Issue with Lee Neck sizing Collet die

[JWFilips]

Hi Folks,
Would anyone have an idea what happened here? I was neck sizing .243 Win brass on a Lee Neck sizing collet die and I had two out of 25 cases come out like the photo below. Never has happened before and the other 23 cases came out perfect These dies don't set back the shoulder so I can't imagine what happened. There was no difference in the force applied. Usually using these dies you can feel the neck get sized …so it was not a matter of more force being applied. I have the die set low enough in my press so there isn't any cam over taking place….just find it strange!

134847​

[catskinner]

I have had cases come out of the Lee collet die looking like that. Happened after I had accidentally raised the press ram without a case in the shell holder. What happens is the collet fingers close and do not open again with no case in the die. Disassemble the die and look at the collet fingers. Use a screwdriver to pry the fingers apart and reassemble.

[JWFilips]

Sounds Possible: however if it were jammed, the next case would have been damaged also..correct? However the case Sizing took place uninterrupted The two damaged cases were not consecutive That is why I'm perplexed

[Dan Cash]

Solution is to get a real neck sizing die.

[JWFilips]

I'm starting to wonder since these were shot with fat cast boolits if the two cases in question didn't spring back as much as the others and got hung up on the collet as it moved up the mandril. If the collet caught the edge of the case neck that would be similar to what You: "catshooter"; described in the the "locked collet" scenario

[Doc Highwall]

When I took mine apart there was lots of tool marks on the collet that prevented it from working smoothly, maybe it stuck some not allowing the collet to slide up inside the die body and this caused the shoulder to collapse.

[xvigauge]

I do not care for the Lee collet neck sizing die at all. I have had several of them and I could never get them to size consistently nor did I find them very easy to adjust. I think they are horrible and useless. I Have Redding and Lyman neck sizing dies and they work great and have never created any problems. They are easy to adjust and are consistent. But, some guys use the Lee dies and swear by them. They are just not for me.
xvigauge

[texassako]

Only time I have had cases look like that with the collet dies is when experimenting sizing 7.62x54r in a shorter .308 Win die using the wrong size washer as a spacer. I can't imagine any of the proper caliber cases in the proper die being so stretched as to end up like that, though. I think the collet hung up somehow to early in the sizing, closing on the neck to high up and crushing the body. Your pictures look like they might indicate this as the bottom of the neck looks unsized. I have polished the tool marks off of my collets inside and out and the bushing they act against, and you can check to see if a big neck will stick by disassembling the die and sticking the case in the collet.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I use the Lee neck die exclusively for all my neck sizing tasks. After sizing I have found that the neck ID is spot on and there is ZERO runout in the case neck. So I think the answer of "getting a real neck sizing die" is not the real answer.

As others have suggested I would check to make sure the fingers aren't getting bound up. Try taking it completely apart and cleaning it. I also put a light coat of oil on all contact points where metal rubs on metal.

[wordsmith]

I have had cases come out of the Lee collet die looking like that. Happened after I had accidentally raised the press ram without a case in the shell holder. What happens is the collet fingers close and do not open again with no case in the die. Disassemble the die and look at the collet fingers. Use a screwdriver to pry the fingers apart and reassemble.

This. I have done it a couple of times myself.

[EDG]

It looks like the collet hung up. Your die has a moving part in it. If it does not move the die does not work. Take the die apart and clean it. Make sure the top of the collet is free from tool marks.

These dies work ok for varmit rifles or target rifles. I am not so sure you want to use one if you crank out a lot of ammo with out looking at the die each time. If you are making lots of blasting ammo you might forget the collet die.

