My new bore rifle

[nitro450exp]

Hello the camp.


Came across this for good price.
Figured it was worth playing with.
O/U 12ga 3" 21" barrels.
I will definetly try some home rolled Turbo slugs and RB loads.


Nitro


http://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cherokeeforum.com-vbulletin/2000x1836/80-20140910_124121_c99347e45837b1b441449e9e0dd9680fe1 9263b2.jpg

http://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cherokeeforum.com-vbulletin/2000x1836/80-20140910_124155_57af0e3405213f5ebff5459d4a9644a53e 7f0462.jpg


http://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cherokeeforum.com-vbulletin/2000x1836/80-20140910_124325_9363ffc77c9269abc91be2f540fe71f647 ac2018.jpg

[cpileri]

What is it?

[Cap'n Morgan]

Now that's pretty neat!

I guess the rifling is "homemade", but what make is the gun? Perhaps someone had a barrel obstruction and decided to make the best of it...

[nitro450exp]

Lamber Unifrance

[lancem]

No expert on the fine points of the law but being that it has rifled barrels and is larger than .50 cal, isn't that illegal or at least now a class 3 type of firearm? I'm just wondering I guess more than anything if anyone knows for sure.

[nitro450exp]

It is no different than an Remingtom 870 or Mossberg 500 with rifled barrel
in fact in Some States shotguns are required for deer hunting and must shoot a single projectile
rifled or smooth bore is your choice

Nitro

[lancem]

OK, didn't think about them, never have owned one or even seen one. All good then..

[Nobade]

Yep, 12ga. has a sporting exemption and isn't considered a DD. Neat find BTW, that looks like it'll be a lot of fun! Doesn't look really heavily built though, don't lean on it too hard...

-Nobade

[6pt-sika]

Googled this .

http://www.gunwinner.com/content/lanber-unifrance-12213-rifled-ou-ventrib-email-specials


http://www.cdnnsports.com/unifrance-12-21-3-se-extr-rifl.html#.VRIcOzpFDIU

[6pt-sika]

I guess the rifling is "homemade", ...

Nope it's factory .

[nitro450exp]

100% Factory gun
Just as I bought it
I did pull the plastic butt plate and put on a slip on decelerator pad

I have 9 types of 3" sabot ammo to try

I also have RB and Turbo's slugs to try

And the usual BPI offerings to try

Nitro

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I trust you mean "boar", as an unfortunate picture is forming in my mind.

That is just the sort of gun the French would make. They do a lot of sociable driven shooting where the shot has to be an extremely quick one, as the deer or pig dashes across a narrow lane or ride in dense woodland. Sometimes they use monstrosities like a 7mm. Remington Magnum BAR with an extremely basic ramp sight raised to eye level. But their range is a liability when other people may be about, and there is no time for reflection. This gun should be a far better instrument. You get that second shot as fast as any powerful firearm ever made, and the price is good for something made with good walnut, like trees are made of.

[pipehand]

Nitro, I went to the cdnn site, and it does look like they have a few at a good price. I wonder how well they are regulated, and what the rifling twist is. From your picture, the twist looks slower than the twist in my 870. That could be a good thing for fullbore slugs and roundball. Couldn't find a website for Lanber to look up the specs directly. The description at the cdnn site is pretty sparse. I may have to have my local dealer order me one, as it looks like the closest I'll ever get to a rifled double.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think you are probably right about a slow twist being a good thing, or at least not bad. One of the great discoveries that made ball rifles practical in the early 19th century was that they were trying to use too fast a twist. About a turn in ten feet worked, and fouled less with black powder. I can't see why most modern slugs would need a twist as fast (though I forget the figure) that Hastings used when last I heard. A Hastings barrel I once looked down would have stabilized a bullet heavy enough to make you take up golf.

Regulating is a big question, but remember, this is not a rifle anybody is likely to fire until it gets hot, and expansion alters the points of impact. Possibly the best firearm I own, in terms of build quality, came to me as a Bohemian 14ga muzzle-loading shotgun, with engraving that would make your toes curl up. Then I discovered a single set trigger in the right-hand barrel (in both would have been a liability.) I lined it with .50 Trapdoor Springfield tubes from Track of the Wolf, and although I could only guess at the original chambering, it came up pretty well regulated. You can adjust the regulation with bullets of different weight - not different powder charges. A heavier bullet weight both increases recoil and barrel flexure and increases the bore time after which the bullet gets sent off squint. A heavier powder charge increases the force, but reduces the time before the bullet goes off on its own.

It is a rifled double. Count 'em! Now if it had been a side-by-side...

[pworley1]

Let us know how the range test turns out.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I found this video when googling the gun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N94xlrdTTaE

The guy is testing various slugs in a Unifrance. Some of them shoots quite well, although I think the results could be just as good from a smooth bore.

Unfortunately it's all in French - of which I understand some twenty words. Perhaps Longbow can make something out of it.

[nitro450exp]

CDNN had smooth and rifled versions thought I got one of the last rifled ones.
Looks like 1:24 twist or something similar need to check.
Regulation is a big question
Lanber was Spanish the went out of business and few years ago.
May be regulated with Spanish ammo or Brenneke slugs.

Will let you know when I get some testing done.
Nitro

[nitro450exp]

Thanks good video for reference.

[nitro450exp]

looks they have more in stock
IIRC i paid $389.00

Nitro

[6pt-sika]

As much as I dislike anything to do with France I'd kinda like to have one of these little rifled O/U's !

[6pt-sika]

What yardage was the guy in the vid shooting ? If that was 100 meters or even 50 I could live with the not to great regulation , but if that was 25 meters thats a bit to much off regulation .

