454 progress

[dk17hmr]

I found a little bit of time today to play with my Ruger 454. I have been trying to get the Lee 300gr gas check bullet to shoot decent. I had 20 rounds loaded for about 2 weeks of 28gr of Lil'Gun, Remington 6 1/2 primers, Remington brass and the 300gr Lee.

Recoil wasnt to bad but the Ruger factory grips have to go on my gun. At 50 yards I was averaging about 3" for 6 shots. Not to bad but I am wanting 3" at 100 yards with the gun, thats my goal anyways.

I also loaded some 340gr bullets in it with 7gr of Trailboss. Recoil wasnt much accuracy was pretty good but groups were 2 foot low from my point of aim. Just wanted to try them for the heck of it.

Anyone have any suggestions.

I think I am going to switch primers to CCI 400's. I tried Remington 7 1/2 benchrest primers and wasnt happy with them from the start. They wouldnt seat very well went to the 6 1/2 and that was better but I think that might be the problem right now with groups. I dont know how but I have a feeling that is it though.


My little gun
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/454.jpg

[Whitworth]

dk -- I put a set of Hogue Tamers on my SRH in .475 Linebaugh and will be doing the same to my .454 SRH. They are standard fare on the Alaskan models and are quite comfortable. Here's a picture of my .475 with those grips. I haven't started reloading for my Casull, but am interested in your load development. I do shoot heavy bullets in mine and it kills well (especially with 400 grain WFNs).

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/MarkoR/DSC02676.jpg

[Johnch]

In my 7 1/2' SRH
I load Rem 7 1/2 in Hornady cases , as I got a bunch of the brass real cheap

I am loading 2400 with the Lee 300 gr bullet ( older 2 gang mould , not the new profile )
Can't put my hands on my load notes right now
But I remember I backed off a fair amount from the jacketed data

I hunt with my loads running 1450FPS and I am getting 4" groups at 110 yds

John

[454PB]

Have you chrongraphed that Lil'Gun load? What do your Lee boolits weigh?

I use the same recipe so I'm curious. I've had some problems with CCI 450 primers, the cups are thicker than the CCI 400 and the RSRH won't set them off.

[dk17hmr]

I didnt get the chrono out today, I would guess in the 1600fps range. My bullets were about 305gr checked and lubed.

I have a box of Hornady factory ammo that I havent shot yet, waiting for some better weather so I can have something to gauge my reloads with.

My dad and I went to a gun show yesterday and I bought 100 1x fired Starline 454 for $25, the guy had 3 bags and now I am thinkin I should have bought all 3.

I have noticed there is a little play in the cyclinder, very little, is this going to effect me?

[44man]

Don't worry about the cylinder play! It actually aids accuracy. The first thing I would do is get rid of the Lil'Gun. It sounds like you are looking for top velocity first and accuracy second.
Go to 296 and start with the starting load and work up 1/2 gr at a time to find the sweet spot.
I doubt the gun is going to give you top accuracy at the highest velocity, it will be a little under.
What lube are you using? If it is LLA, try a better lube.

[runfiverun]

you hopefully have measured your cylinders and throats
forcing cone and bbl
you gotta make the boolit fit if you want the accuracy, or make them all the same.
and i would bet 44man could help with that

[dk17hmr]

I bought the pound of Lil Gun just because. Grouping is more important to me then velocity, so far Lil Gun is producing better groups then Bluedot, 2400, 4227, but not Trailboss when loaded in 45lc cases with 260gr plain base at less then 800fps. I have a can of Enforce by Ramshot on the way once my local shop gets there powder order in.

To show my ignorance I havent measure anything, I sized my bullets to .452 and went to town with them. The lighter much slower (trailboss) bullets sized a .452 do very well in my opinion at 50 yards so I figured it would be alright with the heavier bullets.

The only thing I use LLA for is bulk ACP and 9mm bullets. Everything else is a homemade lube until I get my Lyman 45 set up with a die and nose punch. My homemade lube is somewhat soft but is working well.

