Fave 45/70, moderate velocity diy lube?

[huntinlever]

Guys, pulling together everything for casting for my 45/70. Turning now to lube, which I'd like to make. I'm not a tinkerer - my aim is to develop one load that will cover elk and northern, larger whitetail out to 200 yards, with my 45/70 1895 guide gun. I've the 425 grain gc from Accurate coming, pushing it to about 1600 fps, gas-checked, and everything is falling into place.

So, among the lube recipes here and elsewhere, what's your fave for your big bore pushed to 1600, or equivalent? So far I've looked at both Ben's Red (and have the stuff for it) and Blue, and MML. And learning on an ongoing basis, of course.

I'll likely be lubing in an RCBS. I do know I won't be using LLA/tumble lubing. Powder coating is the next learning area.

Many thanks, all.

[runfiverun]

I use 45/45/10 lube in my 45-70 but I also use a LEE t/l boolit.
from the lubes you mentioned above, you need to factor in a couple of things.
one is for sure the weather/temp, and another is storage.

mml is designed as a cold weather first shot from the barrel lube made for hunting in the cold.

bens are across the board lubes, and do well in medium temperatures from about 30-f up through 90-f or so.

felix lube has a slightly larger window than Bens does on the cold end and can be manipulated for the heat with the addition of 3-5% carnuba wax.
it's a fairly sticky lube and doesn't take to a bunch of em tossed in a box well [neither does the other two really]

one you might want to take a good look at is the 666-1 lube sometimes called satans lube the -1 is an additive that helps it's temp window and the core condition of the barrel.

[Toymaker]

For smokeless powder I don't push my 405's that hard, but I dropped everything I'd been playing with when I discovered Ben's Red. BUT, I might go back to Darr's with a coating of Ben's Liquid Lube. That could be suitable for smokeless and black. Make for an interesting test anyway.

[725]

For me, I'm sold on Ben's Red in the sizer, followed by some tumble lubed Ben's LL. Clean, slippery and doesn't leave lead in anything I've tried so far.

[huntinlever]

Thanks guys. I should have mentioned, my son and I will be tracking deep in the WI northwoods, as well as the Upper Peninsula of Michigan - both of which indicate there's a good chance we'll be heavy in snow and cold. So Runfiverun, sounds like MML might be the ticket.

This is all new to me guys, so please bear with me. I wasn't even aware the lube choice can be so temperature dependent. Guess when buying bullets, and who knows what lube (seem hard to me, but I really don't know anything yet), you get what you get.

Given this optimal temperature range, how do you guys deal with trying to work up a load, across the seasons of the year? I know powders are also temp sensitive, some more than others, so am trying to take that into account as I progress here; this lube stuff is just truly absolutely new, and absolutely interesting. Thanks.

[runfiverun]

two lubes.

the mml would be a great hunting lube for what you want, it was developed specifically for the Michigan hunting season.

a swap for general shooting and such then a couple of sight in shots with the mml and use it to hunt with is what most of us in the cold climates do.

oh those store-boughts are [99% of the time] lubes made with micro-wax, a little carnuba and coloring in it.
it's designed to stay in the lube grooves and look good.

[huntinlever]

Thanks Runfive, perfect. So I'm making up some Ben's Red and gathering the materials for the MML. Just curious (I should probably just search S & S), but it appears blendedwax only says the microcrystalline wax in 10 lb increments - which would be a lot of years of MML! - so do you happen to know if anyone in particular sells this wax in smaller increments, here?

[Toymaker]

Powder has given me more headaches than lube in big temperature changes. Develop a load in summer and it turns into a shotgun pattern in winter, or visa versa. That's one, of many, reasons I use black powder hunting loads. Once developed they have never failed me. For lube I use Darr's lube. Recently I started dipping these lubed bullets in Ben's Liquid Lube and letting them dry. This past winter was their first and they worked very well. We had some weird weather too. There were times temperatures were in the 70's. In February there was a stretch where it was below zero, with WC of -19°

[ascast]

What is mml ?

just reading and learning (trying)
thanks

[huntinlever]

Hey ascast, it's "Mike's Micro Lithi" lube. Here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?196761-where-to-find-this-lube-recipe&p=2190650&viewfull=1#post2190650) you go. Also a great index (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?196761-where-to-find-this-lube-recipe) of lube recipes.

