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W.R.Buchanan
04-07-2015, 05:55 PM
Does anyone know how to make .43 Mauser Cases out of something that is readily available?

I have a friend who has an M 71/84 Mauser and the only cases he can find are Bertram and they are $4 ea. and last about two reloads with Black Powder and Cast and then separate.

We are looking to find something he can substitute that will be a little more affordable and last better or at least be easier to replace.

Randy

EDG
04-07-2015, 07:09 PM
Graf's has Jamison Brass 43 Spanish. I think they have the same base diameter but different rim.
If you have a C&R you can get a discount on Graf's $2.35 each. I hear that Jamison is real brass compared to Bertram's junk.

You might measure the actual diameter of the chamber at the head and compare the real number with current brass.
You might find a rimless or belted round that can be fired single shot.

brstevns
04-07-2015, 07:45 PM
Graf's has Jamison Brass 43 Spanish. I think they have the same base diameter but different rim.
If you have a C&R you can get a discount on Graf's $2.35 each. I hear that Jamison is real brass compared to Bertram's junk.

You might measure the actual diameter of the chamber at the head and compare the real number with current brass.
You might find a rimless or belted round that can be fired single shot. You should be able to make them from 7mm rem mag., 300 win mag. 338 win mag. 458 win mag etc. I use these to make 43 Spanish Brass. The belt needs to be removed. I use a small needle file and file them off while watching the TV. Takes awhile to do it this way. If you have a small lath should take no time to turn them off. Run case into sizer die with the expander removed. Case will need to be deprimed if once fired brass is used. Prime case then firer form with 11 gr Unique and the rest of the case filled with Cream of Wheat or Gritts etc. You will need a small retainer ring that fits extractor groove to give you needed head space and something for the extractor to grab hold of. Once form you will need to trim to correct length. You may find you need to anneal the case before firer forming if you are getting a lot with cracked necks. I anneal after sizing and before fire forming for the 43 Spanish.
For the retainer ring I took a piece of brass to my local Ace Hardware and tried different ones til I found what work. One I found the size needed I bought a 100 off ebay because it was so much cheaper. Yes a lot of work but I enjoyed making them and they seem to last forever.

EDG
04-07-2015, 10:41 PM
There are a lot of companies that make C clips, crescent rings and grips rings of all sorts.
Walsdes has a good set of photos in their catalogs to help you find a type you might want to try.

http://waldestruarc.com/products.php#inchring

GRUMPA
04-07-2015, 10:52 PM
I'm going to watch this thread kinda close. Not that I plan on doing this conversion but the concept of making them from the belted magnums has peaked my curiosity to where I might play around when and if I have the time. Some of the ideas that folks actually post is mind boggling to the point I wonder if some of them are even in print. The creativeness of some members is astounding.....

justashooter
04-08-2015, 01:58 PM
Does anyone know how to make .43 Mauser Cases out of something that is readily available?

I have a friend who has an M 88 Mauser and the only cases he can find are Bertram and they are $4 ea. and last about two reloads with Black Powder and Cast and then separate.


I use 45-90 brass, turn the rim diameter down about 10 thousandths to fit bolt face, can't remember if I had to trim length (don't think so), run into the 43 sizing die, then load .446 bullets swaged from 300 grain .452 pistol castings over about 10 grains unique under pillow stuffing to get around speed of sound. the base diameter of the 45-90 case is about 10 thou under chamber so the case stretches to fill, and the rim thickness is a bit light, but the first firing tightens up the shoulder so neck sizing only afterwards controls headspacing and everything is GTG. fun stuff in a 71/84 rifle.

the 43 mauser was for the 71 and 71/84 rifles. the 88 commission rifle was in 8x57.

Gunor
04-08-2015, 02:06 PM
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/240/1/CASE-45-90

$1.05 a piece.

Justashooter - do you also run the bevel on the rim? (probably)

mazo kid
04-08-2015, 03:35 PM
I made some from 300 Win Mag., had the rim rebated on the bottom to better fit in the bolt head. On some I soft soldered a ring of 14 ga. brass wire to the base so the cases would extract. Also made some from 348 Win. cases, but these are a little short. These are pretty labor-intensive cases to make.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/43Mauser021_zpsf24fc58f.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/43Mauser021_zpsf24fc58f.jpg.html)

bruce drake
04-08-2015, 09:52 PM
I'm following this thread as a buddy of mine has a M71/84 that I might purchase from him the next time he complains about the cost of shooting it.

