Indoor range and lead poisoning

[kryogen]

Do people who shoot indoor here, or cast bullets have their lead levels checked periodically?

If ventilation isnt perfect in indoor ranges (and it is not where I shoot because they have blocked filters that they need to replace) and I just started wondering about this yesterday night after a shooting session. I felt a bit dizzy and unable to sleep. Related? No clue.
I also cast bullets, but now wear a respirator P100/ multi gas every time I handle lead dust or melt.(but, I don't have a proper exhaust fan above the melting pot, so I need to take care of this before I cast more bullets I guess).
Will probably call my dr to have a blood test done just to check what my levels are.

So, do you reloaders or shooters have had your blood lead tested?

I'm seriously about to start shooting with a respirator when shooting indoors.

Also, I will start wearing separate clothes at the shooting line, and wash those when I get home, so I don't contaminate the house with lead dust. My wife is pregnant and I would not want to poison the baby with lead. I sometimes did not think about that. Clothes get lead dust on them.

[Cherokee]

Don't know about anyone else but @ 73 my blood level is within normal. I mostly shoot out of doors but last few years have done a lot of indoor shooting. I have been casting nearly 50 years, all in doors w/o a ven fan and smelting outside. Normal levels. However, I think proper care is good, I just didn't think about it most of my life.

[Dusty Bannister]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?16442-Are-you-poisoned-The-lead-blood-levels-poll

Very common question and this has an interesting comment in post #16.

[bobthenailer]

I have been shooting at my clubs indoor range for 6 months out of the year in a winter pistol league since 1975. and cast my bullets indoors in the month of Febuary and smelt outdoors when it warms up , no resperator in or outdoors ! but use good ventlation in both cases , have made around 1/2 million cast bullets . i have been checked several times my levels are normal !

WASH HANDS ALOT like a doctor before doing anything else! eating , smoking ect

[runfiverun]

every time I have any kind of blood work done I ask to have the lead levels checked.
I never get a high reading, and I probably do just about every thing wrong. [smoking, casting indoors, poor ventilation, gloves, etc.]
I used to work daily with lead oxide as part of my job and had a smaller commercial cast bullet business going at the same time and was trained front to back on how to deal with lead.
I never had anything higher than a medium [monitored it every 3 months] level, and was dealing with it 14-16 hours a day, plus shooting in my free time.
had I taken slightly better precautions I never would have gotten that high.

some simple precautions will help keep you down into the 'normal' level.
wash your hands, wear some gloves, drink some whole milk, and don't lick the lead.
don't make this hard on yourself.

[Mal Paso]

The boiling point of lead is 3,182 F. In normal casting there won't be lead fumes. I have ventilation over the pot but that is for flux and contaminants if present.

Lead is heavy and doesn't become airborne easily.

Wash your hands.

[mdi]

If shooting indoors in a poorly ventilated range is toxic/dangerous, I should be dead. My first 15 years of shooting lead bullets was done, 99.9% of the time indoors in an old range. I worked downtown LA and cast, reloaded (popped out those killer primers), and all my lead levels, tested annually, came back "normal" (IIRC; 4). I personally think all the "scare tactics" and internet "warnings" about lead poisoning are waaaaaay overblown fear. Politicians get backing/good vibes from the "Green Left" when they jump on the "anti-lead bandwagon", just like what happened to 1/3 of the state of CA...

Use common sense and you'll be OK, and I doubt if your sleeplessness and headache had anything to do with lead...

[bangerjim]

I shoot both in and out. My indoor range has excellent ventillation! A strong breeze blowing from circ/evap systems. I rarely smell anything.

[LenH]

The only person that I know of that ever had lead levels that were a bit high was a friend that did everything wrong. He would eat, pick his nose etc. while loading castboolits.
He did not cast his own boolits but loaded piles of them, he tried to blame it on shooting indoors but a Friday night Bullseye league that was indoors proved that wrong.
All he had to do was refrain from those old habits and he returned to normal.

[MrWolf]

I have my blood checked every six months anyway so just ask them to check for lead. They just draw an extra vial.

[mozeppa]

i had my lead levels check...they said i was a quart low.

oh well ...back to eatin' paint chips!:bigsmyl2:

[MtGun44]

purple vial is for lead testing.

Indoors the primers and lead dust from impacting steel targets are the issues,
as well as eating or smoking with hands contaminated with lead dust (EVERYTHING on the
indoor range is contaminated). Wash hands, don't eat around it,
and don't spend 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week on a poorly ventilated indoor range and
you will be fine.

