problems loading HPs and RF.

[jkcerda]

can't figure this one out.

far left is set at the correct height AND it does fit into the case gauge, problem? I had to set the depth first & then get the crimp so it would feed.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p480x480/10570364_1012115708831794_750857943215174737_n.jpg ?oh=65b541dc65e03ad08b94dc6d6a24e97e&oe=55B44C99

THE rest of the rounds are getting the depth AND the crimp at the same time, can't do it, as you can see the edge of the HP starts flattening out as shown by the pen.

made a bunch of adjustments up & down, the brass does fit in the case gauge prior to me making it go around the turret. suggestions/ideas? had the very same issue with round/flat boolits, my SWC's have no issue whatsoever, just the HP's and the RF's.
seating depth on the HP's is 1.18"

[BK7saum]

It seems that crimping is stopping the bullet from being seated deeply enough. With HP and RF's,the round ogive is contacting the lease/rifling and not chambering. With SWC there is no rounded ogive, so it doesn't develop the problem.

A seating stem that better matches your bullet profile will help. Of course, the real fix is seating and crimping in two steps. I'm guessing these have no crimp groove because they are for a taper crimp semiauto.

[jkcerda]

It seems that crimping is stopping the bullet from being seated deeply enough. With HP and RF's,the round ogive is contacting the lease/rifling and not chambering. With SWC there is no rounded ogive, so it doesn't develop the problem.

A seating stem that better matches your bullet profile will help. Of course, the real fix is seating and crimping in two steps. I'm guessing these have no crimp groove because they are for a taper crimp semiauto.
correct, when I don't crimp enough the boolit gets stuck at the start/mid way of the case gauge. if I seat them first then I AM able to crimp them on a separate operation. but I would like to seat/crimp in one go VS 2, I already took up all the stations on my RCBS pro 2000.

[tazman]

I found I needed to seat and crimp in 2 steps to get consistent perfect feeding on my semi auto rounds. When I tried to seat and crimp in one step, I had the same problems you did part of the time.
When you are doing it all in one station, that last few thousandths of seating movement is expanding/flattening the nose of your boolit and making it so it will not go all the way into the gauge/barrel.
The crimp is gripping the boolit tightly enough to require enough pressure on the boolit nose to distort the boolit when seating that last bit.

[jkcerda]

I found I needed to seat and crimp in 2 steps to get consistent perfect feeding on my semi auto rounds. When I tried to seat and crimp in one step, I had the same problems you did part of the time.
When you are doing it all in one station, that last few thousandths of seating movement is expanding/flattening the nose of your boolit and making it so it will not go all the way into the gauge/barrel.
The crimp is gripping the boolit tightly enough to require enough pressure on the boolit nose to distort the boolit when seating that last bit.
yes, that is what appears to be happening.
boolit in question
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10516698_1012152718828093_1303015011885532215_n.jp g?oh=36c040099274cc64abb4bb96ee14016d&oe=55A70343&__gda__=1437007740_d9a0c63b99ca476ea370559aa1ae749 f

kind of sucks, I could seat in the station I currently use the bullet feeder on & then crimp, or I could try & find another way to feed & seat in the same station.

my set up
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/s261x260/11091144_1012154435494588_6151654952582532331_n.jp g?oh=2de5688189b14391ba9283f167c0a540&oe=55A9ED03&__gda__=1433965350_4dc8c051de311731de4749a11c2745f a
1 decap/size
2 expand
3 powder
4 bullet deed
5 seat/crimp

[Geezer in NH]

2 step Seat then crimp I agree will solve the problem

[texassako]

It looks like you could use a powder through expander in your set up to free up a spot for separate seating and crimping.

[jkcerda]

It looks like you could use a powder through expander in your set up to free up a spot for separate seating and crimping.
looking into it.

wondering if the Hornady will work on my RCBS
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/280690/hornady-quick-change-powder-die-powder-through-expander-452-diameter?cm_vc=ProductFinding

EDIT,seems RCBS does make one
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/152982/rcbs-case-activated-linkage-kit-pistol-powder-expander-45-acp?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[tazman]

I use a Lee Classic cast turret press that has four holes.
1. resize/decap
2. expand/powder drop The Lee powder through expander allows for this.
3. seat
4. crimp
Other than changing dies sets, I don't know what to suggest. You could always get a single stage press and do the crimp on it.

