trail boss

[bigted]

got some loaded rounds in 45 Colt and did it the way the powder manufacturer recommended to do it when they came out with it early on;

- take your boolit and measure from the base to the crimp groove.

- now fill the sized and capped case to this line or just a little under it.

- now weigh this charge and this will be the top amount for this combo.

so in my case ... yes my cases ... I did just this. I filled the case to within a fraction of the seated 185 grain boolit and weighed it and came up with 8.5 grains powder with NO COMPRESSION. so I used this 8.5 grain as my max load and loaded 5 with the 8.5 grain load ... then 5 with 8 grains ... then 5 with 7.5 ... then 5 with 7 grains ... then 5 with 6.5 grains ... doing this as a ladder test to find out where my poa comes to the closest to the poi.

this sound rite? revolver I will use will be a second gen Colt 7.5 inch barrel.

thanks.

[flyingmonkey35]

Yup

I'm liking the trail boss loads in 45 colt.

[bigted]

so my conundrum is that my loads are in excess of any of my books. is this method of finding a MAX load still a recommended method according to the manufacturers?

[DrCaveman]

Yes, it seems...in everything except the 45 colt. Book max charges are well below the stated guidelines for other calibers

The max listed for my 255 gr lee was 5.8. Max to bottom of seated boolit was around 7.5-8 gr i think. I took it up to 6.3, found a good load. Pressures are probably above the 14,000 psi 45 colt level, im not sure but i believe the books. Whether i believe this is harming my cimarron/pietta, well that is my call

[firebrick43]

That is NOT the trailboss loading method. You forgot the step were you multiply the weight by .7

this gives you 70% of the case capacity.

[Tackleberry41]

I figured out that a 45acp case used as a scoop does a pretty good job. Had a 1858 conversion cyl at the time, now all I have stronger guns so no need to use TB anymore.

[bigted]

That is NOT the trailboss loading method. You forgot the step were you multiply the weight by .7

this gives you 70% of the case capacity.

thanks. I was under the impression that you did the conclusion with the powder just under the boolit base ... and this was the max load ... then the multiply by .70 to arrive at the beginning load ... or minimum load.

at any rate my load found of 8.5 grains multiplied by the .70 is still over the books I have by a bit ... altho not by much ... being 5.9 grains.

[bigted]

https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-Reduced-Loads%20R_P.pdf

thought this might be nice to read as I found it too. I had forgotten where I found the data so here it is. thanks for the inspiration to go digging again before I shot my ladder tests.

[bangerjim]

I just follow the published loads in the books! No problem here. No math involved! Just load and shoot. 45LC are the only cal I use TB in.......when you can even find it!


banger-j

[NC_JEFF]

I think the 70% or .7 method is usually for finding a starting load for Trail Boss in most rifle cartridges. I think I would use published data where available and there are a lot of sources for TB in 45 Colt. I've shot TB in 45 Colt and was pleased with the results from both an accuracy and recoil perspective. Be safe.

JD

[bigted]

shot most of em. went low to high so started with 5.5 grain load ... went to the 6 grain load next ... 6.5 next and then the 7 grain loads ... these followed with the 7.5 grain loads , beginning to show a very small bit of primer sign to indicate I was getting close to the top load ... followed up with the 8 grain load and they showed more signs of building pressure. I stopped there and brought the 8.5 grain loads back home and pulled em.

really tho the 7 grain loads with the 185 grain boolit did the best in accuracy anyhow. they went into a 2.4 inch circle clustered nice n tight. think I could improve on em but ... the whole deal here was to find a boolit that would print lower then the 5 to 7 inch high 260 grainers. got my wish and they even printed around 1.5 inch low at 15 yards. so my quest for boolits in .454 inch diameter continues.

now im looking for some 200 grain as well as some 230 grain boolits in the magical .454 inch diameter to try. at least im making bag now and seeing the end of the rainbow with a satisfactory result I can live with.

