Looking for a 303 Brit mold- help

[retread]

I slugged the barrel on my newly acquired 303 British. 5 groove - hard for me to measure accurately but it looks to be about 316. Lee molds state 312 and Lyman 314. I realize these are dependent on alloy but I am nervous about buying a mold only to find out that it drops too small of a boolit to get good accuracy and lessen leading. Lee 8mm states 324 and Lyman 325. Problem with sizing down to 316-318?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, retread

[Bjornb]

I have 3 Lee Enfields, an 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53 and a P14 (Eddystone). Every one of them shoot well with the NOE version of the Lyman 314299. Hard to beat that bullet. PM me if you want me to send you some samples.

[runfiverun]

noe's 316299.

to measure a 5 groove slug you wrap it, measure the outside of the wrap, and deduct the wraps thickness x-2.
thin copper works the best for me, card stock works too.

[jugulater]

i have to second the NOE version of the 314299

i use it in both of my 1891 argentines, and both of my m91/30s. my favorite M91/30 has a .316 groove and it shoots the 314299 sized to .314 just as good as the other guns.

realistically you may need to get some samples of the NOE 314299 and the 316299 and see which one your gun likes better.

[retread]

noe's 316299.

to measure a 5 groove slug you wrap it, measure the outside of the wrap, and deduct the wraps thickness x-2.
thin copper works the best for me, card stock works too.

Thanks for the info. I will give that a try.

[retread]

I was wondering about coating with PC on a 314 to increase diameter by a bit. What are your thoughts on that approach.

[runfiverun]

it will make them thicker.
I dunno how much for sure or if the coat will be evenly distributed but it will generally add 1-2 thou.

[ukrifleman]

I slugged the barrel on my newly acquired 303 British. 5 groove - hard for me to measure accurately but it looks to be about 316. Lee molds state 312 and Lyman 314. I realize these are dependent on alloy but I am nervous about buying a mold only to find out that it drops too small of a boolit to get good accuracy and lessen leading. Lee 8mm states 324 and Lyman 325. Problem with sizing down to 316-318?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, retread

I use the 175gn Lee 8mm bullet, gas checked to .323 for my K98 and Berthier. I size it down to .314 for my Lithgow with no problems.
ukrifleman

[rsrocket1]

You can open up the mold cavity or simply "beagle" the mold. My Lee 312 mold drops at .315 with the copper tape. I then size them down to .314 with a push through sizer that I opened up to 0.314" using a dowel wrapped with wet/dry sandpaper. Shoots very well in my 91/30.

[leebuilder]

Plus 1 on Noe 316299. Other choise is beaglead lee 185gr.

[GhostHawk]

I've been using the Lee .312 185 gr beagled to .314, used thin alum tape.
While it may not be perfectly round, you don't have much invested into it if it doesn't work.

[retread]

What abrasive are you using on the 185 Lee to beagle? I use some toothpaste to smooth up some cavities on a Lee mold but I would think I would need something a little more aggressive to take .004 without spending a lot of time. Thoughts?

[runfiverun]

you'll lose too much squareness and such going .004
I have found .002 to be about the practical limit lapping out a mold.

the beagling process just opens the mold in one direction but it works well enough in the rifle at nominal cast velocity's to be worth the effort.

[Mike67]

ukrifleman are you able to seat that bullet so the gas check remains in the case neck or not? I put some dummy cartridges together and could not get them to chamber in my rifles.

[dondiego]

What abrasive are you using on the 185 Lee to beagle? I use some toothpaste to smooth up some cavities on a Lee mold but I would think I would need something a little more aggressive to take .004 without spending a lot of time. Thoughts?

Abrasive is not used in "beagling". Metal tape is applied to the mold blocks to increase diameter. See post #9.

[longbow]

Here's another vote for the NOE 316299. I have five Lee Enfields and all run about 0.314" groove with a little over 0.315" throat so I size to 0.315" with good results.

Also +1 on what R5R says about lapping if you are thinking of taking 0.004" out of a mould. I have gone as much as 0.003" and that was work. It is very difficult to maintain a round cavity when taking out much more than about 0.002" in my experience.

Beagling a Lyman 314299 might get you there but better is to go the NOE 316299 and if it is a hair small then Beagle that.

