Loading .311 125gr bullets for Jungle Carbine?

[tbx-4]

Formal greetings on my first thread... Hello the camp!

I've read somewhere, about loading the 123-125 grain AK/SKS bullets in .303 British with a light charge for the No5 Jungle Carbine....

I have H335, IMR 4895 & 4064 powder available.

Anyone have experience doing this?

John

[Huffmanite]

Should work in a .303. Sorry, I've only reloaded my 7.65x53 Argentine with the .310 123/125 bullets. Are you sure its .311 you're using? The .310 Bullet fit loose in my brass. Used a Lee crimp die for a 30 cal cartridge to very slightly reduce neck diameter before seating my bullets. This solved my problem, but the Accuracy wasn't too good for me.

[tbx-4]

Your are correct, they are .310.

I haven't tried it yet. Looking to glean from the experience of others... What I remember reading was the accuracy was pretty good. I'm sure that will depend on many things such as overall barrel condition, crown, throat.... etc. I haven't slugged the barrel yet to get an idea of its actual caliber...

I'm new at reloading but have been reading all I can for the last couple years trying to acquire a working knowledge. I have everything to reload most common .30 cal ammo but I thought the .303 would be good to start since factory and surplus ammo is of limited supply.

A light load for the Jungle Carbine seemed like a good idea, 1. To decrease felt recoil; 2. The .310 125gr bullets are inexpensive.

[Adam Helmer]

tbx-4,

Welcome to the Forum. I have several Jungle Carbines and have loaded all sorts of jacketed and cast boolits in them. The 125 grain .310" jacketed (SKS) bullet may work in your JC. I had better results with a .311" 125 grain jacketed bullet and IMR4198 powder. I get better results with Cast Boolits in the 175-185 grain weight sized .311" or .312", depending on the arm, and 2400 or IMR4198 powder. I hope this helps.

Adam

[groovy mike]

Just for fun a long time ago when 7.62x39 was cheap I tried just pulling the bullet and dumping the powder in a primed 303 case and using the pulled bullet. That worked very well in my Enfields.

[tbx-4]

Adam Hunter,
What do you think of these bullets
http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14848-c34-g8-b0-p0-762_x_39_311_123_gr_SP___1000_ct.aspx

groovy mike,
That's kinda what I was thinking... a 7.62x39 bullet and load in the .303 case. Should be easier on the shoulder and maybe get the wife to shoot the Jungle Carbine too. Still researching this before I try it tho.

BTW, my rifle is not an original No5, it's a clone made from a sporterized Parker Hale No4 Mk1. It has a two groove barrel. The crown is fresh cut and it shoots HXP with pretty tight groups. Just the recoil can be brutal for smaller people like my wife.

[RogerDat]

Adam Hunter,
What do you think of these bullets
http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14848-c34-g8-b0-p0-762_x_39_311_123_gr_SP___1000_ct.aspx

groovy mike,
That's kinda what I was thinking... a 7.62x39 bullet and load in the .303 case. Should be easier on the shoulder and maybe get the wife to shoot the Jungle Carbine too. Still researching this before I try it tho.

BTW, my rifle is not an original No5, it's a clone made from a sporterized Parker Hale No4 Mk1. It has a two groove barrel. The crown is fresh cut and it shoots HXP with pretty tight groups. Just the recoil can be brutal for smaller people like my wife.

Be interesting to hear how this works out.
I'm a bit over 200# so hardly what one would call small and the military ball ammo recoil is if not brutal is darn sure not user friendly. :bigsmyl2:

[Larry Gibson]

Shot a bunch of AK/SKS 122 - 125 gr jacketed bullets in the .308W, '06, .303, 7.65 Argentine and the 7.62x54R. With the .31 cals the closer the groove diameter is to .311 - .312 the better they shoot. For plinking loads I use Unique, for a bit more I use 2400 and for full house I use 4895.

38 - 39 gr of the 4895 would be a good starting load with 43.5 gr being a max load under the 122 - 125 gr AK/SKS jacketed bullets.

Larry Gibson

[303Guy]

The two-groove barrel seems to have a simple taper throat of 1° included (0.5° per side) IRC and two of mine have nominal bores with the typical deep groove. The one is mint while the other is 'rust textured'. The latter shoots 180 gr Highland bullets very well indeed and those are .310. My third two-groove looks to be the same. Other two-grooves may have different throats. My point is, the two-groove barrel might like those 125 gr bullets. You have given me an idea!

You will have read to only neck size. I should imagine this to be important for accuracy with such a short bullet. I'd suggest using a tuft of Dacron (about ½ gr) to fill the case and position the powder.

[groovy mike]

My original jungle carbine kicks harder than full length Enfields! But a light load should tame it.

[303Guy]

Notice how the muzzle cone resembles a nozzle on a rocket engine? On a rocket engine it's the nozzle that develops the thrust!

Besides that, it's a light rifle with a short butt.

[tbx-4]

Thanks to everyone.

I put in an order of these
http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14848-c34-g8-b0-p0-762_x_39_311_123_gr_SP___1000_ct.aspx

We'll see how they work...

