Guide to making percussion caps

[Idz]

I compiled the methods folks used to make their own percussion caps into a guide of how I do it. You may find this pdf useful.

[ofitg]

Very nice drawings, IDZ!

Do you have any interest in making/selling the cap-forming tool?

[n.h.schmidt]

I looked at it. I find it all perfect as to what is done to make good working percussion caps. Well done.
n.h.schmidt

[pworley1]

Thanks for sharing.

[waarp8nt]

Looks like a perfect project for the old South Bend 9" lathe. I got too many irons in the fire to start right now, but a good project for those days when work cannot be done outside. Thanks for the post!

[Gtek]

Very nice and in "The Library". Thanks

[Theditchman]

Very nice indeed...There was a chap on here making sets but I cant find the link..I would like a set myself

[longbow]

Very nice indeed! Thanks for sharing. I may just make up a set to try out. I don't shoot much BP anymore but it never hurts to be self sufficient where you can be. Plus it is satisfying to make your own "stuff".

Longbow

[Idz]

MannyCA makes a version like the Tap-O-Cap but its not press mounted. I prefer press mounted forming tools since my hands get arthritic with too much hammer pounding.

[koehlerrk]

Very nice, thank you for sharing.

[n.h.schmidt]

Press mounted is the better way to go. The production rate is better by far and easy on the hands. It is possible to Jam it up though. Incomplete strokes and partial cut outs. Clearing the jams is easy if you stop in time. I have probably made a couple of lifetimes worth of cups in the last year.
n.n.schmidt

[wicket]

I compiled the methods folks used to make their own percussion caps into a guide of how I do it. You may find this pdf useful.

Idz,

If you set get your cap hulls flush in the paint stick holder, you can make a sliding cover that matches the holes in your holder. When offset from the holes that hold the caps, the slide can be quickly filled with powder, excess powder brushed off, and the slider pushed forward to align with the caps, dropping the individual powder charges into the caps. Controlling the thickness of the slide will allow you to control the volume of the powder charges.

Wicket

[Texantothecore]

I compiled the methods folks used to make their own percussion caps into a guide of how I do it. You may find this pdf useful.

An excellent write up. Thanks.


You might want to download this one it is very good.

[lobogunleather]

Absolutely ingenious! I am impressed.

[toot]

great way to make them.

[Idz]

Musket capmaker
here are my drawings of a musket capmaker.
218698
218699
218700

I increased the loading to 1/2 gr of 4Fg powder and punched the rollcaps with a 1/4" paper punch with the sensitive dot off center so it gets impacted by the hammer.

[jdfoxinc]

.22reloader.com not hard to operate it on a single stage.

[WinchesterColt]

Where do you guys find the German caps these days? I see that the "Legends" are German - are there others? It appears Walmart is all out and nothing much is coming up on searches except for $50 clumps. One $3 pack would last me years.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Where do you guys find the German caps these days? I see that the "Legends" are German - are there others? It appears Walmart is all out and nothing much is coming up on searches except for $50 clumps. One $3 pack would last me years.

If you are close to where I live I have some extras I will give you , just let me know what you are looking for .
send me a pm

[WinchesterColt]

Flint - Thank you for the offer! I don't know if you'd call Hillsboro close, but it is closer than a lot of other places. And I do make it out your way now and then.

I'm just getting into BP and finding every step of the way a challenge. Caps are scarce so I've got a cap maker coming. Now I find the roll caps aren't readily available either. Aargh

I think I'll have everything so I can shoot, except for a powder flask and measure. But those don't seem to be a problem. I just haven't figured out yet which is the best.

Anyway, if you've got a roll or two I'm happy to pay you for them.

[FLINTNFIRE]

You are not that far away just over a hour , I have some 100 count tins of percussion caps number 11 , store here in town has the CCI number 11 and number 11 magnums for about $6 a hundred , no roll caps , am going to get a few musket nipples for rifles as I have musket caps .

Are you shooting rifle or pistol ?

[rbuck351]

I have been using the primer cup from 209 shotgun primers. I made a punch to flatten the firing pin dent and taper slightly to make a snug fit on a nipple. They are fairly thick so they don't blow apart on a percussion revolver risking a chain fire.

I tried the plastic toy caps that are in a circle by just forcing them on the nipples but that resulted in a chain fire. Sometimes I don't think far enough ahead. I was surprised that I didn't get a lot of lead splattered around from the cyls that weren't aligned with the barrel.

[WinchesterColt]

Flint - yeah, about an hour is right. When I head north into Washington I generally go up the Oregon side through Longview. Shoot? Hah! Haven't shot anything yet! Still collecting the parts and pieces. Of course I've put way more attention on getting guns than I should have, so now I have several different guns to feed: two Italian 44 revolvers, an ROA, a .50 TC Hawken and a .58 Enfield. I think that about covers the gamut of cap sizes.

rbuck - the chain fire didn't damage the gun? Seems like it would be super dangerous.

I've done crazy stuff like that before - get an idea and go for it. I'd like to think I've gotten a little smarter in my old age...

[FLINTNFIRE]

I played around with chain fires when I was a teen seeing what and how , no damage to gun , I to have 58 muskets and 44 and 36 pistols , 50 cal rifle and 45 flinters , almost picked up a ROA but it was stainless so I passed .

[rbuck351]

No, there was no damage to the gun. That and the fact here was no damage to me really surprised me. I was aware of the possibility of a chain fire from the front of the cyl but the thought of it happening from the back never crossed my mind. I'm thinking maybe more are caused from the back than one might think. Loose or damaged caps or wrong size perhaps. I'm not going to play with this idea as it sounds like a good way to ruin a gun and some body parts.

I probably should leave some of my experiments to others but I get an idea and just can't leave it sit.

[Caswell Ranch]

No, there was no damage to the gun. That and the fact here was no damage to me really surprised me. I was aware of the possibility of a chain fire from the front of the cyl but the thought of it happening from the back never crossed my mind. I'm thinking maybe more are caused from the back than one might think. Loose or damaged caps or wrong size perhaps. I'm not going to play with this idea as it sounds like a good way to ruin a gun and some body parts.

I probably should leave some of my experiments to others but I get an idea and just can't leave it sit.

Most chain fires are from rear flash over , poor fitting caps, poor fitting caps with spilt powder from loading. Would have to have way undersized round ball to be front end flash over, that said I have only seen one chain fire (on video) in many years, I have shot close to 50k percussion revolver shots and so far not had it happen (now I've said that).

[ofitg]

I probably should leave some of my experiments to others but I get an idea and just can't leave it sit.

Back in 2003, a group called "Brimstone Pistoleros" posted an experiment which is worth passing along. Their website is long gone, but the archived report is still available (unfortunately, no photos, the images were not archived) -

https://web.archive.org/web/20181123055701/http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/articles/capping.html

Using a percussion .44 revolver loaded with a round ball and 28 grains of powder, they forced one chamber to fire out-of-battery. The velocity of the ball was measured at 146 fps, which works out to 7 ft-lbs of energy.

[Ohio Rusty]

There is an advertiser in the back of Back Woodsman that has percussion cap makers for sale.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[crandall crank]

Great set of plans for percussion caps. I've had a buddy build a whole set of gas check dies using Idz's other plans. My question is: why use two layers of soda cans in making the percussion caps? I can source 0.005" thick, dead soft aluminum for less than $10...or could a person use the same aluminum flashing used in the gas checks (Amerimax 0.0078")? Just wondering before we build it and have to "re-build" it since we are using a different thickness material.

[TheOutlawKid]

The roof flashing is way to stiff...doesnt make good caps on the cap maker. The 36 gauge/.005 aluminum works good but is a little too weak as the caps back end gets destroyed (practically desintegrated) losing all pressure that could have been pushed into the nipple cone. Doubling up helps. The best that i have ever used is the .005 copper sheets that come in a roll at Hobby Lobby. Makes the best cap hulls i have ever used. They also have brass in .005 and it works great too only its a bit stiffer than the copper.

[Newtire]

A lot of your effort and time went into this whole post, apart from making the tools. Thank you!

[crandall crank]

Just recently had a percussion cap maker fabricated. Great set of plans and much appreciated. I have used your plans for not only the percussion cap, but also for a set of gas check makers.

