in reloading whats is the worst thats happened to you ????

[hound13]

I was just on another sight looking around and come across a thread about things that happened to guys in the reloading process, or when they tried to fire there rounds and the gun would jam. most ive done is put a primer in wrong or too much powder and it was a double charge . id like to here your experiences of stuff that has happened to you guys over the years !!!!!!. so mayby we can all learn something out of this , thanks for the input !!!!!!

[Bayou52]

Well, let's see. In the past 40 years or so, these various gaffes come to mind:

Uniflow powder measure running out of powder and not realizing it,

Primers not completely seated especially when using the universal priming arm,

Upside down primer insertion,

No primer inserted at all and powder dribbling everywhere.

Each one of these gaffes was caught in time. I've certainly learned from my mistakes over the many years!

Bayou52

[GhostHawk]

My worst happened three days ago. Got distracted by a phone call, was reloading a small batch of 7.62x25 for my CZ-52.

Put the Red Dot powder charge in before they were primed. No big deal, didn't really even spill much.

Just had me shaking my head and telling myself to watch it.

I "May" have damaged a gun reloading once a long long time ago.
Cost me a new bolt, and gunsmith to remove the old one and reset head space.

It scared the **** out of me and I took a long break from reloading, and got real careful when I came back to it.

[hithard]

Worst thing. ....saved a lot of money reloading, but spent twice as much shooting, spent even more of that saved money on new guns......

[fast ronnie]

Primers in upside down. (before I got an RCBC bench autoprimer).
No powder in case. Dad wasn't happy! Stuck bullet in bore.
Double-charged cases. I always check with a flashlight and haven't had one slip through.
Wrong powder charge. One grain too much and had to disassemble a hundred rounds.

And My personal favorite
Forgetting to clean media out of flash holes and having to remove a hundred live primers.

[Jim_P]

I have a RCBS Chargemaster. Pouring a pound of powder into the hopper with the dump valve open.

[EDG]

Not buying a RCBS A2 for $50.

[shoot-n-lead]

In my younger years, blew a Model 49 S&W to smithereens...still not sure how it happened.

[EddieNFL]

Many of the above. Once pulled the wrong powder out of the cabinet. Realized the mistake as I was filling the measure. Had I not caught it the results would have been ho-hum (real close to what I intended). In 41 years I haven't damaged a firearm (knocking on wood).

[rondog]

When I first started, my grandson would watch me, I think he was 10 or so. One day, he decided he'd "help" me by making a few rounds for me, after I'd stopped for the day. Trouble was, I'd turned off my Lee powder measure, so it wasn't dropping powder. The resulting squibs cost me two 1911 barrels on my next range trip! Made my butt red.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/gun%20damages%20and%20destruction/DSCN1784.jpg

[hound13]

in another forum I asked the same question and guys were blowing up vacuum cleaners by picking up primers.!!!!!!

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Worst thing I have done is bought a mould in a caliber I "wanted" to have a gun in. Eventually found a gun in said caliber, but didn't really like the mould. Then I got in on a group buy for a mould I knew I would like, but sold the gun.

[chsparkman]

In 1999 I loaded a box of 50 .38 special with no powder. Didn't find out until 13 years later. Stuck two Boolits in the barrel, but I noticed right away both times and my BIL was there to fix it. Took the rest home and pulled all the boolits.

Since I got my LNL AP I've loaded lots of rounds with no primer. Makes a mess with Bullseye. I had a hard time getting the rhythm down..."down to size, forward to prime"... It's better now.

[NavyVet1959]

My first reloading mistake was when I was just starting out. I was loading some .357 rounds and I didn't seat the primer deep enough, so the cylinder would not rotate. So, although a revolver is pretty dependable, you still can screw things up.

Sometimes, I'll forget to put a primer in and end up dribbling powder all over the press.

I've spilled powder in the carpet and had to vacuum it out. I used a shop vac with a piece of paper towel over the hose end to act as a filter and was able to recover probably all of the powder.

Dropping primers in carpet sucks though. I have spend quite a bit of time on my hands and knees trying to find a stupid primer so that I don't vacuum it up with a rotary beater brush type vacuum and finding out whether they really will set off the primer. I much prefer a solid smooth surface for my reloading room -- stone, ceramic tile, wood, vinyl floor, etc instead of carpet. If you spill some powder or primers, it makes it easy to just sweep them up.

