Mosin Nagant M44 mods?

[pull the trigger]

I really want to restock and scope a Mosin. I have a really nice M44 from Russia with the Importers marks. Is it too rare to butcher. It already has a shorter barrel whick I dig but it is really nice. I rarely see any.

[GhostHawk]

Go buy a cheap one and butcher it to your hearts content!

[jugulater]

as long as the modifications are reversible you wont be destroying its collector value. if you swap the stock, keep the original so you can put it back on. for the scope, they do make scope mounts that use the original sight mounts that are reversible.

[pworley1]

They are not in short supply, It is your rifle do what you want to it.

[nagantguy]

If your mods will make it into a rifle you want and use then why not? If it is a fine specimen than do as ghosthawk says and buy one that's been used to row canoes and pound tent pegs and been chewed on by a beaver.and don't let the guy selling it tell you that nagants with that much character bring a premium.

[Multigunner]

Better to find a pre bubba'ed Mosin Nagant of an earlier type that still has a good bore.
The folding bayonet of the M44 can't be a good feature when it comes to ultimate accuracy. I'm sure it has less unwanted effect than it might, but its bound to have an effect on barrel harmonics and balance.

Look up the Finn sporterized Mosin Nagants. They have made some very interesting alterations mainly by dovetailing extra wood onto the stocks and reshaping the wood to create pistol grips, cheek pieces, and even thumbhole stocks.

The most radical alteration I've seen was a long range target rifle with the bolt handle repositioned to a point behind the bridge so that a Unertal scope could be more solidly mounted.

[leebuilder]

Plus one on all of the above. Mosins are fun, but once they are gone they are gone, so i can appreciate you not destroying any collector value it may have. There have been a few posts lately here on this very subject. But with that said it is your rifle and you should fix it to suit your neads. May i suggest getting a 91/30 and cutting it down, there are so many aftermarket do-dads and hods-n-sods for Mosins so i am sure you will be able to build something unique and servicable. If you have questions please ask.
Be safe

[Artful]

I say go for it but choose your starting point well.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/0612112302.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Misc/0612112302.jpg.html)
M38 had barrel counterbored but was pretty good bore and wood was good and still tight mechanically. Remade as a scout rifle.

[Remiel]

get a type 53 generally around 100 bucks, then do what you will and keep the m44 as it is

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I keep mine pretty conservative:

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o560/Smith-Sights/Current%20Rifle%20Configuration/3.jpg

There's not a whole lot, externally, to show that this is a user-friendly, sub-moa rifle.

There are really no aftermarket stocks that I like.

I would start by grabbing a common 91/30. Shim it and shoot it. If it won't hold 2.5moa with factory heavy ball ammo, it's probably not worth modding. If, however, it does better than 2.5moa, chances are it can be made to do a lot better.

The processes outlined at http://www.smith-sights.com/accurizing-the-mosin-nagant-a-year-later.php were just updated today.

They can be applied to any stock, original or aftermarket.

What do you want this Mosin to do?

Regards,

Josh

[CHeatermk3]

"They are not in short supply, It is your rifle do what you want to it."

+1
I have a couple m44s I did one for my son by cutting the bayo mount lugs off and adding an ATI scout mount. It's good for 2-inch groups using PPU 150 grain softpoint ammo and has accounted for 2 nice bucks in 2 years. Powerful and handy in the brush Too.

[Charley]

Krags, M1903s and M1917s weren't in short supply once upon a time, either. Find one that is already cut for cheap, and go from there.

[Garyshome]

get a type 53.. I got mine from Buds Guns, Nice bore **** stock

[OKSaddletramp]

There are a few mods you can make that do not permanently alter your M44 at all, and a couple that will alter your stock, but not excessively. There are a number of scout scope mounts that replace the rear sight or sight base. If you want to add a standard scope, however, you will probably have to drill and tap the receiver. The front sight base/bayonet lug are only held on with two pins. If you go with a scout scope, you can just remove the base and store it. If you like to use the iron sights, you buy a replacement front sight mount and cut off the bayonet lug behind the sight base, leaving your original untouched for future restoration.