You kept alot of us from having to re-invent the wheel. Thanks

[Greenman]

Your guide is flawless!!
I viewed a thread about using the compound sold as "Prime All" and was amazed at how many people forwarded a guess as to what the chemicals were. They were all wrong. This mixture is well known to pyrotechnicians as a shock sensitive mix used in the past to manufacture thrown torpedoes such as "Silver globe salutes". They were as load as a real M-80 and have been banned for very many years. The chemicals in the set are: Potassium Chlorate, Antimony Trisulphide, Sulfur and gelatin. The oxidizer being the chlorate and the fuels are the antimony and the sulfur with the binder being gelatin powder. One gentleman suggested mixing by weight rather than volume and he quotes a Frankford Arsenal formula for FH42, a primer mix. he was spot on by using weight. The formula is:
Potassium Chlorate 47.2
Antimony Trisulphide 30.83
Sulfur 21.97
Gelatine +7.0
The numbers are in % by weight plus added binder. If you wish to make this mix the buy Potassium Chlorate, Sulfur and Antimony Trisulphide from a pyro chemical supplier. You want acid free rubber maker sulfur and the antimony must be pyro grade( not Chinese needles or Stibnite which are both too corse). The grade of Chlorate doesn't matter but it should be powdered vs. granulated. For the binder used Knox unflavored gelatin powder from the supermarket. The solvent to use is Isopropyl alcohol 70% as the 30% water works very well to dissolve the binder. You can also use 91% Isopropyl.
One caveat is PLEASE dear God keep the quantities small. This is a VERY powerful explosive and handled carelessly could result in fatal results if the amount is large enough. One major safety rule I have learned over the years is to assume an accident will happen and therefore plan all activity to minimize the problems that will occur when it happens because you can not prevent all accidents with 100% assurance but you can mitigate the damage done.
BTW this mixture used with your awesome manual is producing 100% reliable caps. The bit about the hairspray is bloody brilliant.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and craftsmanship.

[n.h.schmidt]

I have used the Prime-All and Fa-42 formula.They both work and are powerful. So the so called binder in the Prime-All is geltain. I had thought it was Dextrin. In any case It is not doing the job. Most who follow the directions end up with a crumbled charge that falls out of the cup.It did for me and many others. Some have given up because of this. There are several binders that do work. Acetone and Duco Cement is popular. I like to use Shellac flakes and denatured alcohol. I have also use Elmers white glue much thinned in water. All have worked and stick the charge into the cups. I work in small amounts .About what it takes to make 25 caps. I also mix using water. That's as safe as I know to make it.
n.h.schmidt

[Duckdog]

I guess I am confused. Besides the binder, it is essentially H42 if I am not mistaken, and H48 without the glass and binder, if one chooses to use glass in it. Most of us have been saying that is what was in the kit since this got brought up many moons ago. Are you saying it is something besides that, and if so, what might it be? I stand behind the statement that it is H42, regardless of the binder.

[trapper9260]

I make my own caps and there was a a tool if I remember it was call cap o matic it is like the one of the OP . I load for my side hammers 50 cals and 58 cal rifles . I use 2 caps in one and then I load 2 of the roll caps. You can get them at Cabelas since Walmart stop selling them . As long in the back said made in Germany , There is some made from China do not get them they are not made as good and will get alot of bad ones out of a roll. I put 2 punch out caps or cut them out in the cap then I put 325 mesh magnesium in and then 2 more of the caps. Then I take the nipple off the rifle and put the powder I use in it in the hole of the nipple is and put the nipple back in and then I put the cap I made and fire. What I found is if you have the cap right up to the powder you will have it go off with out any problem . If it is not then you need a extra I call booster. that is why I put some powder under the nipple on the side hammer rifle. I got the magnesium from a pyro supply There was one at a gun show I had went to. I do use soda cans to make the caps like was stated . It works for me .I also do primers for pistol and rifle and shotgun . some are load different then other the one thing they all have in common is the roll caps that is used .

[Mr_Sheesh]

For darn certain, if making ANY Chlorate / Sulphur primer mixture, do these things:

Make tiny batches, as Greenman said. A tablespoon is getting towards being plenty large enough to hurt you badly, so consider smaller than that.

Wet the Chlorate, and separately wet the Antimony Trisulphide / Sulphur part (It'd be OK to mix those before wetting those two.)

DO NOT mix dry Chlorates with dry Sulphur or Antimony Trisulphide , you want them all wet so they don't explode in your face. I'd make sure all of it's a thick syrup, no dryer. Better a little more drying time than losing fingers, hands, eyes, hearing...

And yep be paranoid, assume that this stuff IS trying to explode on you, so don't give it a reason or excuse.

Before I turned 18 I made a bit of this sort of "fun toy", decided to stop though, learned what I needed to learn.

(Guy I know was disposing of a somewhat moist cup by volume of a similar compound by picking some up with a wire loop and putting it in an alcohol lamp's flame; Foom! each time. Indoors, at night. He got 90% of it burned up, but then didn't let the wire cool enough ONCE, and BOOM, blew up the glass jar he was holding in his left hand. He just got a few cuts, scared thoroughly, and his pride hurt badly, he was LUCKY. Be smarter than him... Please.)

[ofitg]

...... and the antimony must be pyro grade( not Chinese needles or Stibnite which are both too corse).


Here's an excerpt from Chamot's 1922 book, The Microscopy of Small Arms Primers -

https://i.imgur.com/9bXORBy.png

[contendernut]

Great post especially in these times. There have been lots of questions as to how to make your own caps and this has lots of great information. Thank to those who shared

[Duckdog]

I do not wet the mix when mixing. I wet it after putting it in the 22 LR brass, primer, percussion cap, etc. I use the diaper method for mixing it and do not feel unsafe in the least. As stated, I do not mix large amounts. Generally, I mix enough to reload 100 22 LR shells, percussion caps, or LR primers. I made a couple of scoops out of LR and SP primers, and that works out great for me.

There is a wealth of knowledge in the special projects forum where we hashed this over in depth with some of the best, in my opinion. Look for the sticky on the subject under that forum and read enough to get what I feel is enough info to safely do this and do it without fear. There are also plenty of videos that can be found easily that mirror the forum showing exactly how to do this. If one cannot overcome that fear, then they really should not do it. Just my 2 cents worth, for what that's worth!

[TheOutlawKid]

Oftig is very much correct about the antimony granulation. I have successfully made the mix many times...but the times it failed were due to the antimony granulation. The airfloat stuff wont work, i got some 325 mesh and it wouldnt work, sometimes would fizzle but thats it. Even tried it with chinese needle (about 200 mesh)...same thing. Both from a fireworks supply company. Then got a slightly larger granulation from a chemical supply company and still didnt work. I ended up mixing a 1:1 ratio of the chinese needle batch and the chemical supply company batch...mixed it up into FA-42 and it worked amazingly perfect. I had read the same info mr.Oftig posted and it made sense...the granulation ratio was extremely important for success.

[TheOutlawKid]

Oh and i wear a mask when doing this...just like when i make black powder...the airfloat powders get into your sinuses and causes the dark boogers. I noticed when i didnt wear a mask i could still smell the chemicals hours after i finished the project and washed up . the sulfur smell. Not sure if others experienced this. I assume it was from fine dust particles getting trapped in my sinuses.

[Shanghai Jack]

[QUOTE=TheOutlawKid;5116819]The roof flashing is way to stiff...doesnt make good caps on the cap maker. The 36 gauge/.005 aluminum works good but is a little too weak as the caps back end gets destroyed (practically desintegrated) losing all pressure that could have been pushed into the nipple cone. Doubling up helps. The best that i have ever used is the .005 copper sheets that come in a roll at Hobby Lobby. Makes the best cap hulls i have ever used. They also have brass in .005 and it works great too only its a bit stiffer than the copper.[/QUOTE

Speaking of copper - How does Remington get that "corrugated" look for it's caps?