You posted while I was typing.
If you get the Hornady, you may need the Hornady powder measure to go with it. Not sure how it is configured.
With the RCBS unit, it sounds like you would be good to go.

[bangerjim]

Keep on fiddlin'! Hate to say it, but that is what I did for several months trying to get several 45 slugs to work in a 1911 45ACP.

Bet if you did a survey of this site, the 45 ACP, albeit a very popular (don't know why) caliber cart, causes the MOST trouble and has the MOST "cannot load/cycle/etc" threads of any other cart around. It is a complete PITA to my viewpoint. I prefer my 40 S&W. I was able to cast/coat/load/shoot those puppies from the word go in my XD-M. No fiddling with OAL. No messing with crimps. No failures to "plop". Just bang....bang....bang!!!!!!

Keep after that bad boy..........you WILL get there! Good Lord willin'..........................and the creek don't rise.

banger-j

[Love Life]

Is that 45 acp? You are crimping WAY to much if so.

[tazman]

Your boolits are very soft which is why they are crushing during seating. You could harden them and avoid that problem, but then they would not expand on impact as you want.
Looks like seating and crimping in two steps is your only option.
I also agree with Love Life that it looks as though the crimp is excessive. You only need to remove the case mouth flare, not embed the case mouth into the boolit.
Case tension should be enough to hold the boolit in place.

[Love Life]

Look at the crimp!! It would have the same problem with a 40, 9mm, 380 etc. Way over crimped. Crimping and seating in one step is incredibly simple.

ETA: When seating and crimping in one step, it helps if you trim all the brass to uniform length.

[jkcerda]

Is that 45 acp? You are crimping WAY to much if so.


Look at the crimp!! It would have the same problem with a 40, 9mm, 380 etc. Way over crimped. Crimping and seating in one step is incredibly simple.

ETA: When seating and crimping in one step, it helps if you trim all the brass to uniform length.
if I don't crimp that much they never make it into the case gauge, getting the RCBS powder expander, going to seat/crimp separately .

[bangerjim]

Your crimp problem was exactly what I had! I used the Lee Factory Crimp Die and all was solved. Uniform smooth mouth-to-base cases that plop and cycle 100%. I could never get any other crimp to work 100%. No lead is swaged in the case if you set the FCD right. No PC is scraped off by curled edges. The FCD allows consistent loading and performance for me.

Since switching to the FCD (and sizing to 451) my 45 ACP's and I coexist happily! Gone is the over-sized tapestry of profanity that hung like a dark cloud over the Valley of the Sun! Just fun smoooooooooooooooooooth shootin' from here on.

Good luck. You will get there!

banger-j

[Love Life]

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Pistol/45%20Automatic.pdf

[jkcerda]

Your crimp problem was exactly what I had! I used the Lee Factory Crimp Die and all was solved. Uniform smooth mouth-to-base cases that plop and cycle 100%. I could never get any other crimp to work 100%. No lead is swaged in the case if you set the FCD right. No PC is scraped off by curled edges. The FCD allows consistent loading and performance for me.

Since switching to the FCD (and sizing to 451) my 45 ACP's and I coexist happily! Gone is the over-sized tapestry of profanity that hung like a dark cloud over the Valley of the Sun! Just fun smoooooooooooooooooooth shootin' from here on.

Good luck. You will get there!

banger-j
is this it?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/716704/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-45-acp-45-auto-rim?cm_vc=ProductFinding
EDIT

did you have to size them to .451?

[Pb2au]

Jkcerda,
look to the PDF that Love Life posted.
Key in on the dimension of the mouth of the case. That is your reference.
Grab your handy calipers and measure the mouth end of one of your cartridges as is now.
LL is spot on as usual, you are way over crimped. The boolit is getting squeezed and misshapen as a result. When you measure that end of the case, reference back to the PDF and compare.
On my 45, 0.470" my sweet spot.
Also, remember it is by design a taper crimped cartridge.
good luck, keep plugging away at it.