Bruce

mazo kid
04-11-2015, 02:13 PM
Just made a few more cases yesterday. Here is a photo of a box ready to load, these are made from 300 Mag and 7mm Mag mostly:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/Mauser%20brass%20002_zpsdlg7cugs.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/Mauser%20brass%20002_zpsdlg7cugs.jpg.html)
From Right to left, first 5 rows are old CIL (original factory) brass, next row is made from 348 Win ( a bit short), last 4 rows are made from the Mag based cases.

Good Cheer
04-11-2015, 08:52 PM
Thank you for posting this.
The 9.5x52 is calling me.
:drinks:

EDG
04-11-2015, 11:29 PM
Mazo
Could you describe your process for adding the rims?


Just made a few more cases yesterday. Here is a photo of a box ready to load, these are made from 300 Mag and 7mm Mag mostly:

From Right to left, first 5 rows are old CIL (original factory) brass, next row is made from 348 Win ( a bit short), last 4 rows are made from the Mag based cases.

leadman
04-12-2015, 12:14 AM
I found the Lee dies push the shoulder too far down the case. I just neck size with the Lee die, then expand the case mouth with the Lee Universal Flare Die with a specially made pin that follows the Lyman M die design. The Lee die also sizes down the neck too far so I will polish this out larger when I remember to do it. I use .450" boolit rather than the .446" boolit. The bore of my 71 is .458" but the largest boolit that will go in the neck is .450".
I have been loading the Bertram brass with no problems.

mazo kid
04-12-2015, 04:50 PM
EDG, I wind the brass wire on a steel rod about .444" diam, cut off with end nipper or diagonal cutter, slip ring over case to rim. I put this in my smooth faced vise jaws and tighten, twist slightly, tighten, twist slightly, etc. This sets the wire into the groove at the base. Then I soft solder the ring onto the base, gently. Next you will have to have a lathe...turn the ring to .572" diam, then thin the ring from the front of the case until the case will seat and extract. Yes, piddly work, but rewarding. I have also made cases from 45-90 brass, a bit easier but the base is small and needs to be annealed so it will swell on fire-forming.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/Mauser%20brass_zpsanl9bnft.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/Mauser%20brass_zpsanl9bnft.jpg.html)

EDG
04-13-2015, 12:52 AM
Mazo
Thanks for the explanation. Do you know if the brass gets hot enough in the head to anneal it?
If you use low temp solder - do you heat with a torch or in a temp controlled oven?



EDG, I wind the brass wire on a steel rod about .444" diam, cut off with end nipper or diagonal cutter, slip ring over case to rim. I put this in my smooth faced vise jaws and tighten, twist slightly, tighten, twist slightly, etc. This sets the wire into the groove at the base. Then I soft solder the ring onto the base, gently. Next you will have to have a lathe...turn the ring to .572" diam, then thin the ring from the front of the case until the case will seat and extract. Yes, piddly work, but rewarding. I have also made cases from 45-90 brass, a bit easier but the base is small and needs to be annealed so it will swell on fire-forming.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/Mauser%20brass_zpsanl9bnft.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/Mauser%20brass_zpsanl9bnft.jpg.html)

mazo kid
04-14-2015, 07:27 PM
The brass does change color just a bit, but I load low pressure black powder loads and there isn't a problem. I THINK that possibly shooting these a couple of times might work harden them.

Mk42gunner
04-15-2015, 03:29 PM
The heat to melt solder, even soft solder worries me a bit on the case head.

That got me thinking about the various epoxies, glues, and sealants that are now available. A few years ago I saw a cold process way of connecting copper plumbing pipe in a store. It seemed reasonable, but since I already know how to solder copper together I didn't buy any and don't even know if it is still available. This might be an even better place for it.

Robert

brstevns
04-15-2015, 05:55 PM
EDG, I wind the brass wire on a steel rod about .444" diam, cut off with end nipper or diagonal cutter, slip ring over case to rim. I put this in my smooth faced vise jaws and tighten, twist slightly, tighten, twist slightly, etc. This sets the wire into the groove at the base. Then I soft solder the ring onto the base, gently. Next you will have to have a lathe...turn the ring to .572" diam, then thin the ring from the front of the case until the case will seat and extract. Yes, piddly work, but rewarding. I have also made cases from 45-90 brass, a bit easier but the base is small and needs to be annealed so it will swell on fire-forming.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/mazokid/Mauser%20brass_zpsanl9bnft.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mazokid/media/Mauser%20brass_zpsanl9bnft.jpg.html) Is that just one ring end to end? Looks like two turns? Have you tried copper wire?