Accidentally loaded a 10mm 215 gr load with Alliant Promo (Red Dot equiv) instead of with Longshot (which I *thought* I had in the powder measure). It "disassembled" my RIA 10mm and mag, but no damage even though the pressure (according to Quickload) was considerably higher (167K psi) than the 10mm SAAMI rating. That one kind of stung.

Be careful out there...

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/ria-10mm-ruptured-brass.jpg

[RobS]

Spilling powder...............can piss a person off as it's just a waist. Then the other side, loading 20 some rounds before realizing that I didn't turn on the powder measure; talk about a load that saves on powder. :roll:

[jmorris]

I have a friend that owned a printing company and he gave me a lot of Lynotype. After melting down a pot full from "cold" I was adding to the pot and it volcanoed like I was putting in ice cubes.

Lead went 19' high to the celing, on my safty hat/mask, welding jacket, gloves and some found bare skin on my wrist making a bad burn.

[30Carbine]

The worst I have ever had involves primers. loaded up some cci 400's in 30 carbine went to the range first 5 no problem then, click no bang so I dropped the mag. ok I let it sit in the sled for about 20-25 minutes while I shot a few others. came back to it pulled the bolt back round went flying out hit the concrete pad and boom she went. no one got hurt but I may have tinkled a little bit. so well once in a life time thing right nope. put the mag back in loaded another click no bang again let sit same thing happened when it hit the concrete pad. I got a call into cci right now this happened last weekend. and no it's not the powder tried Winchester primers with the same powder and all banged.

[MrWolf]

I have been lucky so far (knocks on head). Missing primers, spilled powder, and one squib. The squib was actually on a 12 gauge which normally not that big of a deal in an over/under. Except the only time it happened my son and I were shooting in a competition and he got it. Primer was just enough to cause some shot to dribble out the barrel. He lost the bird cause of that. I felt like ... Wish it had been me it happened to.

[bedbugbilly]

Upside down primers . . .

Getting interrupted while loading and not removing what was on the press and starting over didn't drop a charge which got me a "squibb" next time at the range . . but I caught it. Could have been worse . could have done a double charge . . it taught me that when interrupted, stop, remove what's on the press, dump powder if necessary and start over . . .

And as has been mentioned . . saving money by reloading only to spend twice as much on more reloading things and guns . . .

[762 shooter]

The first 50 rounds I ever loaded back in 1972 were 44 mag. I was supposed to load with 24 grains of W-296 but read the scale wrong and loaded them with 12 grains.

Figured it would be alright, just under powered but asked some reloaders just to make sure. Learned about SEE events then purchased my first and only kinetic bullet puller that day.

I may have dropped some powder into non primed brass, but I'll never admit to that, unless you have video.

762

[lightman]

Loading a Chargemaster with the dump valve open is like a right of passage!

[RickF]

I painted a wide bright orange stripe on my RCBS ChargeMaster's dump valve so that if I see bright orange I know the dump valve is open, so far it has kept me from filling the hopper with the valve open.

My worst reloading experience was a squib load in a brand new 9mm Springfield XDS that fortunately stuck the round just enough past the chamber so that another round wouldn't fully chamber and I was able to remove it without damaging the gun ... got lucky on that one.

[altheating]

Some of us have dumped the chargemaster twice. I bet others have done it more than twice.

[Blanket]

ran out of primers and powder on the shelf, never again. Feedback from loading since 1970

[LUCKYDAWG13]

well the worst thing that happened to me was not on the loading bench but at the range I was shooting my Encore 454 & Contender 44 magnum
did you know that you can shoot a 44 out of a 454 it was like a pop gun. I will never have different AMMO out on my shooting bench again

[hound13]

great stories guys thanks I hope none of this happens to me !!!!!!!!

[1911cherry]

I had two squibs back to back in the wifes gun! Luckily Both times I felt something wasn't right and stopped , slide cycled , ejected the empty, but the bullet stopped about one inch short of leaving the barrel. That could have been bad , real bad , she likes that 1911 more than she likes me...

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Ive dumped the Chargemaster more than twice, but less than 5. I am not gonna tell EXACTLY how many times I have done it LOL.

