PC vs Traditional Lube Time

[altheating]

For you guys who are now powder coating boolits. What amount of time does it take to PC 500 Boolits vs the time it would take to size and lube 500 boolits with a Star Sizer Luber? At this time I have no interest in changing to PC but would like to know.

[flyingmonkey35]

Lubiszer would be faster hands down.

Here's why

PC requires at least 4 steps
Stack spray bake size. You can do that in a lot of 250 in a small toaster oven.

Luber sizer is just one stroke and done.

Pros vs con's

Pc pro
If your new and just getting into casting you can use the bbdt PC method real cheap.

Mabey 70 bucks total and your all set.

Shoot great 0 leading no lube to deal with.

Fun colors

Con

Take time and. A steady hand to stack em and move the tray with out tipping it over.
Can be messy if you use espc method.

Lubersizer

Pro
Fast , good clean looking boolits.

Shoot great.

Con's

Initial start up cost is expisinve.

Lube , are you going to make it or buy it?
Messy when making it.
Shooting the s more smokey. Not a issue if you shoot outdoors.


This was done on my unforgiving phone.

[popper]

Not PC, hitek coating.coat boolits, 30 sec. Dry overnite, bake 10 min. Repeat. Easy 500 at a time.

[bangerjim]

Seems most getting into this hobby want to do it on the uber-cheeeeep. If you have a Lubra-matic thingy, use it. You already have tons of money sunk in it and the many parts and grease. Personally I never did like grease and am glad to be rid of it.

BBDT takes only an old coolwhip tub, some black AS BB's, some HF powder , and a convection toaster oven. Not much compaired to a Lubra-Matic!

Time is up to you, depending on how you value it. This IS still a hobby for most of us. PC'ing batches of boolits is not that time comsuming. The 10 min bake time is used to coat and set out other racks to go in when the 1st batch is done. I usually plan on 400-550 in an hour if I push it. I like to relax and take my time. That is pleanty fast enough for me!

I also ESPC a large amount of my boolits. That takes me less time because I do not have to pick-n-put each boolit. Just stick them in a jig that spaces them 3/4" and load the racks! Spraying tales only a couple minutes.

I would never consider going back to grease. PC offers no smoke, not sticky boolits in the sumer, unlimited storage time, and NO leading!

Works for me!

banger-j

[Smoke4320]

I can easily PC 400 bullets in an hour .. Never used a Lube sizer so cant say how long that would take

Thing about Pc'ed bullets is they are fully covered (if done Dry Tumble) and will stay that way indefinitely.. no corroding no lube to worry about melting in the summer or contaminating powder.. No leading and No smoke.. Barrel cleanup is usually 2 patches for me

[A pause for the COZ]

I have a star and I also powder coat.
The star is much faster. But I dont use it as a ether or proposition.
I also tumble lube when it suits me.
Its just one more tool I use to fill a specific need.

I standard lube/ size all of my 30 cal rifle bullets and most of my Pistol boolits.
Except:
Any pistol boolits I intend to load with my Hornady LNL AP and use the bullet feeder.
PC'd boolits feed excellently just like jacketed.

One specific pistol boolit that drops at .312 and I want them to be .313. Powder coating adds .002 to the size and I shoot them unsized just coated.

I have one 9mm pistol that leads when ever a standard lubed boolit get with in ten feet of the barrel.
I could spend some quality time with it and fit a specific boolit just for that gun. Or I powder coat them and end the problem and shoot them in all my 9's.

I exclusively powder coat my 223 boolits for use in my AR's. I am pushing them to extremes and the powder coating seems to be helping.
Its just one more tool for the tool box.

[2wheelDuke]

Other people may have different results, but I'd take about twice as long of actual active time to PC. I have to shake and bake. Then I run them thru a push thru sizer. I figure that I'm at about a wash compared to the Lyman 450 time wise. I still use the Lyman for some loads, while I've moved on to PC or HiTek for others. And the experiments are all on-going for me.

[RobsTV]

For me, PC ends up with many more loadable boolits in a shorter time using much less effort.