[Idz]

More info on cap tests all-fire energies:
Rem #11: 2 oz@22"
rollcap + 1/4 gr 4Fg: 2 oz @ 17"
Prime-all: 4 oz @ 28"
F48: 4 oz @ 26"
F42: 4 oz @ 28"

the F42 mix: 8 gr S powder + 5.5 gr Sb2S3 (pyro powder) + 5.5 gr Sb2S3 (Chinese needle 200 mesh) + 0.5 gr NaHCO3 + 17 gr KClO3
it is a lot less sensitive than using rollcaps but I calculate my 1858 Navy revolver has hammer impact energy of about 121 inch*ounces so it works 100% with my F42 mix caps

[LAGS]

So far, F42 mix gives me the best performance

[n.h.schmidt]

Idz You give the relative power in inches. This is interesting to me How do you get this ? In my cap tester I can watch the nipple output and the hammer side at the same time. Many would be very surprised at how much power is lost on the hammer side of the nipple. I have tried many formulations to make percussion caps. Toy pistol caps .Up to 15 dots in the cup. Several attempts with matches. Toy pistol cap with black gunpowder. Of these the toy pistol caps with ten or more dots worked the best with my sidelocks shooting pyrodex. Best of all by far is the prime-all and FA-42. I don't know why the flame from this works better than anything else on pyrodex. Please note that these other formulations can work on revolvers with real black. The 22 reloader cap maker does work well and I have made thousands of cups with it. I also have a Forrester auto-cap maker from the 1900s .That is still good and works fine. I mostly use a doubled up pop can to make my cups.
Stay safe and mix wet I Do
n.h.schmidt

[LAGS]

Prime All is basically an F48 mix done by volume.
I found that it works better if you mix it by F48 ratios by Weight.
Three of the chemicals from Prime All will work to make F42 if mixed by Weight.
When I was very young , I use to use Mattel Greenie Stickum Caps for my primer material.
But back then, the Toy caps had a lot more power and made more noise.
But one dot in the primer cup got the gun to fire.

[Mr_Sheesh]

You could even 3d print the caps (I have not rounded the struck end of the caps yet, planned. Moving from this old machine to the good new fast computer.

#10 and #11 caps shown, thinking on musket caps next.

288656

And I suspect you could make cap drawing dies that would last a few caps worth, maybe, by 3d printing them? Possible but not ideal for perfectionists :)

I'd wear eyepro using plastic 3d printed caps but I suspect any good RSO would chew ANYONE out who didn't wear eyepro shooting metal caps, too!

[SeaMonkey]

When punching my Percussion Cap Cups from Aluminum Beverage Cans I simply fold the flattened aluminum can cutout over to double the thickness.

The double thickness makes quite a difference.

Quote from N.H. Schmidt:



I mostly use a doubled up pop can to make my cups.


Yep, it works real good!

[Idz]

For testing caps i drop the weight down a tube at various heights. For estimate hammer strike energy i assume the hammer is driven by a linear spring and calculate the rest spring energy and subtract it from the cocked spring energy.

[n.h.schmidt]

Idz Ok I understand now. Your test finds how much energy is needed to fire the caps off. You don't want that too light. What I would like to do is make a way to measure the cap output.That could be useful in itself.

[almar]

Prime All is basically an F48 mix done by volume.
I found that it works better if you mix it by F48 ratios by Weight.
Three of the chemicals from Prime All will work to make F42 if mixed by Weight.
When I was very young , I use to use Mattel Greenie Stickum Caps for my primer material.
But back then, the Toy caps had a lot more power and made more noise.
But one dot in the primer cup got the gun to fire.

I found that measuring by weight gives better results too, i add a small amount of aluminum powder for additional sparks. I use 0.005 brass sheets I can find at the local hobby lobby for a few bucks, It does not disintegrate like aluminum some are even reusable, most importantly they form a great seal during the blast unlike my experience with aluminum, there is no black residue on my percussion revolver hammer. I compress the primall into the cup and used to add one drop of a 50/50 mix of acetone and duco cement.

Instead of duco cement, i now use a special glue i make for my combustible paper cartridges. I take a small 1cc scoop of smokeless powder and put it in a small sealable glass jar with acetone and leave it over night. The smokeless powder dissolves into a sticky goo, i add acetone and stir until i reach the desired consistency. this glue obviously burns up completely and forms a hard plastic that protects the mixture from moisture and keeps it in place, make sure its very liquid for percussion caps so that it permeates the primall. I like it thicker for cartridges.

edit:another thing i noticed is that when i fill the cup too much with mixture, its too much of a cushion sometimes, you can get that familiar misfire where you have to hit it again to fire. By adding a little less mix into the cup, i get a much better reliability. I cant remember when i last got a misfire with my caps...its way more common with CCI #11 than with my caps on slixshot nipples i find.

[Idz]

Commerical caps and primers specify a noFire and allFire energy using drop weights. It is only half the story since both energy and impact power are important but it gives them a convient test.

[n.h.schmidt]

First I have heard of using smokeless powder as a binder.I will give it a try sometime. I do use shellac flakes in denatured alcohol .Elmer's white glue in water and duco cement.All three work fine for me .I use mostly two layers of pop cans.I also have used .005 copper.I will get the brass and try that. For single shot side locks anything will work for the cups. For the revolvers,they are more demanding if you don't want cap jams. The brass must be a improvement.
I know that I have been making my caps too powerful for the revolvers. You don't need that much for them.

[Idz]

Some interesting drop test with EPH20 primer compound. First tests i filled the caps with EPH20, tamped it down, and then added a drop of ethanol/water to activate them. Both the musket caps and #11 caps required 4 oz@28" to detonate and blew the caps apart.
I then reduced the cap loading to 1 scoop from my modified SPP spoon (about 0.24 grains of EPH20), tamped it down, and then added a drop of ethanol/water to activate them. The reduced load caps were much more sensitive requiring only 2oz@16" to detonate. They also worked fine in my musket and kentucky pistol.

[Milky Duck]

I have heard of folks over here using the cap gun plastic caps for this purpose......cheap and work.... I do like the idea of making own percussion caps from scratch..... so have copied your how to link and shared it....far to good not to do so.

[hawkenhunter50]

Following along, lots of good info and ideas.

[ncmn]

Following along as well, as my cap maker is on order....

[indian joe]

I have heard of folks over here using the cap gun plastic caps for this purpose......cheap and work.... I do like the idea of making own percussion caps from scratch..... so have copied your how to link and shared it....far to good not to do so.

I just tried the plastic cap gun caps this morning - 100% no go (A CVA that I have zero problems with ordinarily)

- they just didnt have enough grunt to fire the charge - however - I used my flintlock primer to fill the nipple with FFFFpowder and then got 100% fired.

Been messing with an adaptor for 209 shotgun primers - was hoping to get away from the little screw on cap thingy that commercial adapters have but thats a no go - the strongest sprung lock I have is a mississippi rifle and the 209 on its own blew the hammer back to half cock and the primer out of its adapter socket - back to the drawing board there I think!

Last price I got on caps was around 20 bucks per 100 and likely going higher - thats some incentive for improvisation.

[Sasquatch-1]

- they just didnt have enough grunt to fire the charge - however - I used my flintlock primer to fill the nipple with FFFFpowder and then got 100% fired.




Just wondering how much of a delay did you have?

[indian joe]

Just wondering how much of a delay did you have?

you mean fffffttt ...............................bang ?
nothing noticeable - was only firing blank powder charges to test ---pull trigger - gun went bang
I pulled the nipple on a couple of the no fire events to check things and the powder charge was right there visible at the end of the nipple -- those toy caps just didnt have what it takes I think - I got plenty FFFF priming and the little brass dispenser flask. only takes a few seconds to top the nipple up before putting the cap on and every one of those went off .

I will modify a nipple for the plastic caps they a little smaller fit and occasional one splits - what I have came in pack of 144 and I think was two bucks

I bought a bagful of cheap roll caps but they so weak most of em wouldnt even fire ditched those - havent seen the good red ones for years.

[LAGS]

I use to use Toy Caps , and Rolls of caps for my primers that I made back in the 1980's.
But now the caps are really Week because people were afraid the the loud sound would hurt the kids ears.
Or parents just got tired of kids making so much noise.
And other people were afraid that the loud Toys could be mistaken for sounds of a real gun.
So I stopped using almost all toy caps in my primers back in the '90's.
But you can make them work like you said if you prime the nipple first with powder.

[Idz]

I've been wondering how the commercial outfits and the military test primers. So far haven't found any paper documenting it. Other papers usually assume the failures are randomly distributed about a mean value and use various statistical tricks to estimate minimum and maximum probabilities (Dixon, Bruceton, Probit, Logit, etc.). In Frost's book "Ammunition Making" he uses a weighted distribution but has no reference as to what its derived from. Often data are collected using a staircase or up-down technique to cluster data around 50% probability point to minimize extraneous data points. With the advent of computers there is software at http://www.neyersoftware.com/ that does iterative fitting. Anybody have any insights into how the DOD or commercial outfits do their testing?

