Another 1050 vs 650 thread

[kryogen]

(the question is 1050 vs 650 with casefeeder, I do not want other suggestions such as the 550.). I want a fully indexed machine with casefeeder.
I know that there are cheaper alternatives, I already have one, and I don't want another one.


I have a lee loadmaster and I am quite sick of having a press that doesnt deliver to my expectations.

I reload mostly 9mm for PPC/target. I shoot maybe 800-1000 rounds a months right now. (but wont be able to keep going unless I buy a press that can deliver).

I don't have a lot of time. I have enough money to buy a 1050, but my questions is more, is it worth it or am I just wasting my money, and should spend it elsewhere.

I don't want to regret my press later. If I am going to buy a 650 and then be annoyed at anything because I didn't spend the money on a better press, I will be a bit upset.

I reload mostly 9mm, and some 223(maybe 1000 a year, that I could do in one batch, and then the rest is 9mm).
Since I shoot mixed brass 9/223, the integrated swager would be nice because I would not have to think about it. I already have a dillon super swage, and have processed 1000 223 rounds, but some 9mm and some of my 223 is crimped so I expect some blockages with a 650, and having to remove the case, swage, place back in, prime. It would not happen that often, and it's not like I am commercially reloading.

Of course my concern is the quite big price difference between the 650 and 1050, with 2 conversion kits, and a spare toolhead to process 223 brass(one to process[decap,lube, size] , one to load processed brass)

Soooo, your point of view? I can afford a 1050, but if I spend money there I'm not spending it elsewhere, and I want a press that delivers, but don't really want to spend a fortune.
My budget is more in the 650 range, but could go to 1050 if it's really a better press and I'll like it more. I would rather not pay the difference if it's just about the swage thing.

Thanks

[jmorris]

I have both the 1050 is the better press, guess its up to you if it is $1000 better.

One of my 1050's loading.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La83ZVKnBzw

[jmorris]

One of my 650's loading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3hVi6PuduM

[jmorris]

With the 1050 you get swaging (you will want this when you start loading 223) and positive primer seating depth (adjusted with an allen wrench).

This is how I set up my 9mm 1050. It will load 1000 rounds in 51 min and I can even get other stuff done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU

[firebrick43]

Jmorris, am I correct that the 1050 takes much longer to change over?

[jmorris]

Depends on what you are converting to and from, neither is as fast as the 550 to convert but then again the 550 will never load as fast as a 1050 or 650.

On the 650 the shell plate has one bolt held in place with one set screw. The tool head is held in place with two pins and you might also have to change the arm bushing, body bushing, case feed adapter, station 1 locator and locator pins.

On the 1050 the shell plate has a nut that holds it in place and 4 socket head cap screws locks it in place. The tool head is held in place with a single bolt and you might also have to change the case feed plunger, CF adapter and locator pins.

[LUBEDUDE]

The 650 also uses a plastic indexer, a real PIA to replace when it breaks. Just totally rubbed me wrong in the "Dillon" scheme of things. That's why I got rid of my SL 900 which is based on a 650 frame (after I fixed the indexer).
Never had any problems out 3 of my 1050's. Still have 2 running strong over 10 yrs.

[Rick459]

i have a 650 that i purchased in 1995 and the index arm for the shell plate is metal. when did they changeit to plastic?
Rick

[Rick459]

kroygen...for the ammount of ammo you are shooting the 650 would fit the bill. if you are planning to shoot more then the 1050 is the way to go. just remember that the 1050 has only a 1 year warranty as it is considered a commerical machine. either machine will serve you well.
Rick

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you are just stepping up from a Lee Turret press I would suggest a little smaller step up.

A Dillon 550 B will load 400 rounds per hour with little problems. They are much faster to change over and much simpler over all.

For your needs, I would suggest going that route simply because you will be able to fulfill your needs in 2-3 hours a month!

The 650 or 1050 is not going to be that much faster in the short runs like you are talking about after factoring in set up and change over times. If you were going to load 5 times that much then the more advanced machines would pay for themselves. For the amounts you are talking you would not realize the difference.

Also if you decide you need the faster machines then the 550B could be sold for nearly as much as you paid for it.

After a lifetime standing in front of turret lathes I assure you that running ammo is no different. I tend to run my 550 in 100 round groups taking 15 minutes for each round as that's all the longer I can stand to stand in one place. That is between 7 and 8 rounds per minute or 7-9 seconds per round. Then I go do something else,, usually box up the 100 I just made and also load 100 more primers for the next go round. With everything staged and a young person pulling the handle one could easily do the 4-500 rounds per hour that Dillon claims for the machine. A 650 without the case and bullet feeders won't do much more simply because of the down time between 100 round runs.

There is a physical component to loading ammo at the rate you saw in Morris' videos. He was pulling the handle once a second to achieve the rate of production he was getting. Even his automated machine was running slower than that at 1.25 seconds per cycle.

Pulling the handle 60 times a minute is something that few people can do for more than one minute. You still have to stop every 1min 40 sec to reload the primers, bullets and cases even if you can. Since that takes a couple of minutes or so your actual yield over 5 minutes is going to be more like 100 rounds as opposed to the 300 you think you should get.

This is because there is more to it than just pulling the handle.

ALL down time lowers your production rate of rounds per hour. It is a one way street and there is no possible way to get back any time you lost. It's gone for good.

The best way to manage this problem is to understand what rate you CAN maintain, and base your expectations on that. Realistically,,, unless you are looking for commercial production you would be better off with a less complex 550B that you can keep track of what you are doing on,,, better than you can with a faster machine that makes scrap just as fast as it makes good stuff.

Fully Automated Machines usually stop when something goes wrong, Manually operated machines stop when you do.

These points are all valid and doing any production oriented task is governed completely by how many cycles per second, minute, hour, day, month or year that can be maintained. There is more to it than just the machine, and ALL facets of the production from raw materials or components to finished product ready to be consumed must be considered and added together to find the actual yield.

As far as "Future Regret" goes I have never heard of anyone who was completely disenchanted with any Dillon Product.

My .25

Randy

[LUBEDUDE]

i have a 650 that i purchased in 1995 and the index arm for the shell plate is metal. when did they changeit to plastic?
Rick

I'm referring to the plastic indexing collar under the shell plate. I bought my 900 around 2005.

[kryogen]

no 550 it's out of the question.

[Rick459]

no 550 it's out of the question.
why? do think the 550 will be too slow?

[FLYCUTTER]

Caliber conversion is expensive and time consuming on the 1050. When its running right it cranks out the ammo but miss a primer and you got a mess and now it has to be taken apart to be cleaned. The 650 is not as fast but a lot cheaper to buy and change calibers. If you are loading for a belt fed gun I would say go with the 1050. January Blue Press 1050 is $1739.95 and the 650 is $566.95 both without options. Your call.

[kryogen]

why? do think the 550 will be too slow?
Casefeeder and i want 5 stations
I might also use a bullet feeder one day.

[ratboy]

i vote for a 650.
thats what i bought and the only time i wish it was anything else is when i was processing 223 brass.
i am shooting between 10-15k a year and i quit shooting 223 so i solved that problem

[firebrick43]

The 650 also uses a plastic indexer, a real PIA to replace when it breaks. Just totally rubbed me wrong in the "Dillon" scheme of things. That's why I got rid of my SL 900 which is based on a 650 frame (after I fixed the indexer).
Never had any problems out 3 of my 1050's. Still have 2 running strong over 10 yrs.
It's plastic as it's a mechanical fuse. It is the weak point so other things don't break. It typically breaks only when one over tightens the shellplate bolt or forgets to tighten it's set screw and it self tightens while cycled. I broke one early in my ownership early on. Once I understood it I never had a problem again.


Didnt to think it was hard to replace either??

[McCarthy]

I vote for the 1050. More stations, swager and smooth priming on the down stroke (650 is on the up stroke).

[220]

Casefeeder and i want 5 stations
I might also use a bullet feeder one day.

Sounds like a Hornady LNL-AP might be an option if your not sold on blue.

[Iron Whittler]

I have one of the first XL650 built. Has the steel shell plate mount. I load numerous pistol and rifle cals. with it. The 223 & 9mm being among them. Conversion time is minimal and easy to learn. Mine has the case feeder, powder checker, low primer alarm on primer tube. I will be adding the auto bullet feeder in future. As for crimped primer pockets, I batch my cases. All cases in a batch have had the crimp in their primer pockets removed. This makes reloading them much easier. Cal. conversion kits are cheaper and easier to find. As for production rate, reloading is supposed to be a fun, enjoyable addition to your shooting. Besides, the savings will allow you to buy more powder, primers, brass, and bullets. It will handle the amounts and cals. you mentioned with ease and then some. The XL650 gets my vote.

[jmorris]

(the question is 1050 vs 650 with casefeeder, I do not want other suggestions such as the 550.). I want a fully indexed machine with casefeeder.
I know that there are cheaper alternatives, I already have one, and I don't want another one.


You kind of already answered your own question, the 650 is a cheaper alternative to the 1050.

[StratsMan]

Kryogen,

There's a lot of good reasoning and recommendations in this thread. I have not tried a 650, but I'm ready to sell my 1050 because it's too expensive to buy conversions and I just don't shoot enough anymore to justify its' capabilities. I'm running a 550 as well, but I'd like to downsize to a 650...

On the other side of the coin, the 1050 is a real magnet for other people who don't have much time and want to crank out a few hundred rounds. I supervise them, and with 1 of us monitoring components and the other pulling the handle and monitoring quality we can keep that press running pretty smoothly. So if you want to spend 3-4 hours in one session per month, and can get a fellow shooter involved, you can build all the ammo you both need for a month (or longer???) in one afternoon...

[Bonz]

I have not tried a 650, but I'm ready to sell my 1050 because it's too expensive to buy conversions...

How much less are the caliber conversions for the 650 vs 1050 ?

[kryogen]

Hi, thanks to all for the comments.
At this point, because I'm reloading only approx 10k 9mm a year, and 1000 or so 223, and I want to reload diff headstamp brass easily, and switch calibers without too much hassle, I think that I'll go with the 650 and be happy about it.
If one day I really want a 1050, then I guess that I'll just either sell the 650, or keep one for each caliber.

I have a loadmaster and my main complaint is : priming system doesnt work for me (tried everything, all the tricks, new assembly from lee, die, no die, adjust shell guard tighter, slacker..... still not reliable). Also, no casefeeder.

So, that means I have to resize all my 9mm brass , hand fed, one by 1, on the lee single stage, then prime with their prime thing that you swing, then prime on the upstroke.
Then, I have to hand feed those again, one by one, in the loadmaster to do the actual loading on sized and primed cases. This takes forever. I want a reliable machine to automate this.

