High scope mounts, off set open sights?????

[nekshot]

Could somebody help me understand these high scope mounting practices and now I saw off set open sights!! I vividly remember as a 14 year old kid watching my good buddy getting totally reamed out by the local gun expert how his LITTLE 30-30 with its offset scope was so bad to aim with because the angle of his scope would never let him hit anything except at the distance he sighted it in at. Then he was blasted for even having a 30-30. I was always told keep the scope as close to the bore as possible! Now scopes are so high they are handles to carry the gun with even with sub zero gloves on. Where we told wrong as a kid 50 some years ago?

[303Guy]

Well, I prefer high scope mounts. One of my guns I actually used the scope as a carry handle! To that end I cut away the rail between the scope bases.

I raised the already high scope on my 22lr. I have a long neck and the rifle has a short stock. My Mini-14 had a high scope mount and a short stock too and I found it to be just great. The high scope extends the point blank range somewhat. I used my 22 for silhouette shooting and I cleaned out all the competition with it. I knew just exactly where to place the cross hairs for different ranges for all three of my rifles. Shooting up at steep angles was great too because the distances put the POI right on the POA.

Short stock are great for a high scope mount because I can use a chin to stock weld and stand up straight. That's just me, other's have different anatomies and preferences.

[leebuilder]

I have been looking for a pic from an old home guard manual it showed what happens when you chant a rifle and the effects on POI. Could not find it, arg.
Small offsets are not that bad. You must practice for it when shooting long distances. 30-30 i would not worry, many guys still use them here on there Win 94. The Bren had offset open sights. I picture it as your line of sight is straight like a laser, the boolit is effected by gravity soon as it leaves the barrel, straight but still arcing and loosing elevation heading towards terra firma. never shot any steep angles but there is info on it, steep angles up and down have their own challenges. With an offset scope in short your line of sight being straight, your boolit launched would eventually cross your line of sight and keep going on that angle. If your rifle is sighted in at 100m, your boolit would be offset the same distance your scope is offset at the range of 200m. Simple angles really. In short no need to warrent at reaming.

[nekshot]

I have no problem at all with it, it just goes to show how something from one era of time that was thought to be stupid can become acceptable in another era when folk are more open minded. I feel at home with non adjustable sights as long as I know how to correct for the given yardage, and I find alot of younger shooters feel they must have the sight rectical right on. To each his own, I simply found it amusing when a gun part magazine came advertising off set open sights. Years ago that was see-thru scope mounting if you could bear the snickering from the elite!

[John Boy]

I have been looking for a pic from an old home guard manual it showed what happens when you chant a rifle and the effects on POI. Canting a black powder rifle shooting 1000yds - the rifle will put the POI off by 4 MOA

[flounderman]

The higher you mount the scope, the more dispersion you get when you cant the rifle. I want the scope as low as I can get it without touching the barrel. I shot competition with the iron sights set off far enough I could still shoot right handed and use my left eye. I used an amber aperature front sight and a narrow post bent to the bottom of the aperature so I could see the cant. I tried a scope set a couple of inches off and it didn't work well. The top eject levers with the offset sighted at 100 yards, should be within an inch at 200 and that should be close enough.

[M-Tecs]

It's simple trig. The M1-D sniper rifles all had offset mounts. The training for them was to have the POI off the same as the offset of the mount. Offset mounts have been used a very long time. I don't know when the first one was used but I have seen civil war era offset mounts.

Offset and cant are different animals. Offset is easy to deal with. Canting is harder due to more variables. Trajectory and scope high effects cant POI greatly. The flatter the trajectory the less POI shift due to cant.


Back to the OP's offset 30/30. If the mount is an 1 1/2" offset zeroed at a 100 yards it will on at 100 and of 1 1/2" the opposite direction at 200 yards.

Some things never change. The local range expert was full of it then and he is full of it today.

[leebuilder]

Plus 1 on all the above.
Got to practice with what you have, know your rifle and ammo. Know its limits and go with it.
I like old school stuff, worked fine for them, good enough for me.
know it alls are every where, not to the mention" peanut gallery".
If you have a good rifle and it shoots for you, it is a good rifle. Proof is on the paper or in the freezer.
be well.