[Harry O]

I have loaded my newmodel .45 Colt Vaqeros up to 8.7gr of Trail Boss (what I thought was full to the base of the case without compression), a 255gr 452424 cast bullet with Starline brass and SPG lube. No problems of any kind.

I started out at the maximum listed in the loading manual (I think it was 6.0 or 6.5gr). That load did not even seal the brass. It came out of the gun with the forward 1/3 or so of the case blackened. Accuracy was poor. I increased the load in increments from there. It started sealing the case at about 7.2 or 7.3gr. Accuracy improved quite a bit when it started sealing. I decided since I was already over the book maximum, that I should work up to a full load and see what happens. Nothing particularly dramatic happened. Accuracy was a little bit worse at 8.7gr, but it was still more accurate than when the cases were not sealing. I decided to make my standard plinking load 7.5gr.

[GCBurner]

I've been using 7.9 grains of Trail Boss over a cast 250gr round nose boolit in my Rossi Model 92 rifle. It's pretty accurate, in my gun, and hits with some authority down range from a 20" barrel.

[brettb75]

Trail boss is one of my favorites. I love light loads in 44 special and 38 special. I also had a little luck in 32 long with trail boss

[rond]

Trail Boss is not a low pressure powder, it has more volume to grain weight to fill the case. I use cowboy load data for Trail Boss, for more power I use different powders.

[Tackleberry41]

trailboss can be an odd one, it was developed for use in big BP cases like the 45 colt, BP pressure and velocity without the mess of BP. And many use it in stuff like the 223 for subsonic use. But I always found it to have large velocity swings in pretty much everything. Well until I tried it in the miniscule 32 S&W, where it seems to really shine. More velocity than anything else smokeless and not very much velocity variation.

[BCB]

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

I've used it in 11 different cartridges and have had mixed results with it. It only did well in the 45 Colt with the Lee 228 grain round nose...

It is sort of a "fun powder" to mess with, if you really like reduced loads...

Good-luck...BCB

Whoops, guess someone else already posted the above link...

[johnson1942]

i cant find trail boss so i use blackhorn 209 in both my cowboy 38/s and my cowboy 45 long colt. very very accurate and clean up when done shooting is easy.

[Tracy]

Can someone enlighten me as to what is so wonderful about Trail Boss? It seems like any time I mention any handload other than a full power rifle load, on just about any forum, I get comments like, "have you tried that with Trail Boss? I would use Trail Boss if I were you. Trail Boss would be so much better for what you are doing." Doesn't matter if the load is 5 grains of Red Dot in a .30-30, 3.5 grains of Bullseye in .38 Special, 6.5 grains of 800X in 9mm, or 4 grains of ffffg in my NAA c&b mini revolver; I get comments that Trail Boss would be much better. Never mind that it costs 35 percent more than 700X or 800X, or 50 percent more than Red Dot cost back when it was readily available (which is why I haven't tried it, btw).

Am I missing something, or is it a case of newbie reloaders pushing the only powder they know anything about?

[tdoyka]

Can someone enlighten me as to what is so wonderful about Trail Boss? It seems like any time I mention any handload other than a full power rifle load, on just about any forum, I get comments like, "have you tried that with Trail Boss? I would use Trail Boss if I were you. Trail Boss would be so much better for what you are doing." Doesn't matter if the load is 5 grains of Red Dot in a .30-30, 3.5 grains of Bullseye in .38 Special, 6.5 grains of 800X in 9mm, or 4 grains of ffffg in my NAA c&b mini revolver; I get comments that Trail Boss would be much better. Never mind that it costs 35 percent more than 700X or 800X, or 50 percent more than Red Dot cost back when it was readily available (which is why I haven't tried it, btw).