Ballistics in Scotland
04-15-2015, 09:16 PM
I believe the German 6.5x68R case, the rimmed version of the Schuler round, could be used. The head diameter is about .520in. I have some, made by RWS about twenty years ago, which I used to make the 7.7x60R, and at the time they were cheaper within the European Community and, I think, tougher than Bertram.

mazo kid
04-17-2015, 04:17 PM
When I wind the wire, I make several "rings", then snip them off singly to slip on the brass. I use a torch to heat just until the solder flows, then dunk the brass into a jar of water. In the photo of the two different brass cases, you can see the result of heating on the case on the left. I wish I had some of the Schuler brass to try!

Ballistics in Scotland
04-18-2015, 08:04 AM
I'd be wary of anything that causes even slight discoloration of the case head. You would probably be all right with black powder or equivalent pressures, but in your place I would keep those cases for my own use, or only pass them on with a warning. There are plenty of rifles in which the .43 Mauser can be loaded to higher pressures. I would also get a hand priming tool, which I don't normally use, to get a clear feel if the primer pocketstarted loosening. There are solders which melt at rather less than the usual lead-tin, but I don't know if there are any penalties in strength, ease of flow or nastiness of flux. There must be some reason why we aren't all using them.

It must be around forty years since I saw a "Guns and Ammo" article on the application of a rim to a rimless case, for some obscure European double rifle. The author lathe-turned a short, slightly reverse-tapered cylindrical section on the case-head, swaged the rim into place with a bench press, then turned it to the right shape. The extractor pull of the 71/84 is slightly more localized on the rim than that of a double rifle, but not nearly as much as with most falling-block actions, which have a tilting extractor.

ascast
04-20-2015, 09:53 PM
what exactly is seperating?

W.R.Buchanan
04-21-2015, 03:43 PM
so my friend decided to go the .45-90 route. I think it will do the best job for him.

Thanks for all the responses and help on this oddball request.

Randy

Russian 54r
10-28-2015, 10:08 AM
Rainy day and decided to see how it would work using the 348 Win brass. Don't have an original case so going by specs I could find on the web. Lathing the head seemed to go well but, like stated above, it's a little short. Looks like it's .135 thou short and was wondering how far it might stretch after sizing . That being said I haven't sized it yet and am waiting to find a die set.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/19700101_204528_zpsaspdm9ig.jpg

Russian 54r
10-28-2015, 10:13 AM
Still waiting to see how it would go using 45-90 Rem brass.

Russian 54r
10-28-2015, 10:19 AM
Just made a few more cases yesterday. Here is a photo of a box ready to load, these are made from 300 Mag and 7mm Mag mostly.

In your opinion which was the best one to reform?

Russian 54r
10-28-2015, 11:35 AM
Found my Lee dies, cleaned the sizer die and tried twice to full length size. Lubed case, cast neck and took it easy and little by little and still crushed the shoulders. Maybe if I could use some sort of expander to use on the case neck inside first before trying to full length size. OR maybe use different neck sizers working up to the 43 Mauser neck. Any suggestions appreciated.


43 Neck sizer:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/19700101_214237_zpsukpdhnbg.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/19700101_221914_zpsgbegxgfp.jpg

Russian 54r
10-28-2015, 12:53 PM
Starting to think this in not a worthwhile endeavor, for me anyway, to save some cash by forming brass! Put the neck sizer in the lathe and polished it and was able to overcome the crushing shoulder. Broke my shell holder, when it got stuck in die about 4/5th of full sizing. Had to hammer the neck sizer in order to get the shell out of the die.

:veryconfu I'd gladly trade some new 8x56r for some 43 Mauser brass!

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/19700101_233708_zpskhjlyc70.jpg

hd09
10-28-2015, 01:01 PM
The ones I have made from 348 I annealed the mouth and made a expander with a long taper that I used in a m-die, that was after I crushed a few necks. A lot of steps to make them but to much fun to shoot em. The sticker still on the stock Movie Prop From 'The Last Samurai'

Russian 54r
10-28-2015, 01:06 PM
The ones I have made from 348 I annealed the mouth and made a expander with a long taper that I used in a m-die, that was after I crushed a few necks. A lot of steps to make them but to much fun to shoot em. The sticker still on the stock Movie Prop From 'The Last Samurai'

No, I was just surmising it "might" be because it was in such good shape. Can't wait to get to the range even though I've had it for about 8 years or so.

