Received some Vectan powders, first impressions

[texassako]

I received my Vectan by Nobel Sport Ba10, Ba9, and A0 pistol powders today and figured a bit of info for the forum might be in order. First off, if you ordered some check the caps. Two of my bottles' caps did not lock onto their bottles(kind of like a big drink bottle cap). They were essentially unsealed since you could unscrew the cap without breaking the safety seal/tamper ring and there is no other glued on seal under there like I am used to seeing. I would rather use up the least sealed bottles first.

The fastest I received is Ba10. I found the loads for .38/357 to be almost the same as the Clays loads I have been using. Maybe it could be a replacement for the newly discontinued Clays? It is a pinkish extruded powder that almost looks like a ball powder with a few larger pieces tossed in. Meters smoothly like a small grain ball powder as well.

Next in speed for me is Ba9. The listed .38/357 loads I found were similar to what I use with Unique. It is a dark grey extruded powder that looks like a grey version of Ba10. It meters as well as Ba10, and a whole lot better than Unique.

Last up is A0. There is very little info out there on this one, and the little bit there is on the .38 Spl or .357 can vary from real close to Ba 9 loads for the same speed at max to a grain or two more with greater speeds before max pressures. There also may have been a change in the past with the greenish grey being the current powder and grey being a slower older formulation, and that may explain the difference in loads. It is a big greenish grey flake that meters with a distinct crunch in my rotor style pistol measures. Hopefully one of my other measures will not cut grains. This one probably has the biggest chance of being a dud.

I have some test loads ready to compare side by side in my 6" Security Six with Clays, BE, and Unique using the 35891 wadcutter in .38 Special and a commercial cast 158 gr SWC in .357. Should be able to hit the range long enough to fire the test rounds across the chronograph in a few days.

[Klaus]

Hello Texassako,

far away from Texas i do the same like you with the French Stuff

First trial with .45 ACP loads are very successful

200 grs Lee SWC and 3.7 grs of BA 10 are a accurate and very clean Targetload
44-40 Win. with 200 grs. and BA 9 is outstanding at this time also for my .38 Masterpice M 14
.357 Lyman 160 RN 358311
Successful was in my Carl Gustaf
6,5 x 55 SE

10.8 grs BA 9 with Lyman 140 grs Bullet GC

Turk. Mauser

8x57 IS

215 grs NOE Bullet with 12.8 grs BA

Pics furter experinces will follow
beeing curious about your results

regards Klaus from Germany

[texassako]

Thanks for the info Klaus, especially the rifle loads. Your rifle loads are very similar to the Unique loads a lot of people would use in those cartridges. Nobel did not respond when I emailed them about cast bullets and using Ba9 and A0 a week ago. They only list a couple of loads while broadly stating both are suitable for cast bullets in rifles.

[Klaus]

Thanks for the info Klaus, especially the rifle loads. Your rifle loads are very similar to the Unique loads a lot of people would use in those cartridges. Nobel did not respond when I emailed them about cast bullets and using Ba9 and A0 a week ago. They only list a couple of loads while broadly stating both are suitable for cast bullets in rifles.

no problem

i have searched here at this forum for good loads and bullets and found a lot of info
Due to the fact that US Powders are very rare at this time here in Germany i change over to Chezch Powders and the French Powders
Lovex / Accurate are cheap and good choice but the Vectan Powders are a lot cleaner and it costs 4 Euros more as the Lovex per 500 gramms
I was on the first trials with this Brands and like to report results next time

have a good day
Klaus

[texassako]

Ran several loads across the Magnetospeed today using my Security Six with a 6" barrel. I tried to get test loads of Vectan that would be close to some standard loads I use of Bullseye and Clays. Initial shooting impression is that Ba10 shoots as well or better than any fast powder with the wadcutter or plinking with a 158 gr SWC, Ba9 appears slower than I thought it was, and A0 is an excellent powder for .357 Magnum if you are not looking for absolute top end speed. First up is .38 Special mixed brass using a 35891 wadcutter and Fiocchi primers.
2.7 gr of Bullseye
Avg 635
SD 18
ES 50
Shot 1 608
Shot 2 643
Shot 3 636
Shot 4 658
Shot 5 632

2.3 gr of Clays
Avg 660
SD 29
ES 71
Shot 1 645
Shot 2 686
Shot 3 690
Shot 4 664
Shot 5 619

2.3 gr of Ba10
Avg 611
SD 25
ES 65
Shot 1 599
Shot 2 640
Shot 3 629
Shot 4 615
Shot 5 575

3.4 gr of Ba9
Avg 527
SD 27
ES 72
Shot 1 501
Shot 2 573
Shot 3 518
Shot 4 528
Shot 5 518

3.5 gr of A0
Avg 625
SD 37
ES 77
Shot 1 586
Shot 2 641
Shot 3 662
Shot 4 585
Shot 5 654

[texassako]

Next up is the .357 Magnum using a commercial cast 158 gr BB SWC and a Fiocchi SP primer unless noted otherwise. I used fast powders because the Vectan powders I have are fairly fast and I already had the BE and Clays loaded. A0 definitely runs cleaner and shoots better at higher pressures, and was the best load of the day with the top 2 shooting 1" groups offhand at 10 yards.