[indian joe]

I've been wondering how the commercial outfits and the military test primers. So far haven't found any paper documenting it. Other papers usually assume the failures are randomly distributed about a mean value and use various statistical tricks to estimate minimum and maximum probabilities (Dixon, Bruceton, Probit, Logit, etc.). In Frost's book "Ammunition Making" he uses a weighted distribution but has no reference as to what its derived from. Often data are collected using a staircase or up-down technique to cluster data around 50% probability point to minimize extraneous data points. With the advent of computers there is software at http://www.neyersoftware.com/ that does iterative fitting. Anybody have any insights into how the DOD or commercial outfits do their testing?

messed up in a rendezvous match today due to a dud cap (CCI I think) first I remember having in years of shooting
cap took a good hit and didnt fire, thought I snagged the hammer or something, recocked - click again, tossed the dud cap, remember seeing the residue material on top of the nipple as I put a second one on but not paying attention properly - fired the second cap and drove that residue down into the lil hole at ta bottom - blocked him good, the newly replaced wire in my nipple pick was about a half thou bigger than the hole - man I had some aggravation clearing that thing, reading glasses left way back behind the firing line in my car, so anything within two foot of me nose is a blur anyway - and the boys wandering back to reload are offering helpful suggestions like "whyncha got somethin decent that works" or "would ya like to borrer me hammer - the big one" .....my first meeting with these fellers from the Le Enfield Rifle Association as they move into some blackpowder events as well as their main course ------ they are a special bunch and the comments that in many places could have been taken as nasty were all part of the fun - we had a great weekend

[Idz]

finally got to the range for some #11 EPH20 cap tests. 100% success with caps.
Kentucky pistol: 24 gr Goex 3Fg + 0.490 ball + 1 5/16x0.015 patch + Dixie Zip patch grease + homemade cap with 0.24gr EPH20. 10 shots all good no misfires or hangfires.
Pietta 1851 Navy: 24gr Goex 3Fg + Gatefeo lubed felt wad + 0.454 ball + EPH20 cap. 7 caps fired with 1 failure to ignite charge but examination showed plugged nipple.
Cap shells made with my capmaker from 2 layers of soda can aluminum
EPH20 made using Marshal's instructions. I used Win231 for the NC ground together with Harbor Freight ground glass (#63674) in ceramic mortar & pestle and then screened with 100 mesh screen. About 0.24gr of EPH20 was placed in the cap shell and lightly tamped down. Then 1 drop of 50:50 ethanol:water was added and allowed to cure overnight. No paper disk was used.
EPH20 solidifies nicely in cap and stays put. Upon detonation the EPH20 is completely consumed leaving no residue in the cap.
This seems like a winner for percussion caps. These 0.24gr EPH20 caps aren't quite as powerful as Remington caps but seem to ignite black powder with no problem.

[choctaw/creek]

This thread has been some really good reading and contains a great deal of information.

[Chill Wills]

Having not done this yet, I am all questions. Just doing the homework.
0.0078" copper sheeting is affordable enough. Would that be best as far as cup material goes? I get it.... I am a scrounger and have paid little for lead in my lifetime so I am on the same page with using beer or pop cans but I also am wondering what would be best. The CCI and such are made of copper.

[LAGS]

Copper sheeting is a little softer than the soda can material.
With my capper.
It sometimes tears the metal when doing the cups.
But if your capper is new , then it might work better.
But most of mine are made from two layers of aluminium cans.
Some brands work better than others.
So experiment a bit and see how each brand works for your capper.
I sometimes use .005 sheet brass in single layers.
It is a little harder so with my capper it too sometimes splits.
But the caps that come out are great.
But brass is a little more costly then copper.

[lead chucker]

I have been using the H-42 primer compound in my caps with really good results pretty much 100 % reliability Im very happy with it. Wish i would have known about it years ago. Easy to make and almost free. I made my own cap maker and if you dont count labor it was maybe $1.50 in steel. I think i used 4140 prehard that i had left over from some other projects. I use pop or beer cans doubled up for the cups. LAGS turned me on to the H-42 and i havent looked back since.

[BPSharps]

Awesome information and presented very nice. Thank you !

[lead chucker]

Go to Skylighter fire works and buy a pound of potassium chlorate and buy a pound of antimony trisulfide and some sulfur and you are good to go they will mail it to you and you have enough priming compound for you and 10 other people for the test of there lives and thats if they shoot every day. get or make a cap maker. You can make caps for next to nothing. They work. Go to aardvark reloading on line and learn how. Great info there on how to do it. I tried the roll caps and was not happy. I can make 100 caps in 20 minutes if i have the cups already made. its easy and they really work good. The components are pretty cheap i was all in for $50.00 and thats shipping to Alaska.

[lead chucker]

Its a no brainer to make caps its easy and you never have to buy them ever. And its legal to do. More guys and gals need to learn how to do it. Its also fun and rewarding to do. They make your gun go bang I can testify to that.

[LIMPINGJ]

Reading the aardvarkreloading formulas for FA42 and FA48 it list antimony sulfide but I see post that say they use antimony trisulfide.
Are these the same just using different names? Also which granulation are y’all using and which companies is best to order from?

[ofitg]

Reading the aardvarkreloading formulas for FA42 and FA48 it list antimony sulfide but I see post that say they use antimony trisulfide.
Are these the same just using different names? Also which granulation are y’all using and which companies is best to order from?

Yes, antimony sulfide/trisulfide are different names for the same thing.

The granulation of AS is not very important in the H48 compound, which includes ground glass grit to facilitate ignition.

The FH42 compound relies more on the AS crystals to serve as "grit". The U.S. Army's spec for AS granulation is presented in post #38 of this thread.

[LIMPINGJ]

Thanks for the clarification ofitg of the names. I see two mesh sizes being offered on the fireworks supply sites. A 325 mesh and a 200 mesh, which is the one to order if trying the FA42 formula?
Thanks

[ofitg]

Thanks for the clarification ofitg of the names. I see two mesh sizes being offered on the fireworks supply sites. A 325 mesh and a 200 mesh, which is the one to order if trying the FA42 formula?
Thanks

According to that old U.S. Army spec, 100-150 mesh would probably be ideal, but you may have to settle for 200 mesh..... it should work fine for percussion caps, which are much more "forgiving" than modern primers.
Personally, I prefer the H48 compound so I don't have to worry about the AS granulation.

[LIMPINGJ]

ofitg for the 48 formula how do you make the ground glass or do you purchase it?
Thanks

[LAGS]

Making H48 I just use the Prime all compound.
But I bet you can break up glass an grind it in a
Mortar and pestol ,then screen it.

[ofitg]

I just use crushed sand. For making percussion caps I have used sand as coarse as 40 mesh, but you would need smaller granulations for modern primers.

[Trapper-Jack]

I bought a mortar and pestle set off Amazon for like $10. I used it to grind up a broken up baby food bottle down to like flour consistency and used it for my H48 compound for CF primers. It worked fine there so it should work for caps. They say that a broken light bulb grinds down easier because of the thinner glass. For the binder I like the acetone (finger polish remover) with smokeless powder dissolved it it. So far I haven't had any of the primers or caps break down from handling or packing them around.

[Sasquatch-1]

ofitg for the 48 formula how do you make the ground glass or do you purchase it?
Thanks

I do not make my own caps. but I use to make stain glass panels. If you can find someone who works in stain glass, see if they will save you the slurry from their grinder. It will be a VERY FINE ground glass. Almost the consistency of talc.

[Idz]

For grit I bought some ground glass 40-70 grit from Harbor Freight. You can strain it through a 100 mesh screen to get finer size and grind it a bit smaller with a mortar and pestle.

[ulav8r]

Have not been following this thread but read it all just now. Last night I checked Dixie for caps and saw their cap maker. Then checked their primer material, they claimed a cost of about 1 cent for 22 rimfire but there was zero information about what the primer material was. It looked to be 3 components, does anyone know what it actually contains?

[LAGS]

I looked at Dixie's site.
That priming compound is the Prime All compound.
Which basically is H48 chemicals.
But you can use three of the 4 chemicals to make F 42 priming compound.
My suggestion with Prime All.
Mix the chemicals by Weight not by volume as they are in the instructions.
Mixing by volume Works.
But is so much better if you mix it by weight for either H48 or F 42 compounds.

[Dark Vaj]

Have not been following this thread but read it all just now. Last night I checked Dixie for caps and saw their cap maker. Then checked their primer material, they claimed a cost of about 1 cent for 22 rimfire but there was zero information about what the primer material was. It looked to be 3 components, does anyone know what it actually contains?
It's more than likely to be the H48 compound which contains, sulfur, antimony sulfide, potassium chlorate, and ground glass, a very well nice proven priming compound that works but it is corrosive after firing and firearms must be cleaned afterwards.

