To smash or not to smash (22 Bator mold). That is the question...

[Land Owner]

Two days in a row, the 2nd day with a whole lot closer care, I have experienced 60% rejection on a Lee two cavity 22 Bator aluminum mold - most rejects are almost perfect but with slight deformations, some w/wrinkles on heels, some w/gaps in the driving bands, some w/deformed domes, some w/finning.

I checked the mold faces for imperfections, removing any small lead particles a time or two w/1600 grit sandpaper, reheated and recast the first day. Last Sunday I cast about 150 very good well filled out and complete bullets within a slot limit of 50.5 grains to 51.1 grains out of 500 cast made with ww/pb/sn-49/49/2. There were some, ~50, outside the slot limit that were well cast and saved for another day.

Yesterday afternoon, same mold, clean faces, careful about keeping mold temp up, RCBS Pro-Melt, increased melt temp by 50* (to 775*), and again 40% good or ~150 additional plus ~50 extras outside the slot limit.

These little pills are tough to make well. Any recommendations for correcting my proceedures?

Maybe I will just take it to the Dentist to have those cavities filled...

[JSnover]

You say the faces are clean, how about the cavity? Are you oiling it between sessions? Some do and it's not a good idea.
Also, your 2% tin should ​work but you might try adding a little. 3-4% might work better.

[Casting_40S&W]

"slight deformations, some w/wrinkles on heels, some w/gaps in the driving bands, some w/deformed domes"

Symptoms of Zinc contamination

[country gent]

Could be zinc but maybe not. Mould temp with these little bullets is critical and you have to cast fast to hold temps up. Are the vent lines clear and clean? How tight is the sprue plate? Getting the mould and sprue plate hot is a real issue with these bullets at times. Pour big sprues maybe even over filling the plate to point of run off. Im betting its an issue with the temp of the blocks and sprure plate. Clean the blocks good faces cavities and sprue plate with soap and water using a tooth brush. with an awl or sharp scribe ( point on an exacto knife will also work) clean the vent lines carefully to insure air can get out.

[ascast]

my 2 cents - all above is good - try to push the heat and speed untill you get hairs on the boolit from lead coming out the vent lines. If that don't fix, add more tin.
Is your melt really clean? the pot? dipper?

[dkf]

Your alloy temp seems good but you could try slightly higher heat in the mold, in the alloy or maybe both. Maybe loosen up the sprue plate more and see if that makes a difference. The reject rate on my .22 cal bullets are higher than any other caliber I cast for because I am very picky with them. Any little imperfection and they get remelted.

[bangerjim]

Use PRESSURE CASTING! Hold the sprue right up to the spigot and fill that way. The head pressure of the lead in your pot forces the lead into the mold.... 100% fill every time.

Watch out for any tiny jets of hot lead squirting out if you have dirt on the sprue indent or the spigot. Just wipe off with leather glove finger to clean off.

Be sure you preheat your mold to casting temp on a hotplate.

I have the Lee 6 cav Bator mold and it yields perfect boolits all the time!

Send it to me B4 destroying it!

banger-j

This works for me evertime I have a tricky mold.

[Garyshome]

I've got one used it for the first time Friday, After goofing around getting the temp correct, they started to Roll, I cast quite a few over the weekend. Today I moved on to 7.62 x 39's with an old lee 1 cavity, what a pita!

[VintageRifle]

Did you smoke the mold well? I have a couple Lee molds that require a heavy smoke to fill out well.

[Jack Stanley]

When casting the small ones I try to keep the tin level near four percent , the temperature eight hundred or above and cast fast . When the bottom of the sprue plate starts to get lead sticking to it I give that a spritz of mold release .

Casting with mostly lino does make better bullets easier in the small ones but doing it like I do I usually keep ninety percent .

Jack

[ShooterAZ]

Casting tiny boolits in my experience requires a very fast cadence. The tiny pills don't hold much heat, so you have to go fast in order to keep the mold the proper temperature.