Scroll to end to save time reading already known stuff.

Lyman 4500, not star. Typically involves turning on heater for Carnauba Red (works best in the Florida heat) for at least 15 minutes to get up to temperature while I change out die. If low on lube, use a cheese grader to shred blocks of CR, then gradually fill up reservoir, which takes about 10 more minutes. So nearly 1/2 hour before I start. Say roughly 5 seconds to lube and size each boolit, or 360 in 30 minutes. Now that is 30 minutes of constant labor. So far it has taken 45 minutes to an hour. Now add gas checks, say 20 per minute, so around 18 minutes to install 360 GC's. Don't want to do more than that in a sitting, which means doesn't matter how many I can do per hour, as 360 per sitting is about it, and it happens to take around an hour. Finally, I usually let lubed boolits setup overnight before storing. Sometimes I run the lubed boolits through Lee push through sized to install GC's, depending on type. After loading boolits, I also wipe off any lube or die residue from using lube that made its way out of brass or seating die to visible lead, for each and every one.

PC is something I just started. Fire up toaster over to 100-150 degrees for about 5 minutes, during which time I toss around 250 boolits into fry basket that fits into toaster oven. Warm boolits in oven for 10 minutes. Remove and dump into plastic container, add teaspoon of powder, snap on cover. Turn oven up to 400. Toss, twirl, shake for 2 minutes. No BB's required with fine powder from Smoke with the warmed boolits attracting powder great, even hollow point cavities. Dump coated boolits back into fry basket, then into 400 degree oven. Come back after 20 minutes, remove fry basket and give a shake to loosen any stuck together boolits, then quench in pot of water so they can be immediately handled. Turn oven temp down to 100 and leave door open so temperature drops, ready for repeating procedure. Dump cooked powder coated boolits onto towel and separate any remaining stuck boolits. Done. No need for gas checks. True labor took about 5 minutes, so can repeat all day long. Sizing with Lee push thru takes about 2 seconds each, or a little quicker than installing GC's with Lyman (and they push through like melted butter). Or get the right size mold and skip sizing all together. You can do the math, but once up and rolling, about 500 per hour including sizing. If I want to load right away, quick paper towel to remove any left over moisture from quenching them and ready to load.

In an hour I have more done with PC. In 4 hours PC I have more done than a few days work with the 4500.. After loading boolits, no need to wipe them as no lube or junk from dies to clean up.


I would edit the first repliers comments as follows:

PC Con

(remove stacking and mess part, as not needed)

Lubersizer Pro

(remove Fast , good clean looking boolits along with and shoot great, since same thing with PC, as you do not have to use colors, and they too shoot great. Clear PC is available and works same way as colors, and might actually give you cleaner looking boolits than lubing would, since never any lube residue showing on completed round.. I personally hate the colored boolits, but good for testing or if you are into that sorta thing)

[Beagle333]

The Star is faster. But the PC makes a much neater, slicker and tidier boolit for loading and storing, and don't forget the great colors. That is why I still have a LNIB Star with 6 or 8 dies in the box and I've only used it once during Christmas Break of '13. 8-) But I ain't sellin' it. What if Smoke runs off and joins the circus and I can't get no more quality and fairly priced powder!!!?? ;-)

[Love Life]

The Star is faster...period.

PC and HI-TEK don't gunk up your dies, brass, fingers, bullet box, cartridge bin, and don't foul your gun as much. However, there are more steps involved. You have to coat, bake, and then size with PC and how you coat will also add up to different times.

With HI-TEK you have to coat, let dry, bake, coat, let dry, bake.

I treat PC and HI-TEK bullets like jacketed and find the processes worth it to me.

[ioon44]

Yes, The Star is faster but with PC or HI-TEH the boolits still have to be sized unless you have a mold that cast to a finished diameter.


I have done the PC ASBBDT and the HI-TEK to me the overall time spent is much longer for the PC, setting them up on trays takes more time .

With HI-TEK the time coating is very short, with the baking and drying cycles you can be doing other stuff while this is going on.