[runfiverun]

I don't.
you might be able to split an order with a couple of guy's, thats what we done.

anybody interested in lube stuff and has a lot of time to read can look at the lube quest sticky at the top of this page.
the testing is ongoing still, we are a bit stymied with building a base wax right at the moment.

[badbob454]

[QUOTE=runfiverun;3210276]I use 45/45/10 lube in my 45-70 but I also use a LEE t/l boolit.
from the lubes you mentioned above, you need to factor in a couple of things.
one is for sure the weather/temp, and another is storage.

which t l boolit do you use i cant seem to find it at fs reloading ?

[lobogunleather]

In my .45-70's, .45-90 and .45 Sharps I shoot my bullets as-cast, no sizing. One of the best lubes I have found is white lithium grease, which you can find at just about any auto parts store in tubes for a few bucks. I apply it with my fingers, filling the grooves generously. Takes about 20 minutes to lube 100 bullets.

Excellent lubricant, can hardly be said to have a melting point, stays soft forever. Bores wipe clean with a few patches. Best accuracy I have experienced with any lube for cast bullets.

[d garfield]

I started powder coating for mine, love it.

[big bore 99]

I've been having very good results with paper patching in my 45-70's. Much more predictable and less mess.

[runfiverun]

its a 435 gr T/L gas check boolit. [2 cavity]
I got it from DK-17Hmr a few years back.
at first it was on loan.
then it was 'just keep hold of it, i'll come get it if I ever get a 45-70'.
it seems to actually work in my browning 86 with it's tight throat, the nose just butts up short of being against the rifling.

[huntinlever]

I don't.
you might be able to split an order with a couple of guy's, thats what we done.

anybody interested in lube stuff and has a lot of time to read can look at the lube quest sticky at the top of this page.
the testing is ongoing still, we are a bit stymied with building a base wax right at the moment.


Hello guys -

Been quite awhile, ups and downs of life, but eagerly looking forward to this year's hunt, our first together, my son and I.

So, we've settled on our hunting area, a wilderness area near Lake Superior. I'd originally anticipated an almost certainty of cold and snow, but in talking more with rangers, wildlife biologists, etc., it's basically a **** shoot - we can be facing anything from unseasonably warm to below zero and deep, deep snow. So I'd like to ask again, RunFive, and the community, your thoughts on this.

I still have a ton of Ben's Red, from when I first made this. It is on all my current boolits in storage, and it's what I've been shooting and sighting in with, since starting casting and reloading. It's performed brilliantly.

Given the wide range of possible weather, I'd ask - any further thoughts? Should I stick with Ben's Red, or does probability bring y'all to lean towards MML, let's say?

A side question, a bit lame. I do love Ben's Red but obviously (and thankfully) it's not the commercial boolit hard-as-nails lube. The lube can get beat up pretty good in a box of finished boolits. How do you guys store your boolits, when using any DIY lubes that are a bit tacky, softer than the commercial ones?

Finally, just a quick appraisal request. I have a lot of friends that love LBT, and stop right there. I like DIY'ing, all the way down the line, but if LBT is the stuff, I wouldn't mind buying this one component. I respect Veral quite a bit and have learned from him.

Many thanks, all. I hope you're all well, and getting ready for a great season.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If you made your Ben's Red, precisely as per his recipe, it has 10% JPW, which per the MSDS is 5 to 10% carnuba, the ingredient that will give you a cold barrel flier. It'd be great if someone has some experience with cold weather (as the U.P. can deliver) and 1st shot fliers with Ben's Red? But if I were to guess, I'd say that lube with about .5% to 1.0% carnuba could give a 1st shot cold barrel flier of a couple inches off POI at 100 yards. while not desirable, it's probably no big deal for hunting in the brushy part of the U.P.
that's my 2¢

[huntinlever]

Great, thanks Jon. Sounds like MML is a good candidate, if I've understood Runfiverun. Have you had any experience with MML?

[huntinlever]

By the way, I was just able to order 2 lbs of the white microcrystalline wax from The Compleat Sculptor. They call it "white victory wax" but I confirmed, it's the Blended wax's white microcrystalline.