Be advised, removing the bayonet and/or the lug WILL affect the harmonics of the barrel and will probably change your POI, usually shooting higher. If you go with a scope, no biggy. but if you stick with Iron sights, you'll have to make an adjustment to the front sight. 12g wire insulation supposedly slips over the front sight post and you can adjust it for any POI you wish. You may want to think about pillar bedding the stock and free floating the barrel. This will require that you hog out some of the interior of the stock, but it's not something that will show and might be something you want to consider as a cheap improvement in accuracy, whether you keep the rest of the gun stock or not.

Lastly, if you find the trigger pull too stiff, or don't like the slop in the single stage trigger, there are a couple of cures that don't permanently alter your action. There is a trigger return spring on the market that takes out the floppy feeling, but won't change the trigger pull weight. To adjust trigger weight, try placing a thin, small shim between the bolt stop spring and the action. Don't use too thick a shim, because the bolt stop will no longer stop the bolt from falling out the back, and you very easily could get slam fires. Some people have used small regular hardware washers drilled out to fit the spring retention screw and reported that trigger pull was reduced by half. If you just HAVE to have a great trigger, Timney makes a drop-in for the Mosin, that actually adds a safety as well as providing a crisp, adjustable trigger. You'll have to modify the stock to make room for the safety. But the Timney costs as much as the rifle. Your choice.

Disclaimer: I have not personally done any of these mods (yet). I just received my $99 type 53 and after I get all the hard "cosmoline" cleaned out I will be trying a few of these myself, as well a replacing the trashed out stock , probably with an ATI Monte Carlo stock. Good luck with yours.

[Ken in Iowa]

Krags, M1903s and M1917s weren't in short supply once upon a time, either. Find one that is already cut for cheap, and go from there.

+1
Ken

[leebuilder]

Maybe we should get all our Mosin mods and tricked out rifles and make a sticky?
Lots of wicked info here to enjoy.
what do you milsurpers think?

[pull the trigger]

Krags, M1903s and M1917s weren't in short supply once upon a time, either. Find one that is already cut for cheap, and go from there.
This is what my mind was circling but had not landed on. Thank you
What I want to do is build a fairly accurate target type rifle with a good scope in solid mounts and a verticle grip. I want to build up the stock and probly paint it unless it turns out good enough. I really want to do it cheap and make it look like it was done along time ago in a foreign country. If I was made of money I would buy one of those Finn 76 target models

[Tackleberry41]

What are the differences between a carbine M44 and the longer M91 stock? I have a war production 91 rifle I cut the barrel down on. It came with an ATI stock, but its not that great of a stock. I had to mod the stock just to be able to use the magazine, and so the barrel wasnt clamped in place. Obviously dont want to spend a bunch of money on it. Was tempted to just dig up an original stock to mod, what keeps a cut down 91 from fitting in a M44 stock?

[LAGS]

I have shortened the 91 stocks to fit the M-44 and 53
they are very similar, and modifications arent really that hard.
But then again, I have been making stocks for 30 years.
But some of the first ones that I modified, were the 91's to fit shorter barreled 91's and 53's

[Artful]

T If I was made of money I would buy one of those Finn 76 target models
excellent choice - as it's long barrel I'd look for a 91 with shot out barrel and rebarrel it with correct .308 barrel and restock it.
http://www.empirearms.com/28-76.jpg

Finish 28-76
In this picture is stock for model TAK 85. Notice that the whole action is floating (no contact to stock) and so it need a special bushing round the barrel which beds the whole action to stock.
This kind of rifle is very accurate when properly built.

http://nitroexpress.info/ezine/CptCurlFiles/ClassicArchive/Lancaster/Mosin_Sporting_Rifle/kbbyxg.jpg

http://nitroexpress.info/ezine/CptCurlFiles/ClassicArchive/Lancaster/Mosin_Sporting_Rifle/fc1tt.jpg


From Brent Snodgrass - Mosin Nagant. net, Gunboards.com , Co-author Finland At War

Intro: In November of 1939 Finland was invaded by their massive neighbor, the Soviet Union. The Soviet's planned on quickly overwhelming their smaller adversary relying on strength of numbers and mass of fire. Finland was to counter with speed of movement and a heavy reliance on accurate small arms fire.

The Finns knew they could never match the Red Army in numbers but understood that an army of marksmen would be able to take a heavy toll on the Soviet invaders. As such the Finns worked to improve their versions of the Mosin Nagant rifle to be much more accurate than those produced in the Soviet Union.

