Linotype Question's

[coxa2]

First time posting and in need of some advice.
Was at the local scrapyard today and came across a couple things that I have a questions about. First is a lead bar that was 2-2.5 feet long and 2-3in thick. Say's Linotype Parts Corp. I talked to the owner and they said it came out of a local printing press. My questions is have any of you run across a bar like this and what is it's make up?

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p718/abcox2010/downsize%201_zps3ntgkgy5.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/abcox2010/media/downsize%201_zps3ntgkgy5.jpg.html)

Next question: Is this linotype or the same composition as linotype? It came from the same printing press. It is .170" thick and seems to break and not bend like pure lead. When dropped on a cement floor it has a "ring" to it and not a solid "thud" like pure lead does.
http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p718/abcox2010/downsize%202_zpsckfttcj8.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/abcox2010/media/downsize%202_zpsckfttcj8.jpg.html)

Any input would be appreciated!

Andy

[TCFAN]

Hope you bought it all. It is good stuff. Makes great boolits especially 22 cal. boolits. It can also be mixed with wheel weights or pure lead. Buy it all...........Terry

[coxa2]

Well looks like I'm headed back to the yard with a little more cash!

[white eagle]

The bar is 100 %Linotype I have one like it
printers used it for their type
if you can score more grab it

[kungfustyle]

If you run out of cash sell what you bought and get more!!!!!! People here will help take some off your hands.

[454PB]

I agree, get all you can. Those thinner "spacer" strips can be anything from linotype metal to soft lead, but if they snap rather than bend, call them linotype.

[BigBronco]

The Linotype bar was called a PIG. Linotype had to be harder than regular lead when it cools to last for hundreds if not thousands of impressions of printing. A bit of a history lesson from a guy who ran a Linotype machine for a short period of time. The pig was suspended over a melting pot that injected the hot metal into a bank of gathered molds (Matts) stacked together to form a line (Sentence or other info) of type for a platen type press. Usually about 4 to 6 inches in length. These lines of cast type would be gathered together in the proper order to form the page or proper size of raised type. Then locked in to a frame (chase) placed in the press and charged with ink. Pressed directly on to the paper. Should you ever read a cast line of type you will notice it is reverse lettering or mirror image of the text to be printed. The Linotype machine was a technological advance from gathering up each letter from a jobcase full of individual letters and setting the text by hand. It was like a giant typewriter with wheels and motors a humming. It also dod not use the now standard QWERTY keyboard. Keys were mechanical like an old Remington typewriter. Something right out of the H.G Wells era.

Though Linotype machines are rarely used any more, we bullet casters benefit from the surplus alloy that was needed for the printing industry.

If you look to the left edge center of the picture you can see the PIG suspended in the Linotype machine.

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab121/BigBronco92/10_zps7bkhlssh.jpg (http://s856.photobucket.com/user/BigBronco92/media/10_zps7bkhlssh.jpg.html)

[RogerDat]

Thin strips were placed between the "lines of text" strips to control spacing. Since the spacers where not as tall as the printing surface they did not have to be as hard and could even be cheaper soft lead (soft enough to bend) but since the shop would have lots of linotype alloy it was also common to make the spacers out of that (hard enough to snap when bent).

I suppose it is possible for the spacers to be an even more exact linotype alloy since unlike the pieces with the text they were not being constantly re-melted and re-cast where they can experience some loss of alloy during the re-melting.

Great alloy to have, mixed 5 or even 8 to 1 with plain or COWW's it yields everything from good pistol plinking ammo to Hardball and can be used to make alloy intended for bullets used at 2000 fps or more. Should be about twice as hard as COWW's with a good amount of tin thrown into the bargain.

[coxa2]

Was able to score 9 of these "pigs"!
http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p718/abcox2010/downsize%204_zpsfomqleq8.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/abcox2010/media/downsize%204_zpsfomqleq8.jpg.html)

[coxa2]

202 lbs total

[Beagle333]

Big Score!!!!! :holysheep

[Fritz D]

Good writeup BigBronco. I own a small printing shop, we had 2 Linotypes which I operated until the late 80s. One was scrapped and the other sold ages ago. I still miss those big old beasts, they were mechanical wonders. Luckily, I was already into boolit casting at the time, so I kept all the lead. I've still got a nice stack of "pigs" in a corner of my shop, likely close to a ton.

[RogerDat]

Totally a win for the Home Team! Good score.

Love to see that printers stuff get "recycled" by bullet casters, the world has enough other places to get lead for battery terminals and such.

[ascast]

is the PIG as shown particular to printing? i.e. always Linotype? I ask as I scored 6 "pigs" at a lawn sale a couple years ago for $30. There is no labling of any kind. I have not had the time to fool with them yet.

[BigBronco]

is the PIG as shown particular to printing? i.e. always Linotype? I ask as I scored 6 "pigs" at a lawn sale a couple years ago for $30. There is no labling of any kind. I have not had the time to fool with them yet.

