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jonp
03-23-2015, 08:04 PM
I've been having a bit of trouble in my first attempts at reforming brass. For some reason I never got around to trying to do it until I got a 35 Whelen. The 30-06 would not chamber at all so I got a set of Small Base RCBS 30-06 dies and sized first. I then annealed some brass and ran it into a 8mm Lee Die then into a 35 Whelen Lee Die. The brass now chambers and ejects without sticking but the shoulder is way too low on it. The case mouth is also shiny from resizing and scratched a little. I can trim this out. The 30-06 brass is the same length as the factory 35 Whelen. Should I trim it to length first?

So, what am I doing wrong in this? Should I take the finished brass with the too low shoulder and fire form it with Bullseye, Cream of Wheat and a vasoline plug?

Yodogsandman
03-23-2015, 08:27 PM
I would seat a cast boolit out to jam hard into the lands and fire with 10-12 gr Unique without any filler.

When I resize 30-06 brass to 35 Whelen, I just put some case lube inside the neck of a 30-06 and run it up into the RCBS 35 Whelen F/L sizing die. I've never split a case that way. They're normally 2.460" +/- after trimming to a consistent length.

I did have a problem using .270 Win brass. I split one case before switching over. I just had to run it up in a 30-06 F/L sizer first. Those come out longer, to about 2.475".

nicholst55
03-23-2015, 08:59 PM
I make most of my .35 Whelen brass from either .270 Winchester or .280 Remington. I prefer the .280, because the final product is actually a few thousandths of an inch too long, and I can trim all of them and have consistent square case mouths, and a case that is the same length as factory brass. I use the Redding FL sizing die, which has a tapered expander that opens them up from 7mm/.284 to .358 in one shot. I neck size the .270 brass in a .280 die first, because I have smashed a few case mouths trying to run them into the Redding .35 Whelen FL die.

Charley
03-23-2015, 09:45 PM
Depending on how far you push the case into the 8x57 die, you might be pushing the shoulder back in that step. I've never had a problem using a Lee sizer with the tapered expander and .30/06 brass. Anything more than once fired should be suspect, and might need annealing of the neck ONLY, don't let the heat move down the case, or the shoulder might collapse. Use a good lube, like Imperial, and lightly lube the case mouth before sizing.

EDG
03-23-2015, 09:51 PM
One of the dies that you used set the shoulder back too far. It could have been one of the 30-06 dies. Even your 30-06 rifle chamber might have been a little on the minimum headspace side of the standard.
You need to get a few pieces of fired brass and track down the offending die.
There are some easy ways to fix the shoulder issue. I say easy but I have a lot of tools that you may not have. If you don't have all the measuring gadgets you will have to sneak up on the problem.
I assume you have the rifle to use for a gauge.
If you have a Wilson or Forster case gauge you can check the length of a fired case from your rifle. A fired case will usually be .001 or .002 smaller than the chamber length from the head to the datum circle.
The Hornady case gauge that fits on calipers is even better because it will check most cases instead of just the one or two of the Wilson type gauge.

If you do not have a gauge of any sort you can try this.

1. Trim about .100 off of a few test cases. The reason for the .100 trim is to make sure your test cases clear the crimp shoulder in your seating die. If they do not clear trim them some more until the shoulder of the case is contacting the shoulder of the seating die.The test cases should have been fired in a rifle with a longer chamber. US military 30-06 brass that was fired in a machine gun works really well if it has a longer head to shoulder dimension. If you do not have those cases find some once fired .280 Remington cases. The .280 has a longer shoulder to head dimension. You can also use a set of expanders to open the case necks up to .375. Then you will be able to size the .375 neck down to give a decent fit. All in all I think the .280 cases will work the best but are an added expense just for setting you dies.

2. Trim one of the fired cases from your rifle back .100 and check it in your seating die like it was a gauge. The die should be in your hand not in the press. Take your calipers and measure from the case head down to the end of the seating die. If you do not have calipers you will have to use the Ray Charles method. Without calipers you will have to set your FL Whelen die by cut and try. Start with a fired case that is longer than your chamber. Remove the expander from the FL die and slowly size another .100 short test case. Measure it as you proceed. When it is the same length as your fired case it should chamber.
3. To fine tune this die setting you need real locking lock rings of your Lee .35 Whelen FL die. When you get the right setting you lock the die and take note of the shell holder you are using. You will always have to use that same shell holder. If for some reason you change the shell holder it may change the length of your cases from head to shoulder.
4. To double check the die setting back the die up by turning the OD so it moves about the length of this dash " - ". That is about .001 difference in the case length.
5. To keep track of it use a sharpie pen to mark the die threads or die body next the lock ring. Then mark the top of the press and the lock ring at exactly zero degrees to the front center of your press. You can even mark it exactly on some landmark at the top of the press if you prefer. These marks will give you a visual reference when you adjust the die. Size another test case. It may not chamber. If it chambers keep backing up until you get a case that will not chamber.
6. Once you have a case that will not chamber try sizing it 2 or 3 times with enough lube that the friction is minimized. If it chambers you are very near the right setting. If it still does not chamber move the die back down .001 by a short turn as described in #4. If it still does not chamber try another .001. Eventually it will barely chamber with a drag on the bolt.
If your .35 is a Remington pump you will need about .002-.003 clearance to ensure easy chambering. If your .35 is a bolt gun .000 to .001 will work at the range. For hunting you will need .002 or so.
7. Once you have one case you should size about 20 cases. Check each case immediately after you size it by shambering it in your rifle. You will probably find they do not have the same length. That is because you varied the speed of the sizing or the amount of lube, or the dwell time at the top of the stroke. If you find your cases vary, size each one twice without changing the die setting (this is still using the die without the expander). Check each case as you go until you can chamber each one with some feel if you are using a bolt gun.

8. Once you have the die set just right lock it forever. Be sure to mark the die and the ring and the press so you can verify that the ring and the die and the press stay in the same exact orientation. Then install the expander and try a few real full length cases. They should work just like the shorties.