Also, most docs are very uninformed/misinformed on this topic and frequently use the
children's lead level of 10 as their "max allowable" which is nonsense. OSHA limits in
industry are 40, so you can legally have 38 forever and be OK as an adult. No reason
to be that high if you take a bit of care you should be down to 10-30 level even if you
shoot on an indoor range a lot.

[Beagle333]

Mine is a 2. :D (I never shoot nor cast indoors.... but maybe not even a factor)

[bedbugbilly]

QUOTE

"Indoors the primers and lead dust from impacting steel targets are the issues,
as well as eating or smoking with hands contaminated with lead dust (EVERYTHING on the
indoor range is contaminated). Wash hands, don't eat around it,
and don't spend 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week on a poorly ventilated indoor range and
you will be fine."


MtGun44 - not picking on you but just had to quote some of your response about contaminated hands and eating or "smoking" . . . I know how your remarks were intended and it was good information - BUT - I'm always amazed when someone in the hobby gets all bent out of shape whether or not they have a high lead level . . and yet they smoke? (and I'm not referring to you - but those who smoke and cast/shoot/handle lead, etc. - and I am a "reformed smoker" myself).

Or those who feel they must consume large quantities of beer while casting - which can inhibit their response should something go wrong while working with something that can cause 3rd degree burns . . . or those who drink while shooting or afterwards to excess and then climb in their vehicle to drive home putting themselves and others on the road at risk . . .

I'm not a "prude" but while it is good to be concerned when working with lead or other materials in regards to your health, if common sense is used there should be nothing to worry about. I grew up in the "lead paint era" and have been casting and shooting for 50 + years . . . after blood tests, my physicians are not concerned about my level at all . . . I get more concerned about the people who haven't learned that "other things" mixed with casting and shooting CAN be harmful - to themselves and others.

As far as not washing your hands before smoking . . . I'd be more worried about the effects of the smoking than I wold the casting and shooting . . . .

[leeggen]

I bet the headache and sleeplessness is more related to the wife being pregnant. I know when my wife was I lost a lot of sleep thinking about the future. I myself wouldn't wear a resporator when shooting I beleive it when throw my shots off.
CD

[mdi]

My gripe isn't with anyone's personal habits, but it's with the huge amount of misinformation repeated on forums. Most of the "lead poisoning" threads here on Castboolits are common sense and pretty close to facts. It's when a new caster/lead shooter has to ask "am I gonna die?" type questions because he heard the unknowing "advising" him it's dangerous. I too grew up in the lead paint era (I used "red lead" primer on a couple autos because that was what was on hand). I didn't know any kids that ate paint chips mebbe because their parents fed them (lots of beans and tortillas and many more tortillas and beans, and on Sunday, Menudo). This whole lead "poising" scare get my panties in a bunch, just because it's so overblown and illogical...

[Washington1331]

You've touched on a topic near and dear to my heart. People today get totally bent out of shape at even the mention of lead... it seems that even one "exposure" is more dangerous than ricin, and makes VX gas look like the chicken pox.

In the last few months, I've dealt with multiple calls from concerned units in regards to the conditions of our indoor range facilities that my current unit owns. I tell them all the same thing. The airflow tests are within normal parameters, the shooters are remaining behind the static firing line, and as long as your personnel are not licking the horizzontal surfaces or hunting for easter eggs near the backstop, they're going to be fine for the short amount of time that they are there.

DOD uses an airflow design standard of 75 lineal feet per minute (LFM) at 1 ft, 3 ft and 5 ft heights at each firing point. The minimal air movement at each point per the Navy Medical manual is 40 LFM. Airflow should originate from behind the firing line and travel down range towards the backstop.

If you're not feeling positive airflow coming from your back when facing the backstop at your indoor range, or discharge smoke is pooling and not disipating down range... there may be an issue, but unless you're shooting there ALOT you MIGHT have slightly elevated levels. Keeping your hands out of your mouth, after shooting and washing your hands will go a long way to prevent elevated levels.

What we've found in a lot of our studies is that one area that contributes greatly to lead contamination and higher lead levels on blood tests is that people don't think about the exposure that occurs as a result of what their clothing brings off the range. We just recently had to clean an entire building as a result of people bringing lead dust off the range on their clothes and depositing it on their journeys around the building. Now granted these levels were the result of several years and several million rounds... but we found elevated levels in lockers, at work stations chairs and also in vehicle seats... How often have you dropped a french fry while driving had it land between your legs on the seat and you've invoked the five second rule?

Just my two cents.