[Graysmoke]

Dark Vaj,
It is potassium perchloride, much more stable, good sulfur and antimony disulfide. They work great if mixed properly with few if any misfires. Been making caps for 2 years now. And yes corrosive but what is not when using BP or most of the subs. Just clean and oil.
Graysmoke

[LAGS]

Over the weekend , I made myself 700 #11 primer caps with F42 compound made from Prim All chemicals.
I am going to make some more primer caps.
But I have to cut up more soda cans since I ran out.
I made the primers several ways.
Some with single sheet of soda can material.
Several batches with double later of soda can material.
I also ran a lot of the caps three my punch set up that I made that sizes the outside a little smaller and squares off the top of the cap a little flatter

[Tracy]

Dark Vaj,
It is potassium perchloride, much more stable, good sulfur and antimony disulfide. They work great if mixed properly with few if any misfires. Been making caps for 2 years now. And yes corrosive but what is not when using BP or most of the subs. Just clean and oil.
Graysmoke

What are your proportions?

[LAGS]

The FH-42 mix that I use is,
47.2 % potassium chloride
30.83 % Antimony sulfide
21.97 % sulfur.
The compound works great and a little better than H-48 priming compound.

[Graysmoke]

LAGS,
I switched to alum. roof flashing tuff as nails. Had quite a few failures till I rub bees wax lightly across the metal then use the drill press as an arbor press. Wax is not greasy and only on the exterior Just enough not heavy.
Is the potassium chlorate or perchlorate, I was lead to believe it was the perchlorate in prime-all Thanks
Graysmoke

[Idz]

The FH-42 mix that I use is,
47.2 % potassium chloride
30.83 % Antimony sulfide
21.97 % sulfur.
The compound works great and a little better than H-48 priming compound.

I assume you mean Potassium Chlorate (KClO3) and Antimony trisulfide (Sb2S3) ?

[ofitg]

LAGS,
I switched to alum. roof flashing tuff as nails. Had quite a few failures till I rub bees wax lightly across the metal then use the drill press as an arbor press. Wax is not greasy and only on the exterior Just enough not heavy.
Is the potassium chlorate or perchlorate, I was lead to believe it was the perchlorate in prime-all Thanks
Graysmoke

Here's a handy little compilation of primer compounds, including H48 and FH42 -

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/priming-mixtures.58110/

[LAGS]

I have tried using the Aluminium roof flashing and still have plenty.
Like you said , it can be tough as nails.
For my chemicals,
I just use the chemicals from "Prime All" compound.
One package makes more primers than I really need.
But you can order chemicals from supply companies if you want to cut your costs even more , or have a bunch of material if you need it.

[MrWolf]

I have tried using the Aluminium roof flashing and still have plenty.
Like you said , it can be tough as nails.
For my chemicals,
I just use the chemicals from "Prime All" compound.
One package makes more primers than I really need.
But you can order chemicals from supply companies if you want to cut your costs even more , or have a bunch of material if you need it.

Powder Valley just had a sale on the prime all's for like $18 around Thanksgiving. I grabbed one of each. I just checked and they are back up to $28. I would look for sales like these to just have the supplies on hand. Good luck.
Ron

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Powder Valley just had a sale on the prime all's for like $18 around Thanksgiving. I grabbed one of each. I just checked and they are back up to $28. I would look for sales like these to just have the supplies on hand. Good luck.
Ron

Would have been nice if you let us know earlier. :roll:

[LAGS]

I order my Prime All from 22 Reloader for $20

[lead chucker]

I make the H42 and add a little aluminum powder to it to make more of a mag cap. I screen it, if it goes through a 80 mesh and stays on a 100 mesh i keep in and ad it to my compound. Not sure if it makes that much difference but works good.

[lead chucker]

Ive been putting my caps in small bottles and save enough room for a small silica jell pouch with the hope it will help with moisture. Alot of humidity in the air where i live.

[MrWolf]

Would have been nice if you let us know earlier. :roll:


I only saw the sale on a fluke and honestly didn't think about it till LAGS post. His normal costs were about what I paid on the sale. My point was to look around for sales as I am not currently trying to make any caps just getting prepared.

[Dark Vaj]

Dark Vaj,
It is potassium perchloride, much more stable, good sulfur and antimony disulfide. They work great if mixed properly with few if any misfires. Been making caps for 2 years now. And yes corrosive but what is not when using BP or most of the subs. Just clean and oil.
Graysmoke Ah yes, that makes more sense, potassium perchlorate is much more stable and less likely to explode when mixing the agents. I have not personally make any yet but I have joined the "Primer Reloader" group on Mewe, and boy are they interesting, if I ever get to reloading caps and primers, I may post and share some info on this forum. the chemistry is so so beautiful.

[Swineherd]

Neat primer cup maker on the powder valley site.
Way too expensive though, at $125. I'll keep reclaiming used ones instead.

[lead chucker]

Just made up a couple hundered caps tonight with the FH-42. I use potassium chlorate. I add a little aluminum powder it's been working for me. I just got new hearing aids today and when i tested one tonight they Shure seem a lot louder now.

[Graysmoke]

Gents,
I believe I made a mistake. The chemicals in prime all are potassium chlorate antimony disulfide and sulphur. I mistakenly read perchlorate and posted that. Also the 4th in the pac is dexitrin as a binder which I never used and never used any ground glass since I started making caps. Take a small scoop of #4 and add water if it clumps up it sure aint glass. Caps work fantastic with the 3 chemical mix and your favorite mix for the wetting of the mix….and they are loud!

[LAGS]

I checked it out and have to agree that the chemical #4 in the Prime All doesn't look like glass.
I put it in water and it expands and floats around.
Then settles to the bottom of the jar.
Glass beads from my bead blaster settle to the bottom of water.
But it does not look or act like my Dextrin.
Dextrin is a lot softer and very water soluble.
It doesn't seem to float or lump around in water or settle to the
bottom over time.
I don't use the #4 chemical either.
So investigating what it is really isn't that important to me either.

[Trapper-Jack]

I haven't used their binder either. I use a solution of acetone fingernail polish remover (Dollar Store) saturated with smokeless powder. It activates and binds the chemicals in the cap tight. Haven't had any fall out and you're right, they're hot caps.

[Nobade]

It's a snow day and I'm staying home from work so I decided to make a batch of caps. 2 pop cans, less than a nickel's worth of chemicals, and about two hours and I have 60 caps. I had been having trouble with them on revolvers, they would fire but not ignite the powder. They worked fine on rifles. So this time I tried the suggestions and made double wall caps. We'll see how that works. Also first time trying FH-42, I had always used FA-48 with the glass and never liked the idea of firing that down my barrels.

[Nobade]

Well, I tried some and they work great in the '62 pocket. 100% success for 15 rounds. Thanks to whomever suggested the double wall caps! And yes, that mix with the aluminum is loud! Looks like I have found the solution to the nonexistent caps.

[LAGS]

So far I have found that the double wall caps made with FH-42 works most reliable.
But at this time I do not have revolvers.
But they don't misfire at all on my rifles.

[lead chucker]

So do you mix the acetone with gun powder with the components or just put a drop on top of each cap and let dry?

[lead chucker]

I have been filling the caps then put a drop of finger nail polish mixed with acetone in the caps and let sit a minute and then pack them tight then take a blow dryer to them to dry them out. A trick LAGS told me about, you can test them out in a bout five minutes. I would like to know more about using bullseye with acetone. I bet that would up the power of the caps a bit and maybe i little less sensitive to humidity.

[Nobade]

First I fill the cups with the primer mix, tamp it down with a shishkabob stick, then make up a mix of two tablespoons of acetone with three drops of Duco cement mixed in, and put a drop on each cap. The Duco is nitrocellulose so pretty much the same as dissolved gunpowder. They don't fall apart, and are ready to use in an hour or so.

[HamGunner]

My procedure is almost exactly like that of NOBADE. I tamp the dry mixture down well, then I put one drop of Acetone/Duco Cement solution in each cup. Just before the Acetone has completely dried, I place one toy cap gun cap on each cup and press it down on top of the damp mixture to help hold it in place.

Any thin piece of paper that would readily burn would likely work just as well, but I prefer to use one of the toy caps. I use the German made Legend brand, but even the cheaper Chinese caps would likely work just as well, since the Armstrong Mixture is not really needed as the cap mixture is sufficient to give a good flame.