Also, for my 223 prep, I want to feed clean brass into the brass feeder, then do lube die, size, then out in cleaning bin. (I dont reload enough to buy a dillon trimmer). Then I just take the clean brass, quickly run through the WFT trimmer, and dump into case feeder for the 2nd reloading toolhead. Neck size (to make sure nothing in flash hole, polish inside case cut, and make sure necks are uniform, then powder, bullet, crimp.... then done.

I used to reload some 45, 38, 357 but just got annoyed of reloading too many calibers. Down to 9mm, 223, and match 308 on single stage.

Should work.
Great thanks.

[kryogen]

How much less are the caliber conversions for the 650 vs 1050 ?

394 vs 185 so 210$ cheaper

[angus6]

I load 13 calibers on my 1050 , I use Hornady lock rings and just swap dies ,not a big deal. As to conversion cost I'm at around $65 a pop as I buy just parts needed and can usually find used.

When I picked up my 1050 it didn't take long to remove the 550 and 650 from the bench as the 1050 is so much nicer to use, think taking a rode trip in a pinto versus Caddy

[kryogen]

is the 1050 that much better to crank the handle?

[rbt50]

remember the 1050 is a commercial machine and only has a one year warranty.

[kryogen]

remember the 1050 is a commercial machine and only has a one year warranty.

Will it ever break reloading 12k rounds a year anyway?

[jmorris]

Only parts I have had to replace on my 1050's is the plastic tip on the primer tube and Dillon always sends them for free. Might be because the same tip is used on my SD's and 550 machines too.

I loaded for 20 years or more before I bought my first 1050 and was happy. That said after the first one I did get another and sold one of my 650's to cover the price.

[rockrat]

And to throw another kink in the discussion, there is a used 1050 for sale in the S&S!!!

[kryogen]

And to throw another kink in the discussion, there is a used 1050 for sale in the S&S!!!


For the price of a new one as usual.....

[W.R.Buchanan]

Also, for my 223 prep, I want to feed clean brass into the brass feeder, then do lube die, size, then out in cleaning bin. (I dont reload enough to buy a dillon trimmer). Then I just take the clean brass, quickly run through the WFT trimmer, and dump into case feeder for the 2nd reloading toolhead. Neck size (to make sure nothing in flash hole, polish inside case cut, and make sure necks are uniform, then powder, bullet, crimp.... then done.

Kryogen: If you need the 5th station for a lube die then you might consider a slightly different approach to your loading sequence. What you are doing is counter productive in that you are Tumbling your cases and then lubing them afterwards which means you have to wipe the lube off each one before you fire them.

I collect Range Brass from different outings until I have about 200 and then tumble them for an hour and bag, and store. Then when I need to reload I grab a bag of clean brass and start. This brass was cleaned during off times so it is not part of a loading cycle.

Case Prep and loading should be two different functions.

If you Lube, Size and Deprime, then trim your cases if you must, in the first operations and then tumble, you end up loading clean resized cases which are done as soon as they come off the machine. If you tumble for 24 hours in Walnut Hulls you don't even need to deburr the inside as the tumbling action does a nice job on that, however 1 hour will remove the lube. Look into Dillon Case Lube which will eliminate the Lube Die completely.

With .223s I don't even bother trimming them as they are all a one way trip and I will never see them again. Using a Lee Collet Crimp Die will eliminate the need to trim these cases. Also loading boat tail style bullets will make the bullet seating operation go much smoother. I assume you are using 55gr FMJBT's as they are the cheapest and most common bullets for these rounds out there and are completely suitable for any non hunting use in a Carbine.

By prepping your brass first and then loading it in two separate operations you will eliminate a bunch of monkey motion and turn out better ammo. This is what you want to do anyway, it is just a slightly different sequence of actions than what you are proposing.

Also this way the 5th station on your new 650 could be used with a powder check die so you don't make dangerous ammo.

If this is not to your liking then a 1050 is the way to go as you can do everything to a cartridge from start to finish in one pass and eliminate several handlings which ultimately saves time. Otherwise you will have to go thru numerous other operations to make sure every case is suitable to load.

3/4 of automated processing is about eliminating as many steps as possible and doing things in a logical and non redundant manner.

The other 1/4 is pulling the handle.

Randy

[angus6]

kryogen you'll differently be happy going from the LM to the 650, not near as happy if it was to the 1050 but happy.

some broke 1050 porn
136082

[kryogen]

buchanan I don't get your whole post. It's just too long and complicated.

1- I'm not going to feed dirty brass in my press. So I usually just tumble it to remove dirt and grime. Quick cycle in the corncob.
2- I'm going to feed clean (not sparkling, but grime free) brass, and then have a lube die, deprime/size die, and then trim it, and then re-clean it completely with SS pins for a few hours to have it squeaky clean. (toolhead 1 = prep)
3- Then, I'm going to feed clean and sized brass in the press again to neck size, prime, powder, bullet, crimp, and done. (toolhead2=load)

What's the problem, in less than 2 lines?

[jmorris]

Why are you sizing, trimming then sizing again? I assume you also never run across crimped primer pockets?

[M-Tecs]

I have three 650's and two 1050's. I am going to be buried with the 1050's.

[kryogen]

Why are you sizing, trimming then sizing again? I assume you also never run across crimped primer pockets?

The neck sizing is just to make sure that the primer hole is clear, and that the neck has perfect shape before loading, and no burrs.
Doing so on the progressive isnt any harder, and doesnt require any lube anyway. Why not use the die, I already have it anyway.

If I have a crimped pocket, I just remove the brass, and use the super swage, put back in, prime.
Most of my brass is already de-crimped.

Is it worth 1000$ more just to have auto swage built in? Maybe not to me..... I don't really see more advantages to the 650, to me, other than that?
It just looks like a major annoyance to switch from 9mm to 223 on the 1050, adjust primer depth, swage rod, and then it's 200$ more to change calibers vs the 650...

[jmorris]

Primer depth is set on a 1050 with an Allen wrench, housed within the tool head it moves with the dies for a given caliber. Is it worth it? I have a few of them but I also don't own a boat or motorcycle anymore and prefer how they work. If I collected stamps or Rolex watches I would likely spend the money in that direction.

The easy way to "convert" one over to them is let them load with one. Where are you located?

[kryogen]

if you switch from 9 to 223, what steps are required to adjust swage rod?
primer depth stays adjusted in the toolhead, that's already quite good.

One option to save a few hundred $ would be to use hornady lockrings and just remove dies. when switching. That way I could have it setup for 9 most of the time, but do some 223 when I want to.
With the USD at 1.25 CAN$, the 2500$ kit is now more like 3125$

Having the full switch kit from 9mm to 223 is like 500$ CAN on the 1050... starting to be a little expensive to reload 1000 223s a year.
Because I would do approx only one batch a year, switching dies with lockrings to save the 300$ for the toolhead + powder measure doesnt sound soooo bad.
I guess I could have the lockrings, and just switch the dies, powder funnel and the powder bar? Maybe that wouldnt even be longer than switching TH... but then I would have to readjust primer depth, etc etc.....

which leads me to my economy 650 until I am done buying baby stuff and doing home renos.... wife is draining all my money :P

[W.R.Buchanan]

Kryogen:
1. try re reading my post again. it is not that complicated. I am talking about how your sequence of operations has redundant operations and offering a better method.

2. You are trying to figure all this out without the benefit of having a machine in front of you to help you understand the operation. Therefore it appears to be too complicated.

Sorry I need one more line.

3. This is the exact reason why you need to drop back your expectations to a 550B. The 650 and 1050 are exponentially more complicated than a 550. You need to learn to walk before you can run.

Randy

[kryogen]

I already run a loadmaster progressive 5 station with primer depth adjustment and case collator and 4 caliber change kits. I also have a lee single stage and a forster coax for match 308, I am not going to a 550.

I want a press with a case feeder and auto indexing to reload 10 000+9mm per year, and 1000 or so 223. The 550 doesnt fit my expectations.

Reloading 223 is 2 step, how would you do it on a 223?
You need a toolhead to deprime and size lubed brass, then clean the cases, trim (I trim all my 223 cases because I pick them up and would rather be safe but thats just me, it's not long with a WFT on a press drill), then a toolhead to actually load?

[angus6]

I already run a loadmaster progressive 5 station with primer depth adjustment and case collator and 4 caliber change kits. I also have a lee single stage and a forster coax for match 308, I am not going to a 550.

I want a press with a case feeder and auto indexing to reload 10 000+9mm per year, and 1000 or so 223. The 550 doesnt fit my expectations.

Reloading 223 is 2 step, how would you do it on a 223?
You need a toolhead to deprime and size lubed brass, then clean the cases, trim (I trim all my 223 cases because I pick them up and would rather be safe but thats just me, it's not long with a WFT on a press drill), then a toolhead to actually load?
With a 650 I'd have seperate toolheads, with my 1050 I swap my dies, I've got toolheads that I don't use cause it's no big deal to change the dies
From your first post you sounded like the $$ for a 1050 wasn't a big deal , now it sounds like thats not the case so yeah just go with the 650as it will serve you just fine, myself after owning the 650 I'd wait to check out the 2 new presses that RCBS is bringing out

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK the way I do it for .223's is,,,

1. All range pickup get tumbled for an hour to clean them and then are bagged and stored in groups of 200. Large Zip-Loc bags.

2. Case Prep; I lube the cases with Dillon Case Lube and then Size and Deprime on my Rockchucker. No Toolhead required.

3. Then into the tumbler for 24 hours to really clean them and remove all lube. When they come out they are Bright and Shiny and look new. Then if they are O/F Military Lake City they get the Primer Pockets chamfered to remove the crimp.

You could insert your WFT operation here.

Now they are ready to load. Bagged and stored until needed.

Note: I don't trim them, specifically because the vast majority of .223/5.56 brass I load has only been fired once,,, AND,,, I use a Lee Collet Style Crimp Die to crimp the bullets in place in their cannelure. This die is not as sensitive to case length as a roll crimp would be. This also eliminates the need to deburr the case mouth.

4. Then I load the cleaned and prepped cases on my Dillon 550B using the first station to Prime, second station to Charge, third station to Seat the Bullet and fourth station to Crimp. This yields @400 rounds per hour and believe me, I am not pushing it one bit.

All my .223 ammo for my Carbines is loaded this same way with 25.0 gr of W748/BLC/2 and 55gr FMJBT's and Winchester primers.

This load is slightly below factory loadings, -5 to -10% and shoots and functions in my three carbines perfectly. I avoid over pressure problems, caused by many things, by loading on the low side of Max. Good advice for everyone.

Paper targets and steel plates don't know the difference.

I have other established procedures for loading hunting and match ammo, but for high volume loading of .223's this is what I do.

For Reloading Pistol ammo like .40 S&W and .45 ACP I tumble all brass for 24 hours, and then directly to the Square Deal for loading. You could easily satisfy your 9mm requirements with a dedicated SDB. I get 500-600 per hour out of mine. Once again,,, not breaking a sweat.