4.9 gr of Bullseye w/ Win SP mag primer
Avg 1034
SD 27
ES 71
Shot 1 986
Shot 2 1057
Shot 3 1047
Shot 4 1041
Shot 5 1039

4.5 gr of Clays
Avg 984
SD 18
ES 45
Shot 1 955
Shot 2 1000
Shot 3 997
Shot 4 980
Shot 5 990

4.5 gr of Ba10
Avg 959
SD 9
ES 26
Shot 1 962
Shot 2 944
Shot 3 970
Shot 4 963
Shot 5 958

5.6 gr of Ba9
Avg 910
SD 22
ES 51
Shot 1 886
Shot 2 931
Shot 3 908
Shot 4 892
Shot 5 937

6.6 gr of A0------7.1 gr of A0 --7.7 gr of A0--8.2 gr of AO
Avg 1139--------1207----------1282----------1322
SD 58-------------51-------------41------------13
ES 158------------123------------97------------30
Shot 1 1043------1115----------1209----------1311
Shot 2 1165------1226----------1305----------1328
Shot 3 1151------1227----------1305----------1341
Shot 4 1137------1238----------1289----------1319
Shot 5 1201------1230----------1306----------1311

[texassako]

Here is the targets from the 7.7 and 8.2 gr tests of the A0. The flier in the 7.7 gr target was also the first shot 100 fps lower than the others, and not sure what happened there. May be from the commercial cast being kind of junky. These were off hand at 10 yards from a guy with essential tremor and the magnetospeed bayonet hanging off end of the barrel. An accuracy test from a rest at 25 yards is next for these loads.

135248

[9w1911]

thank you for this, I am really interested in a few of the powders they have like : AO AS BA9 BA10

[Schrag4]

I realize this thread has been dead for a little while, but I thought I'd mention that I picked up a container of Vectan Ba9 on a whim last week, and I plan to try it out. I'll be loading 125gr LRN in 9mm. The official site lists 125 RN-PB at 3.9gr to 4.8gr, with velocities listed as 928fps to 1030fps. Unfortunately, I don't see any mention of OAL. I load this bullet with AA#5, and I've had to seat it a little longer than that recipe calls for due to the bullet design - they're the Lee tumble-variety and they won't feed properly if I seat to 1.050 like Accurate Arms suggests. I'm open to suggestions from anyone else who has tried this powder with 125gr LRN projectiles in 9mm. And of course I'll report back with my own results once I've run some over a chronograph.

FYI, I'm not looking to replace AA#5 due to performance, it's just that you can't buy the stuff anymore. I figured I'd give this powder a shot as a fun experiment, if nothing else.

[texassako]

There is a German powder seller's website with data, I think from an older 2007 vectan manual, that lists a 1.128" oal for a Speer lead rn. It actually starts with a bit higher charge weight. Links to handgun data: http://www.lhs-germany.de/service/ladedaten-download/vectan-fuer-kurzwaffen/ and rifle data: http://www.lhs-germany.de/service/ladedaten-download/vectan-fuer-langwaffen/

[Klaus]

Hi Gent`s

a short update from my side
Last Saturday i was able to shoot my last test load with Carl Gustaf 1916 on 100m supported on a Sandbag
Unfortunately i have no Papertarget of this results because we have updated our Range with electronical devises and i have had no camera on hand to take a photo from the monitor.

My Load:

10,5 grs Vectan BA 9
140 grs Lyman Bullet sized to .264 and lubed with Ben`s Red
Battelsights raised up to 500 m
14 Shoots with an result of 9,6
The first shoot ever with this combination hit directly into the 10 followed by 2 another hits a little low in the 10 circle.
one hit into the 8 the rest are 9 and 10s

below a pic from my further test with D36 / Accurate No5
the same load and bullet like above

136234

this result was taken on 50m same configuration as on 100m

will keep you informed
Klaus

[Schrag4]

I've been going over the load data provided by the manufacturer, and they do indeed provide a "length". I figured it must be barrel length, because 19,15 works out to a litle over 7.5 inches. However, I looked more closely, and it's marked mm, for millimeters, I would guess. That works out to a little over 3/4 of an inch. What does that even mean? How do europeans measure their cartridge lengths?!? The same PDF says "Never exceed the maximum cartridge length shown in the table", so I would assume that this lengh in mm is really cartridge length, although I find it odd that they warn to never go OVER the listed length. I always understood that increasing length decreases pressure, and decreasing length increases pressure. Unless you're talking about squibs, I don't see how making them longer could be dangerous.

I'd love to load up varying charges to try this out, but at this point I have very little confidence in the data provided by the manufacturer.

[jonp]

Stellar accuracy, Klaus. I am interested to see more results as Vectan just became available here and the data on some of the powder is very hard to come by.

I'm having very good luck so far with GM3 in a 38sp.

I did read a thread on AO in a 44Mag and it said the pressure varied wildly and really spiked towards the upper end. Be careful with this powder and pay attention to pressure signs I guess.

[texassako]

I've been going over the load data provided by the manufacturer, and they do indeed provide a "length". I figured it must be barrel length, because 19,15 works out to a litle over 7.5 inches. However, I looked more closely, and it's marked mm, for millimeters, I would guess. That works out to a little over 3/4 of an inch. What does that even mean? How do europeans measure their cartridge lengths?!? The same PDF says "Never exceed the maximum cartridge length shown in the table", so I would assume that this lengh in mm is really cartridge length, although I find it odd that they warn to never go OVER the listed length. I always understood that increasing length decreases pressure, and decreasing length increases pressure. Unless you're talking about squibs, I don't see how making them longer could be dangerous.