I had both 6mm Rem and .243 collet dies. The .243 worked fine. The 6mm did not work so hot. Some 6mm brass has a tapered neck. I would have had to turn all my brass to use that die. As it was I would get collet marks at the base of the neck and no clamping at the case mouth. 6mm Win brass worked ok because it was not tapered. True I could have polished the mandrel undersize but then I would have had to switch mandrels when I switched brass. The collet die is sensitive to the hardness of the brass. As the brass gets harder it springs back more varying the neck's grip on the bullet. At that time I just lost interest in the collet dies. I did not want to turn the necks of all my Remington brass so I switched over to a Wilson neck bushing die. I still have collet dies for the .22 Hornet and 7mm Rem Mag. I need to try them sometime too.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have several Lee collet neck sizer dies. I have seen one that was quite rough with tooling marks, on the inside of the collet, as well as the mandrel. Also, I recommend lubing the area where the collet mates with the the collet sleeve. I use graphite grease

[MT Chambers]

pitch it out and get a proper set of dies, not gimmicks....Redding makes a deluxe die set that includes both a neck sizer and a FL. sizer die. Someone mentioned bullet runout which I don't believe is a concern for you or you wouldn't be using Lee dies. Forster Co-ax press would be best bet if you are worried about runout/concentricity issues.

[Clark]

I am now polishing the Lee collet dies:
a) collet
b) collar
c) mandrel/ decapping pin

This does not make them work any better, it just makes the press handle movement feel smother.
For the last few years, Lee has been making the parts smother, so there is less to do.

I have Lee Collet neck dies in:
223
243
257 Roberts
260
260
270
270
7mmRM
308
300WM
8x57

Not sure why I bought duplicates.

Anyway, to appreciate a Lee Collet Neck Die, don't look at it. It is ugly. A Redding FL "S" die is a nice looking die.
But if brass is sized on the two dies, ammo loaded and concentricity compared, the Redding is ~ 0.0040" and the Lee is ~0.0001".
For years I looked at the dies, rather than doing controlled tests.
I used the Redding ~ 7,000 times before the Lee came off the bench and is now the star.

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/260Leecolletdiecolletandcollarbefor.jpg
before
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/260Leecolletdiecolletandcollarafter.jpg
after polishing

[Motor]

Nice work Clark. As a machinist and some times tool maker its not hard to grasp why a tool that closes in from around something can do a better job then one you are forcing something into.

The collet automatically centers the case within itself.

I get in debates all the time about crimping bullets that don't have anywhere for the brass to be crimped into such as jacketed match bullets without crimp grooves but guys swear that using the collet crimp die improved the accuracy.

I think maybe the collet crimp die inadvertantly some how improved the run out. But hey that's just speculation.

I do know besides the basic rules of good loading the 2 most effective ways to increse accuracy where possible is 1) Neck only sizing and 2) Eliminate runout.

Again nice work.

Motor

[JWFilips]

Clark,
May I ask what kind of compound you are using to polish your dies (& method)?
Jim

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Clark hit the nail right on the head. My Redding sizing dies collect dust because I have done real tests with real gauges to measure concentricity. No speculation here. The Redding comp seater die still gets the nod, though.

I have also polished the parts as Clark did and it makes a big difference on the smooth factor.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I use 600 grit followed by some green jewelers rouge on a Dremel buffing wheel.

[bedbugbilly]

Wow Jim - me thinks you are going to have a problem chambering those!

I have one but have never used it. If it was random, I would look at what others have suggested - that maybe the collets got "hung up" somehow. Maybe a good polishing job would help on them?

[mdi]

Couldn't you feel the resistance when crushing those cases?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

The collet die is set up to where you must apply a certain amount of force for the collets to squeeze the neck against the mandrel. I could see where smashing a piece of brass like the OP did could easily happen, especially if the collet fingers were stuck.

[dudel]

Seems like the collet got stuck. I had to give mine a good cleaning. They were gummed up with whatever Lee lubes them with. The two I have (22 Hornet and .223) will rattle when shook. It's the collet sliding back and forth in the die body (minus the decapping pin). When I got them there was no rattle and the cases were inconsistent. A good cleaning solved that problem.

I suspect we could verify that if the neck is not sized. Does a bullet fit in the neck? If so, I bet the collet was closed, and collapsed the case when it was run up into the die. From what I recall of the instructions, you do want a cam over when using the collet die. The lowering of the ram caused the collet to open (like it should have).

[JWFilips]

Wow Jim - me thinks you are going to have a problem chambering those!


Billy,
Ya Think?
I may need an Ackerly SUPER IMPROVED chamber reamer:shock:

[JWFilips]

Couldn't you feel the resistance when crushing those cases?
No …….that is the funny thing that bugs me! Same amount of pressure & it felt like the collet was just starting to squeeze the neck and all of a sudden pop…the case goes up into the die.