Am I missing something, or is it a case of newbie reloaders pushing the only powder they know anything about?

the cost of tb is the same if you take your rifle/pistol powder down to 12oz. it also is dang near impossible to double charge a cartridge( i have tried:(, but i won't deem it possible). tb is NOT case sentsive, mean theres no polyfill and the like to fill tb. you don't have to clean your gun like you do with bp. i've taken tb from the 6.5 creedmoor to the 45-70, cast boolits or regular type bullets. on another forum, a guy uses tb in his 444 marlin lever action to take deer down.

i like tb, even tho some guns don't. my ruger sbh in 44 mag does not like a 250gr mihek hp being pushed by tb. it does like tb when i use it as a 44 special. i love to shoot tb out of 30-40 krag and my 444 marlin and my 45-70. you either like tb or you hate tb. even tho it has been 25+/- years since i first sat down and reloaded a cartridge, i love tb.

[Tracy]

the cost of tb is the same if you take your rifle/pistol powder down to 12oz.

I don't know what you're saying here. The cost is definitely not the same. At Powder Valley, 700X is $123 for an 8 lb jug vs. $104 for a 5 lb jug of Trail Boss. That's $15.38/lb for 700X, $20.80/lb for TB. Also at Powder Valley, TB is $13.40 for 9 oz. vs. $15.40 for 14 oz. of 700X. Converted to lbs that is $23.82/lb for TB and $17.60/lb for 700X. Red Dot is/was even cheaper. Neither 700X nor Red Dot is position sensitive, and both are bulky enough for double charges to not be a problem in most cases.

[tdoyka]

trail boss goes locally $14-16 /9oz. i don't do Powder Valley or like that. h4198 goes for $25/lb and rel7 is around $30/lb. 2 cans(9oz) of tb goes for like $28-32. i don't do red dot or 700x.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

...

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/DEWC008.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/ShawnVT/media/Guns/DEWC008.jpg.html)

[SSGOldfart]

I enjoy loading with Trail Boss too.I've used it for 44 a lot.

[bigboredad]

TB is very fun in huge cases like the 45-70

[dtknowles]

trail boss goes locally $14-16 /9oz. i don't do Powder Valley or like that. h4198 goes for $25/lb and rel7 is around $30/lb. 2 cans(9oz) of tb goes for like $28-32. i don't do red dot or 700x.

How come you don't do Red Dot or 700x? I use both Trail Boss and Red Dot but if I had to give one up it would be Trail Boss. It is just not as flexible and it takes more to do the job. It does fill case more but I don't see it being a good choice for loading 9mm or 40 S&W or 45 ACP. Trail Boss is kind of neat but it seems to be a novelty.

Tim

[tdoyka]

How come you don't do Red Dot or 700x? I use both Trail Boss and Red Dot but if I had to give one up it would be Trail Boss. It is just not as flexible and it takes more to do the job. It does fill case more but I don't see it being a good choice for loading 9mm or 40 S&W or 45 ACP. Trail Boss is kind of neat but it seems to be a novelty.

Tim

i only load up my revolver( 44mag/44sp). most of my tb loads are rifle loads. i think it is much more than a novelty.

[dtknowles]

i only load up my revolver( 44mag/44sp). most of my tb loads are rifle loads. i think it is much more than a novelty.

What kind of Rifle Loads? Why do you like Trial Boss? I open to new uses, I only use Trail Boss in my 44-40 right now. For cast bullets in rifles, I use a few different powders, even some pretty slow ones, mostly from Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook.

Tim

[MarkP]

Can someone enlighten me as to what is so wonderful about Trail Boss? It seems like any time I mention any handload other than a full power rifle load, on just about any forum, I get comments like, "have you tried that with Trail Boss? I would use Trail Boss if I were you. Trail Boss would be so much better for what you are doing." Doesn't matter if the load is 5 grains of Red Dot in a .30-30, 3.5 grains of Bullseye in .38 Special, 6.5 grains of 800X in 9mm, or 4 grains of ffffg in my NAA c&b mini revolver; I get comments that Trail Boss would be much better. Never mind that it costs 35 percent more than 700X or 800X, or 50 percent more than Red Dot cost back when it was readily available (which is why I haven't tried it, btw).