I'd love to load up varying charges to try this out, but at this point I have very little confidence in the data provided by the manufacturer.

The link I gave above shows 1.128" for a 125 gr lead RN. The number you are seeing on the Vectan site or guide book is in the section showing pressure and is the CIP test barrel length. Pressure could spike if you went so long as to jam a hard bullet into the rifling.

[Klaus]

Hello JONP,

Vectan Powder is available here in Germany since long time ago but i was using the American Powders like Hodgdon or Alliant for me with good success.
Since it was more difficult to buy American Powder here i change over to Lovex Powder it is manufactured in the Chech Republic and seems to be an equivalent to Accurate Powder.
Vectan Powder burns cleaner as all other Powder except Vihtavouri or Rottweil Powders but this two brands are a lot expensive.
I pay the same for Vectan as for Alliant or Hodgdon at present time.
on this basic situation i will go with Vectan Powder and share my results with all interested Members here at Cast Boolits

Klaus :cbpour:

[Schrag4]

The link I gave above shows 1.128" for a 125 gr lead RN. The number you are seeing on the Vectan site or guide book is in the section showing pressure and is the CIP test barrel length. Pressure could spike if you went so long as to jam a hard bullet into the rifling.

Thanks for the link - I was waiting for it but somehow didn't see that you had posted it. I still think it strange that they would say not to increase length, as we all know that the max for 9mm is 1.169, and that you may have to go shorter if that max won't fit in your magazine or if it hits the rifling (does this ever happen at 1.169?). It's odd to me that they would feel the need to warn about going long but not about going short.

I'll work some up using the length/charges spelled out in the link you provided. My numbers will be out of a barrel less than half the length they tested with. I'll report back when I have results, hopefully this weekend if all goes well.

[Schrag4]

Ok, I looked over a bunch of Vectan charts again today and I finally figured out what the listed length is. It's not barrel length, it's case length. Not cartridge but (empty) case. They don't list it on the header row for the cartridge, they list it on every row. Why? Will they really call for trimming brass for some powder/bullet combinations but not for others? If so, that would be the first I've heard of such a thing, especially for pistol reloading.

On the one hand I feel stupid because the charts clearly say that's the length in mm, but on the other hand, if the header says 9mm Para, or 9x19, why feel the need to list the case length on the individual bullet/powder rows? I'm not the crazy person here, am I?

[Schrag4]

I'm finally getting a chance to work with the Ba9 powder that I bought. The first thing I like to do when working with a new powder is run it through the Lee AutoDisk Pro disks for various volumes to get a feel for what volumes result in what charges, and for how consistently the powder meters. This powder is pretty fine an metered quite well. Here are the numbers I just wrote down:



Volume (cc)
0.34
0.37
0.40
0.43
0.46
0.49
0.53


Weights (gr)
3.2
3.4
3.8
4.0
4.2
4.7
5.1



3.2
3.3
3.6
4.2
4.3
4.7
5.1



3.2
3.3
3.6
4.2
4.3
4.8
5.1



3.1
3.3
3.7
4.1
4.4
4.8
5.1



3.2
3.4
3.6
4.1
4.2
4.8
5.2



I also use the adjustable charge bar for powders that are fine enough for it to work with. I only tried a couple of volume settings, and it seems to work pretty well:



Volume (cc)
0.50
0.60


Weight (gr)
4.2
5.1



4.1
5.0



4.2
5.1



4.1
5.1



4.2
5.2



Just for kicks, I decided to double-charge a case set to 0.50cc on the adjustable charge bar. It came to 8.2gr, and it didn't overflow, but was filled to within 1/16" of the top of the 9mm case. If you were looking into every case as you should be, it would be pretty obvious that there was a double-charge.

All-in-all, I'm pretty pleased with how it meters. Now I'll go load up some test loads! Thanks again, texassako, for the link that included the overall cartridge length. I'll use that data to load up charges at 4.3, 4.5, 4.7, and 4.9gr, at 1.128 OAL (for 125gr LRN 9mm). Probably won't get a chance to test them this weekend, but I will report back when I do.

[jonp]

I know that the GM3 I've been fooling with is a grain powder and meters very well compared to flake.

[Klaus]

Hello and G,day

last Saturday i did another Trial with BA 9 and my bubbarized Turk Mauser

Basicly it was a Gewehr 98 Turkish Contract
I cut the Barrel to 23,5 Inch and crown with a Dremel

A Recknagel Ramp Frontsight and Willams Peep Rear complete the Rifle.
MY Shooting Buddy tuned the Trigger for a 800gr release
the action run smoot and easy

My Load 12,5 grs Vectan BA9
NOE 326471 Bullet
Lube : Bens Red

136776
136777
136778
136779
136780

Fortunately i can use the same point of aim on 50 m and 100m

on 100 i have just no Target Pic because this is an electronical system

Shoot 15 Rounds with an average of 9.7 .





This is the Target about 12 Shoots on 50 m

136781

Rifle rested on a Sandbag for all Shoots

ive been very happy with this Rifle ;-)

next time more updates with Vectan Powder

Klaus

[jonp]

Keep the data and testing coming on the Vectan, Klaus. It's very much appreciated.

