 358 on!

-Nobade

[comuaiki]

Nobade, I think I will try the IMR4064 since I have quite a bit of it layin arround. So you think if I fill the 358 win case full their should be no signs of over pressure. My lee reloading manual shows a 200gn jacked bullet with a max charge will give 46200 PSI, so would a heaver bullet not have more pressure. I am but a novice at this cast stuff but this sounds fun to learn all this new stuff.

Yeah, it sure is beautful here and I love it. See elk regulary and hopefuly I can use my 358 win this year if I draw a hunt otherwise punching paper is still satisfing for me.

[KLR]

If you extrapolate the data from here http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ they give a max charge of 4064 for a 220gr jacketed bullet @ 47 grains. (If I did my math correctly.)

I'm using 35 gr of IMR3031 with a 220gr RanchDog for 1900 fps out of a 20" barrel. That's all the recoil I want for punching paper.

I think your bullet will be fine for hunting. Last year I used a 216gr RCBS clone bullet that looked similiar to yours and was cast from coww. I was pushing it at 1825 fps for a reduced blast hunting load. Longest shot was 250 yds and the deer ran about 40 yds. Also had one I hit in the lungs at 80 yds. It ran a little over 100 yds before giving up. So if you aim for the shoulder and load it hot, your coww bullet should work fine.

[Nobade]

Heavier bullet will take up more room in the case and allow a smaller powder charge. I doubt you will be able to get more than about 42 grains in the case. Start a bit lower and work up of course, but it will be plenty safe with that powder. You mentioned you have 748 - that works great in the 358 as well, but you can almost overload a 358 with it so it's a little harder to deal with. Gives a bit more power though.

-Nobade

[MT Chambers]

The best bullet that I have tested in .35s is the Saeco 245 gr fpgc, and hits like a ton of bricks, although the bullet in the pic. looks good.

[comuaiki]

Wow, thats lot of great info. When I look at the data you provided and compare it to the hodgdon loading data on their site there is no direct correlation and the wieb site data is for jacked bullets.

Can you directly substitute cast bullets for the data on their site or how does one take hodgdon data and use it for cast. I realize this is probably something you learn and devlope with experience but for newbies like me there what guidance do you suggest for devloping a starting load?

Thanks...

[Nobade]

Anything they list for jacketed is going to be safe with an equal weight cast bullet. It might not shoot accurately, might lead the bore, but won't blow up your gun. It's all just practice and learning what combinations work well and what don't. On a plus note, the 358 is really easy to work with using cast, and most rifles can fire them at full rated pressure with pretty good effect - unlike many other calibers.

-Nobade

[Tatume]

Hodgdon starting load data for jacketed bullets and H4895 and IMR4895 work very well with cast bullets. The data are reliable and are pressure tested.

http://www.hodgdon.com/

Additionally H4895 data may be reduced considerably. I get best accuracy at 1800 fps and below, with acceptable accuracy up to 2250 fps. Information on reducing H4895 may be found at the following site.

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

My personal experience with the 358 Winchester, RCBS 35-200-FN, and H4895 (as well as IMR4895), is that loads from 1600 - 1800 fps are exceptionally accurate and do not leave behind any lead. From 1800 - 2250 fps accuracy is very good, and leading is moderate and controllable. For hunting purposes leading is insignificant.

[lastborn]

Where did ya'll get the Ranch Dog 220 boolit mold in the above post, by Nobade and others? Is this a brand new mold? Where do you get one?
Thanks

[Nobade]

See my PM. NOE makes them.

I just looked on their web site and couldn't find it. Not sure if they are discontinued or just not listed, might have to give them a call to see.

-Nobade

[KLR]

Oops...it's a 230gr bullet. Sorry.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=1056

[Nobade]

There it is! How did you find that?

Oh, I see - I thought there were only 5 pages! They just keep on going.

GREAT 358 boolit, at any rate.

-Nobade

[comuaiki]

Ok, today I made my first attempt to load up a few rounds using the bootits i pictured above and 38gn of 4064. It turns out the LEE dies I am using wont seat them and from what I can tell the seating punch wont contact the cast bullet so the bullet got stuck inside the die. I had to dissamble the die and tap out the bullet to remove it.

Does any one have any suggestion how to seat the boolits into the case without this occuring again?

[KLR]

Not sure about the Lee dies you have, but some of my dies have a seating plug that can be flipped. One side is for spire point bullets and the other for flat point. Take your die apart again and see if you have a seating plug like that that can be reversed.

[comuaiki]

I just took apart my dies and it looks like that will work. If I get some time tomorrow evening I will load up a few and see it does.

Thanks...

[wmitty]

Don't get discouraged if the boolits are not accurate; it may be that the wheelweight alloy wasn't water dropped or heat treated. If it wasn't, you may be driving the alloy too fast for the hardness in it's current form. If it is indeed wheelweight alloy, you can remove the lube and heat treat the boolits if they are too soft.

[Tatume]

Air-cooled wheel weight metal is plenty hard for up to 2250 fps muzzle velocity.

[lastborn]

Do any of you know what mold that is for the boolits Comuaiki posted above?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136508&d=1428725830&thumb=1

[waksupi]

Do any of you know what mold that is for the boolits Comuaiki posted above?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136508&d=1428725830&thumb=1
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=1056

[lastborn]

I may be wrong, but the meplat on the Noe looks wider and has a little thin drive band next to the gas check ?

[Jevyod]

Man that 230 grain from NOE looks like a sweet mold!!! I am thinking that with a alloy of 5:1 COWW to linotype and driven to 2200 Fps those boolits in my 358 Winchester would take any North American game animal with authority!!!!