[6pt-sika]

I thought these jewels were made in France , but if what I've read is correct they're actually made in Spain . CDNN is selling them for $419 plus shipping for the rifled ones and $399 for the same thing with a smoothbore .

[Ballistics in Scotland]

looks they have more in stock
IIRC i paid $389.00

Nitro

You couldn't go far wrong at that price. It should even make a pretty good gun for shotshells in close cover. It is something of a myth that shot in a rifled barrel produces a doughnut pattern. The pellets near the centerline are describing a very narrow spiral, so centrifugal force is less. The pattern could easily be wide but even, especially since shot-cup wads have reduced the mutilated pellets that used to fly wide.

[6pt-sika]

You couldn't go far wrong at that price. It should even make a pretty good gun for shotshells in close cover. It is something of a myth that shot in a rifled barrel produces a doughnut pattern. The pellets near the centerline are describing a very narrow spiral, so centrifugal force is less. The pattern could easily be wide but even, especially since shot-cup wads have reduced the mutilated pellets that used to fly wide.

I shot some 00 Buck Hevi Shot factory loads in my Savage 210F rifled slug gun by mistake one day . They did not hit the paper at 25 yards ! So if they didn't hit a 24"x24" piece of paper what chance do you think you have of hitting a bird . And I shot 6 or 7 of them so it isn't a one or two shot thing .

[longbow]

While I really like side by's I have to say that I think i could get attached to a rifled over and under... especially at that price.

I'll definitely be interested in posts on slug shooting.

What is the twist? Okay I read back and I guess we are waiting on that. It does look slow though and may well be suitable for 0.735" round ball or a real Kynoch 730 gr. Paradox slug! DROOL!!!!

I'm following this thread and looking up info on that gun.

Nope, no French here Cap'n Morgan. Yeah they forced me to take French in high school but it didn't stick. Our French Canadians don't speak Parisian French anyway.

Longbow

[nitro450exp]

Ok now the bad news.
I have been tranfered to another location within the company.
Assignment 3 to 5 years.
Could not take any toys with me.

Sorry guys cannot provide any photos or measurements

Nitro

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I shot some 00 Buck Hevi Shot factory loads in my Savage 210F rifled slug gun by mistake one day . They did not hit the paper at 25 yards ! So if they didn't hit a 24"x24" piece of paper what chance do you think you have of hitting a bird . And I shot 6 or 7 of them so it isn't a one or two shot thing .

Far be it from me to suggest a facetious explanation. That would be wrong. We are describing differet situations. With OO buck all the pellets would be on the edge of the charge.

[6pt-sika]

Far be it from me to suggest a facetious explanation. That would be wrong. We are describing differet situations. With OO buck all the pellets would be on the edge of the charge.
Thing is we don't know where the edge of those patterns were as they missed a 24x24 piece of paper at 25 yards . I think it's safe to assume birdshot would be almost as bad . A friend tried two turkey loads in his 20 gauge Savage 220 rifled gun and unless in mistaken he told me he got maybe six pellets on paper at 35 yards . Bottom line is , shooting shot in rifled barrels is pretty much an excercise in futility . Now with that being said at some point in my life I wanna get another British double . But I want it either Paradox or fully rifled . Preferably with hammers and an under lever in either 10 or 12 bore .

[Cap'n Morgan]

As a kid I once tried loading my .177 airgun with a tiny load of even tinier #12 shot. At a few yards distance it produced a perfect donut patttern - not a single pellet in the middle!

[longbow]

Certainly not arguing about donut patterns but the old Paradox guns were billed as a "do everything" gun ~ shoot game birds with shot and deer with bullets using the same rifled choke barrel.

Hmmmm, I wonder if the ratchet style rifling is better for shot? Or, if since just rifled choke, that the already speeding shot simply skips over the rifling without picking up much spin?

It would be interesting to have one to test.

Longbow

[DLCTEX]

In my pistol cartridge shot loads I find holes in the center of the pattern result from too hot of a load. Milder loads cure the problem.

[6pt-sika]

Certainly not arguing about donut patterns but the old Paradox guns were billed as a "do everything" gun ~ shoot game birds with shot and deer with bullets using the same rifled choke barrel.

Hmmmm, I wonder if the ratchet style rifling is better for shot? Or, if since just rifled choke, that the already speeding shot simply skips over the rifling without picking up much spin?

It would be interesting to have one to test.

Longbow

I'd be happy to just have one as long as it was tight and made by a decent named maker . Same can be said for a fully rifled 8 , 10 or 12 gauge .

[Cap'n Morgan]

Longbow.
The length of the rifling certainly has a lot to do with the pattern. Back in the day I shot a bunch of rats using .22 shotgun shells in a 4" revolver and it worked great. The same shells in a .22 rifle was useless. No doubt the longer "barrel time" in the rifle inflicted more spin to the shot.

Also the fact that the shot have gained speed before meeting the rifling in a paradox gun (and to some extent in my revolver example) must have some influence as well.

[longbow]

Yup! That reminds me of a time when I used to work on a mushroom farm and the foreman called me out to shoot a rat indoors so I took my .22 rifle and .22 shotshells. I think it took 5 shots to kill that rat! The boss's .22 mag handgun with shotshells was far better... though I think it also used slightly larger shot. In any case the pellets I found from my rifle hardly resembled shot anymore, looked more like grains of sand all angular like. I have to think that the shot tumbled over the rifling and got beat up badly.

[BAGTIC]

More likely the higher velocity resulted in higher rpm which created more centrifugal force.