Randy

[kryogen]

Thats clear.
Well, to me, handling all 223 brass on a single stage to deprime/resize is a huge no no....
And the 1050 price is just too much with the conversions.

So I guess the 650 fits my needs.

I can already load quite fast on the lee loadmaster, but I have to size and prime on a single stage and that bothers me extremely... ;)

Thanks all

[jmorris]

I I can afford a 1050, but if I spend money there I'm not spending it elsewhere,



wife is draining all my money :P

That is a conflict. My wife has clothes and shoes that she, over time, spent more money on than I have reloading. After all I don't need to buy new presses every year and still have some I bought new 30 years ago that are still "in style" and work as good or better than new. However, you have to decide how to keep your house happy.

FWIW my wife actually bought me my first 1050, so we would have more snuggle time, that's a win, win.;)

[jmorris]

I already run a loadmaster progressive 5 station with primer depth adjustment...



I can already load quite fast on the lee loadmaster, but I have to size and prime on a single stage and that bothers me extremely... ;)

Thanks all

I agree primer depth adjustment isn't very helpfull on a press if you have to use a different press to prime.

[gunoil]

my 1050 is incredible, love it. $17 hundred dollars. l use a mrbullet drop die and load a long tube. Buchannans correct, if you cant get a loadmaster working you have your hands full with 1050/650.

Dont sell your loadmaster, go to : mikesreloadingbench.com His stuffs incredible. I have another loadmaster that is designated for decaping only. its like slicedbread.

[M-Tecs]

I normally run 223 in batches of 2K to 5K.

First step is a light corn cobb tumble to remove any range dirt. Next is inspect than lube with Hornady One Shot http://www.hornady.com/store/One-Shot-Spray-Case-Lube/ (when dry it doesn't gum up the case feeder like some other lubes) size and deprime. Trim on the Giraud Power Trimmer http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm and last of the first process is tumble in corn cobb or SS pins. Set aside as fully sized and processed brass.

When I prime, drop powder and seat bullet I run a universal deprimer in the first station to remove any corn cobb that may be stuck in the flash hole.

[jmorris]

my 1050 is incredible, love it. $17 hundred dollars.

I like this, they almost sound cheap.

[garym1a2]

With your goals I would get a 650 for the 9mm and run the .223 on your other presses. Its not worth the change kits and conversion for only 1000 .223 a year.

I have a Loadmaster, its very fast but won't prime. MY Pro 1000 is also very fast and won't prime. My 550B primes well and makes very repeatable ammo, BUT I cannot get anywhere near the 400 rounds per hour rate others claim. I run about 300 rounds (45acp) in 90 minutes thru mine.

With .223 I find that brass needs tumbled, sized, cleaned, trimmed, pockets swaged and primed is seperate steps. If using range pickup I would not run them untrimmed. I have AR's15 go down and lockup hard with overlength brass. It's a real pain in a 3gun match to have to bang the buttstock on the ground to clear a jam. The *** trimmer is quite fast.



I already run a loadmaster progressive 5 station with primer depth adjustment and case collator and 4 caliber change kits. I also have a lee single stage and a forster coax for match 308, I am not going to a 550.

I want a press with a case feeder and auto indexing to reload 10 000+9mm per year, and 1000 or so 223. The 550 doesnt fit my expectations.

Reloading 223 is 2 step, how would you do it on a 223?
You need a toolhead to deprime and size lubed brass, then clean the cases, trim (I trim all my 223 cases because I pick them up and would rather be safe but thats just me, it's not long with a WFT on a press drill), then a toolhead to actually load?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I normally run 223 in batches of 2K to 5K.

First step is a light corn cobb tumble to remove any range dirt. Next is inspect than lube with Hornady One Shot http://www.hornady.com/store/One-Shot-Spray-Case-Lube/ (when dry it doesn't gum up the case feeder like some other lubes) size and deprime. Trim on the Giraud Power Trimmer http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm and last of the first process is tumble in corn cobb or SS pins. Set aside as fully sized and processed brass.

When I prime, drop powder and seat bullet I run a universal deprimer in the first station to remove any corn cobb that may be stuck in the flash hole.

This is virtually the same process I described above in post #44.

The key here is separating Case Prep from the Loading Cycle. They can be done on different days or weeks or months or even years. The point is you preprocess the brass and then when needed you simply run it thru the machine to load it. Then repeat the whole process.

Also the advice given in post #48 is a good idea as you don't need to do your case prep on the 650 your Lee Machines are just fine for that. That way you can almost leave them setup up for one purpose and use all of your machines instead of having everything done on one.

More toys is better!

Randy

[M-Tecs]

2. Case Prep; I lube the cases with Dillon Case Lube and then Size and Deprime on my Rockchucker. No Toolhead required.


Same steps but I size on the 650's or 1050's. When I first started I used the Dillon Case Lube but it started making a mess of the case feeder and drop tube so I switched to the Hornady One Shot.

[kryogen]

for some reason the hornady one shot seems ok when it's wet, and when it dries, it's sticking even more than no lube. Maybe I don't use enough?

My loadmaster is fine for everything but priming. Priming doesnt work reliably. I have tried every possible solution. I gave up.
The issue is that it's a major problem because I need to handle and prime every case separately, which doubles reloading time. that's bad.

[Cherokee]

Can't speak to the 1050 - But - I really like my 650 with case feeder, it has my 550B beat all over the place and I have a powder check position with the 650. With my process, I prime separately while watching TV with family so I don't do priming on the press. The 550B is dedicated to 38 Special. Without a powder check position and the difficulty of seeing a charged case, I will not load high pressure rounds on it. As for the 650, I can easily load 600 rounds in an hour, but workng that handle does get tiresome by then. Sounds like to me the 650 with all the options would do what you want for less than the cost of the 1050. 223 would require separate case prep. Just my thoughts...

Edit: I load and shoot 10-15,000 9mm rounds and 5,000+ 45 ACP on the 650 annually, plus several thousand 357 M rounds. In 10 years I had to replace the plastic indexer earlier this year, not hard to do.

[M-Tecs]

for some reason the hornady one shot seems ok when it's wet, and when it dries, it's sticking even more than no lube. Maybe I don't use enough?


Don't know but I have 75K+ without issue on the hornady one shot ran dry.

[gunoil]

troll

[jmorris]

I quit using one shot with the 2nd stuck case (rifle). Dillon lube needs to sit for a min before sizing cases. I lube in a cardboard box lid then chunk them in a case feeder, they are dry by the time they make it to the shell plate.

[M-Tecs]

Maybe I was using to much but the Dillon lube never fully dried for me. It was making a real mess in the case feeder.

[jmorris]

I use 2-4 "pumps" (less for pistol cases and more for rifle) for a "banker box" lid full in a single layer and shake for a few seconds so they can roll around.

[kryogen]

I also quit using one shot because I would get stuck 223 cases. Maybe I'll try DCL for pistol next time.

[Cherokee]

Never had a problem with One Shot in many, many years.

[kryogen]

with the CAN$ low level and 5-600$ shipping from dillon, + the duty I expect to pay, I'll just order from gardner in canada..... same price, less trouble I guess. Was probably better from dillon when the $ was even.

[firebrick43]

I had issues with one shot.

Worked great if you applied it and let dry 5 mins. If you attempted to size before dry or the next day it caused issues.

I recently switched to dillon lube. Much better.
Some post on here recommended placing brass in a gallon bag to apply lube. First time may take 5 squirts but after that two. Some of the lanolin in the bag is rethinned when the two squirts are added making it go much further.

Roll the bag over several times and pour out to dry. I have been looking for the perfect thing to pour out on, a shoe box or bankers box sounds perfect jmorris

[M-Tecs]

I have been reading good things about this http://www.sharpshootr.com/royal-case-die-lube/. Anyone try it yet?

Sharp Shoot R™ Precision Products® announces new for 2012 Royal Case & Die Lube” ™”
A product specific for lubrication , resizing and case forming. This new product is an answer to easy and clean application of a case lubricants. This exciting new product is easier to use with no messy clean-up.. It has no complicated method of application.

[jmort]

I was also going to try it. I generally like the Sharp Shooter Products I have purchased, Wipe Out, Patch Out, No Sweat Shotgun, etc.

[M-Tecs]

Back to the Hornady One Shot. I am not sure why some have issues with it and some don't. I have used a lot with zero issues. Early on I noted that if you didn't shake it well you just sprayed carrier and very little lube? Every rifle die I have has a carbide expander and I currently have solid carbide in 223, 308 & 45/70 but don't have issues with it in my steel dies either.

[ole 5 hole group]

Back to the Hornady One Shot. I am not sure why some have issues with it and some don't. I have used a lot with zero issues. Early on I noted that if you didn't shake it well you just sprayed carrier and very little lube? Every rifle die I have has a carbide expander and I currently have solid carbide in 223, 308 & 45/70 but don't have issues with it in my steel dies either.


One needs to shake the can good and use a light film/spray - if it's just a tish wet when you resize - it'll cause you problems. One Shot Cleaner is extremely good but I gave up on One Shot Lube and went back to using Imperial Wax - never ever had a problem with that puppy.


I assume when your talking carbide in 223 & 308 you're talking Carbide button on the depriming rod? just makes resizing the neck easier; the die is steel - correct? The 45/70 being straight wall - ya carbide all the way. I use the carbide button from Redding on 223, 308 and 30/06 - lube every 6th neck and sizing those necks is as smooth as butter.

[M-Tecs]

I assume when your talking carbide in 223 & 308 you're talking Carbide button on the depriming rod? just makes resizing the neck easier; the die is steel - correct? The 45/70 being straight wall - ya carbide all the way. I use the carbide button from Redding on 223, 308 and 30/06 - lube every 6th neck and sizing those necks is as smooth as butter.



Yes & no, I am referring to using carbide buttons http://redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/28-carbide-size-button-kits on all my dies unless it is a Redding type S neck bushing die http://redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/128-neck-bushings than none are used. With the carbide button you don't need to lube the inside of the neck but as you noted a little lube smooth's things out.

My 223, 308 and 45/70 are solid carbide. http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/24498/catid/4/Dillon_Carbide_Rifle_Dies__Individual___Three_Die_ Sets_ Dillon only made the solid carbide 45/70 for a short time period.

You still need lube but the Dillon Carbide Rifle Dies wear a lot longer than a steel die. The 45/70 is a tapered case so the carbide ring type dies used for straight wall pistols will not work with it.

[Smoke4320]

The only time I have ever had a problem with Hornady One Shot was when I did not use enough
I size mostly rifle cartridges on a 650

[kryogen]

I don't know why one shot sometimes gives me trouble.

If I spray, shake, and start right away, it works fine.
Once they are really dry, like the next day, it's so gummed up that it takes everything to size even 9mm brass. Works better with nothing on.