[crabo]

If you don't want to measure, just try pushing a sized, unloaded bullet through your cylinder. That will tell you if the cylinder is swaging them down before they even hit the forcing cone. Then you will probably find that the forcing cone area, where it is screwed into the barrel, is tighter than the muzzle if you use a push through slug. Time to firelapp, IMO.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with 44man ive never had any gun give its best accuracy with lilgun. Id buy a lb of 110 or 296 if i were you. Ive also not had the best luck in the 454 with rem primers. ww and ccis seem to do slightly better. then if you can save some money buy yourself the rcbs 300 swcgc. that bullet shoots extreamly well in all my 45s and does well at 900 fps out of a 45 colt and at 1700 fps out of a 454.

[Dr. A]

I agree with 44man ive never had any gun give its best accuracy with lilgun. Id buy a lb of 110 or 296 if i were you. Ive also not had the best luck in the 454 with rem primers. ww and ccis seem to do slightly better. then if you can save some money buy yourself the rcbs 300 swcgc. that bullet shoots extreamly well in all my 45s and does well at 900 fps out of a 45 colt and at 1700 fps out of a 454.

Loose that Lee Boolit!


I'll agree with that 300RCBS SWC. I use AA#9 and start about 20gr. and go up from there. My accuracy is best with Winchester primers and Starline brass. Lee 300gr. never did me any favors. The throats in my SRH are right on target, which is unlike my new 45 COLT Redhawk. I also have luck with H110, but prefer the AA#9 for a bit better accuracy.

[44man]

Thats strange, every Lee, LBT and boolits from my own molds beat every single semi wadcutter I ever shot from any of my guns. The Lee boolit has shot into 1" at 75 yd's from my Vaquero. The Lyman 452651 has also done 1" at 75 yd's. The Lee .44 and .475 boolits are also extremely accurate.
I have a pile of Keith style molds from RCBS, Lyman, etc and they only get used for plinking, none are accurate enough for long range or for small groups.
For super groups I gave up on Keith boolits long ago.

[runfiverun]

i'm with 44 on this swc's do fine to maybe 50 yds
i for some strange reason like rnfp's

[454PB]

Also strange.....Lil'Gun groups better in my guns than either H-110 or WW296.

[Lloyd Smale]

I sure dont agree on the swc theroys. Some of my most accurate loads are with them. Ill admit to like lfns too but ive yet to see a wfn or rf that will shoot at long range with a good swc. A 100 yards is not long range. Most full wadcutters will stay stable out to a 100 yards. Shoot them out past 300 and you will see what happens. Sure ive seen a couple wfns that hold out to 300 but there rare and to find one that will shoot to 500 is something ive yet to find. As to accuracy at short range. In the 45colts and 454s i shoot ( and i shoot a pile of them) probably the most accurate overall bullet ive found is the rcbs 300 swcgc. Ive yet to find a gun of any make that didnt like that bullet. Ive got a pile of heavy 45 molds and the only other one that even comes close to the rcbs in inherant accuracy is the ballistic cast 320 lfngc. Both of these bullets will shoot well and arent fussy.

You dont need to push them hard to get them to shoot. Ive shot a pile of the lee and lyman rf bullets. Sure you can make them shoot but unless your a lucky sob your going to work at it. Then when its all said and done you still have ubs (ugly bullet syndrom) Sure theres some crap swc designs out there but there not near as prevelent as crap wfns and even worse wlfns. WLFNs are bad enough that i think if you remelted them theyd contaminate a good bullet. 44man weve talked before and you know i respect your opinion. Theres alot of people that will speak up and defend a bullet that think if they can hit a beer can at 25 yards its a good design. I know you shoot yours. You bench and shoot long range just as i do. I wouldnt even jump to defend a bullet unless ive shot thousands of them and shot them in differnt guns and at short and long range. I just cant figure out how you have such good luck with those fricking wfns when i dont. I know some of the best big bore shooters in the country. Ive gone to a few linebaugh seminars and have partisipated in many long range shoots and have even won a couple. Ive got friends that spend not hours but weeks testing long range and even film the bullets in flight and to a one they will all stand up and say they have no use for a wfn.