Today the accuracy of Finnish Mosin Nagants are seen as the standard that all other Mosin Nagant rifles are measured to. One of the most famous and most accurate of all the Finnish rifles is the Model M28/30 and the tradition of the M28/30 lives on in the later M28/76 Marksmanship rifle.

Finn Target & Marksmanship Rifles:

After the Wars Finland began the task of developing a number of special marksmanship and target rifles. These rifles were to be used in general training, marksmanship qualification, military competition , sniper training and other such duties. These rifles were to be made for both the Finnish Army as well as the Frontier (Border) Guards. The first such rifles manufactured were designated the M28/57 with these being produced in 1957-1958. The M28/57 was a M28/30 barrel with added diopter sights (the diopter sights on these rifles was very much like the Suomen Leijona or Finnish Lion .22 LR target rifle ), having a bent bolt, and made use of either M28/30 stocks or M39 stocks.

The M28/57's were designed not as a standard military rifle but more as a competition or target shooting practice rifle. By the 1970's a new stock had been designed which was in the style of a biathlon rifle being shorter than a standard stock. These new stocks were made as fitting a biathlon sling to standard M28/30 and M39 stock was problematic. The stocks were made shorter as it was felt the added length would suffer the effects of humidity. The work on these new stocks was done at AV1 and rifles fitted with these were stocks were given a new designation of the M28/57H.

The next stage of development came in the mid 1960's as there was a need for the Finns to manufacture a marksmanship rifle that would meet the standards of international military competition rules. The rifle that was to come from this work was the M28/66. Chief of Ordnance Department Major-General Allan Hallila approved the making of these new rifles but insisted that if such a rifle was to be made as a part of the work a new sniper rifle would also have to be developed.

The m28/66 was categorized as a "standard" rifle as the rifle and all the components were standardized - not made for individual shooters. Like the M28/57, the M28/66 used a M28/30 barrel, had diopter sights, but did not use a normal rear sight as was seen on earlier or later marksmanship rifles. These rifles also had a bent bolt but many had an added ring added to the cocking knob (this is common to see on Finnish made Mosin Nagant sporter rifles today). The triggers of these rifles were also reworked making the triggers into match quality. Most of these rifles were manufactured at Valmet Oy Tourula and while total production is unknown these rifles were made in very small quantities.

The only Finnish soldiers that made use of these rifles were those taking part in actual shooting competitions as there were not enough produced for other uses. The stocks of the M28/66's were made of walnut which is a change from the more standard birch wood seen on most Finnish Mosin Nagants. Even though it was supposed to be a requirement of development there was not a sniper rifle produced from the M28/66.

The M28/76 - The Finns were not totally satisfied with the M28/66 so yet another project was undertaken in the 1970's. This venture would lead to one of the most exceptional Mosin Nagants ever produced, the M28/76. There were two designs of the M28/76 manufactured, one being a standard target/marksmanship version and the other being a sniper rifle.

The only real difference between the two models is the addition of a base on the sniper version that allowed the use of a scope and mount. In many regards the M28/76 is just an update of the M28/57 and M28/66 but there are some differences. The main difference between the M28/76 and the M28/66 is the rear sights as the M28/76 uses a standard rear sight (these can be either M28/30 or M39 sights). There are also internal differences as well which means that stocks from the M28/76 and M28/66 are not interchangeable, even if externally these stocks look much the same. The M28/76 also uses a birch stock not a walnut stock as seen with the M28/66 and the stocks for the M28/77 were manufactured by AV1.

There is also a difference in the configuration of the front sight as well. The main differences between the M28/76 and the M28/57 are the stock, slight differences in the diopter sights, the bolt, and other internal alterations.

Information on the M28/76 (in fact on all of the Finnish marksmanship rifles) has been scarce outside of Finland and it was not until recently that it was known by those of us in the West that the M28/76's used a number of barrel types. It was thought that M28/30 barrel were the only barrels used but it is now known that is not the case. There are standard M28/30 barrels that can have dates from 1934-1940 but there are also rifles that have the so called "late date" M28/30 barrels - these bearing 1968 or 1969 dates or no date at all. M39 barrels were also used on M28/76's and it seems that all of the M39 barrel are also later dates - from 1968 to 1970. The last main barrel type is a specially made barrel for these rifles bearing the date of 1977 or no date. There are like barrels that can be found on the M28/66 rifles. These specifically made barrels are of the same specifications of M28/30 barrels.