[JesterGrin_1]

Let me cover a few things. First off if you do a search here on the forum you will find not just a few but many pages devoted to the .358 Winchester as it has proven to not only be a very accurate round but also a great cast bullet round capable of hunting from small game up to Moose and Elk up to 250-300 yards depending on load. I would however not use it on Big Bear such as the Brown or Grizzly. Will it work I am sure it would but if the Bear got it in its mind that if it got a hold of you it would cure its ills it may not end well.

As for particulars. You need to slug your bore to make sure that the size of the bullets you have now will work correctly as you wish to have .001-.002 over boar.

As for powders as mentioned you currently have some good powders that should work very well with the .358 Winchester.

The Lee dies though you may have problems with as they are designed expressly for jacketed bullets. But one can hone out the neck sizing section of the Lee dies so as not to down size the cast bullet during loading. I wish I could tell you how this is done but I am sure a search will turn up some good information on the subject. But because of this reason I use RCBS dies.

For expanding and belling the case mouth you can use a .38Sp/.357 Magnum die or there are several other ways of doing this. You can get a Lyman M die expressly designed for opening the case mouth correctly for cast bullets along with belling the case mouth or you could use a set of needle nose pliers of which to leave them closed and put the point into the case and gently twist them a bit inside of the case to generate a bell on the case mouth just large enough as to not shave lead when seating the cast bullet into the case. There are many ways to skin a cat from free to costing some money lol.

I use the Lyman M Die.

If you have questions please feel free to ask them as mentioned the .358 Winchester is probably one of the most beloved rounds in Cast Boolit rifle shooting. Also do not forget the search function.

Have a Great Day.

[waksupi]

Man that 230 grain from NOE looks like a sweet mold!!! I am thinking that with a alloy of 5:1 COWW to linotype and driven to 2200 Fps those boolits in my 358 Winchester would take any North American game animal with authority!!!!


No need for the linotype.

[GooseGestapo]

I use either 39.0gr of BLC2 or 34.5gr H4895.
I use a modified .357mag RCBS decapper/expander to flare cases. (Lee universal expander will doe likewise). You MUST flare the case necks to seat "boolits".

My Marlin M336 and BLR .358win use exact same loads.
I much prefer the .35Rem Marlin due to MUCH better trigger.
Marlin is more accurate. Prefers BLC2. BLR prefers H4895.
These loads run ~2,000fps and are accurate hunting loads.

I use Lee dies with both. Not quite sure what you're doing wrong.
i don't use jktd in the Marlin. Use Hornady 200gr PtSpt in BLR.

BTW; added: I cast my own with RCBS 200gr FNGC. Mine cast to 220gr. .size to .360" for the .35Rem.

[Jevyod]

No need for the linotype.

Why would that be? I always thought I would need a bit harder lead, and since I powdercoat, quenching or heat treating will not work. I have 140 lbs of lino anyway!

[Camba]

I had been testing my Browning BLR-81 in .358 Win and the picture below shows my best load using the RCBS 357-180-SIL mold (drops at 192 grains) and Blue Dot powder (see components listed in the picture). This target is at 50 yards. It is a 5-shot group. Last shot was rushed and I was getting "buck fever" after seeing 4 out of 5 in a ragged hole. So, I called the last one a flier.

Camba
137510

[waksupi]

Why would that be? I always thought I would need a bit harder lead, and since I powdercoat, quenching or heat treating will not work. I have 140 lbs of lino anyway!

I've not followed the powder coat craze, so am not up on the problems with it. However, I've shot deer, elk, bear and bison with WW boolits, hardened to 24 Bn approximately. Works fine.

[MBTcustom]

I've not followed the powder coat craze, so am not up on the problems with it. However, I've shot deer, elk, bear and bison with WW boolits, hardened to 24 Bn approximately. Works fine.

This is the truth. Also, I have PCed WQed bullets and experienced no loss of hardness. (mind you, this was one test on a 35 caliber bullet).
Also, PC has not really blown my skirt up in regards to 358 Winchester. They look real cool, but I can trump PC accuracy performance every time at 2000fps or greater in my 358s.
Best to leave the PC to the 45-70 and use an alloy that is balanced in tin and antimony. My personal favorite is COWW + 2.5%ish tin to make 95.6/2.2/2.2. Air cooled, it's 14BHN and WQed it runs 25-27.
For 358 Winchester, I run a WQed bullet of said alloy, about 2200FPS and change.

[Smoke4320]

137536137537
first target has all the load data and chrono results
second target is 200 yds 4 shots on left side then I adjusted sights for final center shot

This was done with Powder coated 98/2 Alloy... 98% clip on wheel weights and 2% Tin... No water dropping or any other additional hardening ( other than waiting a week after casting )
third target again just confirms the groupings

[Camba]

Nice shooting Smoke4320!

[comuaiki]

Ok, so I contacted Lee Reloading and they suggested I need a custom seating Punch for my dies and can make one. All I need to do is ship them a couple of my cast boolits with a few dollars and they can make on for me. Since most cast boolits are generally flat nose for this cartridge I am hoping the Punch will generally work for any cast boolit I try to reload.

Anyone have any thoughts...

I wish to than everyone who has posted as you have been most helpful.

[Artful]

If you just want to make it a flat nose - I'd put some epoxy into the nose of your seating punch to level it - instant flat nose.

[dragon813gt]

If you just want to make it a flat nose - I'd put some epoxy into the nose of your seating punch to level it - instant flat nose.

I had to do this w/ a set of 32 H&R dies. It kept damaging the noses.