[Smoke4320]

How did you know I was thinking about running off to the circus :)

[coffeeguy]

Overall, PC takes more time, on the front end anyway (before firing)...Coat, bake, sizing is usually optional but I do it just to keep boolit diameter uniform. It's what comes afterward what really sold me on the benefits of PC and/or Hi-Tek: Boolits, fingers and dies stay clean as a whistle, hot weather isn't a factor, feeding is nice and smooth, very little smoke when firing, jacketed velocities are not a problem, and the barrels stay clean...no leading, just powder fouling.
135427This is after 250 rounds and one pass with the bore brush. One wet patch and two dry patches later, no fouling and you can see the text from the newspaper reflected clearly enough inside the barrel to read it!

[brtelec]

If the most important factor is time, PC may not be the answer. I PC exclusively and will never conventionally lube. The lack of leading is enough to make me stick with it.

[jcwit]

Last night I tried powder coating for the first time.

1. I placed 50 cast bullets in a plastic container with maybe 1/2 teaspoon of red powder coat I purchased from an Amish shop that does welding & coating. Did not use and plastic BB's or anything else.

2. I dumped them out on a screen on a cookie sheet, they sat as they landed.

3. Baked them at 400 degrees for 20 minutes as the Amish guy recommended.

4. Removed them from the oven and shook them so they didn't stick together.

Hopefully today we'll find out how they shoot. They do look good tho.

My expense?????

One (1) dollar for the powder coat that I gave the Amish fellow.

Electricy to bake them for 20 minutes.

[coffeeguy]

THIS is what I love about this forum...People that go 'outside the box'. I've had boolits which have stuck together and needed a good whack with a screwdriver or knife blade between them, and have been afraid to just dump and bake for that reason. And of course I know the powdercoating stayed tacky for a couple of minutes after baking, but never thought to try just giving a shake or two, like using HiTek. Gonna have to try this soon!

[Gunslingerdoc]

I rarely used my rcbs sizer - dies are more expensive, heating the lube (almost always managed to burn myself), messing with the right punch size (why oh lord did they come up with such a baffling numbering nomenclature !)...so I tumble-lubed and use lee's push thru sizers (yes, youll have to make sure theyre actually the size they state - I have a 25-30% adjustment needing rate)...overall smoked some leaded some, but quick and easy EXCEPT for cleaning out lube out of my sizing dies!!! HATED IT. nothing like having a couple of dillions hummin along that you have to stop and clean out lube every 100-150 rounds.

So Now I PC EVERYTHING...no leading, no smoke, no cleaning out lube plastered to the dillions and I can reload as fast as jacketed

[bangerjim]

If you are in the rare group on here that does 8-10 thousand boolits/day, then PC may not be for you. (Who can shoot that many anyway!!!!)

But for the casual hobby shooter like me and thousands of others on here, coating a few hundred an hour is just fine!

PC rules. Either BBDT or ESPC.

banger-j

[bangerjim]

Last night I tried powder coating for the first time.

1. I placed 50 cast bullets in a plastic container with maybe 1/2 teaspoon of red powder coat I purchased from an Amish shop that does welding & coating. Did not use and plastic BB's or anything else.

2. I dumped them out on a screen on a cookie sheet, they sat as they landed.

3. Baked them at 400 degrees for 20 minutes as the Amish guy recommended.

4. Removed them from the oven and shook them so they didn't stick together.

Hopefully today we'll find out how they shoot. They do look good tho.

My expense?????

One (1) dollar for the powder coat that I gave the Amish fellow.

Electricy to bake them for 20 minutes.

You did not say what cal.

I tried this with 1/4" hardware cloth with 30's-45's and got horrible lay marks ON the grease groove tops. Had to re-melt most. I like smooth noses AND grease groove tops all around.

I do use this process for 223's. I make so many of those little buggers, throwing 10% back s no big deal.

What I do use hardware cloth for is 30 cal's. Take a Starrett tapered shank pin punch and enlarge every other hole so the GC area just fists in snugly. That way when you pick them up with hemostats, they fit into those enlarged holes with minimum powder-disturbing effort.