Note - The D166 marking is rather interesting as it shows the rifle was used with the D-166 round. There is another example of such a barrel marked D47 another Finnish bullet type (Thanks to Gunboards.com members for sharing some of these markings on our Collectors Forum board)

In later service these were the rifles used by Finnish soldiers and officers used to qualify in their training (keep up to standard). These soldiers had to qualify with a pistol, a rifle, and an assault rifle. For many years the rifle used to qualify was the M39 but these were phased out by the M28/76's as in recent years these rifles were used more often than not in such shooting. The M28/76 was made to be an excellent shooting rifle, one that could perform in military competitions or be used as a sniper rifle. As such all work done in regards to these rifles was of the highest quality.

Here are statements from Finnish shooters in regard to these rifles.

"All M/28-76 were carefully hand-fitted and I would expect their triggers to be as good as M/28-30 triggers can get and their actions to be as slick as Mosin-Nagant action can ever be."

"I was able to shoot a few versions of marksmanship rifles and liked the M28/76 better than all others but for the TAK85"

"Sad to see most were sold to the USA as many Finn sporting shooters value these."

"In 1991 I saw members of a sniper squad firing these rifles in practice during a training session"

For US Collectors -
For many North Americans that collect Finnish rifles it has always been a dream to own a TAK85 Sniper rifle, which is the last of the Mosin Nagant line; however, due to import/export issues in Finland this might be a dream that goes unfulfilled.

As the TAK85 is still being used (even if mainly as a trainer) by the Finnish Defense Forces it might be years before these become available for export to the US. So in many regards the next best thing we can own is one of the M28/76's. While there are many differences between the M28/76 and the TAK85 they are both exceptional rifles that should be capable of true match accuracy.

The Finns had a high standard when it came to accuracy and they demanded much from their marksmanship rifle, so in most cases these rifles will only be limited by the person behind the barrel. The M28/76 is also one of the last production versions of the Mosin Nagant and that fact in its own right makes the rifles interesting. In my personal examination of these rifles I was amazed at their quality and could not wait to add one to my collection. I tested the triggers on at least 80 rifles and each trigger was smooth and sharp.

There was also only a limited import of these rifles by TGI with the total number of rifles being less than 900. For those that are target shooters these rifles should fit your needs quite well and for those that fire in military matches these rifles should qualify in many cases as they are indeed military rifles.

The M28/76's were never sold or designed as a civilian rifle but were made for the use of the Finnish Defense Forces. They should meet the standards of many clubs that run military only style matches but then again some clubs are very strict when it comes to the use of a foreign weapon. It is odd in that they will allow many US rifles that never saw any issue or military use but hold rifles made outside the USA to another standard.

TGI has a special offering of these rifles listed on the Gunboards.com Trader - At this point 10/20/08 they are the only outlet for these rifles. TGI bought all the rifles the Finns had for sale so there will be no more imports in the future. As a Finnish collector this is the chance to own an uncommon and very well made Finnish military rifle. There are no snipers for sale at this point but these will be for sale at a later date.

Sight with the double stack. Both are correct for the M28/76 rifle as these came with the rifles direct from import in this manner.

It is possible one version is from the earlier M28/66 or M28/57 - Still both sets were made for use on the M28/76.

One set of sights does not seem to be more common than the others based on what I saw at the import of the rifles.

Brent Snodgrass was allowed access to the import and took shots of these rifles just as they were being sorted for import. This allows the members here to get a first look at how these rifles came into the country. My thanks to TGI for the access.

This was an interesting rifle as it still had Imperial Russia Eagles, was SA marked (Finnish Army), and also had the later Finnish Defense Forces marking of the castle. Quite a collection of markings.

TGI had the collector in mind when they marked the receivers of these rifles. When the bolt is closed these numbers can not be seen.

TGI put their import marking under the barrel so it does not take away from the looks of the rifle.

Sources - Thanks

Sotilaskasiaseet Suomessa 1918-1991 Vol1-3-M. Palokangas: Vammalan Kirijapaino Oy

[pull the trigger]

That there is a great bit of info! Looks like I gotta make what I want. Definately not gonna find it at my LGS

[Clark]

I have come up with lots of Mosin Nagant modifications, but this is one I am going to do again, this time in 300 Win Mag


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZp6R2sim7k