You might also want to get a larger expander button because when you go that large with the boolit and size the brass to normal neck size you will resize your boolits at seating, and work your brass a lot. I went with a Lee Collet die and made a 0.313" mandrel. Works great.

Larry Gibson pointed out that the Lee Collet Die can be used without a mandrel but I wasn't smart enough to figure it out. You just adjust until the neck is closed to the size you want.

Oh, another mould option just occurs to me too. Once you determine the groove diameter for sure, if it is larger than 0.316" then go to Accurate Moulds and Tom will make whatever diameter you need and beautiful moulds too!

Longbow

[dondiego]

When you are referring to a LEE collet die, is that the LEE Factory Crimp collet die?

[rsrocket1]

When you are referring to a LEE collet die, is that the LEE Factory Crimp collet die?

I think he means the Lee neck sizing collet die with the decapping rod.
I don't think there is a mandrel associated with the rifle FCD (at least not on the .308 and .223 FCD's I have).

[retread]

Here's another vote for the NOE 316299. I have five Lee Enfields and all run about 0.314" groove with a little over 0.315" throat so I size to 0.315" with good results.

Also +1 on what R5R says about lapping if you are thinking of taking 0.004" out of a mould. I have gone as much as 0.003" and that was work. It is very difficult to maintain a round cavity when taking out much more than about 0.002" in my experience.

Beagling a Lyman 314299 might get you there but better is to go the NOE 316299 and if it is a hair small then Beagle that.

You might also want to get a larger expander button because when you go that large with the boolit and size the brass to normal neck size you will resize your boolits at seating, and work your brass a lot. I went with a Lee Collet die and made a 0.313" mandrel. Works great.

Larry Gibson pointed out that the Lee Collet Die can be used without a mandrel but I wasn't smart enough to figure it out. You just adjust until the neck is closed to the size you want.

Oh, another mould option just occurs to me too. Once you determine the groove diameter for sure, if it is larger than 0.316" then go to Accurate Moulds and Tom will make whatever diameter you need and beautiful moulds too!

Longbow

I machine my own "M" dies for each of my rifles depending on slugging results and the diameter of the boolit intended. I usually go .001 under sized boolit. Lee crimp die with the carbide sizing ring have to be the worst idea ever for cast!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

PM sent on the Noe 316299

[Geezer in NH]

noe's 316299.

to measure a 5 groove slug you wrap it, measure the outside of the wrap, and deduct the wraps thickness x-2.
thin copper works the best for me, card stock works too.
Great idea thanks for that. I learn more here every day!

[JeffinNZ]

Don't foget CBE in Australia too. David has a large number of .303oulda on catalogue. I have 4 of them and all are great.

[redbullitt]

I use that GC NOE mold as well. Seems to shoot pretty well out of the enfield and mosin I have used it in!

[LuckyDog]

I'll ask here since I hope it is on topic......

Which would you recommend in the 31x299 mold; a Gas Check or Plain Base mold?

Why? (trying to learn)

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'll ask here since I hope it is on topic......

Which would you recommend in the 31x299 mold; a Gas Check or Plain Base mold?

Why? (trying to learn)
That will depend on what your shooting goals are.
thrifty plinking or faster hunting type loads.
the nice thing is, NOE makes those with mixed GC/PB cavities.

[Greg]

LuckyDog –

If your wanting inexpensive plinking loads under @ 1500 fps

a plain based boolit will work fine, with maybe Herco or Red Dot speed powders

alloys can be inexpensive also, range scrap would be fine only add tin if needed for mould fill-out

[10x]

noe's 316299.

to measure a 5 groove slug you wrap it, measure the outside of the wrap, and deduct the wraps thickness x-2.
thin copper works the best for me, card stock works too.


i have to second the NOE version of the 314299

i use it in both of my 1891 argentines, and both of my m91/30s. my favorite M91/30 has a .316 groove and it shoots the 314299 sized to .314 just as good as the other guns.

realistically you may need to get some samples of the NOE 314299 and the 316299 and see which one your gun likes better.

you can't really go wrong in a 303 with a NOE 316299 in 303 brit. The barrel will size the bullet to the bore.