I include a small amount of very fine air float aluminum powder in my priming mixtures rather than ground glass. Aluminum seems to give all the friction needed, plus it enhances the flame.

I have tested the percussion caps within a few hours and they seem to be dry enough to be quite sensitive, but I always allow them to dry a few days before using for shooting.

I have followed LAGS suggestion by punching the empty caps through a home made die to straighten the sides and flatten the nose before filling them has helped a whole lot. The cap to nipple fit is improved and they grip the nipple as well if not better than factory caps.

I use the FH-42 formula for my Black powder, which is basically the Prime All formula, but instead of ground glass of course, I use the aluminum powder. I have also tried the EPM-20 smokeless made up of Lead Nitrate and Lead Hypophosphite along with a bit of ground fast burning nitrocellulose and aluminium powder in both my center fire primers as well as the percussion caps, which works well. I prefer the FH-42 for the Black powder as it seems to give a bit more sparks along with the flame.

[LAGS]

That addition of a small amount of Aluminium powder to the H48 mix or possibly the FH-42 mix sounds like a good idea to further improve your primer mixes.
I do have some very fine aluminium powder left over from some firework powder that I use to make.
I might just give that aluminium a try next time I make some caps.
Only problem is,
I have over 1000 home made caps already.
So it might be a while before I make a load of caps again.

[lead chucker]

I think the friction comes from the antimony trisulfide. The aluminum might help. My aluminum is screened through a 80 mesh screen and if it stays on top a 100 mesh its good to go. If its finer than that it acts like fuel, 80 to 100 makes good burning shards which is what you want. I could be wrong but this is what i have learned from Aardvark reloading web sight.

[Nobade]

I believe that adding aluminum is what makes a factory primer into a magnum. More burning particles to ignite the main charge.

[Idz]

Curious if anybody has tried the Powder Valley primer cap maker? I didn't attempt to make such a thing after reading in Frost's book on how difficult it is getting the right brass and the precision required to get the cap to exact dimensions.

[MUSTANG]

Curious if anybody has tried the Powder Valley primer cap maker? I didn't attempt to make such a thing after reading in Frost's book on how difficult it is getting the right brass and the precision required to get the cap to exact dimensions.

Yes. The Powder Valley primer cap maker is the same as the Sharpshooter primer cap maker. I bought one to replace my original "Tap-O-Cap" die set that is dislocated for the last few years in a storage area.

I use aluminum cans for material. My favorite brand of commercial Beer can - Irish Death is used as it gives me one side almost al black and the other silver which helps me in sorting out any "Questionable Cap Cups" visually. The thickness is about 0.016 inches thick. I too use H-48 or FA-42 formulas for my caps. Two considerations for primer caps created:

1. It tends to produce a cup with a slightly rounded bottom. I prefer to use a punch to to lightly tap and flatten the bottoms of the caps before loading them with primer material.

2. I find that on my 35 year old CVA Hawken .50 cal rifle that I need to slightly squeeze the side of the primer cap before seating onto the nipple. Of course; I find that I have to do the same for most commercial caps too; so this is no different than what I have to do for the store bought caps.

I have never had a ruptured Primer Cap when firing (From the old Tap-O-Cap or the Caps made using the current Powder Valley/Sharpshooter cap cup making die."

[Nobade]

That $125 Powder Valley tool is different from what we're using to make percussion caps. It seems that was designed to make cap cups for regular rifle primers. They also say to use aluminum sheet, which seems like it would in no way hold the pressure of a rifle round. But I defer to anyone who has tried it.

[MUSTANG]

That $125 Powder Valley tool is different from what we're using to make percussion caps. It seems that was designed to make cap cups for regular rifle primers. They also say to use aluminum sheet, which seems like it would in no way hold the pressure of a rifle round. But I defer to anyone who has tried it.

Powder Valley is a vendor/reseller for Sharp Shooter products. There are three items available pertinent to the immediate discussion: (1) Cap Cup maker for Percussion Cap firearms, (2) Small Pistol/Rifle Cup Maker and (3) Large Pistol/Rifle Cup Maker. (1) uses Aluminum (.014 to .017) for Cups (2 &3 ) requires by their specs the use of Galvanized Steel Flashing (0.017" / 28 Gauge) . One can get the correct thickness Galvanized Steel Flashing (0.017") at Home depot or the such stores. 88 cents per sheet at Home Depot, will make about 300 to 400 cups; Link is: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gibraltar-Building-Products-5-in-x-8-in-Galvanized-Steel-Flashing-Shingle-S58EA-200/202221050

Sources for:

(1) Percussion Cap Cup Dies:
#11 https://www.powdervalley.com/product/sharpshooter-11-percussion-cap-maker/
#10 https://www.powdervalley.com/product/sharpshooter-10-percussion-cap-maker/

https://22lrreloader.com/collections/10-percussion-cap-maker

(2) Small Center Fire Pistol/Rifle Primer Cup Dies

https://www.powdervalley.com/product/sharpshooter-primer-cup-maker/

https://22lrreloader.com/products/center-fire-primer-cap-maker

(3) Large Center Fire Pistol/Rifle Primer Cup Dies.

https://www.powdervalley.com/product/sharpshooter-primer-cup-maker/

https://22lrreloader.com/products/center-fire-primer-cap-maker

[Nobade]

Aah... steel makes more sense. I need to read more closely.

[lead chucker]

Ok so today got off early from work and decided to make some caps. Made the H42 with .02 gr aluminum added this is a 100 gr recipe, packed the caps. Used a rod that has a small pistol primer cup soldered to it for a measure. Then i took the same small pistol measure and put 6 cups of bulseye in a shot glass with a table spoon of acetone and let it sit for ten minutes then stirred till dissolved then added a drop to each cup then let it sit for 10 minutes the hit with blow dryer on high heat for a minute or so then into the toaster oven on around 170 F for 15 minutes. Once it was cool i sprayed it with a thin coat of lacquer to hopefully make it more resistant to humidity. Let it dry then tested some of them with a hamer on a steel plate. I think that bullsey deluted in acitone makes a difference, alot louder and hed a pice of cap materiel shoot through my sweat pants and into my leg. Nothing serious but stung a bit. Wasn't expecting that. I think these are going to be a bit hotter than the regular one i have been making. Please let me know if im heading up the wrong path here with this. All i want is good home made caps that are reliable. I will explain that next poast.

[lead chucker]

The normal caps i make with the H42 recipe work great in my TC Hawkins and traditions deerhunter no problem but my 32 crocket not as good. They work but that gun is more problematic. It shoots fine for a few shots then wount fire try another home made cap or two and no glory. I put a Remington number 11 cap on it and bang. Its been a couple times i have been through this with this rifle so im hoping these new caps im making with the bullseye diluted with acetone will be the cure. My other side lock guns dont seem finicky at all. I shoot mostly 3f powder. Not sure what is up with the 32 but a little hotter home made cap might be the ticket. The home made caps fit nice and snug and go off like they should. These new ones im making seem a little Lowder which equals more power in my little brain.

[n.h.schmidt]

I have used aluminum powder in my cap mixture. Very fine powder like you see in firecrackers. They seemed more powerful. Worked badly. The FA- 42 worked wonderfully without the aluminum. I will not use that anymore. I shoot pyrodex and have not had a failure to fire in two years with my caps. I use spitfire nipples and double pop cans to make the cups. My binder is acetone with 700X . A pinch in a tablespoon of acetone. Lately I have used Pb powder. Mixes up just the same. For my revolvers ,I make the cups out of .005 brass. That will not fragment making no cap jams .

[LAGS]

Your Crockett seems like the breech plug is getting fouled up after a couple shots.
I think that the hole down the center of the breech plug seems really long and small.
It too is hard to clean after every shot.
If I ever have the same issues with my wife's Crockett, I will pull the breech plug and maybe do some modifications to it.
But then that will void any warranty from Traditions.

[Sandro_ventania]

Can you buy all the ingredients to make the cap? I have difficulty finding antimony trisulfide. I found a seller at 80$ per 100g. Is that the same value?

[Trapper-Jack]

Can you buy all the ingredients to make the cap? I have difficulty finding antimony trisulfide. I found a seller at 80$ per 100g. Is that the same value?
I bought a pound of antimony trisulfide from Pyro Chemical Source LLC. The price is $30 per pound (453 g.) The shipping last year was $31 within the United States. Their web site. https://www.pyrochemsource.com/

[Nobade]

I bought a pound of it on Amazon a few years ago. Most of the pyro supply places have it. A pound is probably a lifetime supply.