RCBS lube on the lube pad works extremely well and I get sumer smooth sizing. That,s why I plan to use a 223 lube die. No mess in the case feeder, but good lube to size.

As for 9mm, I'll just use dillon case lube sprayed...

[kryogen]

I'm ordering the 650 btw. 1050 too expensive and I don't want to deal with changing calibers on it.

Thanks for the help guys.

[r1kk1]

I have been reading good things about this http://www.sharpshootr.com/royal-case-die-lube/. Anyone try it yet?

Sharp Shoot R™ Precision Products® announces new for 2012 Royal Case & Die Lube” ™”


A product specific for lubrication , resizing and case forming. This new product is an answer to easy and clean application of a case lubricants. This exciting new product is easier to use with no messy clean-up.. It has no complicated method of application.

I am currently trying it out do some case forming. Give me some time, I have some 405 Winchester to neck down to various cases as well as 30-30 necked down to 25 caliber.

take care

r1kk1

[quasi]

no progressive press is as good as a 1050, period. If you can afford it, you will never regret it. The price of a 1050 and caliber changes is virtually nothing compared to the cost of the components that it will use.

A bonus that all Dillon equipment has is the resale value, they do not depreciate much.

[Lloyd Smale]

650 is a great press. A 1050 is a fantastic press. If you can afford it its a no brainer

[angus6]

The only people that have a problem with changing a 1050 are people that haven't done it or own 650's

[kryogen]

you are now making me want a 1050..... I hate you guys :D

But it's like 1500$ more than a 650 here... jesus. It makes absolutely no logic.

[jakharath]

I ran a 650 for years. Picked up an older RL1050. It blew the 650 away. Since that I've bought a Super 1050, sold the 650 the RL1050. The RL is a great press but I can only load up to 223. If I had the money I would have kept the RL1050 and just used it for pistol calibers. But as the wife told me, "If you had the money you wouldn't be reloading in the first place."

Another note, I still have my 550. It's a different beast than the 650/1050.

[kryogen]

So far it has cost me more to reload than what i have saved.

[rockrat]

actually, with a little bit of modifications to the press, you can load up to 308 length ammo with the 1050. Did load 1000's of 308 ball eq. with mine. You are limited to 165gr bullets or lighter though, things are that close.

[jmorris]

actually, with a little bit of modifications to the press, you can load up to 308 length ammo with the 1050.

You are thinking about the no longer made RL 1050, the super 1050 will load 30-06 out of the box. Unless you do a rotary conversion that puts it pretty much back to RL stroke.

[quote]But it's like 1500$ more than a 650 here... jesus. It makes absolutely no logic.[/img]

If it's not for you, then just don't get one. I have seen folks blow $1500 or more gambling or other, to me, illogical things but I load on really nice equipment. They probably think it is foolish to spend that kind of money on a press and would rather spend the money on a few days of fun in Cancun. If everyone is happy then no one is "wrong"

[kryogen]

If it's not for you, then just don't get one. I have seen folks blow $1500 or more gambling or other, to me, illogical things but I load on really nice equipment. They probably think it is foolish to spend that kind of money on a press and would rather spend the money on a few days of fun in Cancun. If everyone is happy then no one is "wrong"

I don't gamble, but my wife makes me spend all my money on furniture and baby items... and I bought a grand cherokee.. Oh well....

[W.R.Buchanan]

Kryogen: on Money,,, Your money , Her money, and Our money. Do your best to keep them separate and you'll be much happier.

You have to be fair, but you also have to shut down destructive "Score Keeping" as it will end up with you paying alimony. #1 cause of Divorce is Money Problems.

Also never sell your dreams to pay for everyday expenses,,, figure out another way. If you do,,, you will find you have no dreams left and the diapers you bought are all FOS!

Seen it a thousand times.

A friend once had a really cool Jeep TJ with a Cummins Diesel in it. His wife actually liked driving it to and from work,,, they lived in Alberta so the vehicle was well suited to winter use.

After the second kid they had a bunch of Doctor Bills that she was uncomfortable with, so she made him sell the Jeep. He got $9500 off Ebay on a Jeep that was easily worth $25K, but she wanted a quick sale to pay off the bills.

$9500 didn't cover the bills so then he didn't have the Jeep and still had the bills. She left 2 months later and now he has a $1000 an month child support payment and the bills. Since she took the other car, he didn't have any way to get to work and lost his job.

He sold his dream to pay for "someone else's perceived comfort." He ended up with nothing but heartache.

He told me he could always build another one, and I told him he never would. After 10 years he hasn't built anything and only works to support her.

Never sell your dreams to pay bills. Find another way.

If she leaves, you will still at least have your dreams.

My .02 on Dreams, Toys, Money and Divorce.

Randy

[kryogen]

My question is, is it really "more fun" or "better" to reload on the 1050 vs the 650? Whats so much better on it?

Please define what is better, clearly. Other than the swager and prime on the downstroke.
Why is it worth 1500$ more.

One way I could save on a 1050 is by getting just one toolhead, never changing it but switching dies with rcbs lockrings.....
I'll just be reloading 9mm and some 223 anyway, both small primer, would just need the caliber conversion kit.
And I could just get an extra powder bar to be able to keep the same powder measure, and another powder die so I don't have to adjust it to switch.

Anyone does it?

Which extra parts do you need to switch calibers?

Powder bar, powder die, caliber conversion kit, that's all? Then use rcbs lock dies?
So when you change from 223 to 9mm, just need to adjust swage rod and primer depth, then thats it?

I would rather get the 1050 to never regret it, but I don't want to go over the top with expenses....

[firebrick43]

Mr Buchanan. If she left two weeks later she was just being vindictive and had already made the decision. Also lack of vehicle in no reason to lose a good job. Get an apartment or rent a room near work. I know several drunks that have kept their job.

Also after driving jeep wranglers for many years in indiana they are really lousy winter vehicles and a diesel would make it worse. They are great for 12" of unplowed snow with 4wd but on roads that are mostly clear you can't engage 4wd or you will tear up your transfer case. So your tooling along and the short wheel base swaps ends so easy on blacks ice or a patch of packed wind blown snow. More weight in the front exaggerates this lack of stabability and make sub zero starts much more exciting like winning the lottery. But as long as you don't hit that telephone pole you have 4wd to get out of the ditch as that fwd minivan passes you like nothing's wrong with the road.

[quasi]

kryogen, where are you getting the $1500.00 price difference from? The Shooting Edge in Calgary has the best Dillon prices I have seen in Canada.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Firebrick: your experience and mine on Jeeps is two completely different things. A 4BT in a TJ is a well established conversion. It makes the Jeep into a tractor.

This Jeep had 35" Swampers on it and lockers in both axles, and driving it in snow is like driving a snowmobile. Driving on anything but clean paved roads in 4wd there is plenty of slippage to not hurt a transfer case. You don't engage the lockers as that will make it testy to keep going in your proposed direction, but you need two wheels pulling to keep you going strait.

He grew up and lived in Alberta and he knew how to cope with winter driving.

As far as his wife goes,,, Well,,, no money will make lots of women into bad things. it was two months not two weeks.

As far as not holding a job because of no vehicle, I didn't say it was an excuse, I merely stated what happened. The guy was not the brightest bulb in the box and me and several others warned him well in advance of what was coming and he still let it happen.

The overall jist of the post was to warn younger guys not to give up their toys to buy everyday stuff that ends up in the trash or the toilet. You can always find another way. Giving up your dreams never works.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Kryogen: The 1050 is a "Commercial Quality Machine." It is designed for continuous use for producing commercial quantities of ammunition.

That is why there is only a 1 year warrantee on the machine. You will never wear one out doing what you are going to do.

The Frame is Cast Iron instead of Cast Aluminum. It is just a heavier duty piece of machinery.

Either one of these machines will serve you well, and you'd be happy with either one.

Don't think to deep into the "Future Regret Syndrome." If you were dissatisfied with either machine you can resell and get 95-99% of your money back on either one. Dillon's Resale value is second to none and Resale Value is a prudent consideration when buying machinery of any kind as someday you will want to sell it.

May be a while, but it will happen.

Randy.

[kryogen]

kryogen, where are you getting the $1500.00 price difference from? The Shooting Edge in Calgary has the best Dillon prices I have seen in Canada.

ooh they are much less espensive than murray gardner, I'll ask them. But they seem to be out of stock on everything.

Ok, from dillon, the 1050 is 1739 and the full load 650 (casefeed, dies, strongmount, roller handle) is 944

That's still 795$ more for the 1050, and caliber changes are a pain and/or are twice as expensive.

You know what, at this point, I don't know what I want.
If I went with the 1050, I would probably just get the 223 conversion kit, and use hornady lockrings to be able to install and remove dies without re-adjusting. I would keep the same toolhead and powder measure to save money. I would just get another powder die and powder bar I guess, so I don't have to deal with changing it.

What is your point of view on this?

Would you prefer a 1050 and to switch dies (lockring, once a year at most anyway for a 223 batch), the rest of the year would only be 9mm.
Or, a 650 with separate toolheads, dies stay on the toolhead. At that price I would get the quick change kit anyway, for 223.

I reload range brass so 223 might be crimped, same for 9. With the 650 it would jam, I would have to remove case, swage, then re-install case. Most of my 223 brass is already swaged, but still a pain I guess? Mixed headstamp though, would it be an issue on the 1050?

I could just sell a gun to pay for the difference, I have probably 3k worth of pistols that I'll never shoot again... Maybe I should get the reloader that I want and get rid of the pistol hoarding...

[jmorris]

So when you change from 223 to 9mm, just need to adjust swage rod and primer depth, then thats it?

If you run two tool heads, you need to swap the tool head, held inplace by one bolt and swap the shell plate held in place by one collar (with four button head socket head cap screws on Delrin, serve as a Locking device. Then the case feed plate and case feed adapter.

FWIW I don't convert a 1050 or 650 to another caliber for 1000 rounds but I also have a bunch of Dillons from SD's all the way to 1050's. There is no "best" just "better". The difference between the two are what you are going to do and how you want to do it.

For me, I would rather have two 650's (one for large primer and another for small, sharing the case collator between the two) before having a single 1050. That said a few of each wins.

[kryogen]

yeah but I wont be loading any volume of large primer any time soon, so I'm just doing 9 and 223.
308 gets done on my coax(low volume lr shooting), and I'll just stop shooting 45. It's kind of pointless anyway, to me.

So I'm just looking to do 9mm and 223. approx 1000 223 a year, and 10-12k 9mm a year.
Because I use a lot of mixed range pickup, the swaging seems interesting....

[kryogen]

Ok, im getting a 1050 screw that, I don't want a 650 I'll regret it from the moment I order it for the rest of my life. Sucks.