[texassako]

Today I found out that A0 and Ba9 are excellent rifle powders for the slow end in 7.62x54r, and it looks like I finally found a replacement for my Unique accuracy load in my M28-76. Even on a breezy, rain soaked day. A word on the odd round counts. My Magnetospeed bayonet was slipping at the beginning and missed a few rounds, plus I use odd 36 count SmartReloader boxes(9x4) for this cartridge. Other pertinent details of the load: NOE 311331 sized .313", COWW w/ a bit of tin alloy, TAC1 lube with and over coat of tumble lube, 3.04" COAL. First 2 A0 chronograph data(post to long otherwise):



Series

1

Shots:

6



Min

1234

Max

1276



Avg

1252

S-D

14



ES

42





Powder

A0

Charge

11.5



Series

Shot

Speed




1

1

1276

ft/sec



1

2

1254

ft/sec



1

3

1234

ft/sec



1

4

1256

ft/sec



1

5

1252

ft/sec



1

6

1241

ft/sec



----

----

----

----



Series

2

Shots:

8



Min

1276

Max

1295



Avg

1285

S-D

6



ES

19





Powder

A0

Charge

12



Series

Shot

Speed




2

1

1295

ft/sec



2

2

1287

ft/sec



2

3

1285

ft/sec



2

4

1279

ft/sec



2

5

1276

ft/sec



2

6

1295

ft/sec



2

7

1288

ft/sec



2

8

1282

ft/sec

[texassako]

Next 2 A0 chronograph data:



Series

3

Shots:

9



Min

1314

Max

1331



Avg

1322

S-D

6



ES

17





Powder

A0

Charge

12.5



Series

Shot

Speed




3

1

1326

ft/sec



3

2

1324

ft/sec



3

3

1329

ft/sec



3

4

1328

ft/sec



3

5

1318

ft/sec



3

6

1318

ft/sec



3

7

1314

ft/sec



3

8

1315

ft/sec



3

9

1331

ft/sec



----

----

----

----



Series

4

Shots:

9



Min

1343

Max

1356



Avg

1351

S-D

4



ES

13





Powder

A0

Charge

13



Series

Shot

Speed




4

1

1355

ft/sec



4

2

1355

ft/sec



4

3

1355

ft/sec



4

4

1353

ft/sec



4

5

1347

ft/sec



4

6

1343

ft/sec



4

7

1353

ft/sec



4

8

1349

ft/sec



4

9

1356

ft/sec

[texassako]

First 2 Ba9 chronograph data and a photo of these did at 100 yards:

137544



Series

5

Shots:

9



Min

1159

Max

1174



Avg

1167

S-D

5



ES

15





Powder

Ba9

Charge

10.5



Series

Shot

Speed




5

1

1159

ft/sec



5

2

1167

ft/sec



5

3

1171

ft/sec



5

4

1159

ft/sec



5

5

1173

ft/sec



5

6

1166

ft/sec



5

7

1166

ft/sec



5

8

1168

ft/sec



5

9

1174

ft/sec



----

----

----

----



Series

6

Shots:

9



Min

1197

Max

1221



Avg

1208

S-D

7



ES

24





Powder

Ba9

Charge

11



Series

Shot

Speed




6

1

1214

ft/sec



6

2

1221

ft/sec



6

3

1197

ft/sec



6

4

1210

ft/sec



6

5

1200

ft/sec



6

6

1215

ft/sec



6

7

1206

ft/sec



6

8

1203

ft/sec



6

9

1212

ft/sec

[texassako]

Final 2 Ba9 chronograph data:



Series

7

Shots:

9



Min

1226

Max

1247



Avg

1238

S-D

7



ES

21





Powder

Ba9

Charge

11.5



Series

Shot

Speed




7

1

1237

ft/sec



7

2

1247

ft/sec



7

3

1242

ft/sec



7

4

1226

ft/sec



7

5

1245

ft/sec



7

6

1242

ft/sec



7

7

1231

ft/sec



7

8

1236

ft/sec



7

9

1244

ft/sec



----

----

----

----



Series

8

Shots:

9



Min

1266

Max

1287



Avg

1277

S-D

7



ES

21





Powder

Ba9

Charge

12



Series

Shot

Speed




8

1

1281

ft/sec



8

2

1279

ft/sec



8

3

1266

ft/sec



8

4

1285

ft/sec



8

5

1285

ft/sec



8

6

1275

ft/sec



8

7

1270

ft/sec



8

8

1269

ft/sec



8

9

1287

ft/sec

[Klaus]

Hi Texassako,

thx for your report.
i was surprised about the relative uniformity of the ft/speed:razz:

First trial with 8,5 grs BA 9 in my 44-40 was failed because the speed was much to fast and the bullet impact are all over the paper
my old load 8,2 grs HS 6 is a tack driver
it looks like BA 9 is much faster as HS 6 so i reduce to 7,5 grs for the next run
report will follow

Klaus

[Schrag4]

Ok, so I FINALLY got a chance to test out the Ba9 with 125gr LRN projectiles that I powder coated. The test gun was a Ruger SR9c, which has a 3.4" barrel. I loaded up 5 rnds each at 4.3gr, 4.5gr, 4.7gr, and 4.9gr. OAL was 1.128", primers were CCI #500, and all brass was once (probably more like many times) fired FC. Averages came out to 854fps, 895fps, 919fps, and 946fps from that short barrel. I wonder how this would perform out of a full-length barrel.

