An old one I was given today

[retread]

135127135128135129

I can find no maker marks. I presume from the locks of it might be a one off handcrafted piece. Did some work for a friend and since I would not accept payment he insisted I take this. He knows my hobbies. Trigger and hammer all work properly. Trigger is surprisingly crisp.

Anyone that can shed some light on this piece please chime in.

[bouncer50]

Any proof marks stamps.

[JonnyReb]

Is that a cut down musket by chance?

[mazo kid]

That would be my guess.

[retread]

No proof marks visible. A little small in scale to be a cut down musket I would think. The overall length is 11-1/4"

[johnson1942]

could it be something cut down and used by the natives? ask waksupi, he may have a idea.

[waksupi]

I'm thinking it is an early Dutch gun, cut down.

[fast ronnie]

Don't know what it is, but sure looks neat.

[nekshot]

sure would be acceptable to me! Was his name Jack?

[johnson1942]

the french cree would ride up next to a buffalo with guns like that with the barrel in the air as the bullet wasnt patched and cock it, pivot the gun down and fire point blank at the buffalo. sometimes the ball came off of the powder and they would lose 1/2 a hand. most of the time they got the buffalo. they carried the balls in their mouth. they would load the powder on the run spit the ball down the barrel, prime pivot and fire and another buffalo went down. the museum of the fur trade at chadron ne. could help you out in figureing out what it is. they may even want to buy it.also they may even try to talk you into donateing to them. i wouldnt do that because of one policy that is little known about they have. they sell off their donated guns from time to time and i would never donate so they could sell it as i could have done that. other than that they know a lot about guns of that type.

[pworley1]

Congratulations. Let us know what you find out about it.

[w5pv]

Didn't know about the selling of donated items sure changes my thoughts of donating

[pietro]

.


FWIW, sometimes, a maker's mark can be found on the inside surface of the lockplate.



.

[usmc1963]

looks like an old cav gun to me it hung from a lanyard

[retread]

the french cree would ride up next to a buffalo with guns like that with the barrel in the air as the bullet wasnt patched and cock it, pivot the gun down and fire point blank at the buffalo. sometimes the ball came off of the powder and they would lose 1/2 a hand. most of the time they got the buffalo. they carried the balls in their mouth. they would load the powder on the run spit the ball down the barrel, prime pivot and fire and another buffalo went down. the museum of the fur trade at chadron ne. could help you out in figureing out what it is. they may even want to buy it.also they may even try to talk you into donateing to them. i wouldnt do that because of one policy that is little known about they have. they sell off their donated guns from time to time and i would never donate so they could sell it as i could have done that. other than that they know a lot about guns of that type.

Emailed the Museum of Fur Trade with attached photos and asked them if they could shed and light on the origins of the piece. Hopefully they will get back to me but not until next week at the earliest, this being Friday. I will post their reply.

retread

[waksupi]

I worked with museums for over thirty years, doing restoration, reproductions, cataloging, and display set ups. Yes, they do at times sell items. that is actually a good thing. Most museums have so many items in their vaults, that they will never see the light of day, nor ever make it to public display. Generally the items that are sold go to serious collectors, that care for them much better than is possible in the individual museums. Most do not understand the mass of items most museums hold in storage. A quarter million or more is not at all unusual. Many things are bequeathed in wills, that end up there. Believe it or not, just because your great grandmother Sadie's dutch oven crossed the plains in a covered wagon doesn't make it rare. It ends up stacked up with another 1500 of the same kind of dutch oven.
Others use a museum for a dumping ground. One example was an attempt by a mining company to donate three miles of chain to the state museum in North Dakota. Now, three miles of chain is impressive all on it's own. the kicker was, each link was FOUR FEET LONG, and in corresponding diameter. Hence, the problem with donations.
So, don't fret if a donation ends up sold to a private collector. It has gone to a better place, helped a generally underfunded museum keep the lights on, and pay the director a pittance of a salary. Museum work is a labor of love, there is very little monetary gain anywhere.

[LIMPINGJ]

waksupi thanks for the insight into the amounts held waiting for it's chance to go on display. I always thought the storerooms would be more interesting than the main display areas. What I would really like to know is what you would pull and what pulled it with the chain you described?

[GCBurner]

The simple, unengraved and un-marked lock and plain sideplate, with the heavy-duty hammer, make it look like a French or Dutch trade musket that got cut down at some point. What is the bore diameter?

[retread]

The simple, unengraved and un-marked lock and plain sideplate, with the heavy-duty hammer, make it look like a French or Dutch trade musket that got cut down at some point. What is the bore diameter?

I have not miked it yet but with a tape it measures about 15/32. Also on closer inspection of the barrel I would say it is not cut down. The barrel has a definite taper, that if continued for any length would thin the barrel wall to nothing. If ir was cut down someone went to a lot of trouble to taper the outside of the barrel to make it as sleek as it is.

[retread]

Waksupi,

Thanks for enlightening me as to Museum and some of the inner workings. I have heard of museums that have articles in storage that will rarely, if ever, see the light of day. I too would rather see them sold so at least someone can enjoy, appreciate and preserve them.

[GoodOlBoy]

it's a dang neat piece, and would make for a FINE addition to a buckskinner's rig!

Congrats!

Richard

[waksupi]

waksupi thanks for the insight into the amounts held waiting for it's chance to go on display. I always thought the storerooms would be more interesting than the main display areas. What I would really like to know is what you would pull and what pulled it with the chain you described?

I have no idea what the chain was being used for, but I would suspect underground coal mining in that area.
And yes, the vaults are generally much more interesting than the displayed items, depending on your interests. The displays reflect the desires of the board of directors, who are generally some chamber of commerce types who know nothing about museum artifacts, they are just looking for a way to drag tourists to their business establishments, while getting brownie points for being on a board of some sort. I had one museum curator in a rural state tell me if it was entirely up to the BOD there, the entire display areas would most likely be John Deere equipment.

[Grump]

I'll have to travel to look at my Dad's book collection, but I recall seeing pretty much that style of pistol in a late 1950s paperback about antique guns (that was the whole title, IIRC). Built as a pistol. Seems like it was pre-US revolutionary period, but a few decades into the flintlock era.

[retread]

I'll have to travel to look at my Dad's book collection, but I recall seeing pretty much that style of pistol in a late 1950s paperback about antique guns (that was the whole title, IIRC). Built as a pistol. Seems like it was pre-US revolutionary period, but a few decades into the flintlock era.

Sure would like to see that!

[mazo kid]

Well hey, I would have taken that pistol too! Neat old gun, even if the lock screws are not original.