ETR7 is CSB1...lots of data

[SeabeeMan]

I've dug through everything I could find on here on ETR7 from Expansion Industries and never came across this linked up. Over the last few weeks, a user on shotgun world has carried out what I would call exhaustive tests complete with density, chrono, and pressure testing comparing ETR7 to a few different things, eventually concluding that it is not CSB-5 and is CSB-1 as many have suspected.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=415731

The real data starts on page 4 but page 2 shows his methods and it looks like this guy knows what he's doing. I'm hoping he'll follow the chrono testing up with some pressure testing against CSB-1 just to confirm it again. I'm going to sign up for an account and see if he'll compare it to Bullseye or Titegroup to confirm the "loads like" statements.

Some have even asked Expansion Industries to confirm that it was CSB-1 and they got the "I can neither confirm nor deny" line.

[9w1911]

pretty dumb if you ask me, just say if its CSB1, Maxam is not a bad powder

[SeabeeMan]

I wonder if it is something ties to them distributing it or being allowed to resell it remarked. But I agree with you, I'd be more likely the buy a "second-tier" powder like CSB1 from them than some random new one from Expansion Industries. That being said, I bought 16 pounds not knowing it was CSB-1 just because the price was so good and I knew I could make it work in something. Now to figure out how to use it with Lee 102gr RNs in my 9mm's.

[9w1911]

I think it is solely because they want to market as a new brand, but it has to cost hundreds of thousands to get your own proprietary mix, nonetheless asking a MFG to go offline for a month or whatever to make "your" powder. Just be realistic and say its a maxam powder at an awesome price. I'd say it. Now they look disingenuous.

[gloob]

I agree with Rich. I find it dubious that they are trying to start a new brand in a time when the supply of any decent powder is basically nil. Call it what is really is, and you can still charge a premium. And still sell out in no time flat and then get back to twiddling your thumbs.

When was the last time ETR-7 was even in stock? Why try to start a brand for a product that you cannot even supply?

There could be different reasons they are not calling it CSB-1. The wholesaler might have made that part of the sales agreement. That they cannot call it CSB-1, for various trade agreements that Maxam may have made, officially or unofficially. Or it might be a non-canister grade version of CSB-1, or the like. In which case, calling it CSB-1 would open up the retailer to liability, if it caused a problem for a customer by not acting exactly like CSB-1.

[Trinidad Bill]

I agree with Rich. I find it dubious that they are trying to start a new brand in a time when the supply of any decent powder is basically nil. Call it what is really is, and you can still charge a premium. And still sell out in no time flat and then get back to twiddling your thumbs.

When was the last time ETR-7 was even in stock? Why try to start a brand for a product that you cannot even supply?

There could be different reasons they are not calling it CSB-1. The wholesaler might have made that part of the sales agreement. That they cannot call it CSB-1, for various trade agreements that Maxam may have made, officially or unofficially. Or it might be a non-canister grade version of CSB-1, or the like. In which case, calling it CSB-1 would open up the retailer to liability, if it caused a problem for a customer by not acting exactly like CSB-1.


ETR7 is in stock now. Get yourself some, you will not be disappointed.

[chumly2071]

Must have been a limited amount, as it shows out of stock already on the website.

[bangerjim]

Potato....potata......tomato......tomata. Who cares what it is called. And who made it.

I just know it shoots great, extremely clean, falls inline with Titegroup and Universal load data for cal's I use, they have published data for some pistols.........and it is a GREAT price! Mine shipped within 3 days. Not months and months and months of waiting on a list for Unique and other dirty burning powders.

Not disingenuous looking in my book!

[Trinidad Bill]

Back in stock. Price is up to $68/4lbs.

I am with bangerjim, this stuff works and is available.

[SeabeeMan]

This seems like great stuff...part of me wants to make another order even though I already have 8 lbs.

[tiger762]

It's MAXAM CSB-1. Same as the 55-pound drum I asked my local FFL/SOT to order for me. Turned out he had one in stock. Got it for $660 cash money, out the door. $12/pound. One of my better purchases :D

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo125/tiger762/IMAG1559.jpg

[r6487]

if americanreloading.com calls it either csb-1 and csb-5 (and provides data sheets labeled as such)you would think expansion industries could also. maybe they just don't want folks to know what is really is, as they might can look around the net and find the same powder cheaper elsewhere, seeing how if they have it must be available somewhere. especially if it can be had in 55 gal barrels.