Ive got quite a few wfn molds. Ive picked them up over the years mostly used at good prices. Ive yet to have one be the best bullet in any gun i own and again i own more handguns then the average guy. You cant blame my guns as i about know ive got more custom built linebored guns then probably anyone here but 2dogs. Personaly i cant even remember a wfn every being the best shooting bullet at 25 yards in a gun let alone a 100. Ive had a few instances where rfs have been great short range bullets but you still have to deal with ubs. Sorry but i wont buy another round flat or wfn mold EVER! Why stuggle to make a gun shoot when you can buy a lfn and about gurantee it will shoot. Or ask around and find a swc that is just as good.

There are uses for wfns and ill admit to that. For a short range 6 gun bullet they are great hunting bullets. They do hit hard and seem to kill a tad quicker but thats a hard one to put solid evidense to. What i like them for is in the caliber challanged guns like the 357 and 41 mags. they give you a decent meplat in a small caliber that isnt there with a lfn or most swcs and if you start testing a bunch of swcs youll probably find as i did that the dud ones are usually the ones that some idiot decided needed a big metplat. Look at keiths design. No huge metplat on his bullets and they shoot great out at long range.

You can talk to me till your blue in the face but i wont buy the wfn being decent long range bullet crap. Id bet even you have to admit that if you got them to fly it took a hell of a lot of tweaking to get there and it would have been alot easier to accomplish with a lfn. So i have to ask, Why use them? Why brag them up? What are you getting out of them that you couldnt get out of a lfn? Do you know something the rest of us dont? You know me good enough to know that this isnt meant to be a sarcastic post. I just want to understand.

[Bass Ackward]

Elmer wrote once that accuracy (I am assuming he meant long range accuracy since they had wadcutters at the time) began to deteriorate at 64% meplats. Now there are reasons for this like how bullet balance is affected, which I believe to be the key along with twist rates and the barrier. The more forward the balance point of a bullet, the faster the twist that you will need to stabilize it at lower velocities. OR .... the harder you will have to push it to get accuracy. Veral wrote that himself. He also said his designs shot best in the heavier weights cause the longer the bullet, the more the center of balance comes back to at least center of mass, plus the better the BC too.

But none of my handgun designs that I make have over 60% meplats or long noses. I strive to keep the balance points to the rear and they are very flexible and forgiving. The only exception is for 357 where I will run a 70%, but my Freedom has 14 twist to handle it. If I need a larger meplat than that, then I grab a bigger gun.

[44man]

I don't know how to answer this and I do confess to using the WLN in my .44 and not getting results with a WFN. 1 in 20" twist.
However in my .475, the WFN is accurate to 500 meters. I see no difference between these 2 boolits and maybe the reason is the 1 in 15" twist.
The WLN has a 68% meplat and the WFN is 80%.
The WFN .45 Colt boolit hasn't been shot past 100 yd's because it is for my Vaquero but has proven super accurate to that distance. It's meplat is 77%.
My 45-70 BFR also will shoot any boolit I can feed it with it's 1 in 14" twist.
So, maybe you guys are right in that it is the twist rates of my guns that lets me shoot them.
Whitworth has a converted .480 SRH changed to a .475 with a 1 in 18" twist that loves my WFN to 100 yd's. I will take him to the club to compare his gun to mine at long range. Then I will have a better answer.

[felix]

Flatter the nose, longer the distance (or nose), the more twist is required. ... felix

[marsofold]

I shoot my Ruger 454Casull with 255grain lead SWCs over 9.3 grains of Trail Boss. No chronograph, but I'd estimate the velocity at slightly over 1000fps.

[44man]

The group Whitworth posted a picture of was shot at 50 yd's with my big nose boolit.
The can on the right was shot twice at 100 yd's with that boolit.
The targets are 50 yd groups from my 45-70 with the top a WLN and the bottom a WFN. Both BFR's.

[Whitworth]

The WFN that 44man designed (.475 420 grain) is as accurate as I can hope for. It will regularly shoot at or below and inch at 50 yards, and shoots as accurately at 100 as I need it to when hunting. I shot it a bit at 200 yards and my first attempt at the pig silouette at that range was successful, so I am happy with the accuracy and am not finding the stability issues I hear so much about from others about WFNs.