I couldn't see any signs of excess pressure in any of the brass, although it's my understanding that if you see signs then you're already WAY over pressure. I'm content to call this a good powder for medium target loads. I don't think there's quite enough oomph there to safely say it would make 125 PF for IDPA (measured from a max-length barrel, as the rules state). Slide locked back after all 4 strings, although I was resting the gun on a table so I'd want to test function with strong and weak hand only before cranking out a bunch of anything. I'd most likely load at the highest end of the load data, so I don't anticipate I'd have any issues anyway with function.

[texassako]

Thanks for the extra test info on this powder Schrag4.

I used the above 7.62x54r, 311331, Ba9 10.5 gr load today to shoot some military postal match targets. First 5 shot target went into about 1/2", wish the rest did but the rest were all about 1".

[9w1911]

You shootin an M39?

[texassako]

You shootin an M39?

M28-76 with a Kollmorgen 6x in the original military scope mount.

[9w1911]

very nice

[runfiverun]

this is a great thread.

I remember when we used to have threads like this dealing with mil-surp powders of all kinds of speeds.

[Klaus]

short update from my side......
soo fine the Vectan BA9 Powder works in my 8mm Mauser and 6,5x55 SE sooo bad it works in the 44-40 Win.
i load some Rounds from 7,2 grs up to 8,5 grs BA 9 with 200 grs RCBS Cast Bullet and Ben`s Red Lube.
8,5 grs are much to fast and the Bullet impacs are all over the Papertarget but also the loads with less powder are not accurate.
My Shooting Buddy run another trial with his `73 Uberti and the results are bad as mine.

For an evidence we both shoot a further trial with the approved Hodgdon HS6 Load 8,5 grs with exellent results.
i could not explain why the BA 9 failed ??
due to my feeling the BA9 is much faster as the HS6 fast nearly as Unique i think, althought it was shown on the same level as HS 6 in the powder comparing table.
I know that it was a "just about" info

any info about your experiences..

regards Klaus

[jonp]

Great stuff. I just got a chrony and am loading up some 38sp with gm3 for testing. I'll post the results. I have not had time to try out the A0 i bought yet in the 38sp

[Maximumbob54]

This is kind of a jumble of copy and paste from some previous posts I've made:

Bought a 1# bottle of some Nobel Vectan Ba10:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150516_134228531_zpsf65ydvg0.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150516_134228531_zpsf65ydvg0.jpg.html)

Looks like tiny little kitty litter. I assume it will flow well enough. I've found more available online and it costs a heck of a lot less than I paid local. As in about ten bucks a pound less. I wish they wouldn't do that because now I will buy online instead of with them. Mark it up too much and you can keep it because it chases me away.

Obtained some more "Poudre"...

A0:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150526_192659447_zps3uwhwxds.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150526_192659447_zps3uwhwxds.jpg.html)

This stuff looks like green and gray/brown squares. It's rather thick cut too so it doesn't stick together or clump at all. It has some mass to it like it's heavier than it seems like it should be. Take note of the "safety seal" on the lid. Yeah, it's completely intact. It's pretty much pointless. There isn't an actual peal away seal on the opening once the lid is removed. Even better, all and I mean ALL the lids on them were loose. There is a thin foam seal in the lid so I tightened them all down (including the ones I didn't buy) but who know's how much humidity may have gotten to them. <growls>

A1:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150526_192530260_zpsy0g1efm4.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150526_192530260_zpsy0g1efm4.jpg.html)

These are all green square but not quite all the same shade of green. They look to be the same size and thickness as the other one.

The last thing I'm noticing is that they don't go out of their way to label these very well. Now that I have three different flavors I'm going to store them all apart from each other. Especially the A0 and A1 since it would be all too easy to open the wrong bottle and not notice the difference.

Edit:

In retrospect, I don't think nitro cellulose powders absorb moisture. Alliant is supposed to have old powder kept in a jar of water. They occasionally remove some and it burns just fine. I dunno.

[Schrag4]

Maximumbob54, I noticed the same thing with the lid on my container of Ba9. It wasn't on all that tight when I got it, and that portion of the lid that looks like it's supposed to indicate whether or not the container has ever been opened, like you'd see on a gallon of milk, well it just stays on the lid when you remove the lid. Dunno - maybe they buy their lids from another company and their containers don't really work with those lids in that regard. It's probably not worth getting all that worried about, but at the very least it makes me feel that their packaging was an afterthought.

[Klaus]

some times ago

have had found some time for another Test with Vectan BA 10

.45 ACP
Lee 200grs BB SWC
Murom LP Primer
3,7 - 4,0 grs BA 10

25 m 6 o`Clock Hold

Hits at the 9 Circle are with 4.0 grs BA 10

144507

144508

the flyers outside the 9 Circle on Picture 2 depending on me

next test with .38 Specoal will follow next Saturday

Klaus

[GBertolet]

I just received some BA10, and I am quite impressed with it. I got it for use in the 45 ACP, as a replacement for Clays. With a 230 gr cast LRN, 3.6 gr gave me 751 fps in one gun tested, and 737 fps in another. Both make IPSC major power factor.

Shot to shot variation in the several 5 round groups I tested was close to 5 fps. Very consistent. Clean burning as Clays, and measures very well in my Lee adjustable disk powder measure. Accuracy is comparable with Clays in the 1911's tested. I do think Nobel Spot could do a better job of tamper proof sealing of the cans though. Anyone along the way could add to, or remove from these containers and the end purchaser would never know.