[johnnyastro22]

I cast with the Bator mold and it's definitely the most finicky mold I use.

Cast fast, keep the pot a touch hotter & make sure you don't have zinc in your melt, it's all very good advice!
Even with all that said I don't cast much in that caliber but it's nice to know that I can. I range tested my pet load and it's accurate out to 100 yards, not hard hitting though. Are you working on a .223 load?

[MT Gianni]

Keep pouring over the sprue until your ladle is empty. If you have a bottom pour get a ladle.

[khmer6]

I don't have the lee bator mold but lots of lee.molds an Noe 22 and a mihec 22. My lee mols I had to clean verrrrry good and smoke the cavities. I would heat cycle a couple of times let cool cast a bunch and melt. Let cool. The tiny cavities of the 22 I had to cast faassssst and hot. No dilly dally. Pour break sprue and go go go. No time to check boolits. Just keep going.

[ph4570]

More tin should do it. I use straight lino for the 22s -- wonderful results.

[Land Owner]

Zinc? I hope not! I thought that I had been cautious when picking through the wheel weights. I am confident that IF there is any zinc in that pot, it would be a very tiny persentage.

I have been very picky in keeping only wrinkle free, completely filled, and smooth straight based boolits. What I can control, I thought I would. I could relax a bit, shoot some of the wrinkles, and notch across a driving band for pleasure or comparative purposes. The rejects are not really "that bad".

I am told that tiny imperfections can have rotational effects and will degrade accuracy, comparatively speaking. I have a pair of 223 Handi-rifles, the bull barrel is 1:12 for these boolits, but with a move and relocation of my bench, I have not yet returned to reloading or shooting.

I will try increasing the melt heat, recleaning the mold, resmoking the mold, clearing vent lines, adding more tin, pressure pouring and keeping copious notes. The spru plate is tight - within reason. I "worked it over" after the spru plate screw stripped (another thread). I don't oil the aluminum molds - just the steel parts, and assure that the oil is cleaned before casting heat is applied. I can't go much faster. I am almost topped out plus I get tired pouring 500+ of the little pills in one session.

Thank you for all of your replies.

[HATCH]

I cast 44 grain rcbs 22 tcm boolits with my master caster.
I have found that you really need to heat the mold up and it is critical on timing of the sprue cutting.
I had tons of issues with deformed boolits until I got my timing down packed.
On two cavity steel mold 44 grain you need to do about a 6 second cycle time.
That's lead pour to dump is 6 seconds tops

[Finster101]

I have several Lee molds and have never "smoked" any of them or needed to. Keep working with it, you'll learn what that mold likes.

[cold1]

I am a beginner so take it for what its worth.

The bator was the first mold I bought. The sprue plate can get too tight and not the bottom corners form sharp. Its trapping air so lossen the plate. The mold likes it hot! So I turn up the heat. 800+ and frequent fluxing. I was casting pure lead to begin with, the bases were getting distorted when I opened the sprue plate. I sharpened the sprue and the problem went away. WW gives me a better fill out.

I do some culls, but I am not very picky. Most culls come from when I am heating the mold up or I did not have the melt temp hig enough.

[s mac]

Keep pouring over the sprue until your ladle is empty. If you have a bottom pour get a ladle.

I'll second that.

[gwpercle]

Try a ladle with a spout, like the Lyman , fill the ladle about 1/3 full , turn mould on it's side and press spout tight against sprue hole and turn it quickly right side up and then leave a generous puddle in/on the sprue hole. I never could get consistently good casts with a bottom pour, even pressing it against the bottom spout, but the Lyman ladle and pressure cast + generous puddle will usually gets the job done. 22's aren't easy! This is the method that works best for me.
Gary
Note:
And to make sure all the Lee machining oils are out, soak the blocks in acetone for 3 or 4 hours!

