Black Powder 45 Colt and 45 Schofield

[texaswoodworker]

I plan on getting a Uberti (Taylors) Cattleman in 45 Colt pretty soon, and I was wanting to get into shooting black powder more than I currently do. I had a few questions about these two cartridges though.

Is a grease cookie necessary for either of them, or could I go through 50 rounds without getting a heavenly fouled barrel or a significant loss in accuracy?

What kind of wad do I need? Would cardstock from wallyworld work, or do I need a fiber wad?

Is there anything else I could do to keep the gun running longer and keep it shooting straight during a shooting session?

I'd like to load these two rounds to full power BP levels. For the 45 Colt, I think the general consensus is that 35-38gr is pretty much as much as your going to get into a non balloon head shell. What is it for the Schofield?

[texaswoodworker]

Also, I was thinking of getting a LEE 452-255-RF for the 45 Colt and a LEE 452-200-RF for the 45 Schofield. How would these do with black powder?

[cajun shooter]

I've shot nothing but real BP in SASS for several years and at one time I tried the 45 Colt and shooting 45 Schofield out of my USFA revolvers.
You don't need any wads or lube cookies while shooting BP from a revolver. What you are hearing is talk related to the C&B crowd but the cartridge guns are very different in their needs.
As far as bullets go, you may want to lower the 45 Colt bullet to the 225 area and the Schofield to the 200 range.
If you are casting your own, I would look at the Accurate mold bullets as they have some good ones. I have used Tom's molds for about 7 years now.
The 45 Colt shoots good at a 33-34 grain load of 2F and the 45 Schofield uses about 27 grains IIRC. The problem with the straight sided cases is the blowby that you receive while shooting BP. You can anneal the 45 Colt cases and this helps some. If you are a hard core BP shooter then it's not all that bad. The fun you will have will far outweigh any cleaning time.
I shoot the 44wcf cartridge as it has a slightly smaller mouth area than at the rear of the case which allows the taper to seal off the chamber and stop all blowby. You don't get any fouling into the chamber or bolt area of the rifle which leaves just the barrel to clean.
The most important thing about shooting BP is to have a good lube that is made for BP. I use nothing but the NASA lube. You can shoot a 5 or 6 stage match and your cylinders are still spinning free, just like they did at stage 1.
If you are buying your bullets then a forum member known as Springfield Slim sells the BP style bullets.
If you would need more info, send me a PM as I can give you tons of help on how to prep your guns and what materials to use to have nothing but fun. Later David

[Dan Cash]

USFA does welll with black. My Uberti Schofield clone is good for about 12 shots with black. When it was redesigned to accept the .45 Colt, they streched the cylinder and eliminated the gas ring on the base pin. The BP fouling gets in there and quickly puts a stop to things.

A good BP lube that works for smokeless too is more or less equal parts by weight of bees wax and pure neets foot oil with a dab of lanolin. I use about 3 oz lanolin in an eight pound batch of lube. If neets foot oil is not handy, peanut oil, canola oil or plain vegetable oil will substitute with canola being the best.

[Toymaker]

" The fun you will have will far outweigh any cleaning time. " from Cajun Shooter - -

Disassemble, remove wood grips, dishwasher when the wife isn't home. Works for regular BP revolvers, muzzle loading rifle locks, etc. too. While you oil and reassemble the pistols run the dishwasher a second time to remove any residue.

VERY, VERY IMPORTANT = while the wife isn't home!!!!

[texaswoodworker]

I've shot nothing but real BP in SASS for several years and at one time I tried the 45 Colt and shooting 45 Schofield out of my USFA revolvers.
You don't need any wads or lube cookies while shooting BP from a revolver. What you are hearing is talk related to the C&B crowd but the cartridge guns are very different in their needs.
As far as bullets go, you may want to lower the 45 Colt bullet to the 225 area and the Schofield to the 200 range.
If you are casting your own, I would look at the Accurate mold bullets as they have some good ones. I have used Tom's molds for about 7 years now.
The 45 Colt shoots good at a 33-34 grain load of 2F and the 45 Schofield uses about 27 grains IIRC. The problem with the straight sided cases is the blowby that you receive while shooting BP. You can anneal the 45 Colt cases and this helps some. If you are a hard core BP shooter then it's not all that bad. The fun you will have will far outweigh any cleaning time.
I shoot the 44wcf cartridge as it has a slightly smaller mouth area than at the rear of the case which allows the taper to seal off the chamber and stop all blowby. You don't get any fouling into the chamber or bolt area of the rifle which leaves just the barrel to clean.
The most important thing about shooting BP is to have a good lube that is made for BP. I use nothing but the NASA lube. You can shoot a 5 or 6 stage match and your cylinders are still spinning free, just like they did at stage 1.
If you are buying your bullets then a forum member known as Springfield Slim sells the BP style bullets.
If you would need more info, send me a PM as I can give you tons of help on how to prep your guns and what materials to use to have nothing but fun. Later David

Why limit the 45 Colt to 225gr bullets? Do they just tend to be more accurate?