I would probably just switch dies with hornady lockrings if I'm only going to do one batch of 223 a year, makes sense? I would just need the caliber conversion kit and lockrings, right?
The 1050 comes with just the appropriate powder bar, so I would need a powder die, and powder bar for 223, and that's all? switch the powder die, measure, install good powder bar, adjust primer depth and swage rod, done?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I just know you're gonna figure this out. :mrgreen:

Randy

[quasi]

go 1050, I have never heard of a person switching from a 1050 to a 650 willingly.

[Alvarez Kelly]

... The 1050 comes with just the appropriate powder bar, so I would need a powder die, and powder bar for 223, and that's all? switch the powder die, measure, install good powder bar, adjust primer depth and swage rod, done?

You will use the small powder bar for 9mm. Most folks use the large powder bar for .223. You just "dwell" a bit on the down stroke to make sure all the powder trickles into the small neck...

Since your new 1050 will come with one large and one small powder bar, I think you'll be in good shape.

[Alvarez Kelly]

go 1050, I have never heard of a person switching from a 1050 to a 650 willingly.

Well... I did. Sort of. I sold my 650s and my 1050 and kept two 550s. I like them all, but I LOVE my 550s. Besides, I didn't really need the high volume anymore, so I sold them at a huge premium thanks to the "shortages."

Just throwing it out there... I once added up what I paid for my Dillon presses, dies, conversion kits, accessories, etc.. I then subtracted what I sold SOME of them for... My cost basis for my last two 550s and my two Square Deals is negative. I made money owning Dillon presses over the years.

What is right for me is not right for anyone else. If you want the 1050, then buy it. I seriously doubt you will be disappointed.

[quasi]

Yes Dillon`s really keep their value, all their products. The Star Boolit Sizer is the only other reloading tool that also does that, although I think Mihec`s moulds may be like that someday.

[kryogen]

Well... I did. Sort of. I sold my 650s and my 1050 and kept two 550s. I like them all, but I LOVE my 550s.

What do you prefer on the 550 vs the 650? Less trouble to switch calibers and do just a few rounds?

It's clearly true that if someome reloads low volume of many calibers, the 1050 is not an option and the 650 could start getting expensive with all the kits, feeder plates, etc.
And sometimes it's just bothersome to switch and fill a casefeeder for 30 rounds I guess.

For low volume rounds I use my loadmaster to flare, powder, bullet, crimp, hand feed the cases that were sized and primed on a single stage. I could use a 550 and prime on the same toolhead instead though. But I'm not buying another press again. That's why I just cut calibers that I'm shooting... 9, 223, target 308.

[r1kk1]

What do you prefer on the 550 vs the 650? Less trouble to switch calibers and do just a few rounds?


I bought the 550 over the 650 for one reason only - versatility. The 550 has kept me from buying a turret press. I prefer one pull of the handle to produce a round than three or four pulls. I load from .17-.50 cal and needed a press that would have the capability to grow with my barrel collection. The 550 is a truly simple machine. I load in batches from 100-1000 depending on the cartridge. I don't like three things about the 550. Die spacing is very cramped. I can use two of my favorite lock rings on two dies and the other two wear Dillon rings. I don't really like the dedicated powder measure station. I circumvent this by using a QM on any station I want. The last thing is I wish I had just one more die station to use for occasional projects. To fill this gap, I use a single stage using a LNL bushing for a crimp station or whatever the task needs to be done.
Oh I almost forgot. Dillon doesn't make a powder funnel for the 500 Linebaugh. I think buckshot can fix this for me.

My needs are different.

Take care

r1kk1

[rasto]

kryogen are you a man or a woman???
I have read your posts and your decision making process is chaotic and unpredictable lime women have!
First of all, do you have the money to afford 1050?
If yes, there is no other press even close.
If you do not have the money buy your self a 650 and dream about 1050 till last breath.

W.R.Buchanan (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?18208-W-R-Buchanan) signing your post about marriage!

[skeettx]

I have two 1050s, one for small primers and one for large primers.
I have spare heads with powder measures for different cartridges.
The change over time is quite small, if you stay within primer size
and have prepared heads and measures.

Mike

[kryogen]

I have two 1050s, one for small primers and one for large primers.
I have spare heads with powder measures for different cartridges.
The change over time is quite small, if you stay within primer size
and have prepared heads and measures.

Mike

how many rounds a year do you shoot?

[jmorris]

What do you prefer on the 550 vs the 650? Less trouble to switch calibers and do just a few rounds?

That is it for me. Less stuff to change and a lot faster than a turret.

[skeettx]

kryogen
I am retired and therefore have lots of time to shoot
Normally
Monday is rifle and pistol morning 40 rounds of rifle and 100 of pistol
Tuesday is shotgun morning 100 shotshells
Wednesday is indoor pistol 100 to 200 rounds of pistol
Thursday is rifle and pistol morning and shotgun afternoon,40 rounds of rifle and 100 of pistol, 100 shotshell
Friday is Fishing or playing day
Saturday is rest and play day
Sunday is God's Day
Reloading is everyday

See how simple I am?? :)

Mike

[kryogen]

My loadmaster wouldnt be so bad if it could just prime reliably. It just wont.
I guess that I'll just keep it for low volume rounds because I already have the toolheads and conversion kits. (45, 38, 357). Oh well...

[W.R.Buchanan]

No after 6 pages of comments you are required to buy something.

You will not be allowed this much attention only to say "I'll keep what I've got."

Now go buy something!

We are always ready to spend your money for you. This will not change.

The beatings will continue until moral improves.

Randy

[Wis. Tom]

I would get a 1050 in a second, if I could afford it. I'm just saying, they are so sweet, but even if I had the $1700, I would then have to afford to stock up on more powder and primers. LOL

[kryogen]

I didnt say that I wouldnt buy anything, I said that I will keep the loadmaster for other low volume reloads.

1700$ isnt the issue, it's the fact that it's almost 1.5X the price in canada. more like 2550 + tax, which is closer to 3000 in fact. That's starting to be a little expensive.... +500 shipping

SO it's in fact 3500$ for a 1050 with one caliber conversion (no quick change).

3500$.... for a reloading machine..... makes me wonder if I'm going crazy.

[jmorris]

No after 6 pages of comments you are required to buy something.

I agree, I think I even have to buy a pro 1000 at this point, just so I learn a lesson...again.

[kryogen]

never had a pro 1000

[jmorris]

never had a pro 1000

The good Lord watches over some of us.

[Wis. Tom]

I have a Pro 1000 and I think it was the Good Lord, that provided it for me... to teach me patient, to not boost, to not be easily angered...

[Alvarez Kelly]

I have a Pro 1000 and I think it was the Good Lord, that provided it for me... to teach me patient, to not boost, to not be easily angered...

Now THAT'S funny! :-)

[garym1a2]

Its a great decapper of you don't don't prime on the press. Once you have primed brass its also quite fast. Even though I have a 550B setup for 45acp, I have not bothered replacing the pro1000 for 9mm because of crimp in primers.
Properly setup the pro1000 case feeder works quite well.
I agree, I think I even have to buy a pro 1000 at this point, just so I learn a lesson...again.

[garym1a2]

Given that you only load about 1k or less of 9mm per month why bother with the cost of the 1050 over the 650 as with the 650 you can get a month of reloading done in 2 hours verse 90 minutes for the 1050.


I didnt say that I wouldnt buy anything, I said that I will keep the loadmaster for other low volume reloads.

1700$ isnt the issue, it's the fact that it's almost 1.5X the price in canada. more like 2550 + tax, which is closer to 3000 in fact. That's starting to be a little expensive.... +500 shipping

SO it's in fact 3500$ for a 1050 with one caliber conversion (no quick change).

3500$.... for a reloading machine..... makes me wonder if I'm going crazy.

[kryogen]

Auto swaging seems like the last reason, but again, is it worth 1200$ CAN more, I don't think so. Most of my 223 brass I will reuse, and it's already all swaged (I have the swager).
Some of my 9mm is crimped, but I could just swage it if I get a hard to prime case.

In the end, the 650 would be more in my price range, and allow me to switch calibers more easily at a cost I can more reasonably justify. With tax and CAN$ conversion, it's 1.5X the price, + like 500$ shipping.... so it starts to be expensive for 400-1000 rounds a month.

I'll probably go with the 650 then. I just felt like the 1050 would be better, but the truth is that it won't really be better for me, to reload already swaged brass, at those quantities, for like 1500$ more for the order.

[jmorris]

I just felt like the 1050 would be better, but the truth is that it won't really be better for me

Hit the "nail on the head". The 1050 is a better press but most certainly not for everyone.

[kryogen]

Um, I had a bad time loading range pick up 9mm brass today, most of it was crimped, and I was having tilted or upside down primers.....
If I pick up all range brass and dont want to bother swaging everything I pick up, the 1050 could just do it more reliably.... it's quite a pain to swage all crimps one by one when you crush a primer.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Um, I had a bad time loading range pick up 9mm brass today, most of it was crimped, and I was having tilted or upside down primers.....
If I pick up all range brass and dont want to bother swaging everything I pick up, the 1050 could just do it more reliably.... it's quite a pain to swage all crimps one by one when you crush a primer.

You have identified the conundrum. You can spend the time sorting and prepping cases, or spend the money on the 1050.

Only you know which is right for you.

[kryogen]

This will end with a 1050, but a single toolhead, and dies with hornady lockrings for easy switch once a year to do 223. One extra powder die, one large powder bar, and one small rifle feeder plate....
That way I save around 500$ can, will take a few more minutes to switch once a year, and I get to use a 1050 and never look back.....

[Alvarez Kelly]

All Dillon presses come with a small and a large powder bar. You can set the small one for 9mm and swap in the large one when you load 223.

[kryogen]

The 1050 does not

[Alvarez Kelly]

The 1050 does not
It does come with both powder bars. It does not come with both primer systems.

If for some reason you do not get both, I'll mail you a large powder bar.

[M-Tecs]

Both of my 1050's came with a small and a large powder bars.

[jmorris]

Yes, all of my 1050's came with large and small powder bars.

What you don't get is both large and small primer system conversions, like you do with the SD, 550 and 650.

[kryogen]

ok great thanks for letting me know.

Would you guys get the dillon dies for 9mm or it's not worth it over the lee dies that I already have?

[jmorris]

If you are happy with the Lee dies keep using them. I happen to like Lee dies myself for the most part.

[M-Tecs]

The 1050's come factory set with dies. Since you are only loading .223 and 9mm you will need to pick one. I do a high volume of .223 and 308 so I went with carbide in both. You still need lube but they should last 20 times longer than steel.

[kryogen]

full carbide?

[jmorris]

full carbide?

Full length carbide sizing, the carbide is an insert, just like all other carbide size dies.