[Harter66]

54 gr of Unique in an Oz an 1/8 12 ga ends poorly , the 50s model 12 is fine and still very serviceable 35 yr later,the head space needed a little attention.

I had a start load once jam tight a 357 ,several yr later I found that Blue Dot shouldn't be use for that.

More recently just last yr. I found that RL 10x will jump pressure right at the max loads with paper patched even when the max was a full grain above the jump from happy primers to brass spray and the validation Carcano gas handling .

It appears that on 95 degree full sun days even factory 22-250 will suffer pressure issues and the next weekend the results were the same with a much lighter 3031 load. My guess is that the Mark X and varminter bbl doesnt cool well .

[kfarm]

My dads 30's Spanish (Mod. 10 smith copy) blew up while I was chronographing some loads. Blew one chamber of the cylinder and took off the top strap. Skeered me real bad, bad enough that it took me a couple weeks to get going again. Had a metallurgist look at it and he suggested that it was poor casting and metal fatigue. You can see that where it came apart the metal looked crystallized. The loads were very lite 75 gr woodcutters for my daughter to shoot in her ultralight. Glad I was hanging on to it with one hand.

[orbitalair]

I shot my chrony one day.

I loaded a bunch, like 850rnds of 223 at what apparently was a good load (at cold temps, like 50deg), one day at the range they were shooting over 3300fps, while i was expecting 3000fps. Then, lightbulb, it was July, ball powder was getting HOT. I have since adjusted that load down another 10%. But I had to pull a lot of rounds just to be sure.

[mozeppa]

droppe some range scrap in 90 pounds of molten lead...heard the whistle and the bang.

tinsel fairy visited.

7 foot diameter lead spill on the floor and on 3 walls and ceiling in a 10 foot high garage ceiling.
11 burns on my right arm...pants and shirt covered in lead...

a noodle of molten lead hit me in the right eye burning my eyelid and just below my eye.

THANK GOD ALMIGHTY I BLINKED JUST AT THAT EXACT MOMENT ...OR I WOULD HAVE BEEN BLINDED!

ALL I GOOD!

[hound13]

what does squibs mean I keep reading about it.....??????????

[vonzep]

A case fell out of the sorter and into the powder measure. Migrated to the bottom and intermittently partially obstructed the powder measure / flow.

200 rounds had to be disassembled for safety sake.

The best part was the ten year old was out of school and was introduced to the inertial puller.

[vonzep]

what does squibs mean I keep reading about it.....??????????squib is no powder charge or very light charge that pushes the bullet into but not out of the barrel

[koehlerrk]

A "squib" is a round loaded with no powder. Looks normal from the outside, chambers fine, pull the trigger, and it has enough oomph to push the bullet a little bit down the bore. If you don't catch it and load a regular round next... bad stuff happens. Bulged barrel if you're lucky, rapid self-disassembly if you're not.

My worst? Upside down primer, ran my Dillon SDB out of powder once, ran it out of primers once too. Made a batch of 45ACP that went through the Dillon just fine, but wouldn't chamber. I now have Lyman case gauges for all shells I load. Guess I just ain't loaded enough...

[DEC505]

Forgetting to turn off Lee powder dispenser before removing it, TWICE

[Biggen]

Forgetting to turn off Lee powder dispenser before removing it, TWICE

+1

I'm guilty of this one. Now I make sure to remember to turn the hopper clockwise before I remove it from the body. Makes a damn big mess if you don't.

[cliff55]

Fired my ramrod down range once. Got to walk out and get while everyone watched. No powder under ball couple of times. Thats why you buy ball puller with new rifle.

[Three44s]

Worse thing?

Well it started with a load press ......... I bought a gun ............ then dies ......... then another gun ..........

A different press ......... different gun ..... other dies .............

.............. got a bunch of dies for guns I did not have ...........

........ went looking for those guns .............. needed a safe ............ found safe ........


...................... found those guns ........ then needed more bullets .............. found about casting ...... bought a mold .......... then more molds ...........

............ got mold for a gun I did not have ............. went looking for that gun ........ got a crook in my neck looking for wheel weights .... discovered tire shops and their stashes of lead WW ........ got a bad back loading full buckets of them ........

.......... then needed dies for that gun after I found it ........ started counting guns ......... went looking for another safe ......

Bought a big one!

Had more room for guns ....... more guns found me!

