firebrick43
04-05-2015, 04:30 PM
Now to eliminate some controversy I perfectly understand some people views of carbide(straight) vs steel(tapered) sizing of 45 colt. I personally had decent service with lee carbide sizers. However the force required(dillon spray lubed) along with the hour glass look of loaded rounds, along with sloppy chamber fit, left me looking for some thing different.
Lee and a borrowed set of RCBS carbide dies sized the entire case to .471. The specs are .480. Saami drawings show the case straight but a tapered chamber. Some other threads have talked about individuals using older steel dies to get a tapered case. This thread is really not meant to continue on that discussion but simply give another choice and review of that choice.
Redding has a dual ring sizer, or older steel dies/RCBS cowboy(steel) have the taper. I don't know their specs as I have never measured one. Redding was out for me as it was 100$ just for the sizer. I was about to buy the cowboy dies but saw in an article that CH4D was offering TiN coating on their dies. As a machinist I am very familiar with TiN coating on inserts and drills. I have gone thru hundreds of thousands of dollars of tooling, some drills costing 800$ a piece, and therefore life and durability is very important. We test multiple tool geometry and brands looking for the lowest tooling cost per part(which is never the lowest tool purchase cost). Nearly 90 percent of our inserts are TiN coated. It improves life, finish, and minimizes issues in part geometry.
I decided that I wanted dies with a .473 neck and .479 base. This kept .452 bullets from being distorted. I called Dave at CH4D and he was very helpful and measured the dies as I waited. We then talked for 20 min about several things until another customer called and he had to go. The dies measured what I was looking for and I was stated a 4 week lead time (dies were on the shelf but had to be sent out to be coated). I also requested their speed seating die opposed to their standard die as a load on a 650 dillon and sometimes a bullet isn't set just right resulting in a little shaving or cockeyed bullet.
The dies took less than 2 weeks and cost 103 dollars for a three dies set(delivered).
the die rings are unimpressive, as most are to me, but I universally replace them with either dillon rings on their heads or hornady rings on the single stage press. The seater mandrel lock ring probably will be replaced with hex jamb nuts as well. The threads were cut well and the insides looks smooth and cut to correct specs.
The knurling was less than impressive. I have seen worse, even redding on occasion. I wish die manufactures would throw out pressure knurlers and use quick or Zeus cut knurling tools. But it doesn't affect function. The mandrels on the sizer and seater were chucked up and faced off on the top as my OCD wouldn't let it pass. Again, just appearance not function. I have done the same on other brands here and there.
Now as to function. They work well, giving me less sizing force (still use 3 squirts of dillon lube per gallon bag of brass). Many of the shells that are shoot in CAS only size a 1/2" at the top. You can tell when a shell from a hunting load shoot in my rossi comes thru as it's full resized and requires more force. Chamber fit is much improved in my ruger's and rossi's. They don't rattle at all anymore in the ruger's. I don't have to worry about an m die anymore either. The speed seater works as advertised as well. I have not used the ch4d belling die that comes with it as I use this set on a dillon and belling is performed with their powder funnel.
Cases are no longer hour glasses/wasp waisted and I imagine brass will last longer. This will be hard to quantify however.
Is the TiN coating worth the extra 45$?? To me yes but to some? Probably not.
136062
136061
Lee and a borrowed set of RCBS carbide dies sized the entire case to .471. The specs are .480. Saami drawings show the case straight but a tapered chamber. Some other threads have talked about individuals using older steel dies to get a tapered case. This thread is really not meant to continue on that discussion but simply give another choice and review of that choice.
Redding has a dual ring sizer, or older steel dies/RCBS cowboy(steel) have the taper. I don't know their specs as I have never measured one. Redding was out for me as it was 100$ just for the sizer. I was about to buy the cowboy dies but saw in an article that CH4D was offering TiN coating on their dies. As a machinist I am very familiar with TiN coating on inserts and drills. I have gone thru hundreds of thousands of dollars of tooling, some drills costing 800$ a piece, and therefore life and durability is very important. We test multiple tool geometry and brands looking for the lowest tooling cost per part(which is never the lowest tool purchase cost). Nearly 90 percent of our inserts are TiN coated. It improves life, finish, and minimizes issues in part geometry.
I decided that I wanted dies with a .473 neck and .479 base. This kept .452 bullets from being distorted. I called Dave at CH4D and he was very helpful and measured the dies as I waited. We then talked for 20 min about several things until another customer called and he had to go. The dies measured what I was looking for and I was stated a 4 week lead time (dies were on the shelf but had to be sent out to be coated). I also requested their speed seating die opposed to their standard die as a load on a 650 dillon and sometimes a bullet isn't set just right resulting in a little shaving or cockeyed bullet.
The dies took less than 2 weeks and cost 103 dollars for a three dies set(delivered).
the die rings are unimpressive, as most are to me, but I universally replace them with either dillon rings on their heads or hornady rings on the single stage press. The seater mandrel lock ring probably will be replaced with hex jamb nuts as well. The threads were cut well and the insides looks smooth and cut to correct specs.
The knurling was less than impressive. I have seen worse, even redding on occasion. I wish die manufactures would throw out pressure knurlers and use quick or Zeus cut knurling tools. But it doesn't affect function. The mandrels on the sizer and seater were chucked up and faced off on the top as my OCD wouldn't let it pass. Again, just appearance not function. I have done the same on other brands here and there.
Now as to function. They work well, giving me less sizing force (still use 3 squirts of dillon lube per gallon bag of brass). Many of the shells that are shoot in CAS only size a 1/2" at the top. You can tell when a shell from a hunting load shoot in my rossi comes thru as it's full resized and requires more force. Chamber fit is much improved in my ruger's and rossi's. They don't rattle at all anymore in the ruger's. I don't have to worry about an m die anymore either. The speed seater works as advertised as well. I have not used the ch4d belling die that comes with it as I use this set on a dillon and belling is performed with their powder funnel.
Cases are no longer hour glasses/wasp waisted and I imagine brass will last longer. This will be hard to quantify however.
Is the TiN coating worth the extra 45$?? To me yes but to some? Probably not.
136062
136061