Works for me.


banger-j

[jcwit]

What I'm currently doing is 9mm, which has always been a bane to me regarding leading. The screen that I'm using is like expanded metal only very small, it was made to put over the top of rain gutter to prevent leaves from clogging the gutter, its made of aluminum.


Yes it does leave some bare spots on the bullets, but that does not seem to hurt anything. Bare spots are never running down the barrel at the same place. I found NO LEADING whatsoever, doing it this way and was much less time consuming that trying to stand every bullet on end. But to each his own.


I also found I did not need the plastic BB's when tumbling the bullets with the powder coat to make the coating to stick. I have no idea what kind of powder coat "brand" it is that I'm using, just know it works and is red. LOL


As with you, this works for me!

[bangerjim]

Glad to hear your "almost coated" boolits do not cause leading. I for one, have never risked it, but it is really nice to know you see no leading problems! This info may allow the lowering of the acceptable level of coating.

I have that stuff on my rain gutters!

Thanks for the info!

banger-j

[flyingmonkey35]

If you are in the rare group on here that does 8-10 thousand boolits/day, then PC may not be for you. (Who can shoot that many anyway!!!!)

But for the casual hobby shooter like me and thousands of others on here, coating a few hundred an hour is just fine!

PC rules. Either BBDT or ESPC.

banger-j
Oh im sure if I was coating that many a day I could come up with some sort of gizmo that would feed the bullets in a tray and bake in a real oven at 2k a time.

[coffeeguy]

Oh im sure if I was coating that many a day I could come up with some sort of gizmo that would feed the bullets in a tray and bake in a real oven at 2k a time.

I'm thinking one of those conveyor-type pizza ovens. Hmm...I can get an assistant...or a lackey...to load the trays, do a quick spray, they roll into the oven, roll out the other end where my other assistant/lackey/boolit boy dumps them into the quenching tank. Then my trained monkeys dry, sort and package them....Oh my, I'm daydreaming again...

[coffeeguy]

Glad to hear your "almost coated" boolits do not cause leading. I for one, have never risked it, but it is really nice to know you see no leading problems! This info may allow the lowering of the acceptable level of coating.

I'd get that 'almost coated' the first few times I tried the Piglet Method...Got some ugly boolits for sure but they worked fine. The higher gloss powders help since they flow more.

[flyingmonkey35]

Why not a automatic bullet hopper. Dumping them one at a time on a converr belt. That goes thru a small powder coating station. That gets a blast from a espc gun (automatic) then down the belt on to a small spiral slow sprial belt in a oven. Then knocked out onto the bucket of water for final quenching.

Yup I've put some thought into this.

[bangerjim]

Why not a automatic bullet hopper. Dumping them one at a time on a converr belt. That goes thru a small powder coating station. That gets a blast from a espc gun (automatic) then down the belt on to a small spiral slow sprial belt in a oven. Then knocked out onto the bucket of water for final quenching.

Yup I've put some thought into this.

But automation takes all the hobby fun out of it! :bigsmyl2:.

Same reason I do no own one of those Dillon contraption.

banger-j

[flyingmonkey35]

If your making 2k rounds a day its no longer a hobby.

[Beagle333]

I'd get that 'almost coated' the first few times I tried the Piglet Method...Got some ugly boolits for sure but they worked fine.


Ahhhhh..... the good ol' Piglet days. They weren't pretty, but they shot just as great as the ones I'm spraying now. :D

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/640003_zps0bb20590.jpg

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/keith011_zps00192d96.jpg

[Mgderf]

I don't cast myself. I've just started reloading as a matter of fact, but I've found someone local to me that does cast and PC's.
The difference in clean-up time alone is enough for me to lean toward the coated boolits.
The fact that my hands stay clean while loading seals the deal.

I'll still use cast, but only if I can't find what I want coated.

[Schrag4]

Maybe you can just PC the inside of the barrel once and then leave the bullets alone! :kidding: Sorry, I couldn't resist.