Am I missing something, or is it a case of newbie reloaders pushing the only powder they know anything about?


Probably because people feel it is it is inherently safe due to simplified loading; a full case of powder to bottom of bullet down to 70% of that amount of powder. Using other fast powders you would need to rely on limited published data or trust word-of-mouth data.

[tdoyka]

What kind of Rifle Loads? Why do you like Trial Boss? I open to new uses, I only use Trail Boss in my 44-40 right now. For cast bullets in rifles, I use a few different powders, even some pretty slow ones, mostly from Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook.

Tim

why do i like it? because the recoil and noise is negligble. i can take my 30-40 krag and let my 7yo nephew to shoot 50 yard targets. my sister-in-law luvs to shoot my 444 and 45-70 with tb. they are great when it comes to shooting groundhogs around my house. and i just luv to shoot tb!

i have shot tb with the (have to look some of them up)
6.5 creedmoor with 120gr bt
7-08 with 140gr sst
30-40 krag with 165gr ranch dog and 13.5gr tb
444 marlin with 275gr ranch dog and 280gr wfn gc with 14gr(i think) of tb, 200gr xtp with 16gr of tb, and 230gr wc and 250gr mihek hp.
45-70 with 405gr fbfn
270 win with 130gr bt
7x57 with 140gr sst

ones that i have to shoot tb in
30-30
20 vartarg
243
30-06

out of everything i have tried, only the 6.5cm could not do under 3" at 50 yards. i can do a 1/2 - 1 1/2" at 50 yards with everything else.

i must admit, that i do love trail boss.

[tdoyka]

Probably because people feel it is it is inherently safe due to simplified loading; a full case of powder to bottom of bullet down to 70% of that amount of powder. Using other fast powders you would need to rely on limited published data or trust word-of-mouth data.

and that too!!!

[dtknowles]

why do i like it? because the recoil and noise is negligble. i can take my 30-40 krag and let my 7yo nephew to shoot 50 yard targets. my sister-in-law luvs to shoot my 444 and 45-70 with tb. they are great when it comes to shooting groundhogs around my house. and i just luv to shoot tb!

i have shot tb with the (have to look some of them up)
6.5 creedmoor with 120gr bt
7-08 with 140gr sst
30-40 krag with 165gr ranch dog and 13.5gr tb
444 marlin with 275gr ranch dog and 280gr wfn gc with 14gr(i think) of tb, 200gr xtp with 16gr of tb, and 230gr wc and 250gr mihek hp.
45-70 with 405gr fbfn
270 win with 130gr bt
7x57 with 140gr sst

ones that i have to shoot tb in
30-30
20 vartarg
243
30-06

out of everything i have tried, only the 6.5cm could not do under 3" at 50 yards. i can do a 1/2 - 1 1/2" at 50 yards with everything else.

i must admit, that i do love trail boss.

You could get low noise and reduced recoil with Red Dot. I shoot Red Dot in my .22 Hornet and my 30-30 for reduced loads and they work great. I can see how you would be happy with Trail Boss.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

Can someone enlighten me as to what is so wonderful about Trail Boss?

Absolutely nothing IMO. But we all have different opinions on powders. TB does nothing better and many treat it like reloading training wheels. You really can't overcharge a case. I will stick to small charges of fast powders. I don't shoot any really voluminous cases that I'm not running full tilt.

[flyingmonkey35]

I like TrailBoss in 38 Spl ...

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/DEWC007.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/ShawnTVT/media/Guns/DEWC007.jpg.html)

I don't need to look way down into the case to see it ...

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/DEWC008.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/ShawnTVT/media/Guns/DEWC008.jpg.html)
Why does your photo look like milk and cheeros

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[Whiterabbit]

Why does your photo look like milk and cheeros

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[Three-Fifty-Seven]

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