I have not had the need for a luber-sizer as I did a considerable run with Ben's Red. Back to getting a sizer - I know this has been asked a billion times, but would the MML work with a standard LAM II (without heater) in a basement that stays a consistent 55F or so, through the winter? Would the Lyman 4500 w/heater be better advised?

Thanks, I know I'm late to the game, but I appreciate the assistance.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I got a fair sized sample of MML+S from 357Maximum, but I have never done any cold weather shooting testing with it. That lube sample would definitely need a heater on a lubesizer, if the room temp is 55ºF.

[huntinlever]

I got a fair sized sample of MML+S from 357Maximum, but I have never done any cold weather shooting testing with it. That lube sample would definitely need a heater on a lubesizer, if the room temp is 55ºF.

OK, thanks, Jon. I wonder if I screwed up the Ben's red somehow - it's supposed to be for warmer weather, by which I'd presume, it's supposed to be a bit harder than, say, the MML, but I found it needed no heat at all, filled out and went through well, on my old 450 (since busted, another story). Good to know, though, that the heater is advised with the MML. Cabela's has them, though they're going for $20 more than other places I'm seeing (not surprising, in my experience).

edit: FWIW, these are groups this last April, 425 WLNGC's from Accurate, and Ben's.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/39.7_zpsghp1uyyc.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/pkphotodo/media/39.7_zpsghp1uyyc.jpg.html)

39.7 grains IME 4198 (above) is what I settled on, even though I got slightly better group at 39.3:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/39.3_zpsv6njvuz7.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/pkphotodo/media/39.3_zpsv6njvuz7.jpg.html)

-similar results by +/- 0.2 grains 39.3-40.1, but 39.7 grains showed the best chrony stats, so went with it. 1700 fps or so.

[Tailhunter]

Ben's Red followed by a light coat of BLL. It just works.

[huntinlever]

two lubes.

the mml would be a great hunting lube for what you want, it was developed specifically for the Michigan hunting season.

a swap for general shooting and such then a couple of sight in shots with the mml and use it to hunt with is what most of us in the cold climates do.

oh those store-boughts are [99% of the time] lubes made with micro-wax, a little carnuba and coloring in it.
it's designed to stay in the lube grooves and look good.

Runfive, to revisit this, this approach makes perfect sense to me. The only reason I've not implemented it is because I have only one luber (got the 4500, w/ heater), and dealing with changing out lubes, even seasonally, seemed like more trouble than it was worth, if one lube does serviceably well across the seasons. How does one deal with one machine, and multiple lubes on a trial basis?

I'm very happy with Ben's, very happy, but curiosity also has me wanting to try out some MML, and I have the ingredients now. So would love to know what people do in this situation.

[huntinlever]

Ben's Red followed by a light coat of BLL. It just works.

I've read this elsewhere too, Tail. Thanks for the post.

[rfd]

"gatofeo" lube.

with the typical .45-70 tin:lead alloy un-checked bullet, gato lube works superbly for both black powder and smokeless (such as aa5744) cartridges, travelling upwards of 1300+fps. it's also my go-to lube for .45acp lead.

by weight ....

1 part mutton tallow (dixie gun works)
1 part canning wax (gulf wax)
1/2 part pure beeswax (found just about everywhere)

melt all three ingredients double boiler style, i.e. - put the parts in a jar or can, put that container in a pot of water, heat the water.

to get the lube on the boolits i do dip lubing - fast 'n' thorough.

adjust the amount of beeswax for really hot or cold climates.

[Tailhunter]

I have no experience with this lube and severe cold weather but all my 45/70 castings get "simple green", works very well.

[randyrat]

I highly recommend bringing a tow strap (no chain, too dangerous) with you and 2 shovels as part of your critical gear. Do it just as you would bring your gun and ammo. Especially NE WI and Upper Peninsula MI, as there is plenty of lake affect snow every day, and I mean every day.
The temperature is a **** shoot, sometimes it's way below zero other years I've seen it above.
The other lube is TAC 1, it was developed for WI

[Gelandangan]

Speed Green or its equivalent
or
LOTAK or its equivalent.