Russian 54r
10-28-2015, 01:15 PM
No, I was just surmising it "might" be because it was in such good shape. Can't wait to get to the range even though I've had it for about 8 years or so.


Anyway the next problem would be the brass "sizing" when you get close the head/base. The shell is just too big to go into my sizing die and that is when it got stuck. See 1st shell in photo above.

Russian 54r
10-28-2015, 01:18 PM
I hope the I'm not "hi-jacking" W.R. Buchanan's posting! I hate it when people do that to me. But it is related to his question, I guess.

enfield
10-28-2015, 08:21 PM
I think you would have better luck "fire forming" to expand the neck area. If you have to force things that much, it's only going to damage stuff.

Russian 54r
10-28-2015, 08:51 PM
I think you would have better luck "fire forming" to expand the neck area. If you have to force things that much, it's only going to damage stuff.

You can't fire form until you get the last 3/8" into the die. Maybe I'll take the case neck out of the die and see if it will full length form so it will fit into the barrel chamber and then fire form. Problem is I live in a tight neighborhood and it would be loud and the cops would show up.

hd09
10-29-2015, 07:28 AM
You do need to turn the base down just above the head, doesn't look like you did, but that would be the issue for the last 3/8''.

Russian 54r
10-29-2015, 09:43 AM
You do need to turn the base down just above the head, doesn't look like you did, but that would be the issue for the last 3/8''.

Looks like an exercise in futility for me!

upnorthwis
10-29-2015, 12:19 PM
I made .43 Mauser out of .45-90 WCF. Sized in one step with no oil dents. After trimming most of them to 2.37", I found that the untrimmed ones fit just fine. Could have used that extra neck support. After turning the relief, I used the "Dent method" to correct the headspace. Some people will solder a ring on the front side of the rim to do this, but the dents work just as well. The fixture has a 33/64" hole to hold brass and two slots at 90 degrees 152125.028 deep to keep material movement equal. Made the punch out of a 16p nail. Hand grind nail to .07 x .12 with a flat tip. I only put two dents in at 90 degrees. That way I can still use the shell holder for .45-90.

Russian 54r
10-29-2015, 01:19 PM
"Well" if I just do a one time buy of 20 rounds this would probably last me at least 100 years! LoL I probably am able to go shooting at least that often. However I did make a good contact that has invited me to come to his property whenever I like. It's about an hour drive towards Disney World in "Green Swamp!" Maybe I'll do more shooting.

mazo kid
10-30-2015, 02:31 PM
In your opinion which was the best one to reform?
I found the 300 Mag brass to be easier; the 7mm Mag took a couple of fire forming loads. Probably the bigger Mag rounds would be even easier.

mazo kid
10-30-2015, 02:35 PM
I think you would have better luck "fire forming" to expand the neck area. If you have to force things that much, it's only going to damage stuff.
I agree, that is what I did on all the cases I made. Also, on the 348 Win. cases I turned the bases until they just slipped in the chamber, doesn't take much.

b money
10-30-2015, 09:51 PM
I'm not sure if this will help anyone make brass in any way but I have one original 1873(I believe) 43 Mauser round it is loaded either from the factory or a very long time ago. If someone can use it to get measurements or ideas from and is willing to pay the ammo shipping rate, Im looking for 338win mag stuff. Just a thought.

Russian 54r
10-31-2015, 09:20 AM
I agree, that is what I did on all the cases I made. Also, on the 348 Win. cases I turned the bases until they just slipped in the chamber, doesn't take much.

Turn till "into the chamber" or into the die for sizing? Can't put into the chamber before full length sizing. (Confused in Florida!!)

skeettx
10-31-2015, 11:13 AM
Y'all do know that the pictures in Cartridges of the World are life sized??

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j452/skeettx/MVC-001S_2.jpg

Mike

Russian 54r
11-01-2015, 08:55 PM
Fortunately, for me, I was able to buy a box of 15 rounds once shot brass and five loaded rounds. Then this evening I was going thru some boxes and found 20 new primered rounds and 20 new brass rounds. I had bought them from Buffalo Arms years ago and forgot I had them. I've 50 .446 x 355 gr bullets but have yet to slug the bore for specs.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/20151101_184619_zps2gdl3biy.jpg

douglasskid
11-05-2015, 10:30 PM
Interesting thread. Very interesting!

mazo kid
11-06-2015, 11:41 PM
Turn till "into the chamber" or into the die for sizing? Can't put into the chamber before full length sizing. (Confused in Florida!!)
No sizing needed when forming from 348 Win. brass. The base needs to be turned so as to chamber for fire forming.