[suncoastarmory]

I just received some BA10, and I am quite impressed with it. I got it for use in the 45 ACP, as a replacement for Clays. With a 230 gr cast LRN, 3.6 gr gave me 751 fps in one gun tested, and 737 fps in another. Both make IPSC major power factor.

Shot to shot variation in the several 5 round groups I tested was close to 5 fps. Very consistent. Clean burning as Clays, and measures very well in my Lee adjustable disk powder measure. Accuracy is comparable with Clays in the 1911's tested. I do think Nobel Spot could do a better job of tamper proof sealing of the cans though. Anyone along the way could add to, or remove from these containers and the end purchaser would never know.
Thanks for the report. I am using Clays for 9mm and 45 too. I may just pick up some Nobel Sport. I need to go back and look at the chart but seemed like the had one powder that would work for 9, 40 and 45. Or maybe it was rifle??

[jonp]

Suncoast: they have several including some shotgun powders which im experimenting with. A1, AS, BA 7.5/9/9.5/10. So far GM3 has fit the bill for pistol target loads

[9w1911]

Do any of you guys have an updated burn rate chart for these?
I'm interested in Unique and 800x speeds

[jonp]

How about this

http://www.tiropratico.com/htm/tabelle_comparative_polveri_2011.htm

[9w1911]

That is better than what I found, but what about the BA6.5, 7.5 and 9.5 where do these lay?

[jonp]

Here is a loading chart I've used with Vectan. Seems good but use at your own discretion.

http://previewer.org/?pdfurl=1qeXpurpn6Wih-SUpOGumaunh63Bw6rHiMnVkrm9vbS8jZKMv7-4yLexkNPX0pS4usO0uMW7t5aj2Kqjo5DaiLDgn6KhsIfc3Nngr Jid693sm9XR49vX4Mnc3dPXnNfVo-LQm9Pl3OLU1NHW3J3qy9jhxtrO5s7n3NTc0dXd1crom9XQ1Zig 8Q

I also use this: http://www.vectan.fr/UK/about-us

and for 38sp this which lists some shotgun powders which is what I am playing with. Use the sight for other powders: http://www.armerialsa.it/ricarica%2038%20sp.htm

For the powders you are asking for nothing beats going to the source:

http://issuu.com/grafandsons/docs/vectan_reloading_data?e=1795079/11745149 and http://www.lhs-germany.de/uploads/media/VECTAN_Poudres_and_Passions_Reloading_Data_2014_01 .pdf

[jonp]

BTW: here http://www.lhs-germany.de/en/powder/loading-data-download/

This is a nice sight I've found with loading data for several overseas powders which we don't get over this way much like Lovex

Have fun with Vectan. It's great powder.

[9w1911]

Thanks iit does seem like a great powder
Powdervally has lovex its under the shooters world label

[BallisticExpansion]

Does anyone know what kind of geometrical shape the Vectan AS is? I'm hoping it's similar to the same shape as that BA10 so it will meter well in my 550. Also AS is $6 cheaper per lb on Powder Valley. Not sure why though... My main interest is in finding a fast burn rate powder to shoot in 40sw for USPSA major power factor.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Does anyone know what kind of geometrical shape the Vectan AS is? I'm hoping it's similar to the same shape as that BA10 so it will meter well in my 550. Also AS is $6 cheaper per lb on Powder Valley. Not sure why though... My main interest is in finding a fast burn rate powder to shoot in 40sw for USPSA major power factor.

Vectan AS is a large diamond/square flake, probably a little bigger than 800X. I do like AS quite alot, good bang for the buck, burns clean and pretty economic on the charge weights. I'm running 9mm Minor Open Division and Limited once in a while. Shooting a 120gr. cast/PC'ed TC bullet, 3.9grs IIRC of AS and was meeting minor PF with a little margin from a 5" barrel XDm. By the shape & size of the flakes it looks like it would meter like sewer lids but it metered very consistently from the Dillon measure on my 650 and it meters good in the cheapie little Lee PPM. Those are the two I can vouch for on AS. If you noticed, the Vectan bottles are 1.10lbs and cheaper than almost everything else available here. I have been very happy with all the Vectan powders I have used so far, super value and clean burning stuff. I will keep buying it even with all else available. I have switched to my previous Ramshot Silhouette load for my M&P open gun I just finished till I can work with Vectan for it. The comp on that gun is a gas pig, begging for pretty warm loads.

[LeftyDon]

AS has the same shape as A0 & A1, but is mostly green flakes with pink flakes. I'm on my 3rd bottle of AS using it in 12 gauge shotgun shells.

[BallisticExpansion]

Vectan AS is a large diamond/square flake, probably a little bigger than 800X. I do like AS quite alot, good bang for the buck, burns clean and pretty economic on the charge weights. I'm running 9mm Minor Open Division and Limited once in a while. Shooting a 120gr. cast/PC'ed TC bullet, 3.9grs IIRC of AS and was meeting minor PF with a little margin from a 5" barrel XDm. By the shape & size of the flakes it looks like it would meter like sewer lids but it metered very consistently from the Dillon measure on my 650 and it meters good in the cheapie little Lee PPM. Those are the two I can vouch for on AS. If you noticed, the Vectan bottles are 1.10lbs and cheaper than almost everything else available here. I have been very happy with all the Vectan powders I have used so far, super value and clean burning stuff. I will keep buying it even with all else available. I have switched to my previous Ramshot Silhouette load for my M&P open gun I just finished till I can work with Vectan for it. The comp on that gun is a gas pig, begging for pretty warm loads.