They are also expensive and have gone up since I bought the ones I have.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/24498/catid/4/Dillon_Carbide_Rifle_Dies__Individual___Three_Die_ Sets_

[M-Tecs]

If you select a 223 carbide die with the 1050 its a $74.00 upcharge. I did this when I ordered both of my 1050's. One carbide 223 & one carbide 308. Cheaper that way. I had to pay full price on the carbide 45/70. They don't stock it anymore. Through the years Dillon has offered some odd ball carbide dies.

[kryogen]

how many rounds of 223 / 308 do you reload per year?
I find my lee die very smooth for 223 and 308 when using proper lube. Is the carbide better than that?
Easiest sizing I ever got was by dumping 1000 rounds in a bin, run my gloved hands in some mobil 1, and just run through cases with my hands.
Totally effortless sizing, but then it requires hot water and degreaser washing after that.... not very convenient.

[M-Tecs]

See posts #8, 9 & 10 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67705-Dillion-carbide-223-die&p=719837#post719837

[angus6]

To me my .223 carbide die was a waste of money, if I were doing it over I might look at the carbide trim die since every piece of .223 brass goes through the trimmer and I no longer use a F/L sizing die in station 2 just a decap die to make sure the flash hole is clear

[M-Tecs]

Learn something every day. I didn't know Dillon made carbide trim dies. I see they do and in more calibiers than the FL dies. I currently use a Giraud Power Trimmer http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm so my carbide dies rifle work very well for me. Good point if you use the Dillon trimmer. I had one of the very first ones that still has the life time warranty but like a darn fool I sold it.

[kryogen]

the giraud trimmer imo is just a better piece of gear vs the dillon trimmer, bevel in and out, isnt it?
But the trimming every brass without handling it on the dillon progressive is just awesome....

[angus6]

the giraud trimmer imo is just a better piece of gear vs the dillon trimmer, bevel in and out, isnt it?

Bet on the firing line you wouldn't be able to tell which a cartridge was done by ;)

[M-Tecs]

Bet on the firing line you wouldn't be able to tell which a cartridge was done by ;)

Actually the long range competitors can. While I have never not chamfered, I do get noticeably better groups and elevation using a VLD chamfer verse a 45 degree chamfer. No chamfer should be worse.

[jmorris]

the giraud trimmer imo is just a better piece of gear vs the dillon trimmer, bevel in and out, isnt it?
But the trimming every brass without handling it on the dillon progressive is just awesome....
For 1000 a year it will be fine. Using one of the pencil sharpener style trimmers for a lot of cases at once quickly gets old. I can size and trim 1800 cases an hour using a Dillon trimmer on a 650, much faster than by hand and no sore or blistered fingers.

[angus6]

Actually the long range competitors can. While I have never not chamfered, I do get noticeably better groups and elevation using a VLD chamfer verse a 45 degree chamfer. No chamfer should be worse.

Well I'm thinking that the OP isn't looking at long range competition as he's looking at the 1050 not a Arbor Press

[M-Tecs]

Well I'm thinking that the OP isn't looking at long range competition as he's looking at the 1050 not a Arbor Press

I don't know what the OP's usage will be, however, every round of my long range competition ammo is loaded on a 650 or 1050. The one 1050 is set for 223 and the other is set for 308. The 6mm Br, 6mm Dasher, 6mm XC and the 6.5 x 284 get loaded on a 650. All of these will hold 1/2" MOA out to 600 yards until the pipe starts to go than it is switched to a prairie dog rifle. My current AR match rifle turned prairie dog rifle will only hold 3/4" to 7/8" MOA out to 300 but it has over 7,000 rounds through it.

David Tubb uses a 550 as do a fair number of the long range and F-class shooters.

Poor technique and short cuts have the same effect regardless if it's on an arbor press, single station or progressive.

[kryogen]

reloading 308 on a 650 is as good as on the Forster coax ?

[M-Tecs]

It can be with the proper technique. If you just dump stuff in the 650 and pull the handle you will just get "stuff" out of it. I am not saying that is bad. I do it with my cowboy action ammo since the only real requirement is that it goes bang. For my 600 to 1,000 yard ammo it get neck annealed and chamfered every loading.

I use the Bench-Source annealing machine http://www.bench-source.com/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/01/shot-show-report-new-bench-source-case-neck-annealer/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXzARG5Qz0

Each charge is weighted. Dillon makes a funnel for this http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/catid/3/pid/23633/Plastic_Funnel

I don't have a coax but my case runouts are generally better than my buddies with his coax. One of the reasons I don't have a coax.

Quality ammunition is about consistency. Match grade ammunition is quality ammunition with more attention to case prep. The progressives just do these faster than others. Control your variables and it will be all great ammo. Take short cuts and you have short cut ammo.

Forster Co-Ax or Dillon 550b?
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=418875

[warf73]

That annealer would make it so much faster making 22TCM brass cut down from 223.

[M-Tecs]

That annealer would make it so much faster making 22TCM brass cut down from 223.

The Bench-Source works great and I love it. A buddy has the Giraud http://www.giraudtool.com/annealer1.htm. I have not seen it run yet bet he loves it and says it works great also. I purchased the Bench-Source from the first run at the intro price (much better than current price). Both are great machines.

This is a Giraud with an induction heat. It is very cool!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL4eNCgm-C8

Like most cool things the induction heater is not cheap http://www.fluxeon.com/buyflux/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=66

[montana_charlie]

The Bench-Source works great and I love it. A buddy has the Giraud http://www.giraudtool.com/annealer1.htm. I have not seen it run yet bet he loves it and says it works great also. I purchased the Bench-Source from the first run at the intro price (much better than current price). Both are great machines.

This is a Giraud with an induction heat. It is very cool!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL4eNCgm-C8

Like most cool things the induction heater is not cheap http://www.fluxeon.com/buyflux/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=66
Here is the new one at Sage Outfitters.
http://www.sageoutfitters.com/page/page/7184637.htm

[Wis. Tom]

Kryogen, after reading 8 pages on this, did I miss the ending? What did you end up buying? How is it working for you? I just saw a 650 listed on Armslist, that was just the other town over from me, but it was gone in 10 min. after listing. It was listed for $600, but had multiple dies, setup, bullets, and miss. things with it.

[kryogen]

will probably buy a 1050 and switch dies (with lockrings on them), to keep cost down (and it's mostly for 1 caliber anyway, with some 223).

What makes me go 1050 is the swage. Most of my 223 and 9mm are swaged, and it's all mixed brass. I don't feel like handling those 1 by one to swage when the primer jams. I want something reliable that I can crank and forget.

The only issue is that they are about 3500$ delivered in canada now with the shipping and poor exchange rate. Quite a large chunk of money to reload 9mm.

I don't think that I'll buy a 650, because in the end it's only 1000$ less, and I'll regret it from the day I order it until the end of my life....
Plus I can always re-sell the 1050 if I don't need it anymore.

Being it canada, this ends up costing twice as much..... 500$ CAN shipping, and 1.25x the price with exchange rate, + 15% tax....

Didnt order yet.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Try BrianEnos.com. You may save a significant amout on shipping. I dont know for sure, but it would sure be worth a call or email to check.

Brian is a great guy to deal with. I have bought a boat load from him in the past 10 years or so with nary a problem.

Good luck!

[kryogen]

ok I will ask him. Dillon shipping price is close to 500$ CAN for a 1050..... that's a lot of money just to ship a press... that pisses me off a bit.
does brian sell to canada?

[kryogen]

Looks like I might get one close to where I live and save the shipping costs.
Not sure they have a 1050 in stock though, if they dont ill have to pass...

[kryogen]

looks like they just order from dillon, and charge me everything. Will just order from dillon I guess.
Brian enos cannot sell to canada.

[quasi]

you will save a lot of money if you can ship it to a border and go pick up. Dillons shipping method to Canada is very expensive.

[spuddicus]

I don't know if it's been covered yet but the super 1050 only comes with a 1 year warranty.... I had an issue with some .223 dies and since I said I was using them on a 1050 'I had worn them out and could purchase a new one' at the supplied link they gave me.

So I waited a few months and said I was reloading on my 650 (true) and didn't mention the 1050 they had me send it in and wound up replacing it. Small parts wear out eventually. I you don't mind having to buy the smaller parts the 1050 ultimately will do more for you with each handle pull. If you want to be able to take advantage of the lifetime warranty, I'd vote the 650

And yes, I have both.

[kryogen]

you will save a lot of money if you can ship it to a border and go pick up. Dillons shipping method to Canada is very expensive.

I would prefer that, but I know no safe way to do it. I don't trust the freight forwarding companies. I am 9 hours from the border, and I have nowhere to ship it anyway that I trust, so I'll probably end up having to pay expensive shipping.

[kryogen]

Ordered a fully loaded 650 today. Thanks for all comments.

I decided against the 1050 for the following reasons:

priming on the downstroke, no feel. I didn't like that on the loadmaster.
more expensive
more expensive/complicated to changer calibers.
no lifetime warranty
And, I only reload 2-3k a year, in mixed calibers. (mostly 9mm and 223).
Most of my 223 brass is already swaged. (and you can always use a uniquetek swager on the 650), but I do have a super swage 600 for the few brass that are not swaged already.
I did not see an advantage for me to go with a 1050 considering my needs.

[steelworker]

Congrats!!!!! You will love it.

[toallmy]

well when you set it up and run it for a wile , let us know how you like it . I have watched the show . I nead to go progresive , but I have more time.

[kryogen]

Hopefully it will solve some of the issues that I have with the loadmaster. (unreliable priming, no case feeder).
The most important feature, to me, is the casefeeder. Makes processing large batches much faster. Reliable priming is also a huge plus.
Hoping to enjoy it a lot.

[Wis. Tom]

Check out Dillon 600 super swage, mounts on your bench. It's at Graf and Sons for $100.99. Very slick for 556/223 military for anyone doing alot of primer pockets.

[jmorris]

Hopefully it will solve some of the issues that I have with the loadmaster. (unreliable priming, no case feeder).


The only problem some have with the 650 priming system is that it always delivers primers (case or no case a new primer is there every stroke) but there are ways to stop them.

The case feed is also a lot less Mickey Mouse than the Loadmaster as is indexing and if your setting up and short stroke the press, it won't lock up.

The only thing that you may have to pay attention to coming from a load master is seating the primer. It is done on the down stroke by pushing the handle towards the frame and is done by "feel" not a set stop.

[kryogen]

Check out Dillon 600 super swage, mounts on your bench. It's at Graf and Sons for $100.99. Very slick for 556/223 military for anyone doing alot of primer pockets.

I have and use one, as I said in post 156.
Used it to process my 1000 223 cases. It works, but it's a bit annoying to process 1000 cases with it. If I had to do it again I would use the uniquetek swager on the 650.
One thing that helps that I have learned, is to cut a case in half, and then you can actually see how much you need to adjust it to swage properly but not too much.