[leebuilder]

I have used them many times. 125gr hornaday is the best or ones with a flat base. Cant remember the loads i can look them up tomorrow if you wish. I used 4895 and h335. H335 is by far the best powder, use it for my target and hunting loads in 303s.
Rifles with a tight bore and good throat will launch them the best.

[chrispy]

I just went through this exercise with my martini Enfield carbine 303. Quick load gave a load o 39gn 2206h for 2424fps and about 25450psi. For interest sake I also ran 150 gn hornady sp and the result was again 39gn of 2206h for 2428fps and 33k psi. I am yet to shoot these for accuracy but feel pretty confident that my Martini will shoot them well.

[303Guy]

Rifles with a tight bore and good throat will launch them the best.I just so happen to have one such rifle and I do want to try 125's in it. It's a two-groove. But I'm looking for something closer to 3000 fps from it. I already have a good 180gr load for one rifle and a good 150gr load in another. It also so happens I can't get 180gr bullets so I'm hoping the 150's will work in my 180gr rifle. But 125's have intrigued me for a long time so I am quite keen on your results. If I could find just a few to test I would join in with the tests.

[Adam Helmer]

tbx-4,

Those 123 grain .311" jacketed bullets may work in your JC. At 14.24 cents each, you could get more shooting done by casting the Lyman #311467 175 grain semi-spitzer or the Lee .312 185 grain RN boolits ahead of about 14 grains of Unique.

The Lyman boolit drops from the mould at about .313-.314" and in some of my "Long Tooth" .303s, I shoot the boolit as cast with excellent results. I size most boolits for my .303s at .311" and a few others get .312". The "Long Tooth" rifles get boolits lubed and not sized. Hope this helps.

Adam

[leebuilder]

From my notes.
125gr Sierra and other 125gr i assume Hornday over 43gr H4895, looked it up its around 2650 fps
Same j bullits. Over 45gr,H335 @ 2710 fps.
They are both lower end of the wieght by Hornday book no 24.
I would of used then in my sporters, one was a 2 groove long branch. One comment,, "bad in No 5"
never went back to using them, but loaded at least 300, 125gr flat base Sierra. Last load i made was in 91.
Be safe
i believe alot of the accuracy is related to the amount of bullit surface.area that accually engages the rifling. Flat base having a chrumb more surface area than a boat tail. It effects stability as well. Just how I see it

[runfiverun]

my 2 groove full length rifle likes the sierra 150's just fine at 311 diameter over imr 4895 powder.
you guy's getting the adi powders should be able to find a good load with the hodgdons equivalent or a step slower powder. [4064/varget] here.
the sierra line generally has a bit softer/thinner jacket and they will bump up a bit in a slightly larger barrel and still shoot well.
I drag the old girl along on a deer hunt every now and then and wouldn't hesitate to take a 200+ yd shot on a standing deer with it using the open sights.

[tbx-4]

Those 123 grain .311" jacketed bullets may work in your JC.

The bullets in the link above are plated not jacketed... They recommend not to go over 1900 fps. But that's OK, I'm really trying to develop a light load.


At 14.24 cents each, you could get more shooting done by casting...

I'm working up to casting... from what I've seen, these plated bullets are on the less expensive side...
In time I hope to be casting my own bullets.

[Ken in Iowa]

Prior to casting my own, I used some 125 bullets in Mosins with 4895. They worked well.

Later I used Hornady .312 100 gr XTP pistol bullets with 4227 at about 2200 FPS. These were excellent in numerous Mosin rifles. For the 303, I suspect the same concept would work well with 2400 powder.

Of the powders you listed as having on hand, 4895 is probably the best choice with the 1900 FPS limitation of the plated Berry bullets. If you can find a can of Unique, you might be better off.

When you want to move to casting, you will find excellent advice here.

[nekshot]

recently I had 3 hornady 310 sst bullets for the sks laying loose on bench so I thought lets try these in the jungle carbine. I think I used 40 some grain of H4895 if I remember and I shot the 3 at 80 yards. Walked down and had a 1/2 inch hole! I will not shoot another one for fear of losing the nice warm feeling of seeing all 3 in a big hole. Ignorance can be bliss sometimes!

[Geezer in NH]

My #5 has a .303 bore and shoots .314 cast great

[tbx-4]

Update: Received plated boolits last week and my .303 Lee Loader this week.
Today I loaded up 20 rnds in this config: 123 gr .311 boolits, 22 gr H4895, OAL 2.776", loaded in HXP brass once fired in Jungle Carbine clone.


Went out back and quickly shot a few on the home range at 60 yrds off hand. Recoil felt like an AR firing 5.56, very mild. Hit 8" plate no problem... didn't have time to set targets and bench at 100 yrds. Got a bunch of work to do around here this weekend so don't know when I'll get a good accuracy report. Looking to buy a chronograph for better feedback... Even though these plated boolits are rated at 1900 fps max I hope to push them up to 2000 fps. We'll see...

Here's what they look like compared to standard MkVII ammo.
137187

Here's my Jungle Carbine clone made from a Parker Hale No4 De Lux sporter... It started life as a 1942 No4 Mk1 Maltby with two groove barrel.
137191
137195