Interesting, I will have to get a few lbs to try from PV on my next order. I'm in the slow process of switching to faster powders. I am getting an 8lb jug of Ramshot Competition. If it feels the same as N320 I will stick with it. I wouldn't mind trying N310 for 40 major because its usually in stock but, I have heard it is sensitive to load with. It's good to have back up powders though for when the demand skyrockets. Last year I was trying to get any pistol powder I could for 40, now I have 14lbs of Hodgdon Longshot I need to sell lol. I will get some AS and BA10 when I place an order from PV. The nice thing about N320 and ram. competition is the charge weights are low. Wish there was some 40 major data for BA10 and AS loaded long out of a STI 2011. thanks for the help.

[LeftyDon]

This is kind of a jumble of copy and paste from some previous posts I've made:

Bought a 1# bottle of some Nobel Vectan Ba10:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150516_134228531_zpsf65ydvg0.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150516_134228531_zpsf65ydvg0.jpg.html)

Looks like tiny little kitty litter. I assume it will flow well enough. I've found more available online and it costs a heck of a lot less than I paid local. As in about ten bucks a pound less. I wish they wouldn't do that because now I will buy online instead of with them. Mark it up too much and you can keep it because it chases me away.

Obtained some more "Poudre"...

A0:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150526_192659447_zps3uwhwxds.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150526_192659447_zps3uwhwxds.jpg.html)

This stuff looks like green and gray/brown squares. It's rather thick cut too so it doesn't stick together or clump at all. It has some mass to it like it's heavier than it seems like it should be. Take note of the "safety seal" on the lid. Yeah, it's completely intact. It's pretty much pointless. There isn't an actual peal away seal on the opening once the lid is removed. Even better, all and I mean ALL the lids on them were loose. There is a thin foam seal in the lid so I tightened them all down (including the ones I didn't buy) but who know's how much humidity may have gotten to them. <growls>

A1:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150526_192530260_zpsy0g1efm4.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20150526_192530260_zpsy0g1efm4.jpg.html)

These are all green square but not quite all the same shade of green. They look to be the same size and thickness as the other one.

The last thing I'm noticing is that they don't go out of their way to label these very well. Now that I have three different flavors I'm going to store them all apart from each other. Especially the A0 and A1 since it would be all too easy to open the wrong bottle and not notice the difference.

Edit:

In retrospect, I don't think nitro cellulose powders absorb moisture. Alliant is supposed to have old powder kept in a jar of water. They occasionally remove some and it burns just fine. I dunno.

Don't forget that the bottles aren't one pound, they are one half kilogram!! That's about 1.1 lbs!! So even better when you work out cost per pound.

[LeftyDon]

Here is a loading chart I've used with Vectan. Seems good but use at your own discretion.



I also use this: http://www.vectan.fr/UK/about-us

(http://www.vectan.fr/UK/about-us)

If you go to the above site and download the catalog pdf file there's list of powders compared to the Vectan powders in speeds on page 4 of the catalog. As per normal, start low and work up when using a new powder. For shotgun users of Vectan powders BPI (Ballistic Products) has many new loads listed for these powders)

[jonp]

If you go to the above site and download the catalog pdf file there's list of powders compared to the Vectan powders in speeds on page 4 of the catalog. As per normal, start low and work up when using a new powder. For shotgun users of Vectan powders BPI (Ballistic Products) has many new loads listed for these powders)
Yes, it is one of the better catalogs I have seen. No need to wonder what the powder looks like, go to the catalog, on the left is a button that says "range of powders". Hit that and the powders with pictures in color of them pops up. Despite the square look of the A1, AS and AO I've found the AS seems to meter out of a lyman 55 ok for me

[sh00ter787]

I wont post links to data as that seems to have been covered fairly well, however I have had a bit of experience of some of these powders.

GM3 - Used it solely for .38spl when I used to shoot comps, excellent with 148gn hbwc 2.8gn for .38cases 3.2 for .357's. It was one of the cheapest fast powders available in the UK and 90% of people in comps were using it. For me it was one of those powders where I wouldn't hesitate to buy if I saw it!

A1 - Half the price of "american" powders in the UK, I treat it like a ever so slighty slower Unique, in other words I use it in almost everything, anywhere from 5.5gn's to 8gn's in .44 and 8.5gns in 7.62x39 runs to about 1500fps out of a 16" saiga. Very cheap plinking! In a shotgun 25gn under 9 00 buck is very managable but apparently its safe up to 32gns... (I like to enjoy my shooting though)

[dave33]

Has anyone tried the Ao in a 9mm round? I came across a bottle this weekend and thought I would take a chance and give it a try. If it doesnt work out at least its spring and I can fertilize the lawn with it.:bigsmyl2:

I know its a slow powder, which is why I got it, plan to shoot 100-125gr boolits through my compensated CZ, minor power factor range. Looking for a lot of gas to work the comp and as accurate as I can get. Now using mostly Autocomp, HS-6, and Accurate #7 but Im always experimenting.

I have seen the load data on page one of this thread from the german website and, as it turns out, there is a little load data on my lee 9mm die sheet so I have some starting points in mind, Im just curious if anyone has used it and how it worked for them.