Sort of sums up the past 40 years!

Three 44s

[Garyshome]

Upside down primer insertion,

No primer inserted at all and powder dribbling everywhere.

Flipping the mec charge bar with the powder bottle on it and no plug in the back end, dumped powder all over the place

[Ickisrulz]

One time I only got 48 of the 50 338 Mag cases I ordered. Drove me crazy seeing two empty spots in the box.

[Ola]

Years ago I was loading a batch of .38 Wadcutters with a single-stage press and a powder measure. The batch was 100 rounds and when I was about to seat the bullet number 90-something, I noticed that the powder level in the case was way too high..

The locking screw in the powder measure had gotten loose and it was throwing way too much powder (Vihtavuori N310..)

But that was NOT the mistake.

The mistake was made when I decided to pull the bullets LATER.

Fast forward 10 years: "What's this? A box of .38 wad-cutters!"

Bulged a chamber in my S&W 586. Had to disassemble the whole revolver and use a plastic hammer to get it apart.

[brstevns]

Fired some handloads using 308 win brass neck down to 243 win. Blew primers! Found I needed to ream or neck turn the reform brass. This was with starting loads using 4895. That was some 40 years ago.

[Kent Fowler]

Pouring shot into the shot hopper on my Ponsness 900 with the drain valve open. Had about 5 pounds of #9 shot on the floor before I realized what was happening. Did the same with the powder hopper a few times, also.

[hound13]

great stories keep it up thanks!!!!!!!!!

[ozarkhillbilly49]

got my finger stuck in old style steel mec wad guide. had to call my buddy to get out of that one. he ribbed me about that on the day he passed away.best wishes to all.

[NavyVet1959]

The worst thing probably won't happen until after we die when our wives sell our stuff for what we *said* we paid for it... :(

[Steve Steven]

After a lengthy period of not reloading, I loaded up a 400 round lot of 45ACP CB to shoot. At range, shot several, then had one that hit the floor and skidded into the pit. HMM, seys I? Next round was a squib. Got bullet out with rod, tried again. several rounds again, happened again. Time to go home and regroup. Pulled several with impact puller, one had NO POWDER! Checked powder measure, had plenty there. Dumped powder from measure, found an insect in bottom of hopper!

Steve

[3006guns]

Loaded approximately fifty rounds of .38 S&W with Unique, then realized to my horror that I had grabbed a can of Bullseye! Ordinarily this would just be a bullet pulling job except that I had dumped the finished rounds into a bag of 150 properly charged cases, so I ended up pulling every bullet to make sure I got all of them. That charge of Bull would have made a mess out of a prized revolver.

[xd45forever]

The other nite I was sizing/depriming a large batch of 5.56 and broke a depriming pin only to discover I didn't have a replacement so I dug thru my nail drawer and made a temporary pin well my 7 yr old grandson/helper/best buddy came in and wanted to help so I let him run the handle the pin must have bent and didn't hit the hole which in turn broke the stem and now the sizing ball is rattling around in the bottom of the case! A new stem is on its way! Lol

[dragon813gt]

Always close the valve on the Chargemaster immediately after removing all powder from it. That's how you prevent spilling powder out of it. I haven't lost any.......yet.

Worse was a double charge followed by a squib. This was the first time Ioaded w/ the Chargemaster. Something broke my rhythm and I wasn't paying attention to the counter. If I was I would have realized charges 4 and 5 went into case 4.

Action was strong enough to handle the double charge, light charge of W231 to begin w/. Sound caught my attention. The lack of sound from no charge really did. My shooting stopped really early that day :laugh:

All others have been intentional squibs. Trying to find just how light you can go leads to stuck bullets. Word of advice. Don't do it w/ hollow base wadcutters. They are a real pain to get out.

[hound13]

it always happens the wrong way

[SeabeeMan]

I just filled my Lyman Gen 6 measure/dispenser the other day with the drain open. About 1/8lb of powder on my bench! Luckily it happened to be sitting on 2 full page sheets of paper so I was able to just pour it back in.

[bremraf]

I've spilled powder, and squashed primers in sideways when i was too lazy to chamfer primer pockets in my 556's

[Bullwolf]

I had a whole primer tube go bang at work, right after I had filled it on one of the Dillon progressive presses while loading a batch of 9mm Luger (9x19).