If your PIGS have the open eye hole on one end then yes they were 99% probability they were what is also known as Linotype or foundry metal. Possibly there may have been uses for them in Pewter making shops or a factory that made high volume cast lead products, however I am uncertain about that.

I wish I had a bunch of them.

[Fritz D]

is the PIG as shown particular to printing? i.e. always Linotype? I ask as I scored 6 "pigs" at a lawn sale a couple years ago for $30. There is no labling of any kind. I have not had the time to fool with them yet.

See post #12. I still have the equipment to melt the lines-of-type and cast new pigs. I have several pig molds, some of them have the word LINOTYPE, others have no labling (like yours and some of the pigs in post #9). To answer your question . . . I think it's safe to say that the pigs shown in this thread are particular to the printing industry and "probably" are Linotype alloy.

[fredj338]

I used to buy lino in 22# pigs like coxa shows. Great for mixing with pure lead or range scrap. Good score if the price was right.

[RogerDat]

If one sees the keyhole in the end of a bar like these have then it is probably Lino. That was the place that a hook went for feeding each bar into the melt. Have seen bars that tested as Lino that were flat on one side, pretty much a half round cross section but with those exact same hook eyelets at one end. Sometimes the hooks break off, Lino is brittle and it is easy for those to break off over time.

I see hook, or where the hook broke off on a bar I would snatch it up.
Check out these images, lot of different forms but a place for the hook is constant. Yours are a shape I have never seen before.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&q=Linotype+pigs+or+bars

Couple of those pictures with stacks of pigs are just to drool over.

[BigBronco]

For those of you that would like to see a Linotype machine in operation. Brings back memories. You might want to skip the first minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mFtroOIv3o

[coxa2]

I used to buy lino in 22# pigs like coxa shows. Great for mixing with pure lead or range scrap. Good score if the price was right.
60 cents per pound . . . Didn't think that was bad!

[RogerDat]

60 cents per pound . . . Didn't think that was bad!

You don't think it was bad might be because it is GREAT price. Heck scrap yards charge more than that for lead drain pipe that is 10% soap gunk and hair of unknown origin by weight.

[Beagle333]

For those of you that would like to see a Linotype machine in operation. Brings back memories. You might want to skip the first minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mFtroOIv3o

This still was the best part of that video, IMHO!! :bigsmyl2: Lookit all that silvery goodness!!

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/lino_zpse3lmag2x.jpg

[lightman]

Congrats on that score! That stuff is getting hard to find and that is a great price.

[bruce381]

last i paid was a $1 lb and i thought that was good

[facetious]

Hear is a good link for info on type metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_metal

A lot of the stuff that gets gets sold as lino is stereotype metal.

I started working in a news paper press room in 1979 working on web letter press. By that time thy had stopped using lead plates . When I started casting around 1981 I was given old plate lead by a number of guys that had taken it home to make fishing sinkers. It may seam strange but when I started casting it was harder for me to get WW's then lino. I would mix it 50-50 to get my WW's to last longer.

Even if you don't shoot them you should try casting with some of the type metal's just for fun. When you see how good it cast's you will wonder why you even try to make some of the stuff you find work.

If you add about 5% lino to WW's it will make your WW's cast a lot better.

135239

This what a lead printing plate looks like. I still have two of them but hate to melt them down. You will never see them again. Thy weigh 40 lb each. Old pressman used to say that you never wanted to mess with the plate boy. After lifting and carrying the things around all day every day for years thy could kick your butt and not have to try to hard. I have about 30 lb's melted down to add to what ever I find and should last me a long time.

[ioon44]

[QUOTE=coxa2;3194765]First time posting and in need of some advice.
Was at the local scrapyard today and came across a couple things that I have a questions about. First is a lead bar that was 2-2.5 feet long and 2-3in thick. Say's Linotype Parts Corp. I talked to the owner and they said it came out of a local printing press. My questions is have any of you run across a bar like this and what is it's make up?

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p718/abcox2010/downsize%201_zps3ntgkgy5.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/abcox2010/media/downsize%201_zps3ntgkgy5.jpg.html)

Next question: Is this linotype or the same composition as linotype? It came from the same printing press. It is .170" thick and seems to break and not bend like pure lead. When dropped on a cement floor it has a "ring" to it and not a solid "thud" like pure lead does.
http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p718/abcox2010/downsize%202_zpsckfttcj8.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/abcox2010/media/downsize%202_zpsckfttcj8.jpg.html)

Any input would be appreciated!

Andy[/QUOTE

I have a linotype Ingot mold just like the ingot in your picture. I have bought linotype ingots from salvage yards that after testing were not Linotype.


You need to be able to test what you are buying or trust the source.

[RogerDat]

Lino in ingot form, is hard enough that it rings when struck against a concrete floor (zinc will also ring BTW). Will break not dent or bend. If struck with a hammer you can snap the ends off. Especially the ears are easy to break off. Has a course grain like 50 or 60 grit sandpaper where it broke. Melts very easily at a lower temp and with much less heat than alloys with higher percentage of lead. Will not react by fizzing when acid is applied which would respond to zinc.