[tiger762]

Sure, just find a type 06 or 07 FFL to order it for you:

http://www.grizzlytargets.com/?product=csb1-smokeless-powder-sale

ETR is not a powder manufacturer. They are just one of many importers of MAXAM who are repackaging it in smaller quantities for mere mortals :D They don't publish load data probably because they're just as curious as the next guy as to what the powder is capable of.

[bangerjim]

Sure, just find a type 06 or 07 FFL to order it for you:

http://www.grizzlytargets.com/?product=csb1-smokeless-powder-sale

ETR is not a powder manufacturer. They are just one of many importers of MAXAM who are repackaging it in smaller quantities for mere mortals :D They don't publish load data probably because they're just as curious as the next guy as to what the powder is capable of.

The ETR7 load data is on their website for most popular cal's we shoot. They DO publish it. You just gotta look!

And who the heck wants 55# of one type of gun powder!?!?!?!?!? Illegal to even have and store it in most locations without the proper licenses.

I am very happy to order 16# of it from when I need it. Still very inexpensive when compared to all the other standard brand name powders out there. It performs great in every cal load I have tried it on.

banger

[tiger762]

Illegal to even have and store it in most locations without the proper licenses.

Citation, please.

[9w1911]

I want a 55 pound drum!!

[gloob]

I want a 55 gallon drum!!! (But not for $12.00 a lb, lol).

Out of curiousity, I checked my invoice on my last PV order. I paid 12.88 per pound for a jug of Promo. You'd think you could get a better discount with 55 lbs.

I wonder why they sell it in 55 lb containers. I thought you could only ship up to 48 lbs on a single hazmat.

If you can need 55lbs of pistol powder, life must be good!

[dragon813gt]

Citation, please.

Check your fire code. Most places limit you to 50#s per residence. If your code refers to NFPA guidelines then you're limited to 50#s. It always amazes me that people think they can store unlimited quantities of propellants and explosives in their home.

[CASTER OF LEAD]

I bought 8# of "ETR7" some time ago. It works very well with the cast boolits out of my .357 . I had to do some playing around to find decent results. That in itself was good enough reason for me to try it. This thread is the first place i have seen/read that anyone else has used it. It is VERY clean Burning & coupled with Ben's Red,& or Ben's liquid lube it is unreal how non dirty a session at the range can be. Anyone recommend load data for 38/357 & .45 ACP? I have used it on .358 150 SWC over 5 gr. charge. Still to work up a cast boolit & load for the ACP. I have some 210gr. SWC that i lubrisized gotta take some time to load & test. :grin:

[CASTER OF LEAD]

Trinidad Bill , What all have you loaded & shot with it? Pistol only, or Rifle only,or both. i have played with it out of my .357 & am working on some .45 ACP loads. All gonna be cast boolits of course. thanks, Roger

[bangerjim]

From what I read in the OTHER ETR7 thread (the original one), many people on here have bought it and really like it.

I sure do! And will buy more when I need it.

banger

[CASTER OF LEAD]

Well for those looking for an example of range results concerning ETR7 here is just a taste of what has worked for me.
454 210 RNHP over 5.5 Gr of ETR7 out of my SR1911 w/ 5" bbl . I shot 20 rounds with no leading ,mid range recoil, cycles & feeds well,this is a very clean shooting powder.
Almost forgot, all boolits listed in this post have been T/L one time with BLL then into lubri-sizer lubing with Ben's Red. Gotta give Ben Props for these great lubes.
Second test load is for .38/.357 ,.358 150 SWC over 4.5 Gr. ETR7 out of my Taurus .357, shot 50 of these. Excellent plinking round,or for a new shooter. Soft recoil, zero leading, super accurate. These are just my findings & i will post more as i find them. Hope this Helps those who are looking for start loads to try. Good Shooting , Roger

[khmer6]

we need to get a CSB-1 database going! Maybe like CastPics or an access database we can share :-D

[bench_rest]

Do NOT use ANY load information posted in the table below.
Loads provided for illustration purposes ONLY.

That said, I've been playing around with CSB-1 since March of this year. All loads worked up with QuickLOAD - Some of the predicted velocities predate the software update that included CSB-1, so they're based off Universal.

Velocities taken at 10' w/ Pro Chrono.

Again, DO NOT use any of these loads!