I welcome any comments. Thanks.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Has anyone tried the Ao in a 9mm round? I came across a bottle this weekend and thought I would take a chance and give it a try. If it doesnt work out at least its spring and I can fertilize the lawn with it.:bigsmyl2:

I know its a slow powder, which is why I got it, plan to shoot 100-125gr boolits through my compensated CZ, minor power factor range. Looking for a lot of gas to work the comp and as accurate as I can get. Now using mostly Autocomp, HS-6, and Accurate #7 but Im always experimenting.

I have seen the load data on page one of this thread from the german website and, as it turns out, there is a little load data on my lee 9mm die sheet so I have some starting points in mind, Im just curious if anyone has used it and how it worked for them.

I welcome any comments. Thanks.

I tested a some A0 hunting for 9mm minor loads for Open Division. I'd have to look at what I had for starting charge weights in my notes, probably the upper end charge per Vectan data. This was with a Rainer 115gr RN launched from a 4.5" XDm with a 5" Storm Lake barrel and Springer comp. It ran the gun fine, but a bit too slow I think, bit dirty burn and some unburned powder left. It wasn't working the comp as hard as I would like. Doing the cardboard test, firing through a IPSC target, muzzle 1" away, quite a bit of unburnt powder impacting the paper. It wasn't blowing out the hole in the cardboard from excessive gas, clean hole. Summation of that load is its too slow at least behind that 115gr. Perhaps the results would be more favorable with the 124gr'ers I use now? Maybe try a magnum primer to jump the in initial pressure up upon ignition? I had several other test loads I fired at that time that showed more promise than the A0 so I left off there.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Interesting, I will have to get a few lbs to try from PV on my next order. I'm in the slow process of switching to faster powders. I am getting an 8lb jug of Ramshot Competition. If it feels the same as N320 I will stick with it. I wouldn't mind trying N310 for 40 major because its usually in stock but, I have heard it is sensitive to load with. It's good to have back up powders though for when the demand skyrockets. Last year I was trying to get any pistol powder I could for 40, now I have 14lbs of Hodgdon Longshot I need to sell lol. I will get some AS and BA10 when I place an order from PV. The nice thing about N320 and ram. competition is the charge weights are low. Wish there was some 40 major data for BA10 and AS loaded long out of a STI 2011. thanks for the help.

I have some Vhitavouri N310, about the only thing I have messed with it in is 7.62x25. It is some snappy stuff! I don't play with .40 much anymore but I really liked WSF for it. It works in 9mm too but these were just plinker rounds, not USPSA loads. WSF is a great powder for handgun! My local fun shop buddy I buy a lot of components from keeps a full line of Vectan on his shelves now as he really likes it and it is gaining popularity with locals. It's become the brand he recommends to folks looking for powder without anything specific in mind.

[dave33]

I tested a some A0 hunting for 9mm minor loads for Open Division. I'd have to look at what I had for starting charge weights in my notes, probably the upper end charge per Vectan data. This was with a Rainer 115gr RN launched from a 4.5" XDm with a 5" Storm Lake barrel and Springer comp. It ran the gun fine, but a bit too slow I think, bit dirty burn and some unburned powder left. It wasn't working the comp as hard as I would like. Doing the cardboard test, firing through a IPSC target, muzzle 1" away, quite a bit of unburnt powder impacting the paper. It wasn't blowing out the hole in the cardboard from excessive gas, clean hole. Summation of that load is its too slow at least behind that 115gr. Perhaps the results would be more favorable with the 124gr'ers I use now? Maybe try a magnum primer to jump the in initial pressure up upon ignition? I had several other test loads I fired at that time that showed more promise than the A0 so I left off there.

Thanks for the input. Buying this was sort of a shot in the dark spur of the moment thing. Im leaning toward a 122gr powder coated boolit or a 126gr powder coated SWC so I will see.

Anyone else give this stuff a try?

[Mytmousemalibu]

Thanks for the input. Buying this was sort of a shot in the dark spur of the moment thing. Im leaning toward a 122gr powder coated boolit or a 126gr powder coated SWC so I will see.

Anyone else give this stuff a try?

No problem! If I had to take a guess, it will probably respond better to a heavier bullet. See what you can make it do! It would probably do pretty good for rounds like .45acp, .38spl, .45LC, etc.

[LeftyDon]

Per Nobel's powder chart A0 speed matches up with Herco, Longshot, Trueblue or 800X. It's not a powder they suggest for a 9mm.

[jonp]

I wont post links to data as that seems to have been covered fairly well, however I have had a bit of experience of some of these powders.

GM3 - Used it solely for .38spl when I used to shoot comps, excellent with 148gn hbwc 2.8gn for .38cases 3.2 for .357's. It was one of the cheapest fast powders available in the UK and 90% of people in comps were using it. For me it was one of those powders where I wouldn't hesitate to buy if I saw it!

A1 - Half the price of "american" powders in the UK, I treat it like a ever so slighty slower Unique, in other words I use it in almost everything, anywhere from 5.5gn's to 8gn's in .44 and 8.5gns in 7.62x39 runs to about 1500fps out of a 16" saiga. Very cheap plinking! In a shotgun 25gn under 9 00 buck is very managable but apparently its safe up to 32gns... (I like to enjoy my shooting though)

Been running gm3 in 38sp and am very impressed. I dont hesitate to recommend it in this application.