[bangerjim]

is this it?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/716704/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-45-acp-45-auto-rim?cm_vc=ProductFinding
EDIT

did you have to size them to .451?

Yes that is the FCD die for 45ACP. The 451 is for the push-thru SIZING DIE and, for my 1911 barrell, 451 shoots perfectly and eliminated the buldge in the case at the top where the lead is shoved in. At 452, I always had a horrible bulge in the top of the case when the PC'd boolit was seated that interfered with "plopping" and cycling in the match grade barrels. You could see the grease grooves outline in the brass!

Others will bemoan this is a waste of $$ (but not really THAT much!) and a standard crimp will work. For me, this worked!!!!!! Your mielage may vary.

good luck!

[Blood Trail]

can't figure this one out.

far left is set at the correct height AND it does fit into the case gauge, problem? I had to set the depth first & then get the crimp so it would feed.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p480x480/10570364_1012115708831794_750857943215174737_n.jpg ?oh=65b541dc65e03ad08b94dc6d6a24e97e&oe=55B44C99

THE rest of the rounds are getting the depth AND the crimp at the same time, can't do it, as you can see the edge of the HP starts flattening out as shown by the pen.

made a bunch of adjustments up & down, the brass does fit in the case gauge prior to me making it go around the turret. suggestions/ideas? had the very same issue with round/flat boolits, my SWC's have no issue whatsoever, just the HP's and the RF's.
seating depth on the HP's is 1.18"

Brother, you lost? This site is a long way from archery talk. :D

[jkcerda]

Brother, you lost? This site is a long way from archery talk. :D
glad to see a few AT'rs here


Yes that is the FCD die for 45ACP. The 451 is for the push-thru SIZING DIE and, for my 1911 barrell, 451 shoots perfectly and eliminated the buldge in the case at the top where the lead is shoved in. At 452, I always had a horrible bulge in the top of the case when the PC'd boolit was seated that interfered with "plopping" and cycling in the match grade barrels. You could see the grease grooves outline in the brass!

Others will bemoan this is a waste of $$ (but not really THAT much!) and a standard crimp will work. For me, this worked!!!!!! Your mielage may vary.

good luck!

dang, guess I better try the SWC's I already made with my .452 size die, those seem to work fine although I am yet to fire them.

these are the SWC's.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/1957836_1012199685490063_5108327112646386140_o.jpg

crimp measures at .465"

[Pb2au]

The crimp measurement is too less. You need to be around .468"-.470"-ish.
it is hard to tell, but it looks more like a roll crimp than a taper. For sure you are down sizing your boolit.
I didn't catch what die et you are using, but standard 45 acp seat and crimp die is all you need.
keep at it!

[bruce381]

go deeper with boolit where it tappers in abit, then light crimp. Me i seat and tapper crimp seperatly way less problems.

[Pb2au]

Excellent point.
Seating length and crimp go hand in hand. That was my stumbling block many moons ago when I went through my gyrations to get my brain wrapped around 45ACP

[cs86]

Looks to me like the crimp is heavy and the bullet isn't seating far enough in. Almost like you crimped in the lube groove. The case mouth should not role crimp. I'd take a dumby round and play with a few. Seat it a little deeper and just crimp enough to take the flair off. Check against the saami spec that love life gave the link for and see how your measurements compare.

[DougGuy]

The crimp in the photo with the swc's is nowhere near right. That looks like a roll crimp! What are your final boolit ODs when you seat them? Is the case gauge setup for a .451" boolit or a .452"?

I may be off the trail here but what is the chamber measurements in the gauge? As was mentioned earlier, .468" - .470" on a taper crimp will fit and feed in most any .45 ACP barrel provided the boolit in front of the crimp would fit in the throat.

What do the rounds do in the barrel? Do they plunk and fire?

I have guys send me dummy rounds put up with PC boolits with the barrels they send for throat work, they don't have near the problems your PC boolits seem to be having. All these in the photo plunk very easily. None required to be crimped like the rounds in your photo.