A single Berdan primed 9x18 Makarov case had snuck it's way into the case feeder, and it popped the whole primer tube when I tried a bit too enthusiastically to prime the case. One of the case sorter employee's had missed the single Makarov case, and mixed it in with the processed 9mm Luger brass.

No one was hurt, but spent primers rained down from above, and my long term hearing certainly did not appreciate it one bit.

It will definitely startle you when it happens.

My memory isn't quite what it used to be, but I think we were using the older RL 1000 Dillon's at the time, however it also could have been one of the early 1050's.

We had a pair of the early commercial Dillon progressive presses set up with case feeders at work, and we also had an Ammo Load Mark III - Handgun Ammunition Reloader on the premises.



- Bullwolf

[rodm1]

The worst whose an overcharge with Tightgroup. I'm not shire if media got stuck in it or a double charge. It blew the grips of and detail striped the magazine never found the spring.

[pete501]

This happened to a late friend of mine. He had a brain injury prior to this mistake so he kept his loads light so his head wouldn't be rung. He loved to shoot and didn't care what he hit. He never put up targets, shot mostly at things on the bank and shot continuously for the day at the range switching firearms when they needed cooling.

This is what a double charge will do to a Winchester 88 in 243. There isn't a usable part left. He ended up with a small scratch to his face. The gun came home with me so his wife wouldn't find out about it.

[ozarkhillbilly49]

thank god your buddy wasn't hurt Pete!! best wishes to all.

[Doggonekid]

Never had a reloading accident. Been pretty lucky there. I have been one of those nimrods that have shot their own cronograph.

[LoopSoosStroop]

Got my finger between a 45 ACP case and a sizing die in the press. Lots of blood....

[hound13]

bet you that hurt jamming your finger

[Patrick L]

Worst thing I ever did was put a decapping pin through my finger. Before I had progressive presses I used a case kicker on a single stage press. The thing really worked, but one morning I got my rhythm all screwed up, and pulled the press handle too early (or pulled my left hand back too late) and wham! Before I knew what happened the ram had impaled my finger on the decap pin. You tend to only do that once...

[Budzilla 19]

Broken decapping pins, wrong primers in rifle shells,( large pistol for large rifle,) found that before loading continued, no powder in shells, upside down primers, you guys know about this stuff! And don't even get me started on a MEC progressive shotgun reloader!!! Lol just part of a lifetime of loading and shooting!!! BTW, I started with my dad in 1972! Talk about some changes!!!

[osteodoc08]

Worst moment by far was when my mentor passed (my father). Still too much to learn.

Then there was a stuck case I had a screwdriver jammed in the top trying to pound out the casing when the screwdriver broke and ended up with a 3" gash in my forearm that bled like crazy. I was 12 or 13 at the time and reloading on a make shift bench with my father. Other than that, a squib. Regular press frustrations, broken decap pins while trying to get those last few done in a batch, ripping out a lagged in press while trying to resize 7.62 with a SB sizer and inadequately lubed case. Usual stuff.

Shooting wise the worst is probably Garand thumb. No major injuries otherwise. (Knock on wood).

[Latheman]

I had a squib on a .357 mag. Thankfully the bullet jammed between the cylinder and barrel. So there was no chance of firing another round.

[skeet1]

The worst thing I ever did was to find out how strong the Mosin hex receivers are! I was using WC820 and like so many others have done before me got a double charge. I now use a small flash light to check all my charged cases in a loading block.

The outcome of the double charge was that the rifle took it without damage. The case was a Privi Partisan and held but stretched the primer pocket so bad that the primer fell out. I firmly believe that the Privi brass is as good a brass as is available and is one of the reasons that the rifle and I were not harmed.

Ken

[DougGuy]

Worst thing... This one might just "take the cake" as it didn't occur to me to post it at first but... In 2000 I split from my 2nd marriage and moved a few states away, a-hem long story not going there now but I couldn't take all my stuff so I sold the reloading gear. I had thousands of cast boolits, tens of thousands of brass cases, 3-4 presses, 5-6 loaded turrets, dies by the dozens, a bunch of powder measures, scales, a big heavy wooden bench with a backboard where everything had an attachment to keep (most) of it in order, and the guy who bought it came in a little S-10 pickup, and his rear bumper was dang near dragging the ground, the bed of his truck was down on the rear axle hard. Half of a large garage packed with stuff he hauled away, for the absurdly price of $250.00..