[Wis. Tom]

Are you getting the uniquetek swager with your setup?. I like my 600 but before that it was an electric drill...LOL Just went back and read your other post and see what you said about swaging, Sorry. Back to post.

[kryogen]

I am not getting it right now because 95% of my 223 brass is already swaged and I just reuse it.
if i buy another batch of 1000 1f cases ill buy one and use it. The dillon super swage works fine but like i said i dont have the patience to use it on large batches

[jmorris]

Didn't go back and read the last 8 pages but the swage on the 1050 is of great benefit over the 650.

[kryogen]

it wasnt worth the 1000$ price difference to me, plus the important additional cost of caliber changes.

I reload probably less than 2000 rounds a year, so the 650 was already severely overkill.
Switching calibers easily was a concern also.

If one day I do serious reloading of just one caliber, I might consider the 1050, but right now, I would rather buy a 650 + a star, vs just a 1050 with the same money.

[Fishman]

You might check out the primer ramp "fix" for the 650 made by Smoke, a vendor sponsor here. He 3d prints the part and it is less than $10. It prevents primers from flying off the chute and on the floor when a case isn't present in the reprime station. I have one and it fits nicely.

[rodsvet]

I'm not going to read the last 8 pages. What made my decision to go with the 650 was the lifetime no B/S warranty. The 1050 is only one year. The extra $1,000 and limited warranty made up my mind for me. I've been running this 650 for over 20 years and it has had broken parts and alignment problem, but never cost a cent to make right. Thank you Mr. Dillon!

[mozeppa]

I have three 650's and two 1050's. I am going to be buried with the 1050's.
isn't hades a little to hot for gun powder?:bigsmyl2::kidding:

[M-Tecs]

isn't hades a little to hot for gun powder?:bigsmyl2::kidding:

Just in case hades is humid I have added a RL1000 to the stable. The stainless steel will prevent rust. Hopefully the Hornady Extreme Temperature powder will withstand the heat. Got to plan ahead.

[kryogen]

I got the press today, wow that press is solid and build quality is awesome. Finish is #1. Cant wait to try it.

[stranded1980]

I really recommend watching the Dillon instruction manual video before using it. The older version of the video is available on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O31fBMaFB4

[kryogen]

The included booklet was ok to setup the whole press.
Didn't take very long.
I find the 8.5 inch strongmount a bit too high, I would have preferred the 6 inch 650 only one. I'll see with my seller in canada if we can swap.
The only glitch imo is the unused primer drop that isnt really deep enough to contain all primers. It's more like a primer slide and jump on the floor assembly.
There should have been a small bin like the spent primer bin.

Feel is very good, press is very solid, case feeder and feeding system are top notch, priming is 100% reliable.
It's a joy to reload with that press.

[David2011]

Enjoy the 650! A woman I know loads at another friend's house on his 650. She usually loads 2000 rounds of .40 S&W in one visit of 2-3 hours. You'll be happy with the production.

David

[kryogen]

Yup it's ridiculously fast.

I am waiting on the delivery of my mini mr bullet feeder also, will make it even faster with batches of FMJ.

Probably won't really work with grease though.

[warf73]

Yup it's ridiculously fast.

I am waiting on the delivery of my mini mr bullet feeder also, will make it even faster with batches of FMJ.

Probably won't really work with grease though.

Once you get it set up and running would you mind sending me via IM some pics and your option of it. I'm on the fence about getting it and would like to know if its worth it from someone who has one.

Thanks Robert

[kryogen]

Once you get it set up and running would you mind sending me via IM some pics and your option of it. I'm on the fence about getting it and would like to know if its worth it from someone who has one.
Thanks Robert

Totally worth it IMO.

I like seating primers by feel, even though you have to push a bit forward, I can "feel" every primer going in, and I can feel it "not going in" also, or could feel a loose primer pocket, etc. I feel safer that way.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Totally worth it IMO.

I like seating primers by feel, even though you have to push a bit forward, I can "feel" every primer going in, and I can feel it "not going in" also, or could feel a loose primer pocket, etc. I feel safer that way.

I think warf73 wanted your opinion of the mini mr bullet feeder.

[kryogen]

oh, I will hopefully get it this week. I'll use it for FMJ reloading mostly.
I just wanted to try it. Much more gentle on lead cast.
If I can get a load to stop leading also, I might re-try hitek. If I can hitek lead bullets, I could also use the feeder for it.

Will report once I get it.
It's faster to reload a mag with 2 hands and then just rock and roll the handle vs placing a bullet every time on top of the case, etc etc. I am sure.
When doing a few hundreds of rounds it's going to be faster.
Of course, if you are shooting thousands a month, I would get the real thing with the motor.

I honestly don't shoot much, maybe 1-2k a year. I reload and cast for fun.

[warf73]

Alvarez Kelly is spot on I've already got a 650 up and running just wanting the option of someone who has the mini bullet feeder.

Currently I can load up just over 600 380acp an hour at a leisurely pace, that includes clearing the occasional 9mm that I missed.

When my girlfriend bought the press she ordered the powder cop, but using this Hodgdon CFE Pistol powder it drops very consistent and no real need for the cop. I've checked a lot of cases using this powder (and fine tuning the powder cop) and the charge is supposed to be 3.7grs and it drops 3.6~3.7grs every time I check it.

So replacing the cop with a bullet feeder would be nice and might get me to 1000 rounds an hour. I would like to sit down and load up 2~3 thousand and change the press over to 357 or 40.

Thanks Robert

[jmorris]

just wanting the option of someone who has the mini bullet feeder.

I have had a number of different bullet feeders, none were much improvement without collators. Some like the Lee for example were worse than not having it.

The MBF is a good product, would be my #2 choice for the 650 or 1050.


So replacing the cop with a bullet feeder would be nice and might get me to 1000 rounds an hour.

What I meant by "improvement" above is that at some point, without a collator, you will have to pick up and place each bullet base down into something, be it a tube or case.

Add a collator and you eliminate the handling of each bullet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl63cR9Y_Y0

[jmorris]

You still have to stop to fill the primer tube and collators but that takes much less time that filling tubes by hand.

with a vibraprime or better yet the RF100 you can load more than 1000/hr pretty easy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WTZ-_v6Mks

[kryogen]

I got the strongmount with my 650, but it feels too high to me even on a regular bench... maybe I should have gotten the lower 6 inch mount vs the 8.5 for 550/650.

The collator bullet feeders are much better. It's just that they are 600$ CAD or so, and I don't reload enough to justify the expense. Same thing applies to the 1050.

You eventually have to stop somewhere.... or I would have a 1050 with a bullet feeder and collator. But that would have been close to 2000$ CAD more, and seriously, I have already spent 2500$CAD or so on the 650 with options. That's already overkill for me.

[jmorris]

You eventually have to stop somewhere.... or I would have a 1050 with a bullet feeder and collator. But that would have been close to 2000$ CAD more, and seriously, I have already spent 2500$CAD or so on the 650 with options. That's already overkill for me.

MA Systems were the only people that made collators when I first needed one but they were over $1000, so I have made all of mine vs buying them.

This is where I stopped.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU

[warf73]

You still have to stop to fill the primer tube and collators but that takes much less time that filling tubes by hand.

with a vibraprime or better yet the RF100 you can load more than 1000/hr pretty easy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WTZ-_v6Mks


I load all my tubes with the vibraprime unit, I load 10 tubes and ready to go.

That bullet feeder in this post is that a modified GSI set up?

[kryogen]

Placing bullets 1 by 1 on top of the cases is clearly the slowest thing in the process now.

[jmorris]

That bullet feeder in this post is that a modified GSI set up?

The feeder/tool heads are GSI's I build my collators out of 6" PVC because I am cheap and they work.

[kryogen]

Ok I installed and tested the MINI mr bulletfeeder with 124RN plated bullets today.
It works as advertised.
You need to setup the new 2 step powder funnel. It's shorter than the dillon funnel (why?) so you need to screw the die in quite a bit. Not that it will matter much, because it works much better than the dillon funnel and you will never need to switch back. Even if you place bullets by hand, they just fit much better with that funnel. I would not go back.(like an M die, there is a 2mm or so step at 358, so the bullet just drops into the first 2mm of the case and centers easily, and doesnt move or tip when indexing.)

Adjusting the die is easy. They say that when a bullet drops you need to give it another quarter turn, but it took more like half a turn to make it feed reliably for me. Not an issue, just try, if it fails to drop sometimes, give it another 1/8, try again.... until it drops all the time. Just did 100 rounds, 100% success. Works really well. It's an aluminum die so do not over tighten the lock nut.

My point of view is that it's a really nice addition to the press if you want something better than placing bullets by hand, and do not want to buy the big thing with the collator because you don't reload enough to justify the cost.

You have to fill the tubes, but it's much faster to fill tubes right on the bench next to you, and then crank the handle like crazy, vs picking one bullet at a time and centering it over a case slowly.

It just makes loading 100 rounds boring fast. It probably took me 5 minutes or so to process the 100 rounds. Well, to me, that is a plus, because with the baby I cannot have a ton of reloading time, so I know that I can just go in the garage, fill tubes(maybe 2 min), use the vibra prime to load 100 primers(2 min), and 10 minutes later I'm out of the garage with 100 rounds.

One thing I can say about the 650, is that it's not the best thing if you want to "play around" with different loads, bullets, load a few of X, a few of Y, a few of Z.
It wants to feed cases, your tube of cases is full, primers are full, and if you crank the handle, cases and primers are going in, and it will index. It's not so easy to "stop" and clear the shellplate, so if you plan to reload just 100 or so at a time, leave everything there with the handle down and rounds still on the shellplate. Or, the best thing with the 650 would probably be to reload a few months worth and then clear everything.

I will probably keep doing my test runs on the loadmaster, with brass that I will have sized and primed and on the 650. If you hand feed sized and primed brass on the loadmaster, it's really easy to do small test runs and adjust as you go. Then once a load works and you want to produce a lot, adjust the 650 and crank rounds.

[jmorris]

It wants to feed cases, your tube of cases is full, primers are full, and if you crank the handle, cases and primers are going in,

If you want to stop the flow of the case feed and primer feed you need a coat hanger and something to bend and cut it.

For the case feed you need to form it like this. (Parts removed so I could take photos)

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/650/IMG_20160113_160707_848_zpsdy7zxdp2.jpg

And install it like this.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/650/IMG_20160113_160618_996_zps05jbrjvz.jpg

For the primer feed you need to form it like this.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/650/IMG_20160113_161041_071_zpsmbdpxfqo.jpg

And install it like this.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/650/IMG_20160113_161020_001_zpstpguoec3.jpg

For primers you can also just use a ziptie in a loop over the failsafe rod bracket to hold the primer index arm back but everyone has a wire hanger in there house, unless their mom is "Mommy dearest".