[Sandro_ventania]

I bought a pound of antimony trisulfide from Pyro Chemical Source LLC. The price is $30 per pound (453 g.) The shipping last year was $31 within the United States. Their web site. https://www.pyrochemsource.com/

I visited the website. Unfortunately they don't ship outside the country. I also looked on Amazon and I couldn't find it there. Hard for me!

[MUSTANG]

I bought a pound of antimony trisulfide from Pyro Chemical Source LLC. The price is $30 per pound (453 g.) The shipping last year was $31 within the United States. Their web site. https://www.pyrochemsource.com/

Just looked on Amazon - They have one pound of antimony trisulfide (vendor is Pyro Chemical) for $35 plus $19.50 shipping.

In past I have purchased from other sources such as Sky Lighter. They have two meshes (different price) currently

Antimony Trisulfide, Chinese Needle -200 Mesh; one pound $19.89 (Plus Shipping). https://www.skylighter.com/products/antimony-trisulfide-chinese-needle?_***=2&_sid=4e81c4f00&_ss=r

Antimony Trisulfide, Dark Pyro -325 Mesh; one pound $42.99 /lb (Plus Shipping). https://www.skylighter.com/products/antimony-trisulfide-dark-pyro?_***=1&_sid=4e81c4f00&_ss=r

[ofitg]

I visited the website. Unfortunately they don't ship outside the country. I also looked on Amazon and I couldn't find it there. Hard for me!

If you have access to tin, and access to sulfur, you might make Tin Sulfide, which can be substituted for Antimony Sulfide -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n4lg0cAXv0

You would need heat at 900 degrees Celsius to start the reaction.

[MUSTANG]

I visited the website. Unfortunately they don't ship outside the country. I also looked on Amazon and I couldn't find it there. Hard for me!


Look locally for STIBNITE; it is a naturally occurring product dating back in historical use to the Chinese 5000 years ago and for the Egyptians.


Stibnite
Stibnite or antimonite is sulfide metalloid mineral of antimony with chemical formula (Sb2S3).


Stibnite is Antimony trisulfide ( Sb2S3). Try local Pharmacies, chemical houses, or "Rock Collecting Venues".

[HamGunner]

I have bought from this site: https://www.fireworkscookbook.com/
But, not certain that they would ship out of the USA as they do not ship to Alaska or Hawaii

A good bit cheaper usually, but they are out of stock right now on Antimony Trisulfide. I think one pound was only $15 plus shipping. I have an Email notification coming once they get some more product in.

I bought some more Potassium Nitrate and a little more Sulfur from them a while back for as cheap as I have found it anywhere else. Packed in double sealed bags and they had really fast shipping.

[Sandro_ventania]

If you have access to tin, and access to sulfur, you might make Tin Sulfide, which can be substituted for Antimony Sulfide -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n4lg0cAXv0

You would need heat at 900 degrees Celsius to start the reaction.

It seems very easy to make tin sulfide. But does it work as well as antimony?

[Sandro_ventania]

None of the above sites ship outside the US. Amazon sends it, but I search and nothing appears! Whoever found it, post the link here so I can see if it opens. My last resort is for a charitable friend to please send me at least 100g. I pay all expenses.

[ofitg]

It seems very easy to make tin sulfide. But does it work as well as antimony?

Here's a report I posted (post # 129) when I tried it - my apparatus/set-up was a bit different -

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?434882-Making-Sparkplugs-My-first-100-primers/page7

I substituted tin sulfide for antimony sulfide on an "equal weight" basis, and I could not tell any difference in performance. I also made pewter (90+ % tin) sulfide and it worked just as well.

[ofitg]

None of the above sites ship outside the US. Amazon sends it, but I search and nothing appears! Whoever found it, post the link here so I can see if it opens. My last resort is for a charitable friend to please send me at least 100g. I pay all expenses.


Following up on Mustang's suggestion, there are numerous sellers on eBay offering Stibnite crystals, and some of them are outside the United States (they ship internationally).

[n.h.schmidt]

I get my antimony sulfide from United Nuclear. You can buy as little as 2 oz. for $8.50 plus normal shipping. It's finely ground and works real well in the primer mixes. I have used it for a couple of years now. The fireworks places only want to sell by the pound and charge too much. I didn't need that much. 4 oz. will last me . It's easy to get stars in your eyes and buy way more than you could ever use. I did that with the other powders.

[Nobade]

Sometimes I can be really dense. I can't believe it took me so long to realize the plastic inserts that CCI small pistol primers come in are a perfect fit for #11 caps. Now loading them is so easy, I put cups in the tray and pour priming mix into them from a little plastic boat I bought. The shishkebob stick tamps down the mixture and lifts the cap out of its pocket. Once they're all done, I dump the remaining mix out, insert more cups, and repeat until all the mix is used up. Tool using human can eventually learn!

[Sandro_ventania]

There are so many formulas... H42, H48, EPH20, EPH25...etc. Have we reached a consensus on which is the easiest and most practical to use in muzzleloaders?

[LAGS]

I am sure others have other opinions.
But I found so far that FH 42 is the easiest and cheapest to use to make dependable primers.
It uses three common chemicals that are easy to buy.
And it just has to be mixed dry as long as all three chemicals are ground up fine already.
I am sure others mixes can work better but may take a little more effort to make them.

[ofitg]

There are so many formulas... H42, H48, EPH20, EPH25...etc. Have we reached a consensus on which is the easiest and most practical to use in muzzleloaders?

Can you buy Lead Nitrate where you live? Can you buy Calcium Hypophosphite (or Sodium Hypophosphite)? You would need those chemicals to make EPH20 or EPH25.

The biggest difference between H48 and FH42, is that H48 contains ground glass (ie, "grit", fine sand will work) to facilitate ignition.

[Idz]

quartz sand is very abrasive, glass is much softer. Glass was removed from primers because some felt it was too abrasive also.

[ofitg]

It is difficult to find online documents which detail how primers were evolving more than 100 years ago. It is not clear to me exactly when FH42 superseded H48. Hatcher’s Notebook mentions that “some shooters” were worried that H48 might cause bore erosion, but he does not indicate that it was ever established to be true. Hatcher did state that Frankford Arsenal switched from H48 (Typo? Perhaps he meant to write FH42?) to 35NF/FA70 during WW1, but the change was because of misfires, not bore erosion.
In any event, misfires could be more catastrophic than hypothetical long-term bore erosion.

[Sandro_ventania]

Can you buy Lead Nitrate where you live? Can you buy Calcium Hypophosphite (or Sodium Hypophosphite)? You would need those chemicals to make EPH20 or EPH25.

The biggest difference between H48 and FH42, is that H48 contains ground glass (ie, "grit", fine sand will work) to facilitate ignition.

For me to make H48 I would have to make my own chlorate and in this case, my own tin sulfide...(or pay the absurd price of antimony sulfide charged here). I have been researching and I am coming to the conclusion that it is more viable for me to produce EPH 20... I have access to lead nitrate and sodium hypophosphite, to synthesize lead hypophosphite. We live in easy times with increasingly difficult laws... but I think this is the way everywhere.

[LAGS]

I agree , make your stuff out of what you have available.

[MUSTANG]

For me to make H48 I would have to make my own chlorate and in this case, my own tin sulfide...(or pay the absurd price of antimony sulfide charged here). I have been researching and I am coming to the conclusion that it is more viable for me to produce EPH 20... I have access to lead nitrate and sodium hypophosphite, to synthesize lead hypophosphite. We live in easy times with increasingly difficult laws... but I think this is the way everywhere.

Whereas in the USofA; many have trouble getting chemicals to make EPH20 since the lead hypophosphite requires extraordinary effort to acquire (took me almost 18 months).

[Sandro_ventania]

Whereas in the USofA; many have trouble getting chemicals to make EPH20 since the lead hypophosphite requires extraordinary effort to acquire (took me almost 18 months).
I can't find it here. I'll have to synthesize it at home, using sodium hypophosphite... it didn't seem difficult.

[MUSTANG]

I can't find it here. I'll have to synthesize it at home, using sodium hypophosphite... it didn't seem difficult.

Apologies; I meant that sodium hypophosphite (used to make the Lead Hypopho****e for making EPH20) is difficult to come by here in the States. It took me 18 months to get the sodium hypophosphite - and it was sourced from outside of the USofA.

[ofitg]

I can't find it here. I'll have to synthesize it at home, using sodium hypophosphite... it didn't seem difficult.