[JSnover]

Just a few squibs due to light charges. The most frustrating thing was a batch of 45-70 loaded with black for a match. They grew overnight so only half would chamber. There I was on the firing line...

[hound13]

lots of things can happen keep your eye on what your doing !!!!!!!!!!

[BAGTIC]

Loaded 100 rounds of 7mm Mauser. Went to the range to sight in and at 25 yards the bullets were entering paper sideways. Checked the remaining ammo and they were loaded with .277 bullets instead of .284 (7mm). I sill don't know how that happened as I have never owner a 270 caliber gun. I can only guess I picked up wrong box of bullets at store.

[gunwonk]

My worst (so far, knock on wood) has been Remington primers blowing out with stress cracks:
137463137464
(I believe the lot number is 681.) This was a total PITA to figure out. The main obvious symptom was a black sooty circle around the fired primer. Happened fairly consistently, but only a few percent of the time. Everybody who looked at it said "leaky primer pocket". So I'd deprime, inspect the pocket, and not see any problem -- because that wasn't it.

Finally -- literally, years later -- I noticed a tiny black spot on the edge of the fired primer, in a cartridge case that showed the problem. The spot wouldn't rub off. (Aha! :o) It turned out to be a hole, burned right through the cup when the primer fired. That explained the soot, and why it was all around the primer, and the gas cutting on my bolt face -- and even why I hadn't been able to figure it out earlier. Before I inspected each case for a leaky primer pocket, I would of course remove the primer, drop it into the wastebasket -- and never see the real problem. (Tsk.)

I actually discovered this in a previous lot of Remington 6 1/2 small rifle primers -- lot number 608, I believe -- in which the burn-through holes were smaller. Imagine my joy when lot 681 showed the same problem! :x

Oh well, the "good news" is that lot 681 blows bigger holes, which makes for a clearer pic. Enjoy! :-)

[retread]

While reloading 12 gauge, I had just filled the shot reservoir and didn't have it locked down, then I bumped it and had #6 shot all over the reloading room floor. Slippery walking and a pain to pick up! Other than that just the ordinary irritants, inverted primer, no primer etc. So far nothing serious. Thank the Lord!

[BwBrown]

I plugged in my Lee 20 pounder. It was left full after my last casting session.
Walked away, clearly wasn't thinking!
Came back a few minutes later to 20 pounds of lead all over the table. chair, floor. Discovered that molten lead goes a long way when running freely, chars everything in its path.

[CastingFool]

when I first started reloading metallic cartridges, I once got overzealous with crimping the bullets. went to shoot the rifle and the cartridges wouldn't chamber. Upon examination I found a tiny bulge just on the edge of the shoulder. glad I already had a kinetic hammer

[Eddie2002]

I was reloading with a friend and we poured some IMR 4350 powder in a glass ashtray to scoup to a scale to weigh the load. My friend tried to put a lit butt out in the ash tray and touched off about a 1/4 pound of powder. Didn't burn the house down but it was a real surprise. Beer and stupidity was involved that time.

[fatnhappy]

I kid you not, I dropped a rockchucker on my foot while I was unbolting it from my bench. I broke a toe.

[USMC87]

The worst thing I did was to buckle the shoulders on some 243 rounds, I was trying to crimp to heavy.

[BaconStrips]

I had some old 3031 tins that had faded to orange. Accidentally added some 4831 (same color orange tin) to the powder measure. Didn't catch it till I had a couple boxes each of 06 & 308 test loads. finally noticed when I emptied the powder measure. Talk about feeling like a donkey. Gave my kinetic puller a good workout and got 2lb of fertilizer in the deal.
Also worked up some 105 gr 243 loads with 4064 one winter. Didn't shoot them again till pre hunting season sight in. They didn't like the temp change. Bolt lift was pretty bad. Primer flowed into the firing pin hole and sheared off disabling the gun till I could disassemble the bolt and get the piece out. Figure I got lucky on that one. Would have hated to blow up my favorite Browning.

[w5pv]

Dumping one type of powder on top of another type in the powder throw.Lost aan amoumt of powder but was able to unload the throw to one level and skim the rest from the top but still lost an amount that would have loaded several rounds.