[kryogen]

Jesus man.

[jmorris]

An even simpler case feed stop.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/650/IMG_20160114_083814_750_zps11b9qkik.jpg

[kryogen]

the 9mm case trick works wonderfully thanks
I guess it would be a bad idea to keep this spring compressed for a long time?

[jmorris]

the 9mm case trick works wonderfully thanks
I guess it would be a bad idea to keep this spring compressed for a long time?

From an ammunition loading stand point it would be for sure as you have to work around everything to insert a case into the shell plate.

Springs are not all the same but the ones in my engines and suspensions all have springs that have been compressed since the day they were installed. Recoil and magazine springs too, cycling is generally what wears out springs.

[VHoward]

the 9mm case trick works wonderfully thanks
I guess it would be a bad idea to keep this spring compressed for a long time?
No, but if it does break, Dillon will replace it for you.

[kryogen]

Update:

The case works to stop the casefeeder. I do that.
To stop the primers, I just remove the plastic indexing ramp, takes 2 seconds.

The swage-it 650 doesnt swage much honestly. You still have to push the primers in hard and they "pop" in. Gets tiring when doing many hundred in a row.

Unless you have a 1050, it's probably better to just buy pre-processed 223 cases and not bother with swaging. For the cost difference, it's not really worth the trouble to swage yourself. With 3000 cases or so, I'm good for a lifetime of reloading 223 anyway. It's just not worth the trouble to swage 3000 cases without a 1050 for the cost difference of processed 1f brass from a commercial brass reseller. It would have cost less to get swaged brass vs buying the swage it + the super swage anyway.

Overall impressions:

I HATE pushing the handle in to prime and push the case. The 1050 would be easier to work with. But then it's 1000$ cad more, plus the added cost of toolheads. Probably 1500$ more.
If I had to do it again, I would just get the 1050 and save the swage/push trouble. But now I have a 650 and I'll keep it.

If you can afford it, the 1050 is the better option.

[jmorris]

With 3000 cases or so, I'm good for a lifetime of reloading 223 anyway. It's just not worth the trouble to swage 3000 cases without a 1050 for the cost difference of processed 1f brass from a commercial brass reseller.

The only problem with that is if you shoot with someone or somewhere you may pick up others brass.

I leave most 3 gun matches with more brass than I cam there with, so all of my brass gets treated the same.

If you just buy brass to use yourself and it all stays together with no "strangers" mixing with them, that would work. Might also be worth getting an X die at that point too.

[kryogen]

yup, should have bought the 1050, but I'm not taking a loss on the 650 to switch it for a 1050, and I don't reload enough to justify buying a 1050 now anyway. Maybe later in life if I shoot more.

The 650 isnt a bad machine, I reloaded 800 rounds of 9mm and 800 rounds of 223 on it yesterday in a few hours. Just sucks to push the handle in.

What I really enjoy with the dillon press is that you never adjust it. It just cranked 800 rounds of each without needing any adjustment while reloading. Everything went fine.


With the lee, everything would need to be readjusted or re-tightened every 100 rounds or so. shell holder prongs, turret, powder measure, shellplate, etc etc... plus the lack of case feeder.

I use the mr bullet feeder die, and I just put bullets in the die as I load. That way I don't have to position bullets on the cases, it's much faster, and I don't fill the tubes.
It's not really slower than with a collator. By the time I cycle the press, the bullet is in and I just never stop.... bullet feeder makes sense for an automated press though, imo. like a 1050 with autodrive.

[jeep45238]

yup, should have bought the 1050, but I'm not taking a loss on the 650 to switch it for a 1050, and I don't reload enough to justify buying a 1050 now anyway. Maybe later in life if I shoot more.

The 650 isnt a bad machine, I reloaded 800 rounds of 9mm and 800 rounds of 223 on it yesterday in a few hours. Just sucks to push the handle in.

What I really enjoy with the dillon press is that you never adjust it. It just cranked 800 rounds of each without needing any adjustment while reloading. Everything went fine.


With the lee, everything would need to be readjusted or re-tightened every 100 rounds or so. shell holder prongs, turret, powder measure, shellplate, etc etc... plus the lack of case feeder.

I use the mr bullet feeder die, and I just put bullets in the die as I load. That way I don't have to position bullets on the cases, it's much faster, and I don't fill the tubes.
It's not really slower than with a collator. By the time I cycle the press, the bullet is in and I just never stop.... bullet feeder makes sense for an automated press though, imo. like a 1050 with autodrive.

Then you're not pulling the handle fast enough!

I kid, I kid (mostly) - although I did rig up my Mr Bullet feeder collator to a Lee Bulletfeeder today for sizing on a single stage, and I damn near outran the collator at full tilt. Can't do that on my 650, but there's no way orienting the bullet and dropping it in a die by hand is anywhere near as quick as a collator system.

[jmorris]

It's not really slower than with a collator.

I did it both ways, even ran case feed without collators. Not a chance you can get close to the same speed without a lot more work.

Its not unlike being able to cycle faster by hand than an automated machine.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-RxMulCqbQ

However, you have to stop at some point to fill things up. If you had just been keeping the "auto" fed, you would have more ammo loaded in the same time, same goes for collators.

Doesn't take a PHD in mathematics to understand that the time at "0" production is what kills the average. Like Aesop's tortoise and the hare, you can do a lot of work really fast but the zero production will still make you loose the race.

[kryogen]

I load at least as fast as you do loading bullets in the die by hand. I put a bullet in the die when the handle is down, by the time the handle is up I have a bullet in my hand, and by the time the handle is down, it's in the die. I don't stop. Bullet feeding is faster than press cycling....
I'm not saying that it doesnt have a use, but maybe not for 1-2k rounds a year.

[jmorris]

I load at least as fast as you do loading bullets in the die by hand.

Yeah, I generally load at a rate that doesn't seem like I am rushing things or making too much work. Turns out that's around 4 min/hundred, easy, just stroking and keeping eyes on areas of interest. In contrast 9.5 min per hundred is "work" for me for a press without case and bullet feed doing everything and keeping eyes on.

The limit of my ability to pull the handle and eye powder is closer to 2.5 min/100 but that again turns it into work.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La83ZVKnBzw

Kind of like the auto press in the last post, while I can load myself faster than the 5 min/100 it can, it is absolutely no work for me to let it do it.

[PowPow]

yup, should have bought the 1050, but I'm not taking a loss on the 650 to switch it for a 1050, and I don't reload enough to justify buying a 1050 now anyway. Maybe later in life when I shoot more. ...

FIFY

I just read through this thread today. It was fun watching your process sway back and forth. I'm glad you settled on something and got the loads flowing. Congrats on young one. I started my boy shooting last fall. He's seven.

I started with a 550, but I also have more cartridges to deal with. I expect one day to be faced with the addition of one or more presses. I think my first upgrade will be a second 550 for large primers and use my existing for small. Next up would be a 650/1050 for volume 9mm/45acp.

[flyingrhino]

My opinion is 650. The 1050 is no doubt a great machine. I considered picking up a 1050 to add to my blue collection but the cost of conversions turned me off. I built a case feeder and bullet feeder for my 650 and use it to load .223, 300 BO, 45acp, 45 LC, 38/357, 9mm.

[stanford]

This is an awesome thread, I have been thinking lately about a 650 or 1050. I work with this guy who has owned both, he used to be into competitive shooting and doesn't shoot that much anymore. But he was telling me that when he purchased his 650 many years ago, as he was loading one of the primers got stuck and blew up the tube. Thats when he switched to the 1050 and never had any issues.

Lately I had been looking at what others had to say about the exploding situation on the 650. I saw a few videos online that mentioned the 650 and exploding primers, that is pretty scary for me and it kind of turned me off from even considering a 650. Was there ever a fix for this problem as the videos I saw was very recent.

Also when you look at price the 1050 is like 2k compared to 1k for the 650.

[Zacf16]

I've got a 650 and love it. Never had any problems with primers. I put a weaker spring under the indexing ball bearing for the shell plate, and it has worked great ever since. Lifetime warranty, too.

[starreloader]

Have never had a primer problem with my XL650 or the two (2) RL1000's.. Have loaded many K's of ammo on those 3 presses over 30+ years.. Did however blow a stack of primers in (1) one of my STAR Loaders years ago.

[stanford]

Cool, looks like I will have to consider the 650 again. When it comes to swaging the primer pocket how are you guys doing it if you have a 650? I noticed on the 1050 it has that built in (i think) The only rifle shells I will be loading will be a lot of .223 and .308.

[dragon813gt]

Primer pocket swaging needs to be handled off press w/ a 650. There is an aftermarket swager for it but it voids the warranty.

[jmorris]

Primer pocket swaging needs to be handled off press w/ a 650. There is an aftermarket swager for it but it voids the warranty.

Not only that but it doesn’t work as well because it lacks a backup rod, like decent swagers have.

[David2011]

This is an awesome thread, I have been thinking lately about a 650 or 1050. I work with this guy who has owned both, he used to be into competitive shooting and doesn't shoot that much anymore. But he was telling me that when he purchased his 650 many years ago, as he was loading one of the primers got stuck and blew up the tube. Thats when he switched to the 1050 and never had any issues.

Lately I had been looking at what others had to say about the exploding situation on the 650. I saw a few videos online that mentioned the 650 and exploding primers, that is pretty scary for me and it kind of turned me off from even considering a 650. Was there ever a fix for this problem as the videos I saw was very recent.

Also when you look at price the 1050 is like 2k compared to 1k for the 650.

After loading close to 90,000 .40 S&Ws and various quantities of other cartridges on my 650 I can't say that I have had a live primer problem. Maybe twice in all that time I have failed to empty the spent primer cup which kept ejected primers from falling free and that hung things up but those were dead primers so it wasn't dangerous and it was completely my fault.

The way Dillon primer magazines are designed any chain explosion would be contained within the magazine and directed upward rather than outward. If you keep the primer system clean and free of lubricants that can cause dirt and grit to collect it will run smoothly. A well known 1911 'smith convinced me to try CCI primers in my 650. He said they ran better in his 650 than any other primer he had tried. I bought a case and he was right. I have some old CCI primers in tan and even some in the old green and black packages and they do not run as smoothly as the more recent ones in the blue-black box. Federals run OK but I do have one go in crooked from time to time.

The most important thing I can think of for any progressive press is to have a really stiff, strong bench. Mine is attached to the wall of the room with 3-1/2" sheet rock screws going into the studs. If a progressive press shakes and vibrates you WILL have primer feed issues. It's also attached to a 1/2" thick 6"x12" steel plate. There's a 2x12 chunk of lumber under the 3/4" ply top that connects the front and back 2x4s that support the top of the bench and the steel plate is through bolted through the 3/4 ply and the 2x12. You don't need the piece of steel but you do need a really solid bench.