A little dirt and grime never hurt anyone. :D A little extra cleaning won't be a problem. I'm going into this knowing that I'll be doing a lot of cleaning. The fun's worth it. ;)

As for Lube, I was going to try Emmert's BP Lube. 50% Beeswax, 40% Crisco Shortening, and 10% Canola Oil.


USFA does welll with black. My Uberti Schofield clone is good for about 12 shots with black. When it was redesigned to accept the .45 Colt, they streched the cylinder and eliminated the gas ring on the base pin. The BP fouling gets in there and quickly puts a stop to things.

A good BP lube that works for smokeless too is more or less equal parts by weight of bees wax and pure neets foot oil with a dab of lanolin. I use about 3 oz lanolin in an eight pound batch of lube. If neets foot oil is not handy, peanut oil, canola oil or plain vegetable oil will substitute with canola being the best.

That's a shame about the Uberti Schofield. I'll have to remember that if I ever decide to get one some day.


" The fun you will have will far outweigh any cleaning time. " from Cajun Shooter - -

Disassemble, remove wood grips, dishwasher when the wife isn't home. Works for regular BP revolvers, muzzle loading rifle locks, etc. too. While you oil and reassemble the pistols run the dishwasher a second time to remove any residue.

VERY, VERY IMPORTANT = while the wife isn't home!!!!

What wife? :D

[StrawHat]

As loaded by the Arsenal, the cartridge used in the Colt and S&W revolvers used a 230 boolit and black powder. This may be the reason Cajun Shooter suggested the 225 weight. I use 260 grain boolits (L454190, L454424 and Lee 45-255) with black powder and find them to be good shooting. I also use lighter boolit (L452423) and black powder on occasion.

BP and 45 caliber pistols is a lot of fun. Enjoy yourself.

Kevin

[cajun shooter]

I took the time to try and give you a very good answer from my experience in shooting the 45 Colt in SASS matches and then you want to point out that my bullet weight selection is wrong. UNREAL!!
That was only because of being able to shoot faster follow up shots so that they don't have to time you with a sundial. Why not shoot some 275 grain also.
As far as cleaning goes you also had some extra to add to my posting about that.
The real truth is that if you use the correct products and it's not a DISHWASHER, the cleaning of BP guns after a match is just as fast or faster than cleaning those other guns. Have fun

[cajun shooter]

As far as the USFA guns doing well with BP, they did. I had two sets of them. One in 45 Colt and One in 44wcf. I came down with some very serious health problems and had to sell over 35 guns to help my wife and I pay bills and buy food in 2012 until the beginning of this year. Both sets of USFA 's were tuned for SASS by Jim Finch aka Long Hunter who is now retired. He set up all of his BP guns with a .007 cylinder gap to the barrel.
I now shoot the Uberti Smoke Wagons and I set the Cylinder gap to .007 on those myself.
I can't understand why Uberti does such a fine job of building it's guns, some are better than the originals and then modify the Schofield revolvers to where they will only shoot smokeless. These revolvers would sell to the BP shooters in SASS if they didn't have this problem. It's well known among all the BP shooters to stay away from these guns, that is a real shame. I would of purchased a set years ago if they were capable of firing BP. Later David

[Knarley]

Also, I was thinking of getting a LEE 452-255-RF for the 45 Colt and a LEE 452-200-RF for the 45 Schofield. How would these do with black powder?
I've been shooting the 452-160-RF from LEE for years, works well out of both. The Schofield is basically a "Colt short" and more of a bother to mess with. I have a pair of "Richards" Conversions I was going to shoot them thru...........but decided it wasn't worth the hassle. The 160 gr. from LEE also work well running through my Marlin.

Knarley

[texaswoodworker]

I took the time to try and give you a very good answer from my experience in shooting the 45 Colt in SASS matches and then you want to point out that my bullet weight selection is wrong. UNREAL!!
That was only because of being able to shoot faster follow up shots so that they don't have to time you with a sundial. Why not shoot some 275 grain also.

Who said anything about anyone being wrong? :confused:


As far as the USFA guns doing well with BP, they did. I had two sets of them. One in 45 Colt and One in 44wcf. I came down with some very serious health problems and had to sell over 35 guns to help my wife and I pay bills and buy food in 2012 until the beginning of this year. Both sets of USFA 's were tuned for SASS by Jim Finch aka Long Hunter who is now retired. He set up all of his BP guns with a .007 cylinder gap to the barrel.
I now shoot the Uberti Smoke Wagons and I set the Cylinder gap to .007 on those myself.
I can't understand why Uberti does such a fine job of building it's guns, some are better than the originals and then modify the Schofield revolvers to where they will only shoot smokeless. These revolvers would sell to the BP shooters in SASS if they didn't have this problem. It's well known among all the BP shooters to stay away from these guns, that is a real shame. I would of purchased a set years ago if they were capable of firing BP. Later David

It is odd that they would do that. Hopefully they'll rectify that issue in the future.