[fredj338]

It's not even the lead bullets but the lead based primers. Unless the range is lead free; non toxic ammo only, you will be exposed to higher lead levels, regardless of the ventilation system IMO. fastest way to lead poisoning is shooting indoors.
FWIW, one persons exp is almost meaningless to another. Individual physiology will determine how your body processes any toxin. Good hygiene, diet & exercise go along way, but you can rarely fight genetics. So I choose to stay away from indoor ranges as much as possible, 3-4x a year, the rest is outdoor.

[unique]

My blood level would rise to around 20 when I shot indoors for any length of time. It drops to around 5 when I shoot outdoors. We are talking months for the change to occur but it is repeatable...I should say was repeatable because I now shoot outdoors exclusively. The indoor range where I shot had fans/ventilation but didn't matter. Maybe LL would have climbed higher without them.

I suspect the billow of smoke I always get from cast loaded over unique powder as being the culprit.

[kryogen]

I got my prescription for lead blood level, will take an appointment.
will now shoot exclusively with a p100 multi gas respirator inside. Screw the looks, I'm not getting poisoned.

[yovinny]

I ran an indoor pistol range for 5 years in the late 80's.
It was an old steel plate over sand type 25yd range, ventilation was minimal and 'grandfathered' in, as it wouldn't have made the current building code at that time.
In my 'invincible youth', I used no protection besides a dust mask when sweeping the 'down range' area. I also smoked, drank, etc, by just stopping for a minute and stepping outside, no washing required.
IIRC, my level was 79 when I started to experience 'issues' and had my DR. do testing. It was down below 15 some 6 months later after leaving range and the old school vitamin & zinc regiment.

Follow the commonly known safe handling practices and you wont have a problem.
Have your DR. do testing when you go, if for nothing more than peace of mind.

Cheers, YV

[Litl Red 3991]

Wash your hands after shooting. No lie.

Unless of course, you know you won't wipe your eyes, pick your nose, or eat something like a candy bar before getting the residue off your hands later. Later is not good enough.

For some reason, few warnings mention how we most often transfer germs and such from our hands into our body. Guess nobody picks their candy bars up with their bare hands..... ;)

[kryogen]

What issues did you get?


I ran an indoor pistol range for 5 years in the late 80's.
It was an old steel plate over sand type 25yd range, ventilation was minimal and 'grandfathered' in, as it wouldn't have made the current building code at that time.
In my 'invincible youth', I used no protection besides a dust mask when sweeping the 'down range' area. I also smoked, drank, etc, by just stopping for a minute and stepping outside, no washing required.
IIRC, my level was 79 when I started to experience 'issues' and had my DR. do testing. It was down below 15 some 6 months later after leaving range and the old school vitamin & zinc regiment.

Follow the commonly known safe handling practices and you wont have a problem.
Have your DR. do testing when you go, if for nothing more than peace of mind.

Cheers, YV

[kryogen]

I have just had my blood test done, will know in 2 weeks or so I guess. Been told it's a little longer because it's done somewhere else.

[fredj338]

Wash your hands after shooting. No lie.

Unless of course, you know you won't wipe your eyes, pick your nose, or eat something like a candy bar before getting the residue off your hands later. Later is not good enough.

For some reason, few warnings mention how we most often transfer germs and such from our hands into our body. Guess nobody picks their candy bars up with their bare hands..... ;)
I often leave the wrapper in place & hold that. Still, you are right, washing your hands before eating or even touching your face, goes along way to reducing exposure. Also proper diet & exercise will help. I shoot every week, but outdoors. I shoot lead bullets almost exclusively, my lead level last year was 9.

[kryogen]

I often leave the wrapper in place & hold that. Still, you are right, washing your hands before eating or even touching your face, goes along way to reducing exposure. Also proper diet & exercise will help. I shoot every week, but outdoors. I shoot lead bullets almost exclusively, my lead level last year was 9.

Thats too high.

[mold maker]

9 is high for a CHILD, but not a big problem for an adult. 40 is the problem threshold for industry. Most none shooters, and none lead handlers, have a normal background level of 2-6. Lead is a natural occurring element, not a man made poison.

[kryogen]

Usa average is 1.5
thats 6x more than the national average.
industry doesnt base its norms on health. They dont really care if you are a bit sick or die sooner, you cant prove it anyway.

as for me, anything over the national average, in my book, is too high, and 600% the average, to me, is too high. You are doing something wrong at 9, you need to find and eliminate the issue.

[MT Gianni]

I have cast indoors for 20+ years. Lead level is 3.

[kryogen]

I have cast indoors for 20+ years. Lead level is 3.
That's really good.

Do you shoot at an indoor range?
Do you handle scrap wheel weights, smelt batches of scrap?

I'm starting to figure out that indoor ranges are the main cause. Been reading a few articles recently.