I'm still feeling like the edge of the case neck just caught the collet somewhere on these two.
I'm going to pull it all apart and polish it out tonight. I have done about 100 cases with this die since I got it without an issue but it seems something went wrong with this last batch of 25

[ukrifleman]

I load 16 calibres all with Lee dies without issue.

Many of these calibres have the collet die included and the cardinal rule is, keep them clean, set them up as per the instructions and DON'T raise the ram without a case in situ, as the collet die will lock up closed and crush the following case.

If you do, dismantle the die and release the fingers.

ukrifleman.

[EDG]

You really should try another brand sometime.
Try loading a 7.65X53 Mauser with Lee dies - because you can't unless you modify them.
Try loading a 45-70 with short 300 grain bullets. The bullets tip and you have to right everyone of them. Yes I can make them work but they could make a better die.
The collet neck sizers do not tolerate cases with tapered necks. The cartridge standards drawings allow this but it did not stop Lee from marketing a die that does not function well with tapered neck cases. Polish down the mandrel you say? You still have a tapered neck no matter what size the mandrel. In return you get a tapered neck interior with a Lee collet sizer.
A sizing die with a pull through button will handle tapered brass.



I load 16 calibres all with Lee dies without issue.

Many of these calibres have the collet die included and the cardinal rule is, keep them clean, set them up as per the instructions and DON'T raise the ram without a case in situ, as the collet die will lock up closed and crush the following case.

If you do, dismantle the die and release the fingers.

ukrifleman.

[ukrifleman]

I can't comment on the calibres you are having problems with whilst using Lee dies, as I don't load them. I am sorry you are having problems.

And by the way, I made no mention of `Polishing Mandrels`.

ukrifleman.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Since when did this thread mention anything about tapered necks??? The OP was sizing 243 Winchester.

[EDG]

I am not having any problems with them. That was my experience when the Lee collet sizer first came on the market.
Polishing the mandrel .001 or .002 undersize is the standard cure when the collet does not squeeze the brass in far enough for a good grip on the bullet.


I can't comment on the calibres you are having problems with whilst using Lee dies, as I don't load them. I am sorry you are having problems.

And by the way, I made no mention of `Polishing Mandrels`.

ukrifleman.

[r1kk1]

I am not having any problems with them. That was my experience when the Lee collet sizer first came on the market.
Polishing the mandrel .001 or .002 undersize is the standard cure when the collet does not squeeze the brass in far enough for a good grip on the bullet.

That is what Lee suggest to do. I have only one. I stick to bushing dies and have a universal bushing die from CH4D.

Take care

r1kk1

[EDG]

I use a Redding .308 neck bushing die as my universal neck die.


That is what Lee suggest to do. I have only one. I stick to bushing dies and have a universal bushing die from CH4D.

Take care

r1kk1

[dudel]

That is what Lee suggest to do. I have only one. I stick to bushing dies and have a universal bushing die from CH4D.

Take care

r1kk1

Good idea.

I've noticed that my 22 Hornet and .223 brass that goes through the Lee collet sizer now has a "shell holder" shape stamped into the case head. .223 I don't mind; but the 22 Hornet is hard to find. The whole purpose behind the collet die was to prevent overworking the brass. Now I find the collet dies deface the case head.

[1Shirt]

Good idea Clark!
1 Shirt!

[JWFilips]

Ok Guys:
Here is what I have found out: I pulled the die apart today....I guess mine is the newer style because it is actually is polished ...HOWEVER I did see some galling midway on the collet. I re-polished everything Washed clean & and applied Brownnells "action magic" to all movable surfaces ( Moly Base lube). Already everything is working smoother & Yes there was some crud inside from the 100 pervious cases ( don't know why but there was...cases were clean going in ) So if it is just a matter of pulling it apart every so often and keeping it clean that is ok with me.

BTW those last 23 good Neck sized cases shot some of the best groups I have done so far with cast & my .243 Win Ruger 77V
( I played hooky last night & went to the range instead of polishing my dies! That is why I'm a day late posting the polishing info)