After you do it the first time, stirring manually, you will probably want to buy one of these hotplate/stirring machines 8-)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GB369RR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Sandro_ventania]

The tool to make the caps is now ready.
https://i.ibb.co/k0HxTLF/IMG-20240112-201831180.jpg (https://ibb.co/BjztJhR)

[ofitg]

Here are illustrations from the aardvarkreloading.com website (dimensions in inches) -

https://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/Homemade%20Primer%20Course%202021-06-01.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/u5Kfxfy.png

[Nobade]

I made two of those, one as dimensioned and another that is scaled up for musket caps. Recently I bought one of the 22 reloader ones to see if I was missing anything. Nope! My homemade ones work a lot better than the commercial one. I need to get a small triangular stone to sharpen and reshape the cutters on that. It is also made of very soft steel and mine is stressproof, hardened. Not impressive for the 50 bucks they cost.

[Sandro_ventania]

Here are illustrations from the aardvarkreloading.com website (dimensions in inches) -

https://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/Homemade%20Primer%20Course%202021-06-01.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/u5Kfxfy.png

Yes...I used this illustration to guide me. My drawing was just to convert the measurements to the metric system.

[Sandro_ventania]

I made two of those, one as dimensioned and another that is scaled up for musket caps. Recently I bought one of the 22 reloader ones to see if I was missing anything. Nope! My homemade ones work a lot better than the commercial one. I need to get a small triangular stone to sharpen and reshape the cutters on that. It is also made of very soft steel and mine is stressproof, hardened. Not impressive for the 50 bucks they cost.
I'm going to make another one sized to use aluminum sheets used in gutters. I believe the caps will look better with a thicker sheet. It is also possible to do a gas check with a similar system.

[HWooldridge]

I made two of those, one as dimensioned and another that is scaled up for musket caps. Recently I bought one of the 22 reloader ones to see if I was missing anything. Nope! My homemade ones work a lot better than the commercial one. I need to get a small triangular stone to sharpen and reshape the cutters on that. It is also made of very soft steel and mine is stressproof, hardened. Not impressive for the 50 bucks they cost.

Might be able to case harden the teeth and get it to last longer. IIRC, 1144 won’t get very hard in conventional heat treatment.

[n.h.schmidt]

Nobade It is true that the 22 reloader Cap Maker can stand some improvements. A closer fit of the punch to die is needed. Mine had a .005 difference. This makes for a lot of hangups in the base metals. I expanded my punch teeth with the use of a couple of ball bearings tapped with light hammer blows to the inside of the teeth. Now the fit is about perfect. I have mine on a reloading press and have made about 20,000 + cups with no sign of wear on anything. I use double pop can metal and .005 brass.

[Nobade]

Nobade It is true that the 22 reloader Cap Maker can stand some improvements. A closer fit of the punch to die is needed. Mine had a .005 difference. This makes for a lot of hangups in the base metals. I expanded my punch teeth with the use of a couple of ball bearings tapped with light hammer blows to the inside of the teeth. Now the fit is about perfect. I have mine on a reloading press and have made about 20,000 + cups with no sign of wear on anything. I use double pop can metal and .005 brass.

That's a good idea for expanding the teeth. I'll look at that as well.

[Nobade]

Might be able to case harden the teeth and get it to last longer. IIRC, 1144 won’t get very hard in conventional heat treatment.

No, not super hard but it skates a file. Good enough for this application and considerably harder than the factory made one.

[HamGunner]

Apologies; I meant that sodium hypophosphite (used to make the Lead Hypopho****e for making EPH20) is difficult to come by here in the States. It took me 18 months to get the sodium hypophosphite - and it was sourced from outside of the USofA.

I too sourced my Sodium Hypophosphite from outside the US. I think it came form Bulgaria perhaps. I actually got my Lead Nitrate from outside the US as well, but from a different country still. Only took about 5-6 weeks though for both, if I remember correctly.

The chemical conversion from Sodium Hypophosphite into Lead Hypophosphite was very simple, but I do have a magnetic stirring hot plate. (The one on Amazon looks to be simpler to use than mine and is certainly cheap enough.)

I found that EPH-20 worked just a well as the H-48 or the FH-42, but I only use the EPH-20 in my center fire primers. Since I am cleaning my Black Powder guns anyway, the corrosive priming is not an issue using it for my percussion caps.

[lead chucker]

Making the lead hypophosphate wasnt very hard to do If you watch the Aardvark reloading video and take notes and buy a few things you need the hot plate stirrer was a big help and not very expensive. Sky Lighter fire works seemed reasonable priced for the components i needed. One thing that helped me was to call them on the phone instead of ordering on line. They will work with you on the shipping.

[lead chucker]

I made my cap maker out of 4140 prehard if i remember right. Wasnt too hard to make if you have a lathe. I was actually impressed with how it came out and how it works. I might have just got lucky on my measurements when i made it but it works really good. I think a guy could make one with a good drill press and the right sized bolts and lots of emery cloth to get every thing dialed in. It might be crude but i bet you could do it.

[lead chucker]

probably need a hack saw to cut the slit for the material to slide in. A little red neck engineering and you could make one with minimal tools.

[owejia]

Grandson had never been to Dixie Gun Works, while he was off for the holidays we made the trip over, live about45 minutes away. After inquiring about the #6-48 screws we needed for his muzzle loader and looking around decided to get the Reloader 22 primer making kit and another pound of bp while there. Decided to make my caps out of .005 thick copper. Started getting everything ready to punch and store the caps. Had saved my empty centerfire primer boxes to use for storing them until putting the primer compound in. Couldn't find my empty primer boxes, so this morning while searching through my reloading room found 2000 #11 CCI primers that were hidden behind some more stuff. So guess I will not be in a hurry to start making primers for a while. Will concontrate on getting into the bp making instead.

[LAGS]

My first primer cap maker was made out of a wood block with holes drilled in it and several different size punches.
I had to cut the soda cans into little discs for the cap metal.
It was slower to do than this new style primer cap maker.
But what I did was probably very close to what our ancestors did since they didn't have as much access to the stuff we have today.
Occasionally I like to do things like our forefathers did so I can appreciate how modern times are now.

[firefly1957]

I have been working on making my own percussion caps one die I made uses large primers to form them. I dumped the empties from my RCBS 4X4 press set up for .45 acp and found three small primers and one primer with a upside down anvil ! The primer looks to have fired fine and was most likely range pickup brass.

I am using a odd mix for priming it is made in small batches 8 grains Barium Chlorate , 2 grains Charcoal and .3 grains Red Phosphorous . I have been working with .2 grains in a cap and it is a bit energetic so I will be reducing it . The other day I put 15 grains old Clumped up CTG Pyrodex in my CVA .45 pistol with a bit of paper towel on the powder it went off without a hitch . Commercial caps tend to misfire or hangfire with this old can of Pyrodex . I started by making pellets with Gum Arabic or N.C. Lacquer as binder and finding scooping the mix in then adding a touch of thinned Lacquer seems to be best . Pistol has fired quite a few caps in two weeks without cleaning no rust so far...It was cleaned after firing Pyrodex .

P.S. I tried some of this mix in a large pistol primer it will sizzle but not pop? This mix also only burns about like smokeless powder when not confined .

P.S. II out of curiosity I put a drop of oil (ed's red) on one of these caps then dried it out it was dead as far as impact ignition goes just like normal priming.

[dondiego]

I have been working on making my own percussion caps one die I made uses large primers to form them. I dumped the empties from my RCBS 4X4 press set up for .45 acp and found three small primers and one primer with a upside down anvil ! The primer looks to have fired fine and was most likely range pickup brass.

I am using a odd mix for priming it is made in small batches 8 grains Barium Chlorate , 2 grains Charcoal and .3 grains Red Phosphorous . I have been working with .2 grains in a cap and it is a bit energetic so I will be reducing it . The other day I put 15 grains old Clumped up CTG Pyrodex in my CVA .45 pistol with a bit of paper towel on the powder it went off without a hitch . Commercial caps tend to misfire or hangfire with this old can of Pyrodex . I started by making pellets with Gum Arabic or N.C. Lacquer as binder and finding scooping the mix in then adding a touch of thinned Lacquer seems to be best . Pistol has fired quite a few caps in two weeks without cleaning no rust so far...It was cleaned after firing Pyrodex .

Where did you get the red phosphorous?? I had a few ounces several yeas ago and threw it in my fire pit and wish that I had not done so.