[dodgyrog]

noe's 316299.

to measure a 5 groove slug you wrap it, measure the outside of the wrap, and deduct the wraps thickness x-2.
thin copper works the best for me, card stock works too.
316299 agreed - sized to .315"
I sell a lot of these with a lot of positive feedback and repeat orders.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Retread; Before jumping off a cliff here, I see you have the capability to machine stuff, so You need to make a brass plug gage at .303 dia. and see if it fits in your bore. There is way too much criticism of British Rifles all having worn out barrels, oversize bores and chambers, and in my very condensed experience over the last 9 months I have to say I am not seeing it. Everyone I have looked at, 20+, in that time frame have been perfect. If the outside of the gun looks clean then chances are the inside of the barrel has been taken care of too.

If the .303 plug gage is a nice tight fit then the Bore is in fact probably .303. British 5 groove rifling was typically .005 deep on a side. which would mean your bore is .303/.313,,, Just like mine is.

After you make the plug gage fit the bore ,,, if it takes more than one try, work up in .001 steps. When you get the actual bore dia. established then Measure with your calipers across the bore from a land to a groove. If you get a number like .308 then that means your groove dia. is .313 .303+.005 =.308. .303+.005+.005=.313. or what ever it comes out to.

If your barrel's crown is buggered you won't be able to get a good measurement so then slug the barrel and measure across a land and groove just like above.

Do this several times to make sure your measurements repeat. You only have an accurate measurement if you can get it to repeat 2-3 times in a row.

Unless your gun is a #1 Mk3 I would doubt the bore is worn any significant amount. None of the 5 groove #4's I have looked at had had worn bores. and they all were made at .303-.313 or very close to that.

The .314299 is a Bore Rider style boolit. there are two "fits" that have to be made with these boolits. The nose must fit the bore and the driving bands must fit the grooves or be a bit bigger. If a .316299 is what you need then your bore will be larger than .303 If your bore is in fact .303 and the grooves are deeper then you will have to size the nose portion as well and this can be a problem. I doubt this is the case.

My Lyman 314299 drops at .303 on the nose and .313-314 on the driving bands. This is a little smaller on the bands than I want but after the gas check is installed the bore seals just fine and accuracy with sorted boolits has become very good at <1" at 50 yards using 16 gr of 2400.

If your gun is a #4 Mk1 With a 5 groove barrel like mine is I would bet that if the bore is in good condition IE not rusted or pitted, then it will be on size. In order for a barrel to be worn much bigger there would have had to have been a bunch of use or neglect or both.

So before you spend a bunch of money on something you can't use,,, figure out exactly what you've got,,, then go from there.

Randy

[LuckyDog]

That will depend on what your shooting goals are.
thrifty plinking or faster hunting type loads.
the nice thing is, NOE makes those with mixed GC/PB cavities.

Mostly Plinking. I sorta shoot so I can reload, if that makes sense.
I am leaning towards a NOE mixed mold.



LuckyDog –

If your wanting inexpensive plinking loads under @ 1500 fps

a plain based boolit will work fine, with maybe Herco or Red Dot speed powders

alloys can be inexpensive also, range scrap would be fine only add tin if needed for mould fill-out

Thank you to both of you.
Now I need to decided two cavities or four. I it will be the mixed PB with GC mold.
I have jumped on the NOE group buy for the Ed Harris Mold (http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,617.0.html). I am ordering a four cavity 2GC/2PB. Thinking plinking and hunting. Again more plinking that anything.

I am very new to casting. Meaning, I haven't yet. I am gather the supplies though and reading and watching videos. I was watching a video and a couple of things the narrator said made me think, "That's not right!" "Castboolits says different!" :razz:

[longbow]

Yes, Lee neck sizing collet die. Works very well for me.

There is another make that has different neck sizing rings IIRC that Larry Gibson mentioned. Seems to me I looked it up and while a nice unit it is costly... at least compared to the Lee die.

I also anneal regularly and occasionally full length size but most of my .303's have the same sloppy chambers except one that is tighter.

The main reason for not using a "standard" sizing die is that they squish the neck down to suit factory spec bullets at 0.311"/0.312" and I am using 0.315"/0.316" so brass gets worked a lot by sizing down then stretching up.

The Lee die only neck sizes but that works for me.

Longbow