Cal
Bweight
Type
BHN
Charge
Pvelocity
Velocity


9
115
JHP

5.0

1098


9
115
Plated RN

4.6
1057
1068


9
130
358-125 sized .356 COATED
11.8
3.9
941
985


9
130
358-125 sized .356 COATED

4.6
1004
1020


9
130
358-125 sized .356 COATED

4.2
963
997


9
160
Bayou coated

2.9
780
744


9
124
356-120-TC ALOX
20.9
4.4
1022
1076


9
124
356-120-TC ALOX
20.9
4.2
948
971


9
126
TL356-124-TC ALOX
11.8
3.2
968
1029


9
127
TL356-124-TC COATED

4.6
1008
1010


9
146
358-150R ALOX
11.8
3.9
906
933


9
124
356-120TC ALOX

3.9

968


9
126
356-120TC COATED

4.6
1015
1045


9
124
356-120TC COATED
11.8
5.0
1060
1084


9
153
358-150 sized .356 COATED

3.9
914
953


.357
127
HSM COATED

8.2
1093
1268


.357
164
90322 COATED
11.8
6.2
1073
1260


.357
158
Hornady swaged

6

954


10
155
XTP

7.1
1177
1192


10
155
XTP

7.4
1277
1262





45 Colt
260
452-255 COATED
11
6.6
782
820

[bangerjim]

So why post the chart??????? You KNOW someone will print it out and use it as gospel. After all, it was stated on here.................and this IS the internet, right?!?!?!?!? Gotta be the absolute truth!

What's the big whoop with "7" load data?????? Just use TiteGroup or Universal as they say on their site. I use it in 9, 38, 357, 40, 45ACP, & 45LC with excellent results just using my TiteGroup load data. All PC'd.

Play around from there is you so wish.

Excellent powder!

bangerjim

[bench_rest]

So why post the chart??????? You KNOW someone will print it out and use it as gospel. After all, it was stated on here.................and this IS the internet, right?!?!?!?!? Gotta be the absolute truth!

bangerjim

That made me laugh a bit :)

Guess not including the OAL was waiver enough ;)

And I agree, excellent powder for mid range loads!

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

[Kentucky146]

I got 8 Pounds ETR7 while back I like it I can reload .38SPL/.357 .45Colt .45ACP .40Smith Wesson 10MM and 9mm yes it does some shot gun 2 3/4 shells I have not used it for that It is an awesome all around powder I use for my plinking ammo
$165 yup tax, tags, delivery and Hazmat for 8 pounds that was a while back Trump was still in office if you want, need speed this is not your powder, I believe that was their only issue folks wanted 1200 fps on the best days I got 1000 fps, As I am not a competition shooter 980 fps across the board served my interest... loading_data_ETR7_Exp_Ind.pdf

[Kentucky146]

Do NOT use ANY load information posted in the table below.
Loads provided for illustration purposes ONLY.

That said, I've been playing around with CSB-1 since March of this year. All loads worked up with QuickLOAD - Some of the predicted velocities predate the software update that included CSB-1, so they're based off Universal.

Velocities taken at 10' w/ Pro Chrono.

Again, DO NOT use any of these loads!



Cal
Bweight
Type
BHN
Charge
Pvelocity
Velocity


9
115
JHP

5.0

1098


9
115
Plated RN

4.6
1057
1068


9
130
358-125 sized .356 COATED
11.8
3.9
941
985


9
130
358-125 sized .356 COATED

4.6
1004
1020


9
130
358-125 sized .356 COATED

4.2
963
997


9
160
Bayou coated

2.9
780
744


9
124
356-120-TC ALOX
20.9
4.4
1022
1076


9
124
356-120-TC ALOX
20.9
4.2
948
971


9
126
TL356-124-TC ALOX
11.8
3.2
968
1029


9
127
TL356-124-TC COATED

4.6
1008
1010


9
146
358-150R ALOX
11.8
3.9
906
933


9
124
356-120TC ALOX

3.9

968


9
126
356-120TC COATED

4.6
1015
1045


9
124
356-120TC COATED
11.8
5.0
1060
1084


9
153
358-150 sized .356 COATED

3.9
914
953


.357
127
HSM COATED

8.2
1093
1268


.357
164
90322 COATED
11.8
6.2
1073
1260


.357
158
Hornady swaged

6

954


10
155
XTP

7.1
1177
1192


10
155
XTP

7.4
1277
1262





45 Colt
260
452-255 COATED
11
6.6
782
820




I hear what your disclaiming...nice