It is possible to get "fake" lino pigs, but not common. If I was purchasing for $2 a lb. as lino I would be a bit more cautious than I would be if I was paying scrap lead price. As long as it is lead I'm getting what I paid for at scrap lead price, lino is just a huge bonus.

Helps if there is a back story to the source of the lead that is believable. It is from the high school print shop, the old newspaper building just torn down etc. Or if there is other printer lead associated with it. I dug some busted up pieces of a lino bar out of a bin because there were a few lino strips and monotype letters also there. The pieces seemed like the could be lino and one piece looked like it had ears at one time. Figured in the end what the heck it was lead, I was paying for it as lead. Nothing to loose, gained about 11# of lino.

One thing to bear in mind, Lino went through multiple casting and re-melting cycles. This would deplete the tin and antimony. Tin and antimony were periodically added to the melt to refresh the depleted alloy. Entirely possible to get Lino that was at the depleted end of that cycle. Even lines of type themselves could be on their "last run" before getting fresh alloy material melted in. This Lino would have a lower tin/antimony percentage when gunned than the standard percentages listed in charts and tables.

Easy to imagine a small print operation shortly before going out of business letting the expensive alloy content slide. Or even a big operation dumping the lead without concerning themselves with keeping the pallet slated to be refreshed separate from the good stuff.

[lightman]

I have a quick question for BigBronco or FritzD. But first a little background. I drove a truck for a newspaper when I was younger and I started casting while I worked there. They had gone to a more modern process and no longer used any sort of lead. I ask around and was given a large amount of mixed type. Lino,Mono, Foundry and several pigs and parts of pigs. There was a sheet of lead, maybe 1/16 to 1/8 in thick and the size of a newspaper page in the pile. What might it be? Its smooth on both sides and seems to be hard.

[Fritz D]

I have a quick question for BigBronco or FritzD. There was a sheet of lead, maybe 1/16 to 1/8 in thick and the size of a newspaper page in the pile. What might it be? Its smooth on both sides and seems to be hard.

Sorry, that's a new one to me. I'd also be interested to know what it is. :confused:

[RogerDat]

Could it be a backer for the letter press? Think I saw a member post about plates that went behind type. Maybe for mono type?

[Sekatoa]

I have seen the linotype pig molds for sale before on eBay, so use caution. it's possible for unscrupulous people to cast pigs with other alloys or plain lead and sell as linotype, or just cast them for there own purposes, etc., and later be sold off by someone who knows nothing about them. Probably more likely on eBay or something, and if the pigs are bought from a print shop inventory, etc., they are likely legit.
As with anything your didnt blend yourself from know materials, or from rotometals, etc.,
Some hardness testing, drop and bending testing, are needed to have a good idea what it likely is. Sounds like OP has done this and it's a pretty safe to use as lino.

Example, have large I got mold that casts 1x2 ingots marked "Monotype" ?It was pretty rusty when I bought it, and I thought it said "Linotype", as did the seller. I bought it to cast my smelted linotype into a uniform blend that be nicely and permanently marked. After cleaning it up, I saw it was not what I wanted. But I still use it as I intended, but really, only I know it's lino, not mono. I keep a "key" printed out with my alloys, noting what molds or marking are what, but it's plausible someday after I'm gone my wife or kids will sell at a yard sale or something. When I remember after making a run, I sometimes, but not always, stamp an "L" over "M".

I guess what I'm try to say is just because you find something cast from a particular mold stamping, it's not safe to assume that's what it is.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The sound sounds like linotype or one of its friends and relations, but you have to beware of the name of a company on the bar. Anything built in recent years by Electric Boat is unlikely to be an electric boat. Linotype compositions do vary a bit, a typical one being about 4% tin and 12% antimony. But there are others, such as monotype, which are richer in antimony and tin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_metal

They will all cast with extreme precision (it is what they were designed for) and will shoot extremely well. But they are wasteful of the metals which are more expensive than lead, and they will be brittle on impact. That is undesirable with large and/or edible game, and even the target-only user may not want his salvaged range lead to come in small fragments. Simple alloying with lead isn't ideal. High-lead mixtures will still be a little brittle when less hard, and may cause bore leading by undetectable lead exposed in a lattice of antimony crystals. But it won't be bad.

[454PB]

If one sees the keyhole in the end of a bar like these have then it is probably Lino. That was the place that a hook went for feeding each bar into the melt. Have seen bars that tested as Lino that were flat on one side, pretty much a half round cross section but with those exact same hook eyelets at one end. Sometimes the hooks break off, Lino is brittle and it is easy for those to break off over time.

I see hook, or where the hook broke off on a bar I would snatch it up.
Check out these images, lot of different forms but a place for the hook is constant. Yours are a shape I have never seen before.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&q=Linotype+pigs+or+bars

Couple of those pictures with stacks of pigs are just to drool over.

Huh....a couple of those pictures are mine!

[coxa2]

Just did the "official" pencil hardness test and they test between 22-26. The H pencil would not scratch them but the 2H would.