Big +1 on crimping in a separate operation! I use a Lee taper crimp die and have zero issues with chambering loaded rounds, and this is in a Kahr barrel that is very tightly dimensioned. Some would call it a "match grade" chamber as it is on the small side.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/DSC03146_zps7d63b486.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/DSC03146_zps7d63b486.jpg.html)

[Foto Joe]

Juan as others have noted your crimps appear to be pretty wicked. I'm going to suggest (with all due respect) that you take your case gauge and use it as a paper weight. Use your gun and barrel as the "real" case gauge. As much as you'd love to seat/crimp in one step I'm afraid that you're going to find that with 45ACP in "your" configuration that just might not be possible.

[jkcerda]

thanks guys, my case gauge I bought used, its from midway.
I will say that the rounds that did not fit in the case gauge did not chamber either. ordered a few items as linked in the other page, a .451 sizing die, a powder through expander & the Lee factory crimp die.

[Love Life]

This is what a properly crimped 45 ACP looks like:

135099135100135101


crimping as much as you are is causing the case mouth to turn in before the bullet is seated all the way. As the case mouth turns in, it is peeling the sides of your bullet and pushing up a ring of coating/lead which is going to effect going into the gage and the chamber. Turning in the mouth that much can also cause bulging which can also lead to the issues you are having. When setting up your die, you have to ensure the bullet is finished seating before the crimp begins to be applied. Seat a tad deeper, lessen your crimp, and I bet the problems go away. The 45 acp is an extremely easy cartridge to load for.

[jkcerda]

This is what a properly crimped 45 ACP looks like:

135099135100135101


crimping as much as you are is causing the case mouth to turn in before the bullet is seated all the way. As the case mouth turns in, it is peeling the sides of your bullet and pushing up a ring of coating/lead which is going to effect going into the gage and the chamber. Turning in the mouth that much can also cause bulging which can also lead to the issues you are having. When setting up your die, you have to ensure the bullet is finished seating before the crimp begins to be applied. Seat a tad deeper, lessen your crimp, and I bet the problems go away. The 45 acp is an extremely easy cartridge to load for.
I need to crimp that much in order for the boolit to sit in the gauge. could it be I am expanding too much at the start & that is also creating issues?

[Love Life]

What diameter are your bullets and what is the outside diameter of a loaded round? Is your gauge in spec?

The flare should just be ironed out. I would look at the SAAMI spec of the outside diameter of a loaded round and compare it to the outside diameter of your loaded rds.

[jkcerda]

1.What diameter are your bullets and 2.what is the outside diameter of a loaded round? 3 Is your gauge in spec?

The flare should just be ironed out. I would look at the SAAMI spec of the outside diameter of a loaded round and compare it to the outside diameter of your loaded rds.

1. .452
2 if I seat first & then crimp .466
3. guess I should have bought it new. I can't tell.

here are my extreme 230 GR RN , those measure .472
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11010629_1014022685307763_1881902512391217902_n.jp g?oh=033ebb88ccd5958f9334a9c049626b1f&oe=55AD0E6D&__gda__=1437546578_97fc760bf73d81c339dddf7cc44aca0 d

no problem with those, only my cast.

[fredj338]

I won't use the LFCD, but your choice. With LHP, seating & crimping in separate steps will give better results. You are offering seating resistance by trying to crimp at the same time. IMO, 0.466" is waaay to tight. Pull a bullet after crimping & measure it. You will have reduced the base if crimping that tight. Not good for accuracy or leading with plain lead bullets. Your crimp shown is waaay too much.
Regardless of bullet type, most guns will run fine on a bullet crimped 0.471". When gaging, make sure the base isn't hanging up. Could have to do with your sizing die not being adjusted right or small burrs on the rim.

[bruce381]

As I said shorten OAL and back of crimp
best is to seat in 1 step THEN taper crimp
something like OAL 1.240 crimp mouth to .470-.472 works well for me

[bangerjim]

Funny....this.

We never have this conversation on any other cart than the PITA 45 ACP.

banger-j