[texaswoodworker]

I've been shooting the 452-160-RF from LEE for years, works well out of both. The Schofield is basically a "Colt short" and more of a bother to mess with. I have a pair of "Richards" Conversions I was going to shoot them thru...........but decided it wasn't worth the hassle. The 160 gr. from LEE also work well running through my Marlin.

Knarley

I mostly want to shoot it just for the heck of it. :D

[texaswoodworker]

That was only because of being able to shoot faster follow up shots so that they don't have to time you with a sundial.

I'm not into CAS yet, so this is just for plinking. It'll probably be awhile before I can get into it. The closest club is unfortunetly a decent drive away, and I don't exactly have a great set up yet. I have a 44 mag Rossi 92, a .44 Brass framed Remington 1858, and a 45 Colt Uberti on the way. I don't even have a suitable shotgun yet. (Gonna pick up a Stevens 311 12GA eventually). If I can, I'll probably go to a shoot or two just for the fun. Eventually, I hope to get a dedicated setup in 44-40 WCF or 44 Special.

[StrawHat]

If you are just going to plink, why not shoot a lighter bullet to save lead? The 45 long Colt has been loaded with everything from round ball (147 grains) to 330 grain boolits, all over blackpowder. I try to keep things simple and only use one or maybe two loads for each revolver so I do not have to play with the sight picture. Most of my loads for the 45 long Colt use a 260 grain boolit but I do have some with the Gould boolit and have played with the round ball. Neither are perfect enough to displace the original loading.

Kevin

[Knarley]

If you are just going to plink, why not shoot a lighter bullet to save lead? The 45 long Colt has been loaded with everything from round ball (147 grains) to 330 grain boolits, all over blackpowder. I try to keep things simple and only use one or maybe two loads for each revolver so I do not have to play with the sight picture. Most of my loads for the 45 long Colt use a 260 grain boolit but I do have some with the Gould boolit and have played with the round ball. Neither are perfect enough to displace the original loading.

Kevin
I been thinkin' 'bout that roundball load. Spoze it would cycle through a Marlin? That would save even more lead than them 160 grainers I been shootin. Might be kinda fun for a match just for the heck of it.
Knarley

[Washington1331]

" The fun you will have will far outweigh any cleaning time. " from Cajun Shooter - -

Disassemble, remove wood grips, dishwasher when the wife isn't home. Works for regular BP revolvers, muzzle loading rifle locks, etc. too. While you oil and reassemble the pistols run the dishwasher a second time to remove any residue.

VERY, VERY IMPORTANT = while the wife isn't home!!!!

Excellent advice, just make sure that you have the heat dry in the off position or you'll get a great introduction to the wonderful world of corrosion.

[prs]

Texaswoodworker,

Forget grease cookies and all that fuss. Use real honest to goodness black powder. Use real honest to goodness black powder lubes, use boolits that were designed for black powder. In you light weight pistol, the traditional Ideal/Lyman 454190 is a good original type boolit. Your modern made pistol may begin to bind within 50 rounds because the cylinder to barrel gap may be set to smokeless specs. If you use Goex that is highly likely. Even Shuetzen might begin to bind. If you get a PRS 454-250-RF your pistol will shoot even the crappiest of real BP without binding or foul-out until your arms drop off. There are versions of that boolit by Accurate and NOE, the original type via BigLube Bullets. Plinking for me is done with down loads. I load similar to what Cajun listed for Schofield and use Quaker Quick Grits as a filler to get modest compression of the charge. I use the 45 Colt case with 250gr boolit because that is my pet boolit, but 230gr is a better plinker because it shoots as well, kicks less, and conserves some lead. That way you get a near duplication of authentic Schofield round in the Colt case that fits your cylinders without the "jump" you would get with the shorter case. No dishwasher for me, I use hot soapy water and bristle brush, followed by patches. Once in a while I used the old Cavalry method of removing grips and dunking in scalding hot soapy water and use of bristle brush in bore and chambers, old toothbrush on exterior. I add a good dash of Ballistol to the scalding water to prevent flash rust and I promptly oil the innards and lightly coat the exterior. Heck, it is quicker to do than write-up. If you shoot rifle in 45 Colt, you have some tricks to learn. That is what the PRS boolit was/is all about; fast, close, extended shooting with 45 Colt in rifle without fouling out even with crappy powder. Recently others have refined my boolit to perform better at 100 yards and further. Cajun can help Ya there if he wishes or see Jack Christian for advice; I am not a long ranger.

prs