[bhn22]

Yes. Your mould is not hot enough. If you're getting fins on the bases, you may be either using too much "head" pressure, or have a mechanical issue somewhere. Small bullets need to be cast a a really fast rate to heat the mould, and to keep it hot. 22s are the worst offenders. Do you preheat your mould? You could try dipping it in the melted alloy for a bit before casting. If the bullets are heavily frosted, but well filled out you have your answer. Keep casting, cooling the sprue a little extra with a damp cloth if needed to make it set up correctly. The mould will actually cool as you use it, and you will eventually find the temp it wants, and the casting pace it needs. I prefer iron moulds for little bitty bullets for the heat retention and control.

[DLCTEX]

That mould needs to be hot. Casting in a breeze or draft can cool the mould more than one would think. Bullplate lube helps me cut the sprue early and keep a fast tempo.

[MarkP]

I found the little slivers of lead frozen on the nozzle was causing issues with my (1) CAV NOE 225107 HP & and first filled cavity with my (3) cav 225107. Run a stream to flush nozzle and place mold into flowing stream. I have a (6) & (2) cav Bator and run them hotter than normal.

I tried linotype with my 225107's just to see what would happen; near perfect boolits so as the others suggested more tin will probably help. I was running the lino at 725 so 260 deg above melting point.

[Alferd Packer]

Some molds require more patience till they get broken in.
Try smoking the cavities with matches first and clean, then smoke them with a candle flame, which is thicker soot, and cast with the coating in there.
Good Luck! and don't smash - sell or give it to another caster.
But don't get rid till you really give it a hundred tries- and then some.
REALLY TRUE!

Oldy Moldy Caster

[Land Owner]

Congratulations and Thank you to the Forum!

With the recommendations and suggestions offered and used on the mould/melt/process, I went back to the pot yesterday afternoon, relocated from the front porch in the sun and the breeze into the forward edge of the garage in the shade (a big +), and cast another 300 with less than 10% rejection for minor wrinkles, and improper fill - yes that dangling participle of lead on the dripper is problematic if it gets in the mould during a pour. With the melt temp ~785*, the mould dipped into the pot on occasion to keep it hot, slightly less pressure on the spru plate, 1% more tin, the thoroughly cleaned mould was dropping slightly less dense pills (~0.20 grains), fully filled out, and some outside of the slot limit - which don't count toward the rejection rate. Now that was FUN and the frustration has eased considerably!


There remain a few "issues" yet to iron out. Intermittent fins on both the sides, nose, and the base. The base fins are due in part to a bow in the spru plate. I don't know if that occured as a result of the temperature spike or a relaxed spru plate tension. I can see daylight between the spru plate bottom and the top of the mould. Did it warp or just bow? I don't know. Is it that way at high temperature or is it that way all the time? I don't know.

When the spru plate was cold I polished it flat on 600 grit sandpaper that was on top of a 2" thick piece of milled surface steel. It was flush with the steel at that point. When the fins showed up, the mould was hot, and I saw daylight.

The side and nose fins are not due to alloy particles on the surface faces of the mould. I was careful to assure there were none of those during the pour. There are no obstructions either on the alignment pins or holes. I checked there.

How can I tell if the mould has warped so that I know what to look for?

[leadman]

More than likely you have a little lead under the sprue plate by the pivot screw. Are you using Bullplate sprue plate lube?
The plates are also not very strong and can be bent by hitting them with a wood hammer handle when cutting the sprue. Try to cut the sprue by hand or by pushing with the wood handle. I place the warped plate on the back of my vise and hit it with a #4 hammer. Then I go to a chunk of granite countertop with a sheet of 660 grit sandpaper taped to it and run the plate over it to make sure it is flat.
I cast quite a few 22 cal. boolits and have gone to straight linotype as it is so much easier to get excellent results.

[Handloader109]

GOOD FOR YOU, I have one and have better luck with it than my NOE 105 HP. Hot and NO partial drip can get in cavity. I've gotten use to dropping a small drop on sprue plate before I fill cavities. Has helped me a lot.